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Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales - Digital Foundry Tech Review - Welcome To The Next Generation

RasAlGhoul

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Planned on playing this in performance mode. But man fidelity mode is impressive, can’t get myself to go back. its definitely one of those 30fps games that don’t feel like ass.
 
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VFXVeteran

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But we don't give a fuck about you caring for it or not. It is not present in other games.
And you should care by the way, wtf kind of VFX veteran are you to not value animations?


I can care about what I want to care about and you can care about what you want. It's a feature in ONE game and it's done by ND. When the PC ports start rolling through, you'll see it in full force then. Until then, continue to be proud!


Reverse normals? Do you think that GI is achieved by reverse normals?


What does GI have to do with SSS? Is this your way of confusing the argument even further? You are moving the goalpost so much I can't keep up.


Really? What about the soft-body dynamics on characters, with muscle simulations like forming double chins or bending noses, which other game feature those?



And the physics animations? Which game?



Dying Light had an incredible procedural animation system. Zombies moved, walked, climbed, and traversed stairs incredibly realistically.

So.... let's get back to this SSS and GI mumbo-jumbo you are talking about.
 

VFXVeteran

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WD:L on PC looks as shitty as the console versions. It does not come close to SMMM graphics and performance.

No it doesn't. Show a screenshot comparison vs. PC@Ultra. And PC performance is wayy better than PS5 RT settings for MM. Even a 2060S performs faster. 4k/30FPS with RT is performing better? Really?
 
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No it doesn't. Show a screenshot comparison vs. PC@Ultra. And PC performance is wayy better than PS5 RT settings for MM. Even a 2060S performs faster. 4k/30FPS with RT is performing better? Really?
WD:L has last generation materials. The RT even in Digital Foundary Videos on Ultralooks shit and limited distance ( a bit higher than consoles version). There nothing good about that game. It's purely last gen. It's actually not even in the level of original Spider-Man on PS4 pro ( minus RT).
 

Vick

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It's a feature in ONE game and it's done by ND.

Uncharted 4, Uncharted: The Last Legacy, The Last of Us 2..



Until then, continue to be proud!

Why should i be proud? I don't work for Naughty Dog.

What does GI have to do with SSS? Is this your way of confusing the argument even further? You are moving the goalpost so much I can't keep up.
Dude are fucking kidding me? Now i am moving goalpost?

You said this:

"Your GI, etc.. is old tech dude. I can name several games that use reverse normals (i.e. Marvel Avengers, Tomb Raider, MW, etc.. etc.. the list goes on. )."

So you just concluded "my GI" is old tech without providing any other title featuring the same tech? Because on Consoles, there are none. And to achieve similar results on PC, you have to activate ray tracing, and on just one game.

I don't play mediocre turds, you'll have to help me on this because i only see a rigid body here. Does a double chin form on Hulk? Does his nose bend? Or you're just talking about muscle simulations like those found on Kratos in GoWIII from 2010?

Oh but, wait a minute. Isn't this game just came out? So what happened from 2016 till now? A console game featured stuff not present on other titles no matter the price of the equiment?


Dying Light had an incredible procedural animation system. Zombies moved, walked, climbed, and traversed stairs incredibly realistically.
Which is not the same thing at all. Watch that video i've linked, then come back.

So.... let's get back to this SSS and GI mumbo-jumbo you are talking about.
And this? Why you omitted this?

 

VFXVeteran

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WD:L has last generation materials.

Prove it? WD:L uses anisotropic highlighting on some clothing of NPCs. They also have true multi-lobe SSS on the skin of all the characters (something no game has done yet). Their gold shader looks like a cooke-torrance BRDF as it should. What aspect is "last gen"? Show me a shader that's 'next-gen'.

The RT even in Digital Foundary Videos on Ultralooks shit and limited distance ( a bit higher than consoles version). There nothing good about that game. It's purely last gen. It's actually not even in the level of original Spider-Man on PS4 pro ( minus RT).

So the narrative is :

1) Ignore the crude geoemtry in MM
2) Ignore that it doesn't reflect leaves or smoke
3) Ignore that it doesn't render specular highlighting
4) Ignore that it doesn't show reflections in reflections..

AND

CLaim it the winner because it has a draw distance really far for buildings to reflect so therefore it's the best!!

Gotcha! This is a perfect example of taking ALL the negative things about the PS and throwing it away in order to favor that ONE small thing that is unique to use it as a superior technique.

