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Lttp: Star Wars Episodes I-VIII + Rogue One

Spoilers below, in case there's still someone who hasn't watched the Star Wars films (which I doubt).

Curiously enough I never fully watched the Star Wars films before, though I was aware of many scenes as well as the major story beats and memes. So there was zero nostalgia involved.

And SW fans, please don't rip me to shreds for saying something you disagree with. Also, I'm writing from memory, so I might not be entirely correct in what I say.

First of all, one thing that I consistently observed throughout all episodes is that every time I think the alien designs reached the peak of ugliness and non-functionality, some disgusting creatures appears. What's the point of having an absurdly long neck, multiple eyes, or two heads sharing one body? So many of these aliens seem like they're suffering in their bodies. In Rogue One there's one that has fucking testicles on the chin. Wtf were they thinking.

Anyway, here are my jumbled thoughts.

Episode I: The Phantom Menace. A meh movie, surely the weakest one among episodes I to VI. Jar Jar was annoying and kid Anakin piloting that thing with such skill made me suspend my disbelief. I know he's supposed to be a prodigy, the Chosen One bla bla, but still. The political/economical stuff was a chore to watch, and I usually love that stuff in stories. Oh and it's a shame Darth Maul only appear for like ten minutes in this entire trilogy, I liked his design.

Episode II: Attack of the Clones. I was surprised by how much of an improvement this was over the first film. I don't care what fans think, I enjoyed it a lot. Sure, some dialogues are dorky and the pacing is slow at times. But l really liked the dynamics between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and how the Padawan still respects and obeys his master on more than one occasion despite not seeing eye to eye with him. I also enjoyed all the different places they travelled to, it adds to the epic scale of the setting. The fights are better than in the original trilogy too. Also, good thing Jar Jar is no longer part of the main cast, I guess they listened to the criticism around him.

Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Not the most believable writing, okay, but I loved how the story flowed until the conclusion which was awesome. The last two fights, Anakin vs Obi-Wan and Yoda vs Palpatine were cool af. It's just cringey how goofy Palpatine looks and laughs. And of course, it ends with the hilarious "NOOOOOOO!". All in all the prequel trilogy surpassed my expectations after hearing people talking shit about it for so long.

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story. Holy shit I didn't expect this film to be this good?! The only thing I thought could have been done better is the characterization which is paper-thin. Aside from that... I'm not sure why I liked Jyn so much more than Rey, regardless of the fact that I find the actress of the former much more beautiful than the latter. Maybe it has to do with Jyn not escalating from a random person to an undefeatable warrior in a matter of what, days? She is alreayd an exAnyway, I liked the cast and even the aliens weren't too jarring aside from the one with the testicles on his chin. The robot character looks like he would perfectly fit in Nier Automata, and I liked him A LOT. Same goes for the other characters even if they didn't have a lot of screentime. Shout out to Donnie Yen for being awesome just by being present. The space battles were jubilatory and the whole ending sequence was gut-wrenching. I even found myself about to shed a tear when Leia appeared ?! Rogue One really took me by surprise. The more serious tone made and lack of goofy shit it go from decent to amazing.

Episode IV: A New Hope. Classic stuff. No wonder it's iconic. The hyperdrive effect never gets old. The simplicity of the characters must have something to do with how popular they are. I can see Balthier in Han Solo. I also fully realize how much influenced by Star Wars FF XII is. Darth Vader owns every scene he's in and his voice is amazing. I loved how the first confrontation between him and Luke isn'ta saber duel, but a dog fight. It's not often that you see heroes and villains face off this way. Why isn't an Ace Combat movie a thing yet? Special effects and fight choreography didn't age gracefully though, but I totally see how fantastic the former were for their time.

Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. Great follow up that expands on the established setting. The snow planet sequence was excellent. I was suprised by how much the special effects improved. Surprisingly Yoda wasn't present so much. Why the fuck is he so ugly? Even Shiryu's old master (from Saint Seiya) isn't as painful to look at. Anyway, Boba Fett was cool. Third act is again deftly crafted.

Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. Luke in his black outfit is slick af. But fuck Jaba hurts my eyes whenever he's on screen. The hover bike chase in the forest was incredible. So was Darth Vader's change of heart. Palpatine is cartoony as hell and the weakest character in the cast. While not every character needs to be deep and thoroughly fleshed out, dialogue writing that isn't cartoonish can go a long way. Whatever. The last scene with Vader packed a good deal of emotions. Overall a pretty satisfying conclusion to the original trilogy.

