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Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales - Digital Foundry Tech Review - Welcome To The Next Generation

BlueXImpulse

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On PC at Ultra, it does have better raytracing reflections. How should Spider-Man be better?
While in WD, even particle effects are being reflected, Spider-Man has more trade-offs because it needs to hit a certain framerate with less compute power compared to a 3080 for example. On consoles it's different of course, WD L is not well optimized.
Which is obvious and doesn't mean that Spidey isn't impressive.

Do you have gifs or screen grabs?
 

geordiemp

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I can’t even spot the cubemap vs RT. just give us 100% cubemap 60fps option for the love of god.

Its harder in still photos, moving the camera its obvious. But even in that still photo it is incorrect and hardly anything in that window is a proper reflection, so I agree, why bother.
 
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azertydu91

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This shot in particular demonstrates how Insomniac are technical wizards. Look at the 100+ pedestrians and cars in this shot, in 4K with RT on top...it'll take a while before this is topped.

Ratchet looks stunning but hasnt got the density of NPCs like this.
Will it really take a while until someone does better ?
I'm not downplaying it but there's so much coming in 2021 that I think it will be topped quite early in the gen.
For example Ratchet and Clank will have more time to refine its RT, Horizon forbidden West may also uses RT in a great way (Guerila games are really good on a technical level) and with Gran Turismo and God Of War coming I think they will be topped.
 

Bo_Hazem

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There’s a gamersyde video that should have a higher bitrate. Have a look at that.

Man, crazy screenshots they have, I think direct feed from PS5:













INSANE DETAILS!













Mindblowing!



























I've never seen a game this sharp, clean, with mindblowing RT implementation and graphics!

Source:

 

Md Ray

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That's the one. I'm assuming the PS5 does the same thing since Cerny said the CUs are RDNA2 ones and they are using the same RT hardware as the PC cards.

Shame we don't have the white paper yet.
Yeah, without a doubt it's the same thing. They probably internally called those units as "intersection engines" and in the marketing materials it's now renamed as "Ray Accelerators". Kinda like how AMD called Zen 2's large L3 cache as "GameCache".
 
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Shmunter

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I've never seen a game this sharp, clean, with mindblowing RT implementation and graphics!

Source:


DF said in their video that the game despite being in 4k, is using their temporal reconstruction on top. It sounds like it’s resulting in image beyond 4k, maybe equivalent of 8k even?.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Here, this is from the DF video, the original photo demonstrating subsurface scattering on his right ear:



400% zoom!!!



And these are still heavily compressed video stills!

DF said in their video that the game despite being in 4k, is using their temporal reconstruction on top. It sounds like it’s resulting in image beyond 4k, maybe equivalent of 8k even?.

Could explain the above!
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Actually he's always being excluded, and even Kingthrash Kingthrash pointed at him in a good way as I remember. So much shade has been thrown by Alex mostly and Richard secondly. Now they seem to see that Xbox doesn't make enough views for them, so they better keep that message more honest. Alex not getting PS5 also another sign of some kinda warning from Sony.

And yes, some insiders here shared hard documents with the moderations team that MS thrown cash on them.
 

Montauk

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Actually he's always being excluded, and even Kingthrash Kingthrash pointed at him in a good way as I remember. So much shade has been thrown by Alex mostly and Richard secondly. Now they seem to see that Xbox doesn't make enough views for them, so they better keep that message more honest. Alex not getting PS5 also another sign of some kinda warning from Sony.

And yes, some insiders here shared hard documents with the moderations team that MS thrown cash on them.

Do you really not understand how ridiculous you sound?
 
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MastaKiiLA

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Man, crazy screenshots they have, I think direct feed from PS5:













INSANE DETAILS!













Mindblowing!



























I've never seen a game this sharp, clean, with mindblowing RT implementation and graphics!

Source:

I'm so happy for the teams at Insomniac. They get overlooked among Sony studios, due to the graphical powerhouses of Guerilla and Naughty Dog. However, they've produced some very tight games over the years, and are also excellent when it comes to game visuals. They're just not quite there with the other 2. However, this launch window should allow them to really strut their stuff unopposed, with not 1, but 2 visual stunners in Spidey and Ratchet. Given how MM has improved in fidelity since the first screenshots, I have to think that R&C will show noticeable improvements when it finally releases. We already saw the RT implementation improve from the initial reveal to the gameplay walkthrough. Now they'll have learned some tricks while making MM, and should be able to apply that to R&C's finished product. Let them enjoy a nice run before GoW, HFW, and whatever ND is working come out to raise the bar even further. I just hope these games sell like gangbusters, because Insomniac deserves the rewards.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I'm so happy for the teams at Insomniac. They get overlooked among Sony studios, due to the graphical powerhouses of Guerilla and Naughty Dog. However, they've produced some very tight games over the years, and are also excellent when it comes to game visuals. They're just not quite there with the other 2. However, this launch window should allow them to really strut their stuff unopposed, with not 1, but 2 visual stunners in Spidey and Ratchet. Given how MM has improved in fidelity since the first screenshots, I have to think that R&C will show noticeable improvements when it finally releases. We already saw the RT implementation improve from the initial reveal to the gameplay walkthrough. Now they'll have learned some tricks while making MM, and should be able to apply that to R&C's finished product. Let them enjoy a nice run before GoW, HFW, and whatever ND is working come out to raise the bar even further. I just hope these games sell like gangbusters, because Insomniac deserves the rewards.

