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[GreyHorace]

This strikes me as one of the most low key innovations we've had in this generation. In games featuring melee combat, we're sometimes forced to wail away at some high powered enemy who takes all your attacks like a goddamn sponge. Case in point (starts at 1:31):




But then some developers got creative and introduced the idea of breaking your enemy's posture and leaving them vulnerable to a killing blow. This concept was first introduced (as far as I know), by From Software in Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice:




And the recent Ghost of Tsushima by Sucker Punch has a similar system where you can stagger enemies with heavy attacks to break their guard:




Needless to say, I love this style of combat as it makes fighting enemies much less frustrating while not taking the challenge away. Have any other games implemented such a system? As far as I know only Sekiro and Ghost are the only games that have it.

But what do you Gaffers think of posture based combat?

 

[The Shepard]

Nioh was the first game I played with posture based combat. I do like the idea, adds a bit of tactics to the game rather then spamming the attack button constantly. Playing through ghosts of tsushima atm.

 

[Rikkori]

The ACO example is misleading. The problem isn't with the game design it's with having a bad build and not utilising the weakness system. With a HS build that guy would've been dispatched in <5 secs.

As for forms, only tried it with Nioh & it sucked because it was just extra micro-managing timing bars. Much duller than other systems and a drag. Pass.

 

[GymWolf]

I like postures in nioh or dmc or even for honor (don't really remember a lot of that game), tsushima posture system is as deep as a puddle, it's just more damage to an archetype of enemy, the end.

You don't even need to remember the correct one because the icon has a little sword or spear in it.

And when you have enough upgrades you can fuck up enemies anyway without even changing stance.

I guess the animations for the different style are cool to look at it...

 

[GreyHorace]

Nioh was the first game I played with posture based combat. I do like the idea, adds a bit of tactics to the game rather then spamming the attack button constantly. Playing through ghosts of tsushima atm.

Haven't played Nioh, so I really can't compare. Maybe someday I'll give it a try but after dying for the hundredth time in Sekiro I'm in no hurry to play another Soulslike game.

The ACO example is misleading. The problem isn't with the game design it's with having a bad build and not utilising the weakness system. With a HS build that guy would've been dispatched in <5 secs.

Even with a build not specific for staggering enemies you can still break an enemy's posture in a few hits in Ghost of Tsushima. Granted I haven't played the game yet, but that clip from Odyssey on the other hand is absolutely ridiculous. These are supposed to be humans you're fighting yet that brute can tank more hits than the Hulk.

 

[Tranquil]

I like postures in nioh or dmc or even for honor (don't really remember a lot of that game), tsushima posture system is as deep as a puddle, it's just more damage to an archetype of enemy, the end.

You don't even need to remember the correct one because the icon has a little sword or spear in it.

And when you have enough upgrades you can fuck up enemies anyway without even changing stance.

I guess the animations for the different style are cool to look at it...

Although if you try to attack an enemy without changing style the game will literally pause itself and tell you to change styles.

 

[GymWolf]

Although if you try to attack an enemy without changing style the game will literally pause itself and tell you to change styles.

Yeah, for a game with immersion in mind, these tips for stance change or heal when you have low health are a punch in the eye.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I'd have to whip out the og playstation to refresh my memory, but didn't Bushido Blade kinda have something similar?

 

[GymWolf]

I'd have to whip out the og playstation to refresh my memory, but didn't Bushido Blade kinda have something similar?

Yes, bushido blade has a stance system.

 

[Clear]

Nioh remains the most overlooked new franchise this gen. Fantastic games.

 

[royox]

Jedi Fallen Order is posture based literally. Makes the lightsaber battles super intense and cinematic instead of flashy mindless spam of Jedi Knight Academy.

 

[Jigsaah]

Demon's Souls was the first posture based combat game I can remember. Hmmm...maybe Ninja Gaiden on the OG Xbox?

Actually, if you wanna get technical...Double Dragon has posture based combat in spades.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I'll probably get shit for saying this. But For Honor is probably my favorite posture based fighter.

 

[GreyHorace]

Jedi Fallen Order is posture based literally. Makes the lightsaber battles super intense and cinematic instead of flashy mindless spam of Jedi Knight Academy.

Can't believe I forgot about Fallen Order. I love that game, and it actually takes a lot of cues from Sekiro in it's combat.

 

[GymWolf]

I'll probably get shit for saying this. But For Honor is probably my favorite posture based fighter.