Episode VII: The Force Awakens. I watched this one in the theaters when it came, smh right now. If I knew I would've gone to Rogue One instead. Why is there a First Order again? The sequel trilogy renders the conclusion of the original one null. The rebellion won! No wait, a few decades later they're back to square one with empire 2.0. The ship chases and battles are good. The rest is meh. Upon removing his Storm Trooper outfit, Finn becomes just another random person. They could've fleshed out his status of deserter more, but even in the subsequent film no one seems to care that he was with the Empire. Kylo Ren is cool, I like the actor. The scene where he stops the beam shot from the gun is very well thought. Too bad he doesn't have the charisma and presence of Darth Vader. Of course it was near impossible to achieve. Rey is the most boring protagonist I can think of. Moving on.

Episode VIII: The Last Jedi. What a fucking mess. Visually good, but the storytelling has me scratching my head. Rey didn't even train with Luke. I hated the subversion for subversion's sake. It felt disrespectful to Luke's character. Wait Imma milk a weird alien animal coz why the fuck not. But hey, at least the crystal creatures are cool. And why the fuck is Snoke dressed in an evening gown? His guards look cool thought. Ben killing him is the best moment of the entire film. Emo Vader Junior's anguish is fun to watch.

Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker. ??? Haven't watched it yet. I have zero hope, let alone hype for it.
 

Weiji

Banned
I pretty much agree outside of rogue one.

The hacky kiss scene at the end of the movie makes no sense. This guy just tried to kill your dad girl.

I think with almost all of these movies there are standout beautiful moments that capture the magic of the first 2 films, but the overall scope of the movie is sloppy, with no coherent vision or thoughtful execution.

I guess what I’m saying is that even in a series with space magic around to solve all your problems the movies manage to not make sense. Which is pretty sad, you’d think a script with a logical plot wouldn’t be hard to come by...
 

eot

Banned
Which order did you watch them in? Don't want to turn this thread into an argument about that, but I'm curious.

I like Rogue One too. There are things you can pick apart about it, but it still flows well and is beautiful to look at.

What's your thought about Empire being the best movie out of the first three (and six)?
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Ill partake

EP 1: Not that bad, decent movie. Anakin should of been older, but Liam kicks ass and Darth Maul is uber cool. Has that Star Wars feel to it.

EP 2: Worst of the 3. Disagree with OP. Special effects are horrible, plot is complete nonsene. Anakin and Padame have negative chemistry. The only cool parts are with Obi Wan, whose entire point ends up being a useless mcguffin chase that never really plays out.

EP 3: Probably the best out of the prequels, or tied with EP1 but still suffers from a lot of the same bad acting and plot points. Anakins turn is really stupid. This could of been a stand alone film and really the first 2 were unnecessary. If this would of been EP 1 it would have been much better.

RO: Not bad but kinda bland and forgettable. It did shoe horn itself into the universe pretty well, I actually liked seeing Peter Cushing come back from the dead. Vader was cool and the ending was a different take on what we are used to. This was actually a better Force Awakes than Force Awakens. Jyn better than Rey, Cassian was a better Finn/Poe than Finn/Poe were trying to be. Even Donny Yen was a better Luke than Luke. And Vader was more imposing than Palps/Snoke/Kylo even with his limited screen time.

EP 4: a Classic and deserves every bit of ink of praise it gets. Good fun movie, great effects for the time, classic story, classic characters everything just works. Its easy to see why the movie changed the industry and became so huge

EP 5: another classic that improves on the first. Expands the lore, great twist that would put M Night to shame. Special effects even better, Vader even better. Yoda had a ton of wisdom. Luke/Leia/Han all took a big step forward. Its slightly darker tone works in its favor/

EP 6: Great way to end the series. Jabba part at the begining is a ton of fun. Luke is kick ass. Ending is great. Ewoks are bleh but in reality when you compare it to how the rest of the series turned out, I take Ewoks any day of the week and twice on sundays. Ending confrontation and Vaders redemption make the entire movie worthwhile.

TFA: Fun reboot/re imagining, but lots of flaws and all sizzle with no steak. Since you brought up Finn, Finn should of been played like Arnie from twins. He basically should of been a no nonsense military guy who ends up being a fish out of water. So he would be kinda like Drax where he doesn't understand the outside world. Thats where the comedy would come from his character, instead of being a meek scardy cat. Rey should of been a male character. Nothing against her, but when your movie is a power fantasy for young boys, making your main character for 3 movies a mary sue who has everything handed to her isn't going to work.

TLJ: Horrible crap killed Star Wars dead. Boring movie about a slow space chase. Finn and Poe get useless side quests and are made out to look like iditos. RJ and KK shoved in girl power and da enviroment into the movie. Holdo and Rose are worse than Jar Jar. At least Jar Jar was written as an idiot and someone to laugh at. Basically every move made in the movie was the wrong one

TROS: Bad movie that moves to fast and throws so much at you that you don't even realize how bad it is. It was basically eye roll after eye roll for me as soon as the 1000 ships with deathstar lasers on them showed up. Basically every cliche and set piece from every blockbuster over the last 20 years shoved into this movie with JJ saying I will make the most craziest 3rd act ever that no one will top. And topped it off by shitting all over the OG with Rey's final line at the end.

