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LTTP: Tales of Bazo- uh Xillia

Spieler Eins

Member
Sep 18, 2011
12,153
1
530
Mutton. FRESH MUTTON.

Jude is the worst animu trope, but it was fun enough as my first HD Tales. What pissed me off late game were bosses spamming mystic artes, holy shit.

Xillia is a fine game with a lot of issues. It has one of the best plot twist moments in the series, IMO, when *HUGE SPOILERS*
the sky breaks and you discover there's another world.

They've already had that plot device a bunch of times before Xillia though.
 

Toth

Member
Jan 27, 2010
5,433
0
0
The whole (Spoiler for Xilia 2 as well as 1)
destroying the parallel worlds in Xilia 2 was rather disconcerting, especially when you see better versions of characters within actually enjoying their lives. I get where they were going with it but it makes the game so downright depressing as opposed to the positive tone of Xilia
.
 

PKrockin

Member
Sep 6, 2010
8,249
0
0
It's pretty good. The story is really standard Tales stuff I've seen a million times before but honestly I think the skits are far more entertaining and memorable than the story beats in this series. As long as the characters are likable those moments of interaction with each other like the skits and battle victory scenes will deliver. But mostly I play it for the battles which are addicting and fun as always despite not being as good as Graces.

The whole
destroying the parallel worlds in Xilia 2 was rather disconcerting, especially when you see better versions of characters within actually enjoying their lives. I get where they were going with it but it makes the game so downright depressing as opposed to the positive tone of Xilia
.
Dude, you should tag this as a Xillia 2 spoiler.
 
May 12, 2015
3,229
0
0
Iceland
The whole
destroying the parallel worlds in Xilia 2 was rather disconcerting, especially when you see better versions of characters within actually enjoying their lives. I get where they were going with it but it makes the game so downright depressing as opposed to the positive tone of Xilia
.

Being relentlessly bleak and heartbreaking was kind of Xillia 2's thing. I mean, by the end, (major ToX2 spoilers)
pretty much all of the new characters are dead. Maybe one or two get spared depending on which ending you get.
It's definitely a more bittersweet experience than ToX1, where everything seemed to always just kinda work out. You're not always doing the right thing in ToX2, and you gotta deal with the consequences.
 

Kasumin

Member
Feb 16, 2013
727
0
0
Xillia is a fine game with a lot of issues. It has one of the best plot twist moments in the series, IMO, when *HUGE SPOILERS*
the sky breaks and you discover there's another world.
It also has the
worst trope-character in the series in Alvin, as it's so transparent that he was written as as a traitor, to the point where his betrayals feel more like the writers had to uphold to his conceptualized "traitor" persona than his actions feeling genuine or even in character.

That whoosh noise is the point of Alvin's entire character and his character arc going over your head. The writers were well aware that
his betrayals were obvious
. That's not the point.

Xillia's my favorite in the series, but the game was screwed over by being rushed. It was pretty obviously meant to be a far more ambitious game, but the trend with Bamco lately as far as Tales of goes is to just push out a game every year no matter what. See: Zestiria PS3.

The sequel has the battle system they didn't have time to implement in the first game and one of the most blatant Gary Stu protagonists I've seen in a game. Xillia 2 is built around its main character. In fact, it nerfs some of the cast from the first game so you're more inclined to use the new main character. He's fun to play as, but I really resented the idea of one character being way better than the rest of the cast.
 

Sadist

Member
Feb 2, 2008
24,668
0
1,220
The Netherlands
i43.tinypic.com
So I completed it last night; that was... quick.

Everything after Milla's "death" is super rushed. Especially arriving at Elympios which feels like an afterthought. Everybody resolves their issues (it's okay Alvin, your constant flipping sides is all forgiven) and even the final big fights felt a bit underwhelming. What the hell at spamming the mystic artes. It doesn't sour my my enjoyment of the entire game, but man the ending is poorly done. Fo shame Bamco.
 

Parley

Banned
Dec 14, 2009
291
0
0
Atlanta
I finished this about 6 months ago and I really enjoyed it. The characters were fine and about on par with most tales games. I really dug the combat and the linking system which allowed for a lot of different combinations. I have xillia 2 which I will start soon.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Aug 26, 2013
20,811
0
0
www.vgo-online.com
The whole (Spoiler for Xilia 2 as well as 1)
destroying the parallel worlds in Xilia 2 was rather disconcerting, especially when you see better versions of characters within actually enjoying their lives. I get where they were going with it but it makes the game so downright depressing as opposed to the positive tone of Xilia
.