You can't get shit, for honor has some of the best melee combat of this gen, probably superior to any souls or nioh game (different styles tho), it's just difficult to master so people overlook the game.

It's incredible how assassins creed saga from the same devs has some of the shittier combat of this gen...

 

[The Cockatrice]

Sekiro was incredibly satisfying in that regard. Mikiri counter is a must in the game tho.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

You can't get shit, for honor has some of the best melee combat of this gen, probably superior to any souls or nioh game (different styles tho), it's just difficult to master so people overlook the game.

It's incredible how assassins creed saga from the same devs has some of the shittier combat of this gen...

Spot on! Completely agree, and it's funny that you mention AC, as you can tell plenty of the combat was "borrowed" from For Honor, but poorly executed. It's a shame the game didn't gain much traction after it's release, although there still seems to be a sizeable dedicated fanbase.

 

[GymWolf]

Spot on! Completely agree, and it's funny that you mention AC, as you can tell plenty of the combat was "borrowed" from For Honor, but poorly executed. It's a shame the game didn't gain much traction after it's release, although there still seems to be a sizeable dedicated fanbase.

Ac combat nowdays is mostly souls light combat with cooldown moves, shitty impacts and animations and a very slippery feeling.

I don't really see the for honor influence tbh.

 

[Kamina]

Posture rewards skill. God-Like Bullet Sponge enemies should just die.

 

[JTCx]

You can't get shit, for honor has some of the best melee combat of this gen, probably superior to any souls or nioh game (different styles tho), it's just difficult to master so people overlook the game.

It's incredible how assassins creed saga from the same devs has some of the shittier combat of this gen...

For honor was fun however i stopped playing right before the release of the wu lin. The game's combat had issues. Its really not as deep when you get to higher levels. Warlords, peacekeeper, and wardens ran over any classes in 1v1. These characters were fairly one dimensional especially the warlord. Full block into headbutt feints. Wardens instant aoe attack where you literally had to force your guard left at all times or eat free damage and at the same time hes shoulder feinting for unblockables. Assassins were a pain to play against on consoles because of locked 30fps so their lights became unparryable. If you play any other classed youd have problems opening uo anybody because the options were so limited especially with the guard break windows so generous. Also im not even gonna talk about revenge.

Im pretty sure the game is probably in a better state now but it was no surprise the playerbase dropped pretty hard back then.

 

[GymWolf]

For honor was fun however i stopped playing right before the release of the wu lin. The game's combat had issues. Its really not as deep when you get to higher levels. Warlords, peacekeeper, and wardens ran over any classes in 1v1. These characters were fairly one dimensional especially the warlord. Full block into headbutt feints. Wardens instant aoe attack where you literally had to force your guard left at all times or eat free damage and at the same time hes shoulder feinting for unblockables. Assassins were a pain to play against on consoles because of locked 30fps so their lights became unparryable. If you play any other classed youd have problems opening uo anybody because the options were so limited especially with the guard break windows so generous. Also im not even gonna talk about revenge.

Im pretty sure the game is probably in a better state now but it was no surprise the playerbase dropped pretty hard back then.

didn't they fixed a lot of things? i don't remember much about the game unfortunately.

I was not even that good so i probably didn't played the game as much as you.

 

[llLeonhart]

I really think the combat in GoT is really good. I would also really struggle to compare to Sekiro, I think Sekiro has much better combat feeling overall, but GoT is much more stylish.

In Sekiro, it's almost a requirement to break postures, otherwise your just making your life that much harder.

In GoT, for the most part, it's optional. That left me much more room to explore and to do other stuff and improve not only the flow of the combat, but also the style. God I love Ghost of Tsushima.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Ac combat nowdays is mostly souls light combat with cooldown moves, shitty impacts and animations and a very slippery feeling.

I don't really see the for honor influence tbh.

Sorry I should have reread my post before hitting reply. I meant some of the moveslist derived from For Honor, but looked and performed nothing like it. I remember playing AC:O for the first time, and thinking to myself how similar the moves and animations were, then I made the connection.

 

[JTCx]

didn't they fixed a lot of things? i don't remember much about the game unfortunately.

I was not even that good so i probably didn't played the game as much as you.

I havnt really kept up but im sure they did fix some stuff alot of the problems are rooted deep into the core system which would need a overhaul. The games biggest problem imo comes down to framerate this needs to be 60fps. That would be a start and they can build from there. I hope this gets a next gen boost or another game in the future. I dont like Ubishit games but For Honor is definitely one i cant hate on since its fairly unique.

