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Mario Kart 8 is the worst 3d mario kart
- Thread starter Retromelon
- Start date
Elfforkusu
Member
200cc is the greatest thing to ever happen to Mario Kart IMO, so...
Disagree.
Disagree.
frozenmeatpopsicle
Neo Member
Yea, I'll throw myself in for a big disagree on that as well. My absolute favorite Mario Kart was 64 right up until 8 narrowly pushed it down.
Yes 8 isn't perfect, but it's far, FAR from the worst. Each game has it's good and bad points.
64: It cheated frequently with unabashed rubber-banding. I actually liked this most of the time in 1 or 2 player Grand Prix races, as it added to the challenge. It was always fun seeing the exact same times for you and whoever was trying to pass you on the line, especially since the player always wins in that instance. Unfortunately there was also the occasional slingshot which put 1st place completely out of reach, which always sucked.
But that said while the AI did rubber-band like crazy(how can you keep up while I'm mashing the Gold Mushroom!?), they didn't use many items. I don't recall them using Red Shells, Blue Shells, or stealing your items with the Boo. I don't recall them with Triple Shells either? Might need citation on that. I do like how Red and Blue shells aren't super intelligent like in the proceeding games, with both being able to run into walls if used incorrectly. But Red Shells definitely sucked when someone was too far in front of you.
The game is also hot garbage with more than 2 players in anything other than battle mode.
Double Dash: The only things I really had issue with was fighting with the car physics, the flying Blue Shell/homing shells being too intelligent, and lack of good battle courses. The battle modes themselves were great fun, and probably the perfect iteration of battle mode, but the courses generally sucked. Especially compared to the 64 maps.
DS: I don't really recall having much issue with this, but it does have it's flaws; Dpad, Snaking, Item stat. Other than that it was great. Chock full of content and first introduced the retro tracks.
Oh, blowing up balloons for battle mode sucked though. Big con for the start of the downfall of battle mode.
Wii: I would say that Wii is the "worst" in my opinion, pretty much only because:
1. It was too chaotic(12 racers with the worst and worst balanced items)
2. OP stuff really was OP(wheelies, character specific stats)
3. It also felt slow overall?
4. Was the real downfall of battle mode
Everything else about it was fine.
7: This one nearly squeezed out 64 for me. The only real problem with it is it felt light on content. Especially with characters.
Yes 8 isn't perfect, but it's far, FAR from the worst. Each game has it's good and bad points.
64: It cheated frequently with unabashed rubber-banding. I actually liked this most of the time in 1 or 2 player Grand Prix races, as it added to the challenge. It was always fun seeing the exact same times for you and whoever was trying to pass you on the line, especially since the player always wins in that instance. Unfortunately there was also the occasional slingshot which put 1st place completely out of reach, which always sucked.
But that said while the AI did rubber-band like crazy(how can you keep up while I'm mashing the Gold Mushroom!?), they didn't use many items. I don't recall them using Red Shells, Blue Shells, or stealing your items with the Boo. I don't recall them with Triple Shells either? Might need citation on that. I do like how Red and Blue shells aren't super intelligent like in the proceeding games, with both being able to run into walls if used incorrectly. But Red Shells definitely sucked when someone was too far in front of you.
The game is also hot garbage with more than 2 players in anything other than battle mode.
Double Dash: The only things I really had issue with was fighting with the car physics, the flying Blue Shell/homing shells being too intelligent, and lack of good battle courses. The battle modes themselves were great fun, and probably the perfect iteration of battle mode, but the courses generally sucked. Especially compared to the 64 maps.
DS: I don't really recall having much issue with this, but it does have it's flaws; Dpad, Snaking, Item stat. Other than that it was great. Chock full of content and first introduced the retro tracks.
Oh, blowing up balloons for battle mode sucked though. Big con for the start of the downfall of battle mode.
Wii: I would say that Wii is the "worst" in my opinion, pretty much only because:
1. It was too chaotic(12 racers with the worst and worst balanced items)
2. OP stuff really was OP(wheelies, character specific stats)
3. It also felt slow overall?
4. Was the real downfall of battle mode
Everything else about it was fine.
