Support NeoGAF

[VFXVeteran]

You'd think PC folk would be somewhat enthused with console RT support at launch considering what it could mean going forward for raytracing on PC games too.

RTX support on PC has been underwhelming and more games with it implemented is welcomed.

PC game design isn't dictated by console implementation. This is and will always be a false and misleading statement. You aren't a game developer so please don't make statements as if they are fact about the game development process.

 

[QuantumZebra]

God I can't wait. Looks fantastic.

 

[VFXVeteran]

DF seems pretty enamored with MM in their video, you wouldn't accuse them of some weird bias, though, right? I think you have a point about some here caring more about 1st party game performance but can't it just be that they're more excited for MM than a new Watch Dogs? To me, in general, WD: Legion is incredibly inconsistent visually, couldn't tell you how well it uses rtx, but I can tell you it routinely doesn't look "next-gen" to me.

Spiderman doesn't look next-gen either. It's the same game as before with the most visual difference being reflections. DF isn't bias because they don't imply that every single PS exclusive is better looking than any other 3rd party game and always will be. That's the attitude on these boards.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Spiderman doesn't look next-gen either. It's the same game as before with the most visual difference being reflections. DF isn't bias because they don't imply that every single PS exclusive is better looking than any other 3rd party game and always will be. That's the attitude on these boards.

You don't really get to tell me what does or doesn't look next-gen, though, do you? Can't I decide that myself? The DF video is literally titled "welcome to the next generation" btw.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You don't really get to tell me what does or doesn't look next-gen, though, do you? Can't I decide that myself? The DF video is literally titled "welcome to the next generation" btw.

What's next gen is extremely subjective. Like I've seen many call Astrobot next gen not because of the visuals but because of the DualSense features.

But I agree with Digital Foundry that Spiderman is a cross gen game with next gen features. I also agree with the sentiment that Demon Souls looks next gen even though it might not have ray tracing. Ratchet and Clank is also next gen to me especially due to how it handles world transitions.

But in the end this is just my opinion and it's ok if others disagree with it. I'm not the magical next gen fairy here and that's ok.

 

[MadchesterManc]

PC game design isn't dictated by console implementation. This is and will always be a false and misleading statement. You aren't a game developer so please don't make statements as if they are fact about the game development process.

What's crawled up your ass and died? I'm not talking about consoles influencing game design, just support in more games. If almost everything is able to support RT then wouldn't it be safe to assume that more games will support it seen as it can be planned for early on. I don't even know what you're so angry about but it's clearly affected your reading comprehension

 

[Grinchy]

Why do people love arguing with VFX so much?

He's always going to downplay anything Sony-related. Just laugh it off or put him on ignore and forget he exists.

 

[VFXVeteran]

What's crawled up your ass and died? I'm not talking about consoles influencing game design, just support in more games. If almost everything is able to support RT then wouldn't it be safe to assume that more games will support it seen as it can be planned for early on. I don't even know what you're so angry about but it's clearly affected your reading comprehension

RT was going to be the 'go to' tech over 2yrs ago when it was announced on the Nvidia boards. It's trajectory right now is completely independent of what the console 1st party exclusives do. 3rd party companies were already putting it to use regardless of whether the next-gen consoles would have built in support for it or not.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Why do people love arguing with VFX so much?

He's always going to downplay anything Sony-related. Just laugh it off or put him on ignore and forget he exists.

And many xbox/pc fans say the same thing about their 3rd party games being downplayed by the Sony fans because those games are available to every platform and not just one. We should all put every Sony exclusive review thread on ignore to filter out the continuous false revelations of new technology suddenly being the new de facto standard despite the tech having come out over 2yrs ago with many many examples of it's use.

It's funny how you consider me 'downplaying' a Sony game when I mention there is nothing special about it both tech-wise and implementation wise. It's like I absolutely have to be on board with it being the greatest thing since sliced bread in order to not have the 'downplay' label attached to my name. So funny..