 

[M1chl]

You forgot that samurai game from Ubisoft....For Honor I think, fight there is essentialy having right posture.

 

[eyesabitdull]

Although if you try to attack an enemy without changing style the game will literally pause itself and tell you to change styles.

.....isnt that possible to be disabled?

I never checked, and left it as is as the game stops telling you those hints halfway through, but surely you can disable them no? o.o

 

[GymWolf]

I havnt really kept up but im sure they did fix some stuff alot of the problems are rooted deep into the core system which would need a overhaul. The games biggest problem imo comes down to framerate this needs to be 60fps. That would be a start and they can build from there. I hope this gets a next gen boost or another game in the future. I dont like Ubishit games but For Honor is definitely one i cant hate on since its fairly unique.

I played the game on pc at 60 frames, i can't even imagine stuff with technical combat at 30 fps...

 

[Tranquil]

.....isnt that possible to be disabled?

I never checked, and left it as is as the game stops telling you those hints halfway through, but surely you can disable them no? o.o

I don't know, it only happened to me a few times so I didn't check.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Some games have a "guard break" which is kind of what you are talking about, but Sekiro definitely sharpened the idea to perfection.

 

[GreyHorace]

I really think the combat in GoT is really good. I would also really struggle to compare to Sekiro, I think Sekiro has much better combat feeling overall, but GoT is much more stylish.

In Sekiro, it's almost a requirement to break postures, otherwise your just making your life that much harder.

In GoT, for the most part, it's optional. That left me much more room to explore and to do other stuff and improve not only the flow of the combat, but also the style. God I love Ghost of Tsushima.

I like that Sucker Punch gave you the freedom to tackle combat however you see fit. While you can definitely face enemies straight up like a samurai, it's so much more fun to destroy a platoon of Mongols using Ghost weapons and tactics. And nothing beats the feeling of luring a bunch of them to one area and then killing the leader with one swipe. After which you can scare the crap out of the rest of them using the Ghost Stance.

Some games have a "guard break" which is kind of what you are talking about, but Sekiro definitely sharpened the idea to perfection.

Yeah. I realize now that it's a system that's been used in fighting games for a number of years. But Sekiro was definitely the fist title I've seen to use it as a gameplay feature in a third person action game.

 

[cireza]

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

GreyHorace in Sekiro's favor, it is not just the posture-breaking but also the parrying system that makes it so delicious.

Attacking posture will quickly be met with a critical block followed by an enemy attack, which you can parry and then resume the posture attack. If posture was just something you slowly chipped at or something that prompted a QTE, I don't think it would've been as enjoyable. The flow of the combat between chipping at health, blocking, parrying, attacking posture, etc works really well.

 

[JTCx]

GreyHorace in Sekiro's favor, it is not just the posture-breaking but also the parrying system that makes it so delicious.

Attacking posture will quickly be met with a critical block followed by an enemy attack, which you can parry and then resume the posture attack. If posture was just something you slowly chipped at or something that prompted a QTE, I don't think it would've been as enjoyable. The flow of the combat between chipping at health, blocking, parrying, attacking posture, etc works really well.

Well said, sekiro is a different beast. Your defensive state is allowed to be turned into offense by letting the player ro continuously build posture damage by crit blocking and parrying.

 

[drotahorror]

That motherfucker hates hands.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Well said, sekiro is a different beast. Your defensive state is allowed to be turned into offense by letting the player ro continuously build posture damage by crit blocking and parrying.

I should've added it to the post you quoted, but jumping over sweeps and stomping their head like a goomba (or easymode... use Senpou leaping kick) was a lot of fun. And/or using the mikiri counter that The Cockatrice mentioned, and/or using firecrackers and/or shuriken etc etc are also valid posture-chipping strategies. Lots of ways for a player to lose posture but also lots of ways to damage posture, which makes it tough but fair.

 

[JTCx]

I should've added it to the post you quoted, but jumping over sweeps and stomping their head like a goomba (or easymode... use Senpou leaping kick) was a lot of fun. And/or using the mikiri counter that The Cockatrice mentioned, and/or using firecrackers and/or shuriken etc etc are also valid posture-chipping strategies. Lots of ways for a player to lose posture but also lots of ways to damage posture, which makes it tough but fair.