Having other studios against PS Studios is pretty unfair, actually. Sony Pictures is directly feeding 1st party games with their movie assets and expertise, with a juggernaut known as Imageworks that helps WB/Marvel/Disney in their movies/series as well!

 
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Will it really take a while until someone does better ?
I'm not downplaying it but there's so much coming in 2021 that I think it will be topped quite early in the gen.

I mean considering everything that is going on - it's massively open world, it's 4K, it's got RT and the density of NPCs and objects on the streets (sometimes near 100 npcs + cars moving around), it will be a while before that is topped.

Horizon may look more impressive but the density of objects/characters will be lower in most scenes and there will be less opportunity for heavy use of RT as the environment of that game doesn't lend itself to all that.
 

mancs

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in games , i am a sucker for details , stopping , looking at enemies on floor dead , walls, clouds , windows , trees, sounds , leaves , i won't be swinging , i will be gorping and walking lol.

swinging too , obviously :)
 

azertydu91

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I mean considering everything that is going on - it's massively open world, it's 4K, it's got RT and the density of NPCs and objects on the streets (sometimes near 100 npcs + cars moving around), it will be a while before that is topped.

Horizon may look more impressive but the density of objects/characters will be lower in most scenes and there will be less opportunity for heavy use of RT as the environment of that game doesn't lend itself to all that.
Fair point.
 
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IDappa

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Looks slick as keen to give it a whirl. Only thing I don't like is the suit looks out of place to me for some reason..
 
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You need help.

If you're talking about the insider thing something was indeed sent to an admin here.

Mod of War Mod of War I tagged a mod just in case I'm saying something wrong because I don't want to spread misinformation here. Specifically I remember it being said in the next gen thread.

And yes, some insiders here shared hard documents with the moderations team that MS thrown cash on them.
 
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regawdless

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Do you have gifs or screen grabs?

Trees and geometry are rather detailed in the reflections:



And here you can see the building itself (where the posters are) having very good detailed reflections on a rough surface, which is expensive to render.



Water from fountains for example is also being reflected on the highest settings which you won't see in Spider-Man - whatever that's worth. Again, Spidey looks amazing and the reflections are well done, the trade-offs are very well chosen. WD L also has trade-offs of course, just fewer.
 
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BlueXImpulse

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Trees and geometry are rather detailed in the reflections:



And here you can see the building itself (where the posters are) having very good detailed reflections on a rough surface, which is expensive to render.



Water from fountains for example is also being reflected on the highest settings which you won't see in Spider-Man - whatever that's worth. Again, Spidey looks amazing and the reflections are well done, the trade-offs are very well chosen. WD L also has trade-offs of course, just fewer.

Looks a whole level above what we've seen with the XSX version so far.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Trees and geometry are rather detailed in the reflections:



And here you can see the building itself (where the posters are) having very good detailed reflections on a rough surface, which is expensive to render.



Water from fountains for example is also being reflected on the highest settings which you won't see in Spider-Man - whatever that's worth. Again, Spidey looks amazing and the reflections are well done, the trade-offs are very well chosen. WD L also has trade-offs of course, just fewer.

WD:L has much better RT than Spiderman MM from the DF video. It's readily apparent why. The RT has been taken to the levels of what CGI would do. To evaluate the shaders as-is like in the actual game. No wonder MM has such a large draw distance. It removes the quality of the ray bounce and the geometry for showing crude geometry further out.

From that DF video, the consoles can't really do good RT. This will hamper them the entire generation.
 
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apowhungo

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ps5 miles players: what visual mode are you guys using? once i turned on 60fps mode i dont think i can go back
 

MastaKiiLA

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WD:L has much better RT than Spiderman MM from the DF video. It's readily apparent why. The RT has been taken to the levels of what CGI would do. To evaluate the shaders as-is like in the actual game. No wonder MM has such a large draw distance. It removes the quality of the ray bounce and the geometry for showing crude geometry further out.

From that DF video, the consoles can't really do good RT. This will hamper them the entire generation.
Different priotities. Spiderman, by nature, spends more time at greater heights. They couldn't have a short cutoff and insert cubemaps, or most reflections in skyscrapers would look horrible. They needed to prioritize a longer ray over accuracy of reflections. WD is played largely at street level. Given the different priorities, Spiderman's implementation comes off looking better, because the truth is that you don't spend a large amount of time in either game inspecting reflections for accuracy. They're more for scene filler, to close the realism gap in the total FOV. Cubemaps are more visually distracting due to the nature of real world reflections. Most objects aren't perfect mirrors, so accuracy (resolution) shouldn't be that high of a priority.
 