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't think anyone should be upset with Spiderman's RT support no matter which system you side with. If the weakest premium next gen console can handle RT at this level is actually good news for everyone. The platforms with stronger RT capabilities should be able to achieve that level at a minimum and even push RT further. I don't see how it's bad news for some that games are using RT this early at this quality level. I would be more worried if no console had RT at launch.

 

[sircaw]

And many xbox/pc fans say the same thing about their 3rd party games being downplayed by the Sony fans because those games are available to every platform and not just one. We should all put every Sony exclusive review thread on ignore to filter out the continuous false revelations of new technology suddenly being the new de facto standard despite the tech having come out over 2yrs ago with many many examples of it's use.

It's funny how you consider me 'downplaying' a Sony game when I mention there is nothing special about it both tech-wise and implementation wise. It's like I absolutely have to be on board with it being the greatest thing since sliced bread in order to not have the 'downplay' label attached to my name. So funny..

You do seem to have a stick up your arse when it comes to sony games.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You do seem to have a stick up your arse when it comes to sony games.

Just don't like the extreme bias for Sony exclusives. Never any acknowledgement over games that are clearly better.

 

[sendit]

I am assuming DLSS 2.0. So if you are stating turning OFF DLSS 2.0 and just rendering 4k with Ultra then no - 2080Ti will not hold 30FPS. But that comparison to Spiderman is ridiculous. Control is doing so much more in RT than just reflections.

Surely you know DLSS2.0 isn’t native therefore a 2080 Ti can’t possibly render every PC game at native 4K/30FPS with rays. Also, no one stated the 2080 Ti couldnt execute on that level of ray tracing. Why are you getting so defensive about this?

This is about different use cases of ray tracing and the applicable application. The general consensus is that people are generally
more impressed by what Insomniac is doing with MM over Control.

Open world cities are generally more impressive than tightly closed rooms....

 

[Handy Fake]

VFX has also released a statement after Biden's victory was called.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

Open world cities are generally more impressive than tightly closed rooms....

I agree. I also think that London in Watch Dogs Legion looks much more impressive than New York in Spider Man: MM. Spider Man is a more consistent looking game. What I mean by that is that it feels like a more polished package with great looking characters and animations, compared to Watch Dogs. But when it comes to the city itself and ray traced reflections, Legion looks miles better.

And we're talking about cross-gen games here. Future indeed looks bright.

 

[FireFly]

It's funny how you consider me 'downplaying' a Sony game when I mention there is nothing special about it both tech-wise and implementation wise. It's like I absolutely have to be on board with it being the greatest thing since sliced bread in order to not have the 'downplay' label attached to my name. So funny..

Saying there's nothing special is exactly what downplaying is, since it's essentially saying that nothing it does is noteworthy. A more balanced perspective is taken by DF, who were impressed by the lack of distance cutoff in reflections, regular updating of the BVH structure, high fidelity character and especially hair rendering, and effective LOD management in general. These elements are impressive in the context of an open world game, where last generation we saw large amounts of pop in, cube maps everywhere and variable quality character rendering.

 

[MasterCornholio]

VFX has also released a statement after Biden's victory was called.

But to be honest I really don't care about the elections. Still I'm glad that it's over hopefully people in my shop can start to focus on work again.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Surely you know DLSS2.0 isn’t native therefore a 2080 Ti can’t possibly render every PC game at native 4K/30FPS with rays. Also, no one stated the 2080 Ti couldnt execute on that level of ray tracing. Why are you getting so defensive about this?

Here is what's got me riled up.

Native 4K + RT really surprised me here bearing in mind that a 2080 Ti at launch had to resort to 1080p when RT was enabled.

That sweet console optimization magic.

That is a ridiculous statement. Address all the manner of 'wrong' in those 2 sentences please. It is making an assumption that the PS5 is somehow running RT better than a 2080Ti. Really? And people get in my ass for always bringing up the PC in a PS5 thread. Here's why. The hypocrisy knows no bounds!

