Microsoft had fewer units at launch because they were waiting for AMD specific technology

[DeepEnigma]

They had pictures of the completed APU as far back as late December early January.

How soon we forget.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Nothing much. Bookmakers were angling for an early scuffle between X and V. MS won CES by virtue of V not showing up. Technically Sony took a peek and chickened out at the last moment. Phil and Major Nelson continued their victory lap over twitter, taunting the weakness of Sony, by showing a...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

He’s learning really fast from Todd Howard. I’ll give him that...

 

[Jigsaah]

They made their decision and all this means is that we will have to see how games pan out in 2021. I think if this is true that's the only logical conclusion.

Personally I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference. 120 fps is 120 fps, games will still be dynamic 4k. All that is set to change is just how stable the framerates are and the overall quality of games. That more on the developer than anything else.

So, just wait and see. We have a claim from Phil. Let's see what happens.

 

[Entroyp]

Well... Phil and his clowns were bragging about having a finalized chip back in late 2019. Which one is the lie?

 

[Cherrypepsi]

They had pictures of the completed APU as far back as late December early January.

How soon we forget.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Nothing much. Bookmakers were angling for an early scuffle between X and V. MS won CES by virtue of V not showing up. Technically Sony took a peek and chickened out at the last moment. Phil and Major Nelson continued their victory lap over twitter, taunting the weakness of Sony, by showing a...

www.neogaf.com

it ended up being 360mm² and not 407mm² though

 

[EnergyStar]

I think it's more because they made refrigerators instead.

 

[llien]

Nothing unusual about him being aware when certain RDNA2 feature is finalized.
Less likely, but still possible scenario, is him being able to estimate when Sony has started producing stuff/what they were based on.

Dubious part is him not mentioning what that full RDNA2 feature was, as noting about that should be secret, as far as I understand.

Even stranger would be for a feature that game developers are not aware of but should care about to exist in one console, but not the other.

 

[DeepEnigma]

it ended up being 360mm² and not 407mm² though

The content of that post is irreverent, just showing timelines of completed parts.

 

[TGO]

Are they still waiting?

 

[Elias]

Looks like I was right.

 

[mckmas8808]

Because waiting for final device forced them to finalize SDK later (You can't test it without device obviously).


Not really. We don't know if GDK shipped then had final profiles of XSX (if any) or even was able to build for it (Often early devkits are just PCs with expected target specification. For sure OG XBox was). We know from other hand that first GDK version which allowed for certification of games was released in July (I would consider that first full release).

But that's not how things work. For instance devs on Sony's side didn't have the final PS5 hardware and software intact this summer either. The Smartshift tech was programmable by devs, when the final retail boxes have it working automatically. But in the dev kits, developers had to set a profile to get things to work.

I dont get the controversy here, do we think he is lying about production?

He's leaving out context that the average gamer wouldn't be aware of. So in a sense, Phil is lying knowingly. Not about when the production started, but how producing a console works.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I guess this ends all of the talk. So what we were hearing about the dev kits were true. It's kind of funny that the hardware wasn't finalized until 4-5 months ago.

No different from the 360, where AMD and MS kept working on the tech right the last minute and much like with the 360 MS was behind with number of units to go and where most launch games were being developed on Alpha kits.

 

[kuncol02]

They had pictures of the completed APU as far back as late December early January.

How soon we forget.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Nothing much. Bookmakers were angling for an early scuffle between X and V. MS won CES by virtue of V not showing up. Technically Sony took a peek and chickened out at the last moment. Phil and Major Nelson continued their victory lap over twitter, taunting the weakness of Sony, by showing a...

www.neogaf.com

There is really long way from engineering sample of APU (or even whole device prototype) to mass production. You need to make all test, design final manufacturing process, send your device for certification which takes time, etc.

 

[Riky]

Hopefully waiting will prove to be the correct decision when the RDNA2 features become a staple of next gen development.

 

[longdi]

Only people who buy This article are the people with low technical backgrounds on how tech and prototypes are made. Which I have told u many times u lack that and need to stop focusing on it .

That's how it works and explains the lot.
You are doubting the Head of MGS who has put his words for the record?

Good luck! morgan freeman

 

[R3claimer117]

Some of you are really pathetic in the quest for console wars the idea that the head of Xbox wouldn’t have a build of unfinished hardware in his home for testing while they finalize the hardware is shocking? Why would he lie about that the PS5 isn’t more powerful won’t be nothing can change that I don’t see why Spencer would lie or why people feel so threatened by the fact he’s answering questions he’s asked. The PlayStation 5 is also a great machine if you like those games play there and enjoy the machine why does everything have to be console wars.