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geordiemp

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WD:L has much better RT than Spiderman MM from the DF video. It's readily apparent why. The RT has been taken to the levels of what CGI would do. To evaluate the shaders as-is like in the actual game. No wonder MM has such a large draw distance. It removes the quality of the ray bounce and the geometry for showing crude geometry further out.

From that DF video, the consoles can't really do good RT. This will hamper them the entire generation.

We needed a PC is best warrior to come in and let us know how big he is.

Go create a thread on how great Nvidia is and stay there.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Different priotities. Spiderman, by nature, spends more time at greater heights. They couldn't have a short cutoff and insert cubemaps, or most reflections in skyscrapers would look horrible. They needed to prioritize a longer ray over accuracy of reflections. WD is played largely at street level. Given the different priorities, Spiderman's implementation comes off looking better, because the truth is that you don't spend a large amount of time in either game inspecting reflections for accuracy. They're more for scene filler, to close the realism gap in the total FOV. Cubemaps are more visually distracting due to the nature of real world reflections. Most objects aren't perfect mirrors, so accuracy (resolution) shouldn't be that high of a priority.

You should read up more on shaders and how a BRDF works. It's not just about rendering the scene at a higher resolution for the RT. It's about the overall quality of the RT in general. Building's height makes sense for longer draw distances, but that doesn't mean the PS5 has the GPU to render out the quality of the RT in WD:L. WD:L has the better looking reflections because it sticks the most to the raw algorithm used in offline rendering. That is, render it all with several secondary bounces and maintain shader quality. Being able to see skyscrapers in the distance in a reflection but then not seeing leaves on a tree much closer to the reflection doesn't look good. Not being able to render smoke when it should doesn't look good. Not looking at the specular contribution of a shader within the reflection makes it look dull and uninteresting. All of these things contribute to the overall look.
 
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VFXVeteran

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We needed a PC is best warrior to come in and let us know how big he is.

Go create a thread on how great Nvidia is and stay there.

This is not about the PC vs. console. This is about what's the proper technique that gives the best results.

Also, if you guys can claim "best RT implementation" of all the platforms. I have a right to counter that with valid evidence to point that that's not the case. You have a weird way of taking jabs at the Xbox but hate when I come around with hardware that's superior to the PS5 and you demand me go off and be out of your hair. I would imagine that the Xbox guys don't want you around either.
 
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cragarmi

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It was shocking that it was NATIVE 4K! Didn't think PS5 would manage that. Crazy results with insane RT draw distance as well! Imagine how it'll be few years from now when SWWS take full advantage of the Geometry Engine and all the perks inside that magic box?
Yep I think we could see ray traced 4k 60, in Spiderman 2, or a close approximation with MLAA.
 
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Venom Snake

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This is not about the PC vs. console. This is about what's the proper technique that gives the best results.

Also, if you guys can claim "best RT implementation" of all the platforms. I have a right to counter that with valid evidence to point that that's not the case. You have a weird way of taking jabs at the Xbox but hate when I come around with hardware that's superior to the PS5 and you demand me go off and be out of your hair. I would imagine that the Xbox guys don't want you around either.
RT on consoles was a necessary step that had to be taken while maintaining affordability, appropriate for this product group.
I don't think people expressing their views here would not know that there are products at a higher price point with better performance and further developed techniques of same kind. When they say "all platforms" they obviously mean consoles.

Every time new consoles are announced a Pandora's box opens. Lots of shots fired, lots of tension going on, if you want to micromanage this shit on this forum then good luck.
 
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Krappadizzle

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From B3D. Can't wait to get my hands on it.
It looks so good. A good shot with dof can add so much to a photo too. Very impressive what Insomniac is doing on their first outing. They are gonna make a killer sequel for sure.
 
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VFXVeteran

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RT on consoles was a necessary step that had to be taken while maintaining affordability, appropriate for this product group.
I don't think people expressing their views here would not know that there are products at a higher price point with better performance and further developed techniques of same kind. When they say "all platforms" they obviously mean consoles.

Every time new consoles are announced a Pandora's box opens. Lots of shots fired, lots of tension going on, if you want to micromanage this shit on this forum then good luck.

Thanks for the kind words.

I don't know how long you have been on these boards but the PS warriors do have an agenda to try making their platform appear superior to every platform (PC included) by leveraging the 1st party exclusives. This game is an example of that.

I haven't seen ray traced reflections this good anywhere before. How is this possible in real time?

I doubt we will get the same goodness from 3rd party, or not for a while anyway.

Without doubt the best visuals with RT I've seen. Yeh there are other titles with more comprehensive RT implementations, but they dont look as good as this from a general graphics perspective.

Best RT I've ever seen. Stunning




All blatant bias since WD:L reflections look a lot closer to real CG than MM does. And that's a fact that can't be refuted.
 
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