You guys did this with every misstep that Sony has done. Ignored it and found a way to be happy anyway to continue the "superior" narrative..
 
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Monkeygourmet

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It's quite amusing that in the PC space they have had years to optimise RT and drivers over multiple GPU's and here comes Insomniac with Spiderman MM on a brand new console with a short dev time and.... bam! Most impresive RT out there on their first go lol
 
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VFXVeteran

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Uncharted 4, Uncharted: The Last Legacy, The Last of Us 2..




Why should i be proud? I don't work for Naughty Dog.

All ND. Where is the OTHER developer NOT ND???

Dude are fucking kidding me? Now i am moving goalpost?

You said this:

"Your GI, etc.. is old tech dude. I can name several games that use reverse normals (i.e. Marvel Avengers, Tomb Raider, MW, etc.. etc.. the list goes on. )."

So you just concluded "my GI" is old tech without providing any other title featuring the same tech? Because on Consoles, there are none. And to achieve similar results on PC, you have to activate ray tracing, and on just one game.

We was talking about SSS and how that is using a REVERSE NORMAL TECHNIQUE. We was ALSO was talking about your half-baked dynamic GI with a flashlight only.

FOCUS!!

REVERSE NORMALS - addresses the magical SSS you think is going on.

Dynamic GI -- not real full scene GI and doesn't address other objects occluding other objects..


GO! TALK ABOUT IT!

I don't play mediocre turds, you'll have to help me on this because i only see a rigid body here. Does a double chin form on Hulk? Does his nose bend? Or you're just talking about muscle simulations like those found on Kratos in GoWIII from 2010?

So you don't have the game so.. oh well.. you lost that argument.

Do me a favor, when you brag about a game's tech, please be fluent with all other games' tech so that you can do proper comparisons. Otherwise, you come across as a complete Sony warrior with not a shred of experience in other games not made by 1st party devs.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Prove it? WD:L uses anisotropic highlighting on some clothing of NPCs. They also have true multi-lobe SSS on the skin of all the characters (something no game has done yet). Their gold shader looks like a cooke-torrance BRDF as it should. What aspect is "last gen"? Show me a shader that's 'next-gen'.



So the narrative is :

1) Ignore the crude geoemtry in MM
2) Ignore that it doesn't reflect leaves or smoke
3) Ignore that it doesn't render specular highlighting
4) Ignore that it doesn't show reflections in reflections..

AND

CLaim it the winner because it has a draw distance really far for buildings to reflect so therefore it's the best!!

Gotcha! This is a perfect example of taking ALL the negative things about the PS and throwing it away in order to favor that ONE small thing that is unique to use it as a superior technique.

You guys did this with every misstep that Sony has done. Ignored it and found a way to be happy anyway to continue the "superior" narrative..

Don't mix shit up. You've seen Spider-Man Remastered that had an early build with less reflective leaves. Here it is now (from a video, so heavily compressed)



Happy now? You see the leaves?

Even fucking body hair:



Insane details



Game-fucking-play



The rest:

 
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Md Ray

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They cut out features and lowered resolution. You sound hypocritical. How can you praise a company for cutting out features that affect the look and lowered the resolution from native 4k and pat them on the back for producing a much much lower quality than the 2080Ti?
Just to be clear, are you saying they cut out features and lowered resolution in SM: MM compared to Ultra RT WD:L?

1. I wasn't comparing these two games.
2. The original comment of "sweet console optimization" of mine was made on Nov. 7th praising Insomniac's solution on PS5. I wasn't even thinking about WD:L at the time.
3. What do you mean by "lowered the resolution from native 4k"? SM: MM is native 4K with RT. Or are you talking about the resolution of the RT reflection?

Also, FYI, I don't go around calling other games or its graphics "complete garbage", "shit" just because they're third-party and I have a preference for PlayStation exclusives.

What about all the expectations that the next-gen consoles will at least do 4k/60 native and it didn't pan out that way?
I dislike the idea of chasing native 4K, and on top of that 60fps. I'm all for techniques such as temporal upsampling from a lower base resolution like 1440p like they do in Demon's Souls which looks fantastic. I'd rather devs spend their GPU resources on improving/adding rendering features than chasing more pixels at 60fps or 30fps.

What about you guys expecting full suite of RT features like Cerny mentioned in the PS reveal and not a single game has shown to do them all? Why don't they get criticized for that?
Why should they get criticized? The console hasn't even launched worldwide. Development takes time, you of all people would know this, no?