I forgot about the headstomping. Good lord that game is good. Bless miyazaki.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I forgot about the headstomping. Good lord that game is good. Bless miyazaki.

Talking about Sekiro just makes me wanna play more Sekiro.

 

[llLeonhart]

I like that Sucker Punch gave you the freedom to tackle combat however you see fit. While you can definitely face enemies straight up like a samurai, it's so much more fun to destroy a platoon of Mongols using Ghost weapons and tactics. And nothing beats the feeling of luring a bunch of them to one area and then killing the leader with one swipe. After which you can scare the crap out of the rest of them using the Ghost Stance.





Yeah. I realize now that it's a system that's been used in fighting games for a number of years. But Sekiro was definitely the fist title I've seen to use it as a gameplay feature in a third person action game.

Allow me to disagree.

Playing as a dishonorable ghost sucks.

Jokes aside, this is the first game where I have stealth available, yet I prefer to go in guns blazing. And it is not because the stealth is bad, or not fun, is because the combat is THAT good. Also it gives so much immersion to go in between both, as needed. I can't wait to play again on PS5 on Brutal.

Also, I was going to disagree with you sekiro, but then I read it again and is just the first game you personally saw.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Talking about Sekiro just makes me wanna play more Sekiro.

I gave Sekiro a 7.5 score and it's the only game around that average that I replayed entirely again and I honestly feel like I can do it again for the third time. The gameplay is so incredibly fun but everything else I didn't really enjoy much(story/atmosphere). I feel like Sekiro is in the same place Bloodlines is. Every time someone mentions it or talks about it, you just wanna play it despite their flaws.

 

[Dark Star]

Staggering enemies (usually bosses) with critical hits is wonderfully brutal in Bloodborne and Dark Souls as well. I haven't played Sekiro yet, so I don't know to what degree they are similar in combat, but it creates a lot more tension and feeling of progression/phases in a fight. Especially if the boss transforms after being staggered, very scary and intense.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Isn't "posture based" combat just an evolution of guard crush mechnics?

 

[INC]

Why I always liked MK: deception, and how you can switch stances

And the puzzle game was dope

 

[CrysisFreak]

Sekiro is KING

 

[Gandih42]

Jedi Fallen Order is posture based literally. Makes the lightsaber battles super intense and cinematic instead of flashy mindless spam of Jedi Knight Academy.

Yoooh can't believe someone would dunk on the gem that is Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. I love that games combat and everything else really.

That being said, the fact that Fallen Order takes some combat cures from Sekiro is very exciting to me. Looking forward to eventually playing it. I think posture systems in general are an awesome way to make health bars more immersive and less videogamey.

 

[GreyHorace]

GreyHorace in Sekiro's favor, it is not just the posture-breaking but also the parrying system that makes it so delicious.

Attacking posture will quickly be met with a critical block followed by an enemy attack, which you can parry and then resume the posture attack. If posture was just something you slowly chipped at or something that prompted a QTE, I don't think it would've been as enjoyable. The flow of the combat between chipping at health, blocking, parrying, attacking posture, etc works really well.

Parrying is such an essential part of Sekiro's combat. I realized that after getting my ass kicked repeatedly by one of the subbosses. Once I realized that deflecting his attacks would ebb away at his posture I handed him his ass on a plate.

It's the same with Ghost of Tsushima. Parrying opponents is the only way you can get them off balance so you can set them up for a heavy attack and break their posture.

Compare both games' combat to the The Witcher 3, and it's worlds apart. Parrying sucks in TW3 and the combat emphasizes more on Geralt dodging and using his Signs to kill enemies. I still love the game but the combat really needed a bit more work done on it.

 

[D.Final]

This strikes me as one of the most low key innovations we've had in this generation. In games featuring melee combat, we're sometimes forced to wail away at some high powered enemy who takes all your attacks like a goddamn sponge. Case in point (starts at 1:31):




But then some developers got creative and introduced the idea of breaking your enemy's posture and leaving them vulnerable to a killing blow. This concept was first introduced (as far as I know), by From Software in Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice:




And the recent Ghost of Tsushima by Sucker Punch has a similar system where you can stagger enemies with heavy attacks to break their guard:




Needless to say, I love this style of combat as it makes fighting enemies much less frustrating while not taking the challenge away. Have any other games implemented such a system? As far as I know only Sekiro and Ghost are the only games that have it.

But what do you Gaffers think of posture based combat?

Ghost of Tsushima is awesome in this sense