7: This one nearly squeezed out 64 for me. The only real problem with it is it felt light on content. Especially with characters.
To reiterate what people have said already, this is definitely not true for 64. Lightweights were definitely the best choice, followed by Heavies, then the hot garbage that were Middleweights. Lightweights had high acceleration as well as the highest top speed. Heavies and Mids had the same top speed, but heavies had a much better accel curve. Proof.
While I do think some of your points are somewhat true, to me it's the best Mario Kart. Just wished it had a MK64 style Battle Mode, but I doubt any Mario Kart is ever gonna dethrone 64 Battle Mode.
To me Double Dash!!, Super Circuit and the original are by far the worst. Didn't play the original until way after 64 so that might explain that somewhat. Mario Kart DS and 7 are awesome, but limited by the formfactor of the hardware. I can't really play them for long periods of time before getting handcramps. Wii was decent.
To me Double Dash!!, Super Circuit and the original are by far the worst. Didn't play the original until way after 64 so that might explain that somewhat. Mario Kart DS and 7 are awesome, but limited by the formfactor of the hardware. I can't really play them for long periods of time before getting handcramps. Wii was decent.
Mario Kart Double Das and 64 are really awesome, Mario Kart Wii and 8 aren't that fun.
We dropped both games rather quickly and people heavily preferred Blur as a quick fun couch splitscreen racer.
The biggest issue in Blur is the missing drift mechanic of any decent kart racer.
Really weird that it doesn't have one, it would make the game so much better but even without it we like Blur way more than 8.
We dropped both games rather quickly and people heavily preferred Blur as a quick fun couch splitscreen racer.
The biggest issue in Blur is the missing drift mechanic of any decent kart racer.
Really weird that it doesn't have one, it would make the game so much better but even without it we like Blur way more than 8.
No, I read that part. It still doesn't answer my question and you're still not providing any info on how a wide track is detrimental to your enjoyment of the game.
By the time you get even remotely good at this game (or any Mario Kart, really) you already have race lines defined so it doesn't matter at all if a track is as wide as a highway or as narrow as an alley. You'll follow the path you've memorized in your head unless there's an item threatening to hit you.
Now..sure, you definitely won't see 12 people racing side by side but did it ever occur to you that now you have to deal with more items than ever?
Now you have to watch out for constant random bouncing and flying green shells, bananas, bombs, horns, piranha plants, bullet bill, etc etc.
Items with HUGE hitboxes. It'd be a clusterfuck if tracks were as narrow as they originally were (a time where stars and single bananas were the worst threat you could possibly face)
Wider tracks allow to keep the flow of the race going as people have enough space to maneuver and dodge items.
There's also the fact that (as someone else in this very thread said) now you have different drift systems for the vehicles available in the game so they need to find the right balance to make those work with the way tracks are designed.
And I'm sorry to say this but I can't really take you seriously when you say Wii tracks were "normal sized " when you have stuff like this:
cireza
Member
I agree with pretty much all the points made by OP, but it does not make it the worst Mario Kart ever.
However, it still lacks fun as a Mario Kart game. My main grip is that it is indeed incredibly conservative. Nintendo taking the no risk route once again.
My favorite game is Double Dash. Such an incredible step forward. It was also a game that rewarded skill more than the others, will still being incredibly fun. 16 tracks is enough, if the quality is there.
I guess Mario Kart is a little bit like the Sonic games : each episode has its fans, and it is probably difficult to satisfy everyone.
However, it still lacks fun as a Mario Kart game. My main grip is that it is indeed incredibly conservative. Nintendo taking the no risk route once again.
My favorite game is Double Dash. Such an incredible step forward. It was also a game that rewarded skill more than the others, will still being incredibly fun. 16 tracks is enough, if the quality is there.
I guess Mario Kart is a little bit like the Sonic games : each episode has its fans, and it is probably difficult to satisfy everyone.
Simbabbad
Member
That's pretty abstract. IMO they have the exact same issues, nothing changed, except MK8 is prettier, has much less online options, and is harder for casuals yet without rewarding skill. I ended up uninstalling it from my console, shame I picked it up digital, I could have sold it.