 

[mancs]

ray tracing , is NOT a waste.

 

[OsirisBlack]

Just don't like the extreme bias for Sony exclusives. Never any acknowledgement over games that are clearly better.

to be fair Sony’s exclusives are pretty consistent in their quality. Their exclusives are the only reason I got a PS5 and the lack of MS exclusives is the only reason I’m not getting a series X. (I’ll give the free one I get away as usual) To be completely candid my pc is the only reason I have no interest in the series X as I just nab the Xbox games I want on pc. (Ori, gears and the like) Also calling other games clearly better is subjective. I think ghosts of tsushima is the best assassins creed game ever but that is my opinion.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I agree. I also think that London in Watch Dogs Legion looks much more impressive than New York in Spider Man: MM. Spider Man is a more consistent looking game. What I mean by that is that it feels like a more polished package with great looking characters and animations, compared to Watch Dogs. But when it comes to the city itself and ray traced reflections, Legion looks miles better.

And we're talking about cross-gen games here. Future indeed looks bright.

Yup, WDL London looks more realistic and impressive compared to NYC on SM MM. As engines get updated and overhauled, devs will get smarter and perks of PS5 like GE will make more efficient usage of RT and other stuff. Also same goes to the new RTX and AMD's RT. I'm personally shocked that Spiderman MM is native 4K with RT at solid 30fps with insane amount of pedestrians and traffic and RT reflections extending for pretty far ahead compared to WDL that seems to have pedestrians disappearing pretty quickly from the reflections.

Spiderman MM has the edge with models, weather effects, and pedestrian/traffic density.

Let's not forget the PS4 is still holding back PS5 here, and I hope that GOW Ragnarok is PS5 exclusive to take full advantage of the hardware and focus more into further optimization.

Honestly, I'm curious to see WDL on PS5, although 100% it'll not be as good as the next WD that should be much more optimized for next gen consoles and graphics cards.

 

[geordiemp]

Here is what's got me riled up.



That is a ridiculous statement. Address all the manner of 'wrong' in those 2 sentences please. It is making an assumption that the PS5 is somehow running RT better than a 2080Ti. Really? And people get in my ass for always bringing up the PC in a PS5 thread. Here's why. The hypocrisy knows no bounds!

We cant compare the same game, but looking at Legion which is open world city the ps5 locked 30 stands up quite nicely considering Watch dog models, animations and everytyhing else is a bt lacking shall we say

 

[sendit]

Here is what's got me riled up.



That is a ridiculous statement. Address all the manner of 'wrong' in those 2 sentences please. It is making an assumption that the PS5 is somehow running RT better than a 2080Ti. Really? And people get in my ass for always bringing up the PC in a PS5 thread. Here's why. The hypocrisy knows no bounds!

Fans make ridiculous statements on both sides. If you claim to see it more from one side, than there is a clear bias here. Additionally, anyone in the right mind would know neither the PS5 or the XSX are quite at the 2080 Ti's level in any application.

 

[Tripolygon]

Spiderman is truly one of if not the best showcase for raytraced reflection. Simply because the cut off point and draw distance is astonishing.

 

[sendit]

We cant compare the same game, but looking at Legion which is open world city the ps5 locked 30 stands up quite nicely considering Watch dog models, animations and everytyhing else is a bt lacking shall we say

Its hard to compare PC performance with console performance because we don't know what settings the console version is optimized to run at. Looking at that chart, this is probably the PC version running with every setting cranked to ultra.

 

[VFXVeteran]

We cant compare the same game, but looking at Legion which is open world city the ps5 locked 30 stands up quite nicely considering Watch dog models, animations and everytyhing else is a bt lacking shall we say

Legion has 2x the amount of texture detail as Spiderman MM. And just because the NPCs aren't as detailed doesn't make the game inifinitely worse because of it. WDL has so many other elements that are superior to Spiderman MM - like it's texture sizes.