Give the console 6-7 years and we'll see different games using different RT features. We're seeing reflections from Insomniac. Some other team will use it for audio, others will use it for GI, shadows, and so on.
 
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Vick

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All ND. Where is the OTHER developer NOT ND???
You said one game, there are three. All on consoles only.

Dynamic GI -- not real full scene GI
Bullshit. Do you want me to post another batch of photos? It affect the full scene.

and doesn't address other objects occluding other objects..
Not really. Bounce lighting does not cast shadows, true, but most objects do self occlude and impact other objects.

GO! TALK ABOUT IT!
Yeah, let's talk about it. Which game feature comparable torch GI?
You said Metro using ray tracing.. post some proof of it.

So you don't have the game so.. oh well.. you lost that argument.
Ok, maybe. But..

Wait a minute. Isn't this game just came out? So what happened from 2016 till now? A console game featured stuff not present on other titles no matter the price of the equiment?

So what about your ever going narrative of nothing on console exclusives not present on PC?

Do me a favor, when you brag about a game's tech, please be fluent with all other games' tech so that you can do proper comparisons.
Says the guy constantly talking about Sony games... without having any clue about any of them. Dude, again:


Otherwise, you come across as a complete Sony warrior with not a shred of experience in other games not made by 1st party devs.
Nah, i've played RDR2. No other third party is on Rockstar level, so i'm good.

Speaking of which, which game feature this?


They also have true multi-lobe SSS on the skin of all the characters (something no game has done yet).
What the everlovingfuck is a multi-lobe SSS? Did you just came up with this?

Whatever Watch Dogs is doing with their SSS, i'm having a super hard time believing it was not done already by Naughty Dog. And if not by them, by Ready at Dawn.
 
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Prove it? WD:L uses anisotropic highlighting on some clothing of NPCs. They also have true multi-lobe SSS on the skin of all the characters (something no game has done yet). Their gold shader looks like a cooke-torrance BRDF as it should. What aspect is "last gen"? Show me a shader that's 'next-gen'.



So the narrative is :

1) Ignore the crude geoemtry in MM
2) Ignore that it doesn't reflect leaves or smoke
3) Ignore that it doesn't render specular highlighting
4) Ignore that it doesn't show reflections in reflections..

AND

CLaim it the winner because it has a draw distance really far for buildings to reflect so therefore it's the best!!

Gotcha! This is a perfect example of taking ALL the negative things about the PS and throwing it away in order to favor that ONE small thing that is unique to use it as a superior technique.

You guys did this with every misstep that Sony has done. Ignored it and found a way to be happy anyway to continue the "superior" narrative..
Who cares about multi lube rendering? The final results are inferior to Spider-Man MM.
And you ignore that WD:L doesn't reflect a whole building even on ultra RTX 3090
 

Krappadizzle

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I don't play mediocre turds, you'll have to help me on this because i only see a rigid body here.

Not to cut in on y'all's argument or anything, but I'm 99% sure you've at least played Dino Crisis 3 and probably Dead Space 3. Plus you think P.T. is the greatest horror game of all time. So stop being a dirty liar...😜
 
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You said one game, there are three. All on consoles only.


Bullshit. Do you want me to post another batch of photos? It affect the full scene.


Not really. Bounce lighting does not cast shadows, true, but most objects do self occlude and impact other objects.


Yeah, let's talk about it. Which game feature comparable torch GI?
You said Metro using ray tracing.. post some proof of it.


Ok, maybe. But..

Wait a minute. Isn't this game just came out? So what happened from 2016 till now? A console game featured stuff not present on other titles no matter the price of the equiment?

So what about your ever going narrative of nothing on console exclusives not present on PC?


Says the guy constantly talking about Sony games... without having any clue about any of them. Dude, again:



Nah, i've played RDR2. No other third party is on Rockstar level, so i'm good.

Speaking of which, which game feature this?



What the everlovingfuck is a multi-lobe SSS? Did you just came up with this?

Whatever Watch Dogs is doing with their SSS, i'm having a super hard time believing it was not done already by Naughty Dog. And if not by them, by Ready at Dawn.
That Day's Gone video is impressive. I haven't played that game.
 

VFXVeteran

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Don't mix shit up. You've seen Spider-Man Remastered that had an early build with less reflective leaves. Here it is now (from a video, so heavily compressed)



Happy now? You see the leaves?