First time I do this with a Mario Kart game before the end of the generation. I wish I had kept MKWii, it was funnier and had a handful of actually good racing tracks that asked skill.
Double Dash is the best, but 8 is still far better than MKWii
One of my biggest complaints about the recent games is that the red shells have gotten too damn good. In DD you needed to at least fire them on a clear-ish path as they could get lost in pits or sharp turns, and it was still somewhat possible to dodge them. Now though, they'll follow someone to the depths of hell and back, the slowdown from getting hit by them is extremely harsh (worse than falling off the map, wtf), and fucking everyone is able to get triples.
One of my biggest complaints about the recent games is that the red shells have gotten too damn good. In DD you needed to at least fire them on a clear-ish path as they could get lost in pits or sharp turns, and it was still somewhat possible to dodge them. Now though, they'll follow someone to the depths of hell and back, the slowdown from getting hit by them is extremely harsh (worse than falling off the map, wtf), and fucking everyone is able to get triples.
Theognosis
Member
200 cc. Change in strategy between antigravity and ground. Seemless online. F-Zero. Waterfalls. Drifting and braking. Zelda. Baby Park. Excite Bike. F-Zero.
Isn't pulling away from your opponents--thanks to skill and luck--the reason why we race in the first place?
So you want heavy characters to be even more over-powered by knocking your favorite Yoshi off the track so you get left behind even more?
Hasn't it always been this way? At least on the few Mario Karts I've played it seemed less likely you would get something good if in the lead.
Simbabbad
Member
This, and it got only worse in MK8 when the damn things are able to FLY. I don't even understand why the game warns you a red shell is coming, there is nothing you can do about it. This alone makes Double Dash a better game.
How do those answer the "gameplay is conservative" point?
"Seemless online. F-Zero. Waterfalls. Drifting and braking. Zelda. Baby Park. Excite Bike. F-Zero." - those either were there already or have nothing to do with gameplay, 200cc is a lame add-on that doesn't fit at all any of the track design, and there is barely any change in strategy between antigravity and ground, opponents just become boosters.
How does that answer the "items are not good enough to help you make comebacks anymore" point? The way items work, they screw people in last/medium places without allowing them to actually go forward, it's just a negative force. If you're hit at the very beginning of the race and the leader pack gets away, you have next to no way to reach it again regardless of what you get. All the items make the experience of people around you totally miserable and frustrating, but you won't be able to come back.
Giving you items that significantly help you while asking for skill without frustrating the other players would be ideal, but alas we don't get that, instead we get stuff like bloopers or lightings which don't help the people who use them, and annoy the other players.
Diprosalic
Banned
MK64 is straight trash only relying on nostalgia it's the worst by far.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If you're in front there is a decent chance that when you hit a ? block you're going to get a bananna peel or one of the shells. You can hold these shells or peels at the back of your kart. So when the red shell catches up to you it hits the power up instead of you.
Obviously this isn't something you can do all of the time, but it happens pretty frequently.
Simbabbad
Member
There's also a good chance you'll get coins you don't need or your protective item will get busted by a previous red shell, and if you're in the middle it's even worse since you can get useless offensive items like Bloopers or BOB-ombs or lightings that will make you defenceless and won't help you gain places.
The point is that before MKWii, you could use skill or the environment to dodge red shells, and the person launching it had to do so in the proper context for it to be effective, and since MKWii that racing/skill/competition element has been replaced by Mario Party logic: you can dodge this random item if you happen to own that other random item. What fun.
You know, I didn't enjoy Double Dash much, I liked it but found it became dull pretty fast, but it was a much better game than MK8. Red shells were a fun element because you felt real good when you dodged one or used one to hit, whereas in MK8 I even felt guilty when I launched a red shell because I didn't deserve that push, there was no challenge involved.
Mario Kart would be so much better if items were tools that don't automatically help or screw you, if you could dodge red shells and even blue shells if you were good, or miss when you use offensive elements. Now, only green shells and banana peels work this way, and everybody use them as defensive items anyway.