 

[geordiemp]

Legion has 2x the amount of texture detail as Spiderman MM. And just because the NPCs aren't as detailed doesn't make the game inifinitely worse because of it. WDL has so many other elements that are superior to Spiderman MM - like it's texture sizes.

I domt know the level of texture details, neither do you, but Spiderman textures looked better IMO

 

[kyliethicc]

Here is what's got me riled up.



That is a ridiculous statement. Address all the manner of 'wrong' in those 2 sentences please. It is making an assumption that the PS5 is somehow running RT better than a 2080Ti. Really? And people get in my ass for always bringing up the PC in a PS5 thread. Here's why. The hypocrisy knows no bounds!

Calm down no one's gonna take your Nvidia card away from you. PS5 has a beautiful game running in native 4K and solid 30 FPS with ray traced reflections.

We know the PS5 and XSX can run Rainbow Six Siege at 4K 120 FPS. Thats about the same performance as an RTX 2080 / Super. I'm sure the console version is using lower graphical settings, forgive me its not a perfect comparison. But RDNA2 clearly has solid RT capabilities and is a powerful architecture. No the consoles aren't 2080 Ti level, but they are close. And we still don't have proper RX 6000 series cards vs Turing/Ampere card comparisons for RT performance.

But the PS5 is clearly much more powerful than many thought. Maybe, just maybe, Horizon 2 on PS5 will come close to the glorious masterpiece of graphical fidelity that is HZD PC port lol.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Spiderman is truly one of if not the best showcase for raytraced reflection. Simply because the cut off point and draw distance is astonishing.

Without a doubt. Spider-Man: Miles Morales should be the poster child for ray tracing until something better comes along.

 

[Lethal01]

Spiderman MM just does RT like BF5. The regular game is the same as the PS4 iteration. I just installed WD:Legion and it has more detail than Spiderman MM, and it's RT reflections are completely on par with what is being shown here. I'd say aside from subjective opinions that WD:L looks better overall because it has more detail with the higher res textures.

Not talking about the technical aspect at all. I said it's easier for people to appreciate RT when it's used in art they actually like.

The bias in your statement is that NO 3rd party game will ever quality as subjectively looking better than any PS exclusive. T

I never stated this in any way, shape or form.

 

[kyliethicc]

Without a doubt. Spider-Man: Miles Morales should be the poster child for ray tracing until something better comes along.

And to think its just a launch title on a 9 TF RDNA 1.5 console.

PS5 is gonna be so fucking good.

 

[sircaw]

.

Without a doubt. Spider-Man: Miles Morales should be the poster child for ray tracing until something better comes along.

Agreed
i don't even understand how this is even up for discussion, the game's reflections look breath-taking.

It just seems to me that there is a tremendous amount of salt about. It's a real pity people are being so petty about it all.

Some people really got burnt in the past and need to do some soul searching, cos this is beyond sad.

 

[MasterCornholio]

And to think its just a launch title on a 9 TF RDNA 1.5 console.

PS5 is gonna be so fucking good.

Just amazing how easily Sony destroyed the FUD by just showing games.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I domt know the level of texture details, neither do you, but Spiderman textures looked better IMO

No they don't dude. You aren't that blind. You know the difference between 2k vs. 4k. We don't care about the art in the texture. You are intentionally being daft on purpose.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Without a doubt. Spider-Man: Miles Morales should be the poster child for ray tracing until something better comes along.

MM is NOT the poster child for ray-tracing. There is nothing about it's RT reflections that puts it above all the other RT games.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Calm down no one's gonna take your Nvidia card away from you. PS5 has a beautiful game running in native 4K and solid 30 FPS with ray traced reflections.

We know the PS5 and XSX can run Rainbow Six Siege at 4K 120 FPS. Thats about the same performance as an RTX 2080 / Super. I'm sure the console version is using lower graphical settings, forgive me its not a perfect comparison. But RDNA2 clearly has solid RT capabilities and is a powerful architecture. No the consoles aren't 2080 Ti level, but they are close. And we still don't have proper RX 6000 series cards vs Turing/Ampere card comparisons for RT performance.