Being relentlessly bleak and heartbreaking was kind of Xillia 2's thing. I mean, by the end, (major ToX2 spoilers)
pretty much all of the new characters are dead. Maybe one or two get spared depending on which ending you get.
It's definitely a more bittersweet experience than ToX1, where everything seemed to always just kinda work out. You're not always doing the right thing in ToX2, and you gotta deal with the consequences.

See, that's the thing about ToX2. I keep telling people it's one of the most depressing JRPGs ever, and they don't understand where I'm coming from. Yeah,
shit happens
is a trope, and
"ha ha you foolish heroes were helping me, the ultimate villain, with my plan all along"
is a trope, but in Xillia 2,
basically shit happens as a direct consequence of Ludger's actions, and everything is choosing between two almost equally shitty outcomes. In short, basically you're the cause of a lot of misfortune, mandatory or not. And even when, halfway through, you realize what a messed up individual you are, you still have to play through the rest of the game. It's like the game is taunting you for basically shitting everything up. All the way from killing off new friends, rivals, lovers, to literally mass genocide of a race that just wants to survive being dealt a shitty hand of cards by fate. Oh and lets kill your own brother too. And kill your fake daughter (which I still personally headcanon as the real REAL ending, since it follows the precedent of all fractured dimension versions being 'mistakes' that weren't supposed to exist)
. Legit felt depressed for a few days after finishing the game. I personally thought it was more depressing than the end of NGE.
 

TheGreatLugia

Banned
May 3, 2013
2,207
0
0
See, that's the thing about ToX2. I keep telling people it's one of the most depressing JRPGs ever, and they don't understand where I'm coming from. Yeah,
shit happens
is a trope, and
"ha ha you foolish heroes were helping me, the ultimate villain, with my plan all along"
is a trope, but in Xillia 2,
basically shit happens as a direct consequence of Ludger's actions, and everything is choosing between two almost equally shitty outcomes. In short, basically you're the cause of a lot of misfortune, mandatory or not. And even when, halfway through, you realize what a messed up individual you are, you still have to play through the rest of the game. It's like the game is taunting you for basically shitting everything up. All the way from killing off new friends, rivals, lovers, to literally mass genocide of a race that just wants to survive being dealt a shitty hand of cards by fate. Oh and lets kill your own brother too. And kill your fake daughter (which I still personally headcanon as the real REAL ending, since it follows the precedent of all fractured dimension versions being 'mistakes' that weren't supposed to exist)
. Legit felt depressed for a few days after finishing the game. I personally thought it was more depressing than the end of NGE.
Mad props to you Falk.

You summed up Xillia 2 better than I can at the moment
though I do prefer the "good" ending.
I've enjoyed the stories in most Tales games I've played, but Xillia 2's plot just felt much more ambitious to me. I definitely have a fair amount of respect for the game.

As for Evangelion's ending, I found that to be more unintentionally funny than depressing.
 

bonkeng

Member
Nov 25, 2014
2,728
0
410
I've enjoyed 1 and 2 greatly.

The whole parallel world in 2 and seeing their alternate lives doing differently is nice although a bit sad, since you have to destroy that world shortly.

Not the best Tales, but definitely not the worst.
 
May 12, 2015
3,229
0
0
Iceland
So I completed it last night; that was... quick.

Everything after Milla's "death" is super rushed. Especially arriving at Elympios which feels like an afterthought. Everybody resolves their issues (it's okay Alvin, your constant flipping sides is all forgiven) and even the final big fights felt a bit underwhelming. What the hell at spamming the mystic artes. It doesn't sour my my enjoyment of the entire game, but man the ending is poorly done. Fo shame Bamco.

Yep, the ending kinda sucks and
Elympios
could just as well not have been there. The last act isn't great.

I guess Milla's story isn't that different from Jude's right?

It builds on what you saw in Jude's story and has a few alternate scenes, but I'd recommend waiting a while to play her side to avoid burning out. Definitely play the sequel, though.
 