Take the Chain Chomp in Double Dash vs. the Bullet Bill: if you didn't use the Chain Chomp correctly, it could screw you up because it was difficult to handle, whereas the Bullet Bill is just automatic "go forward five spots" Mario Party logic.
Mario Kart 8 offered a good show but was an exercise in frustration online and always gave me the impression I was wasting my time, and I had MUCH more fun locally with Double Dash, it's not even a contest. I don't understand why Mario Kart 8 is so overrated. And again, I don't understand how nobody seems to mind the regression in online compared to MKWii.
I mostly agree with OP.
But it's all due the fact that Nintendo isn't trying to make this "party games" challenging anymore.
I remember when MK circuits where skillful. When drifting was actually a meaningful mechanic and master it was a challenge itself. When you should think twice about trying to take a shortcut becaus it could mean a big fail...
None of that exist anymore. I totally embrace what you say about making Rainbow Road and Bowser Castle boring. 2 of the most challenging course in the series mean nothing...
The only circuit that kinda retains the previos statements it's the F-Zero, but that it.
I have no hope for the NX version with all the talk about bringing back casuals that's going on...
But it's all due the fact that Nintendo isn't trying to make this "party games" challenging anymore.
I remember when MK circuits where skillful. When drifting was actually a meaningful mechanic and master it was a challenge itself. When you should think twice about trying to take a shortcut becaus it could mean a big fail...
None of that exist anymore. I totally embrace what you say about making Rainbow Road and Bowser Castle boring. 2 of the most challenging course in the series mean nothing...
The only circuit that kinda retains the previos statements it's the F-Zero, but that it.
I have no hope for the NX version with all the talk about bringing back casuals that's going on...
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Hahaha, no.
Best game on WiiU. Looks amazing, and plays like a dream. I don't really like the roster though...not the best, but it's tolerable.
Best game on WiiU. Looks amazing, and plays like a dream. I don't really like the roster though...not the best, but it's tolerable.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Biggest revelation from this thread is people thinking MKWii was really good or in any kind of discussion for Best fuckin' anything
Retromelon
Member
Wow, you might literally be the only one. You should make a "am I the only one" thread (don't) just to have it be the one time where you really are.
I actually love that you enjoy it.^^
Haha I might be. but I really prefer it, that moment of tracking their location on the map and laying in wait as you nail them. Or you see them realize "oh shit you've been trailing me the whole time???" so much fun. Was very disappointed at the number of tracks available but eh hope the mode stays this way.
Nocturnowl
Member
Best enraging clusterfuck my friend.
(my deep dark secret is I enjoyed that entry regardless)
PeakPointMatrix
Member
The existence of MK64 shatters the concept of this thread into atoms.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I still have nightmares sometimes of that game's chaotic mess of an online play. 12 people on motorcycles, bumping each other off tracks, with the worst of all time item balance. Nevermind how ugly and sterile looking(and sounding, I hate the sound design) that game was, especially in a post MK8 world.
Iconic representation of the MKWii online experience
200cc fits and compliments the track design superbly. The increased speed transforms the shortcuts and demands more technical skill from players, requiring that they use the brakes effectively.
MK8 is the best Mario Kart because it has the most refined driving mechanics.
Nocturnowl
Member
Ah MKwii online, I stuck it out with karts till the end, everyone on boswer bikes or whatever while I cruised DK around in the Dragonetti like a hipster gorilla.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
didnt even pick the right gorilla
While it never occurred to me to call mk8 the worst Mario kart ever, I will say that the multiplayer experience this time around is... lacking in some way. What were usually long, fun, loud multiplayer binges with friends in prior mk games are now usually over after one 4-track cup. Something's different. I'm not sure what it is but mk8 has become more fun as a single player game.
Nocturnowl
Member
didnt even pick the right gorilla
That picture must be shopped, Funky never appears without his patented Bowser Bike
I haven't played the first three games, but I actually liked Wii the best. I felt like the courses in that one didn't fuck around, with classics like Toad Factory, Maple Treeway, Koopa Cape, Grumble Volcano, Moonview Highway, Bowser's Castle, and Rainbow Road. The retro courses didn't do much for me compared to the newer games, but that's probably because a lot of Wii's great courses were added.