But the PS5 is clearly much more powerful than many thought. Maybe, just maybe, Horizon 2 on PS5 will come close to the glorious masterpiece of graphical fidelity that is HZD PC port lol.

Just because MM uses RT reflections doesn't indicate in any form that the PS5 is more powerful than many thought. What did people think? That it wouldn't do RT when it was introduced to have it to begin with?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Looks like you need another therapy session with the mods VFXVeteran

 

[Bo_Hazem]

MM is NOT the poster child for ray-tracing. There is nothing about it's RT reflections that puts it above all the other RT games.

 

[geordiemp]

No they don't dude. You aren't that blind. You know the difference between 2k vs. 4k. We don't care about the art in the texture. You are intentionally being daft on purpose.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It looks nice, but very gamey and unrealistic/next gen. But looking at this game, you can't even know it's a game from how immersive and realistic looking it is:

That's the difference between next gen and crossgen (spiderman MM). Sorry.

Spoiler

 

[Knitted Knight]

I don't like to use the word meltdown but.... what's going on here? B+ Team from Sony outdoing everything that's on PC atm? I mean the old talking point of the game being on a corridor - the downplay used for TLOU II (which applies to Control and Battlefield) - no longer applies here. The downplay on lack of dynamism definitely doesn't apply here either - this is one of the most dynamic open world games that exists. I mean you can swing through multiple street blocks in mere seconds and that rendering pipeline will pump all that iron no sweat.

What are we doing here?

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Best RT I've ever seen. Stunning

VFX frothing at the mouth in anger

 

[geordiemp]

It looks nice, but very gamey and unrealistic/next gen. But looking at this game, you can't even know it's a game from how immersive and realistic looking it is:

That's the difference between next gen and crossgen (spiderman MM). Sorry.

Whats that, is it diablo or something isometric type hack and slash ? Its certainly not a looker but I am am not familair with Diablo type games.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Native 4K + RT really surprised me here bearing in mind that a 2080 Ti at launch had to resort to 1080p when RT was enabled.

That sweet console optimization magic.

Bu bu but “console optimisation” doesn’t exist!!!!

 

[Dr Bass]

That gif of Spider-Man climbing down the building looks ridiculous. The reflections going on all around, and the amount of detail. Yeesh.

I see some people saying other stuff looks better, and if so I would just love a video or screen shot. That's all it takes.

 

[sendit]

I don't like to use the word meltdown but.... what's going on here? B+ Team from Sony outdoing everything that's on PC atm? I mean the old talking point of the game being on a corridor - the downplay used for TLOU II (which applies to Control and Battlefield) - no longer applies here. The downplay on lack of dynamism definitely doesn't apply here either - this is one of the most dynamic open world games that exists. I mean you can swing through multiple street blocks in mere seconds and that rendering pipeline will pump all that iron no sweat.

What are we doing here?

Yep. The only crime here is Sony not producing enough PS5 for the masses.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Whats that, is it diablo or something isometric type hack and slash ? Its certainly not a looker but I am am not familair with Diablo type games.

Why am I even wasting my time with a casual like you? What do you even know about next gen? Here, have a taste of this full next gen, mindblowing graphics and animations of Baldur's Gate 3:

Spoiler

 

[Knitted Knight]

 

[MasterCornholio]

It looks nice, but very gamey and unrealistic/next gen. But looking at this game, you can't even know it's a game from how immersive and realistic looking it is:

That's the difference between next gen and crossgen (spiderman MM). Sorry.

Spoiler

I love Larian Studios and their games especially their Divine Divinity franchise but Baldurs Gate 3 doesn't look next gen to me. Still looks nice though and will be getting it.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

MM is NOT the poster child for ray-tracing. There is nothing about it's RT reflections that puts it above all the other RT games.

It's the first raytraced game that will hit the mainstream. It will be the poster child for RT. Sorry!