Aug 16, 2012
10,018
5,241
1,130
31
North West, UK.
Don't worry Xillia 2 is better but also has problems.

The more I think about it since Vesperia the series has kinda gone to shit and yet I'll be buying Zestiria in a few weeks.
 

Kasumin

Member
Feb 16, 2013
727
0
0
See, that's the thing about ToX2. I keep telling people it's one of the most depressing JRPGs ever, and they don't understand where I'm coming from. Yeah,
shit happens
is a trope, and
"ha ha you foolish heroes were helping me, the ultimate villain, with my plan all along"
is a trope, but in Xillia 2,
basically shit happens as a direct consequence of Ludger's actions, and everything is choosing between two almost equally shitty outcomes. In short, basically you're the cause of a lot of misfortune, mandatory or not. And even when, halfway through, you realize what a messed up individual you are, you still have to play through the rest of the game. It's like the game is taunting you for basically shitting everything up. All the way from killing off new friends, rivals, lovers, to literally mass genocide of a race that just wants to survive being dealt a shitty hand of cards by fate. Oh and lets kill your own brother too. And kill your fake daughter (which I still personally headcanon as the real REAL ending, since it follows the precedent of all fractured dimension versions being 'mistakes' that weren't supposed to exist)
. Legit felt depressed for a few days after finishing the game. I personally thought it was more depressing than the end of NGE.

Is that really good writing, though? I didn't see Xillia 2's story as bad things happening as the result of choices. I saw it more as the writer of the game trying to prove to the player how hardcore and grimdark he was. There's a difference between a dark story filled with loss and a cheaply written story where characters are introduced
and then quickly killed off just for the sake of cheap drama.

The melodrama in Xillia 2 is so cheaply done and contrived. So many bad things happen in succession that my willing suspension of disbelief just could not keep up.
Alt!Milla is a great example of this. From the time she is introduced to the time she dies, she has absolutely no agency whatsoever. The game tries to frame her sacrifice as similar to Milla's in the first game, but that's utter BS.
She had no agency in that situation. She made a choice, sure, but she had no other choice anyway.

My problem with Xillia 2 is that it comes after the first Xillia. I think as its own game it could have been fine. But the tonal shift is way too dissonant coming after the first game. A major plot point toward the end of the first game
is not sacrificing one world for the sake of another
. Xillia 2 just throws this out the window completely. And while
alt!Milla
serves as a great reminder of the consequences of
destroying fractured dimensions
, she's
swiftly killed off and forgotten by pretty much everyone but Elle.

Grimdark and sad does not automatically equal good writing. Honestly, I think Xillia 2's writing is awfully juvenile. Especially with the
overpowered Gary Stu protagonist with super transformation powers because... why?
Also, why did the party
believe Bisley to begin with? What if he'd been lying?
Xillia 2 also robs the main party of a ton of agency compared to the first game
because they just throw up their hands and go, "Well, guess we'd better trust Bisley and do what he tells us."
Coming after the first game it makes no sense.

Xillia 2's story is a mess. It's objectively worst than the first game's
because it cheaply kills off potentially interesting characters without really developing them much. This applies to Rideaux and Julius as well. Not just alt!Milla.
The game was just a cash-in sequel in an attempt to re-use assets from Xillia and make up for the fact that they rushed the first game. Had they just finished the first Xillia, we'd have 1 really good game instead of 2 games with glaring issues. I think if Xillia's ambitions had been fully realized, it could have been even better than Vesperia.

After the problems with Zestiria in Japan, I'm just skipping Zestiria at release. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me and all that.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Aug 26, 2013
20,811
0
0
www.vgo-online.com
Is that really good writing, though?

I didn't say that. I said it was a departure from Tales games. But hey, if you're playing Tales games, best to have low expectations for the story to begin with.

I think Tales takes after anime in this regard too. The moment-to-moment interaction is more of a focus than trying to make sense of overall arcs. Alvin, as a very topical example w.r.t. this thread, becomes a lot less of a headscratcher if you don't keep trying to process why his motivations keep changing.

edit: And before you ask, no, I don't think Tales has ever had very deep, profound writing, ever. Maybe it was just more forgivable in the SNES and PSX era. Maybe we've just all grown up. But I still enjoy Tales games for what they are.