I barely even remember most of the courses from DS and 7. I never really got the appeal of the handheld entries.
I barely even remember most of the courses from DS and 7. I never really got the appeal of the handheld entries.
NO.
A drift mechanic in Blur would truly make the game be a Mario Kart with a Need for Speed coat of paint. Blur is unique that you need to learn how take the turns somewhat properly instead taking turns in a brain dead way all the time.
Besides you can use the Nitro during a regular drift anyways to speed through sharper turns anyways.
Blur is my favorite best item based racer. Best item system of any racer.
Nocturnowl
Member
I don't think MK7 is a bad game by any stretch but something about it makes it the most flavourless entry in recent years, if any of them felt like MK by the numbers it was 7.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I think items being weaker are the main reason I like Mario Kart 8.
didnt even pick the right gorilla
The best characters in mkw (funky/daisy) would be the most obnoxious ones...
Screw that ape.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Also confused about the item thing because it's something that literally never comes up for me. I have plenty of online races where I'm in last or in the back and I make up some ground and come in 3rd or so. So yeah that's a nonsense complaint.
The heavy characters thing is kinda true, but it's true in pretty much every game and also just play 200cc because that's what I do and my Baby Luigi rocks. I even do okay in 150cc with medium characters, so I dunno what to tell you.
The heavy characters thing is kinda true, but it's true in pretty much every game and also just play 200cc because that's what I do and my Baby Luigi rocks. I even do okay in 150cc with medium characters, so I dunno what to tell you.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
MKWii is the GOAT if you just plain flat out suck at racing and want to use items to compensate for it.
Retromelon
Member
Like 10 other people besides me have confirmed what I said about items. It is not a nonsense complaint. Furthermore, this items issue has recurred in literally hundreds, if not thousands of my races. Just because heavy characters have been cheap in every other game, which is demonstrably false because light characters were the best in mario kart 64 and double dash, does not make an excuse for totally unbalanced and overpowered character choices. The underpowered items in combination with the complete domination and cheapness of heavy characters like pink gold peach and rosalina makes for a completely unfair and terrible to play Mario kart game.
I think the point is moreso that most Mario Karts with differentiated character classes will have some class as the most optimal, rather than the fatasses being broken specifically; having everyone playing as anorexic feathers isn't any better than having everyone play as obese bricks, which doesn't reflect well on the argument in the OP that MK8 is comparatively worse on account of having an overpowered class of characters.
Honestly, most of this is just preference. Some people like more items and disruptions, some don't.
RobFox64tm
Member
I'll agree with you about the item system in online matches and the half-baked battle mode, but I think you're way off base with everything else. It's not the visuals that make this my favorite Mario Kart at all--as beautiful as the game is--but the game just feels right to play. Mechanically, it's damn near perfect, and I hope this game is the base for every Mario Kart to come.
MisterLuffy
Member
I have to disagree, I think it's a great add-on. Especially for tracks like Mute City and Big Blue. It can also work with some other tracks too. The only problem I had the first time I tried it out was that I kept falling off the track. That's when I had to learn how to properly break when making a sharp turn. In my opinion, Dragon Driftway is a difficult track to race on 200cc. There are other tracks that I haven't mentioned but Dragon Driftway came to mind because of sharp turns after sharp turns at the beginning of the course.
Theognosis
Member
The use of brakes in a drift at 200cc changes the game significantly. The gameplay in Baby Park, Excite Bike and F-Zero are too many to mention and they are anything but conservative.
The beauty of MK8 is that it prioritizes racing skills above everything else. I could let my kid get a one-lap head start and still be able to win on the last lap using SKILL and items given only to the last positions. But if I'm against a highly-skilled opponent and I give him that, I won't be able to pull it off--just like in a real race.
If you want to win in this game, you have to have SKILL. So git gud.