 

[splattered]

Ok so what i'm hearing from this is AMD created a small batch of work in progress consoles so that MS could use them for internal testing purposes, but the tech wasn't fully ready for full on mass production until recently. I don't see why that is so hard to believe? The same was probably true for the PS5. Some of the people on this forum i just don't understand.

 

[mckmas8808]

Is anybody else starting to think that maybe MS should have waited until next Spring to release the Xbox Series X|S?

Ok so what i'm hearing from this is AMD created a small batch of work in progress consoles so that MS could use them for internal testing purposes, but the tech wasn't fully ready for full on mass production until recently. I don't see why that is so hard to believe? The same was probably true for the PS5. Some of the people on this forum i just don't understand.

I don't think you understand what those people on this forum are saying.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Not really. We don't know if GDK shipped then had final profiles of XSX (if any) or even was able to build for it (Often early devkits are just PCs with expected target specification. For sure OG XBox was). We know from other hand that first GDK version which allowed for certification of games was released in July (I would consider that first full release).

There is no evidence there were iterations of the HW or anymore shipments of dev kits after the Oct/Nov 2019 rollout Phil mentioned. Likely both Xbox and PS5 had final mass produced kits made much closer to launch but IMO the HW (GPU/CPU/RAM specs) were essentially final in late 2019 and it is the software/APIs etc that improve and get bug fixed over time and for the whole generation.

 

[VincentMatts]

Is anybody else starting to think that maybe MS should have waited until next Spring to release the Xbox Series X|S?

Its sold out. Why wait. The sooner you get it out in the public the sooner you can iron out the experience and bugs.

 

[Entroyp]

Also, maybe we are getting sales figures soon? Sound like another of his trademarked excuses.

 

[Neo_game]

They are pre-damage controlling the launch numbers decimation by SONY!

I agree. I am not sure this a positive news. They have messed up the launch and they know it. This sound more like a damage control.

 

[SLB1904]

 

[geordiemp]

They were waiting specific tech simply means that they couldnt start the manufacturing process. That doesnt mean AMD cant hook Phil up with a few early prototypes.

Taiwan data says XSX chip was done 2H 2019. The rest is people bullshitting.

https://www.pttweb.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1590679194.A.F5B

Taiwanese Aquariuszi:

PS5 did start much earlier, but the final chip revision started H2 2019 and was later than XSX

XSX started the chip verification in H1 2019 and finished in H2 2019.

So all the discussion of XSX being later is not true, Sony chose what they wanted, MS chose what they wanted and each did their own customisation.

I often see a narrative that XSX waited for something blah blah, tools blah blah...whatever.

 

[Alphagear]

Sales yes.

That doesn't explain why the XSX is performing worse than PS5 in overall gaming performance.

Unless the launch consoles don't have RDNA 2.

The excuses again.

 

[Elias]

So secret sauce, eh?

It's not any sort of "secret sauce" they just waited for mesh shaders, sfs, vrs, silicon dedicated to ML to be added to the SOC, as they've stated before. It isn't some great mystery.

 

[Insane Metal]

Can't believe people still fall for the bullshit this guy says.

 

[Drewpee]

But that's not how things work. For instance devs on Sony's side didn't have the final PS5 hardware and software intact this summer either. The Smartshift tech was programmable by devs, when the final retail boxes have it working automatically. But in the dev kits, developers had to set a profile to get things to work.



He's leaving out context that the average gamer wouldn't be aware of. So in a sense, Phil is lying knowingly. Not about when the production started, but how producing a console works.

Gotcha, I guess I'm one of the gamers because it seemed like an innocent enough statement to me lol

Why would he lie about productivity, especially when so many gamers on Neogaf cearly know he is lying?

 

[Dabaus]

Sounds like damage control.

 

[VincentMatts]

Taiwan data says XSX chip was done 2H 2019. The rest is people bullshitting.

https://www.pttweb.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1590679194.A.F5B

Taiwanese Aquariuszi:

PS5 did start much earlier, but the final chip revision started H2 2019 and was later than XSX

XSX started the chip verification in H1 2019 and finished in H2 2019.

So all the discussion of XSX being later is not true, Sony chose what they wanted, MS chose what they wanted and each did their own customisation.

I often see a narrative that XSX waited for something blah blah, tools blah blah...whatever.