 

Kasumin

Member
Feb 16, 2013
727
0
0
I didn't say that. I said it was a departure from Tales games. But hey, if you're playing Tales games, best to have low expectations for the story to begin with.

I think Tales takes after anime in this regard too. The moment-to-moment interaction is more of a focus than trying to make sense of overall arcs. Alvin, as a very topical example w.r.t. this thread, becomes a lot less of a headscratcher if you don't keep trying to process why his motivations keep changing.

edit: And before you ask, no, I don't think Tales has ever had very deep, profound writing, ever. Maybe it was just more forgivable in the SNES and PSX era. Maybe we've just all grown up. But I still enjoy Tales games for what they are.


It was definitely a departure. I just didn't appreciate the major departure plot-wise happening in a game that was a sequel. Completely ruined the world building of the first Xillia.

Low expectations for the story, I'll agree with. But Xillia actually surprised me. It definitely had some darker elements than other games int he series. Alvin's background being one of them. And Alvin's motivations never really change. He was always after the same goals,
he just tries to improvise as his plans fail one after the other. His goal was always to get home with his mother alive. After she dies and then after Milla dies, he tries for a last ditch effort to just get home in any way possible, thus stupidly taking Muzét's offer.

It's because I really liked Xillia's worldbuilding (which unfortunately a lot of is shunted into background material in books Bamco wants you to pay for) that Xillia 2 frustrates me so much. I enjoy Tales games for what they are, as well, but rushing the 15th anniversary title and then releasing a cash-in sequel and then rushing the 20th anniversary title is just the last straw for me.

Xillia 2 is depressing, but there's good depressing and there's cheaply done depressing. Xillia 2's story felt like fanfiction after playing the first game. Especially given how Ludger was a stupidly over-powered self-insert.
 

Kasumin

Member
Feb 16, 2013
727
0
0
That's fair. The trend in general seems to be that JRPG sequels are just... not that great. FFX-2 is also terribly tonal dissonant from the first game. But even that game has an excuse for it,
Sin being gone and Spira's reaction to the idea of an eternal Calm.

I'm okay with FFIV The After Years, though. Since in reality it came out 17 years later and in canon it's 17 years later. The story is whacky, but I get that a lot of the whackiness were "wink wink nudge nudge" moments to the original game.

Xillia 2, on the other hand, feels like Chrono Cross to me.
Especially with the pointlessly killing off characters
for DRAMA!!!!! Not to say that Chrono Cross was a bad game, either. I just disliked it as a sequel to Chrono Trigger.
 

psynergylover

Member
Apr 23, 2015
5,470
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320
Characters were horrible especially Gaius, can't believe
the wannabe Sasuke doesn't even die. Everyone admired him, even Jude, for stuff we didn't see him do. Milla showed him the err in his ways and he the manchild that he is tries to become god. He's so conceited any power he can't wield has to be uncontrollable. Maybe if everyone wasn't so caught up in crawling up his behind he might have been a little more humble.

Combat was great, played as Jude, though I didn't like the linking mechanic.

Didn't bother picking up the sequel.

agreed on the Giaus part but they somewhat redeem his character in Xillia 2, (he's the best one to pair Ludger)

OT: the combat was great a close 2nd to Graces F

it pains that BN still hasn't took what made vesperia look so good, other than Fennmont, Nia Khera, and maybe Xian du eveything else looks bland specailly the open world fields

Alvins
character was so predictable it was only matter of when then why he betrayed them, that part when he had demoralized Jude at gun point was fuckin nuts though

I never got Jude's blind devotion to Millia; and poor Leia, Jude can't take a hint or doesn't want to -_-.... and it doesn't get any better in the sequel....she should just get with Alvin and let Jude whack off to spirts

I would recommend getting Xillia 2 after beating the first, the characters developed pretty well...just prepare yourself for some heavy shit that happens in the sequel
 
Apr 9, 2015
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agreed on the Giaus part but they somewhat redeem his character in Xillia 2, (he's the best one to pair Ludger)

Some people say Sasuke redeemed himself but to me he was and still is a little shit and he literally tried to murder
his future wife, like come on you don't marry a guy that tried to stab you.
Manga logic.

On a serious note I was too pissed off at the end and got kinda tired of the game. Also the only game that's gonna make me dedust my PS3 is Persona 5.