I think the real problem with items in MK8 is how you are much more likely to get repeatedly hit then in previous games. In MK8 you can be in first at the start of the final lap. Get hit by a shell (since you rarely have a defensive item) and then it snowballs as you get hit 5 or 6 consecutive times. This sucks for 2 reasons. One because you are stuck in the middle of the pack and constantly getting hit, and 2 because now your top speed is limited without having 10 coins.
I guess compared to MK64 (the GOAT MK) the rubber banding feels different. In previous MK games the rubber banding was built to slingshot the player forward, consequently race times would be faster then time trial times. As items such as the gold mushroom, invincibility star, even lightning acted in a similar manner.
In MK8 the Rubberbanding feels more like a bungee chord that is designed to pull you towards the middle of the pack. This makes it feel less skill based then previous entries as the level of player skill required to successfully make use of the slingshot mechanics has been replaced with Hoping that item RNG will give you the right matchup that you need to successfully navigate the middle of the pack. Which is now even more treacherous thanks to there being 12 racers.
Edit: 200cc is still broken in favour of heavyweights. It's just that 200cc is too fast for most players so the lower top speed of lightweights keeps the game in range of most players reflexes, that means less crashes and more wins. But heavyweights are still OP
I guess compared to MK64 (the GOAT MK) the rubber banding feels different. In previous MK games the rubber banding was built to slingshot the player forward, consequently race times would be faster then time trial times. As items such as the gold mushroom, invincibility star, even lightning acted in a similar manner.
In MK8 the Rubberbanding feels more like a bungee chord that is designed to pull you towards the middle of the pack. This makes it feel less skill based then previous entries as the level of player skill required to successfully make use of the slingshot mechanics has been replaced with Hoping that item RNG will give you the right matchup that you need to successfully navigate the middle of the pack. Which is now even more treacherous thanks to there being 12 racers.
Edit: 200cc is still broken in favour of heavyweights. It's just that 200cc is too fast for most players so the lower top speed of lightweights keeps the game in range of most players reflexes, that means less crashes and more wins. But heavyweights are still OP
Gotdatmoney
Member
The worst thing about Mario Kart 8 is the items distribution and only 3 item boxes. I say this because you fall into a category in that game where if you are in 1-3rd you are usually away from the clusterfuck but within that group the way the items work you may never get any useful items. What the fuck do I need a coin for in 2nd? You essentially have 3 chances to pray you get something useful because you wont catch anyone on skill through that seperation nornally. And second place is in way more danger thsn 1st so its almost pure luck to catch up if the separation is close.
The people in the top 3 positions do not need coins period. And is it me or have red shells become some fucking bullshit? The tracking is so tight now and they fly. You should be able to shake a red shell around tight corners and other objects. In terms of people complaining about the first lap or even first item box deciding who wins pretty much all mario kart games are like that.
Your catchup ability against people that know what the fuck they are doing is always going to be limited. Not being able to drag items imo is a 50/50 split. In some instances its good because people in first who just drag a banana just cannot be touched for whole races sometimes. But on the flip if they are gonna let you get useless coins and have its like red shell have beast tracking ability then it makes sense to be able to protect yourself.
Mario Kart 8 is not casual gamer friendly. And that is what makes mario kart popular. So imo the next game needs to have a mode to up the bullshit and comeback ability. Ranked Pure and Ranked Regular online modes would help a ton.
The people in the top 3 positions do not need coins period. And is it me or have red shells become some fucking bullshit? The tracking is so tight now and they fly. You should be able to shake a red shell around tight corners and other objects. In terms of people complaining about the first lap or even first item box deciding who wins pretty much all mario kart games are like that.
Your catchup ability against people that know what the fuck they are doing is always going to be limited. Not being able to drag items imo is a 50/50 split. In some instances its good because people in first who just drag a banana just cannot be touched for whole races sometimes. But on the flip if they are gonna let you get useless coins and have its like red shell have beast tracking ability then it makes sense to be able to protect yourself.
Mario Kart 8 is not casual gamer friendly. And that is what makes mario kart popular. So imo the next game needs to have a mode to up the bullshit and comeback ability. Ranked Pure and Ranked Regular online modes would help a ton.