Even fucking body hair:



Insane details



Game-fucking-play



The rest:


Dude, I can't see a good representation of proper leaves in that scene at all. Why are you taking it at such a sharp angle? Are you trying to hide the proxy geo?

I'm going to stop here.

If you want to argue specifics with screenshots then come to the WD:L DF thread. There I can have more people that have a non-biased perspective to counter all of you Sony warriors. I refuse to start a debate in a Sony-based thread where only Sony boys hang out.

Come to the DF - WD:L thread and we can continue there.. better yet, come to my Ray-tracing thread OT and we can hash it out there.

I'm out.
 
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Don't play it on PS4. AWFUL load times, and 30fps shooting with the amount of crazy zombies they can throw at you just isn't fun. Play it on PS5, it'll solve pretty much all the PS4 issues. It's a really fun game.
I am getting my PS5 on Thursday. I won't buy the game as it comes for free for PS Plus.
You see, with PS plus you get impressive games for free. Some other services gives you Craig.
 
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Dude, I can't see a good representation of proper leaves in that scene at all. Why are you taking it at such a sharp angle? Are you trying to hide the proxy geo?

I'm going to stop here.

If you want to argue specifics with screenshots then come to the WD:L DF thread. There I can have more people that have a non-biased perspective to counter all of you Sony warriors. I refuse to start a debate in a Sony-based thread where only Sony boys hang out.

Come to the DF - WD:L thread and we can continue there.. better yet, come to my Ray-tracing thread OT and we can hash it out there.

I'm out.
Look at Spider-Man suit, do you think multi lube SSX rendering can match that? Show me a WD:L multi lube material that looks like that.



 
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molly14

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This game looks mind-blowing.The draw distance,the ray-tracing,the weather effects etc

Not bad for a console costing under 500 pounds.Shame I cant get hold of the console for probably months:messenger_pensive:
 
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mancs

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The order on a standard p4 could push a high end pc game for looks lol.

Not really lol , as it goes to show , it is developing time , skills, and team of programmers and artists etc ,who make the game , not the powahhhh.
 
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Vick

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Not to cut in on y'all's argument or anything, but I'm 99% sure you've at least played Dino Crisis 3 and probably Dead Space 3. Plus you think P.T. is the greatest horror game of all time. So stop being a dirty liar...😜
1) - I've never been even near that disgusting mess of DC3. My first Xbox was the 360.

2) - Only played the demo of DS3, refused to buy it.

3) - P.T. is the best horror of all time.

:messenger_blowing_kiss:

That Day's Gone video is impressive. I haven't played that game.
Me neither. Waiting for that 4K 60fps goodness on PS5. It's going to be glorious.
 
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1) - I've never been even near that disgusting mess of DC3. My first Xbox was the 360.

2) - Only played the demo of DS3, refused to buy it.

3) - P.T. is the best horror of all time.

:messenger_blowing_kiss:


Me neither. Waiting for that 4K 60fps goodness on PS5. It's going to be glorious.
The original Dead Space is one of my favorite games of all times. The sequels were disappointing. Dead Space filled the gap made by Capcom fucking up Resident Evil at that time. I am currently happy with the last two remakes, but little worried about that Village game
 
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Monkeygourmet

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Dude, I can't see a good representation of proper leaves in that scene at all. Why are you taking it at such a sharp angle? Are you trying to hide the proxy geo?

I'm going to stop here.

If you want to argue specifics with screenshots then come to the WD:L DF thread. There I can have more people that have a non-biased perspective to counter all of you Sony warriors. I refuse to start a debate in a Sony-based thread where only Sony boys hang out.

Come to the DF - WD:L thread and we can continue there.. better yet, come to my Ray-tracing thread OT and we can hash it out there.

I'm out.

"I'm not going to stay in a Digital Foundary thread, come to another Digital Foundary thread to talk more..."

Well, that makes sense lol
 
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wow, this thread is something. Why would any downplay RT in MM? It’s a breakthrough as the traditional RT is just too expensive.
 
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wow, this thread is something. Why would any downplay RT in MM? It’s a breakthrough as the traditional RT is just too expensive.
Spider-Man MM does really have expansive RT reflections. All these big buildings reflecting the environment. I believe this game is like a stress test. There are reflective surfaces everywhere. If MM is anything to go by, PS5 exclusives will definitely have some of the best RT this gen.
 
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