That doesnt mean AMD have an endless supply of them. They still have to make them as they run out in order to fullfill worldwide demand. When they had one chip in hand is irrelevant.

 

[kuncol02]

There is no evidence there were iterations of the HW or anymore shipments of dev kits after the Oct/Nov 2019 rollout Phil mentioned. Likely both Xbox and PS5 had final mass produced kits made much closer to launch but IMO the HW (GPU/CPU/RAM specs) were essentially final in late 2019 and it is the software/APIs etc that improve and get bug fixed over time and for the whole generation.

There is no evidence for both.

 

[geordiemp]

That doesnt mean AMD have an endless supply of them. They still have to make them as they run out in order to fullfill worldwide demand. When they had one chip in hand is irrelevant.

Yup they make one chip at a time, thats exactly how it works. I do work in this field lol

Have you heard of a FOUP ? Do you know how many wafer starts and batch sizes for TSMC ? LOL

 

[AJUMP23]

Well phil said he had an XSX not a dev kit in DECEMBER last year

Question is, was he lying then, or is he lying now ? Which is it ?

Chips wwere finalised 2H 2019 for both systems by the way.

For all intensive purposes he did have an Xbox Series X. He wouldn't say "I have been working with a prototype for a year". He would just say I have a series X. If I had a prototype in my house I would just say I have the product not a close representation of the product.

 

[oldergamer]

BS and FUD

Incorrect.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Then the next logical question is what this specific technology is.

MS have been very open with what's inside Series X, so is there even more they haven't revealed?

Spencer talks so much it's hard to know when/if he's being entirely truthful.

 

[FlyyGOD]

And yet phil had one in his house in december 2019

Who is lying ? mmmm

Not honest phil the truth sayer ?

Its funny when bullshitters contradict themselves,.

It could've been an empty prototype of the system design. How do you know if it was fully functional?

 

[AJUMP23]

Yup they make one chip at a time, thats exactly how it works. I do work in this field lol

looks like you post on message boards so if you need to make some chips and increase yields so we can all have our new consoles, please get back on the line.

 

[geordiemp]

It could've been an empty prototype of the system design. How do you know if it was fully functional?

Because the silicon was finished in 2H 2019.

 

[oldergamer]

Here is Austin Evans video from his visit to Redmond in March 2020 showing two GDK's that Phil described as "another console". He likely had one of these in his home!

Test units or early hardware for verification, doesn't mean that what spencer said is not true. Phil has said he had one in his house late last year. Sony would have had early test units too, but just not mass produced.

 

[VincentMatts]

Yup they make one chip at a time, thats exactly how it works. I do work in this field lol

Have you heard of a FOUP ? Do you know how many wafer starts and batch sizes for TSMC ? LOL

You actually believe they started mass market manufacturing in 2019? Youre joking right?

 

[AJUMP23]

Shhh don’t tell him, He wants someone to be mad at.

Hate leads to anger.

 

[geordiemp]

looks like you post on message boards so if you need to make some chips and increase yields, so we can all have our new consoles, please get back on the line.

I spent many years doing semi conductor physics to sweep the floor.

 

[chonga]

It would indeed seem odd to say "it has begun" in December when he took the console home.

If that wasn't one of the first prototypes of a final version, what began exactly? If you are still tweaking and changing and waiting for things at that stage nothing would have begun - it is still in the limbo stage it had been in for years. That stage began long ago.

 

[geordiemp]

You actually believe they started mass market manufacturing in 2019? Youre joking right?

Did you read what I said, silicon was complete. Now read what you typed and think a bit.

 

[FlyyGOD]

Is anybody else starting to think that maybe MS should have waited until next Spring to release the Xbox Series X|S?



I don't think you understand what those people on this forum are saying.

It seems as if Sony should've waiting with all these issues the ps5 is having.

 

[Fake]

Incoming Xbox Series X One X.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

I’m worried about the mental health of some Gaffers in here.

 

[kuncol02]

It seems as if Sony should've waiting with all these issues the ps5 is having.

Probably both should wait for next year.

 

[VincentMatts]

Did you read what I said, silicon was complete. Now read what you typed and think a bit.

Phil himself says it. Period. But yeah, lets all listen to geordie here guys.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There is really long way from engineering sample of APU (or even whole device prototype) to mass production. You need to make all test, design final manufacturing process, send your device for certification which takes time, etc.

This is true. It was still feature complete, even in prototype stage.

Timelines for both companies match up around roughly the same time to silicon completion.