Solo: Not sure where this goes but it was ok. If it didn't have to deal with the star wars baggage and was called Mike's space crime adventures it would be seen as a decent enough film. Nothing amazing but nothing horrible.

Overall OG's were great. Prequels were too focused on special effects and stretching out 1 movie into 3. Disney's out put has been on a steady decline and not worthy of the star wars name.
 
Which order did you watch them in? Don't want to turn this thread into an argument about that, but I'm curious.

I like Rogue One too. There are things you can pick apart about it, but it still flows well and is beautiful to look at.

What's your thought about Empire being the best movie out of the first three (and six)?

original trilogy -> prequels -> sequels (not counting IX) -> RO

I don't have much to say about Empire Strikes Back, I feel the first three movies are very close to each other and can't really pick a favorite. I guess the Vader reveal elevates it above the other two for most people.

cryptoadam cryptoadam Holy shit I completely forgot about Finn's sidequest and Rose. Goes to show how forgettable that mess was. I like the way you suggested Finn should have been written. The idea of a deserter rejected by both sides has a lot of potential.

Funnily enough, I think you're right with your criticism of the prequels, but I still found them enjoyable in a "I'll overlook the obvious flaws" kind of sense.
 
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eot

Banned
I don't have much to say about Empire Strikes Back, I feel the first three movies are very close to each other and can't really pick a favorite. I guess the Vader reveal elevates it above the other two for most people.
For me it's not so much the reveal, I think it's a good movie on its own and I love the darker tone.
Some of the cinematography is A-tier as well, especially the Vader fight.

 

cryptoadam

Banned
original trilogy -> prequels -> sequels (not counting IX) -> RO

I don't have much to say about Empire Strikes Back, I feel the first three movies are very close to each other and can't really pick a favorite. I guess the Vader reveal elevates it above the other two for most people.

cryptoadam cryptoadam Holy shit I completely forgot about Finn's sidequest and Rose. Goes to show how forgettable that mess was. I like the way you suggested Finn should have been written. The idea of a deserter rejected by both sides has a lot of potential.

Funnily enough, I think you're right with your criticism of the prequels, but I still found them enjoyable in a "I'll overlook the obvious flaws" kind of sense.

there fun in a turn your brain off way and if you just avoid all the Anakin stuff. Really the Anakin stuff drags the prequels down. The rest isn't really that bad. Obi Wan and Qui Qon are petty good, Mace is decent enough. The other planets we see are cool. Palpatine is actually a pretty decent villian and his story from Senator to Emperor is the best part of the trilogy.

And they have been retroactivly been made better thanks to the ST.

Finn just would of worked as a fish out of water who is always serious. Since he only knows the first order and being a brainwashed soldier he should of been a guy who is really strict and doesn't understand the nuances of humanity. Instead Finn is essentially a non CGI Jar Jar.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
For me it's not so much the reveal, I think it's a good movie on its own and I love the darker tone.
Some of the cinematography is A-tier as well, especially the Vader fight.

Empire is a legit great movie. this year will be the 40th anniversary. kinda of been toying around with doing a huge thread to celebrate that...
Boba Fett was cool
yes he was. i hear so much revisionist history that he was never cool. he was cool as hell in ESB. outsmarted Solo who himself just outsmarted the Empire. deal with Vader almost as an equal. had a action packed shootout with Luke as he infiltrates Cloud City. he's a pretty major character in that second film, he has a huge impact on the story.
 
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No shit, i loved this. Seeing a series through the relatively fresh eyes of another is great.

For the life of me i can't remember Luke fighting Vader in ep 4, i think that was 5 brah.

In general i agree with you, which is surprising since i formulated my opinions on the original trilogy as like a 7 year old.. the only thing I'm not with you in is the Emperor being cheesy.. i totally bought in to him. Again, not surprising as i was a mere waif at't time.

I've said this recently on this forum and I'll say it again with the growing sense that this is going to be my position going forward: after episode 6 it was Kyle Katarn working to clear away the Imperial Remnant and Luke founding a huge Jedi academy in a kind of Aztec looking setting. The 3 movies after episode 6 have been, in my mind, retconned.
 
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#Phonepunk#

Banned
its cool how that worked out, the film trilogy kind of slowly builds to a Luke-Vader confrontation. he's not fighting him right away. Luke isn't even in the same room as Vader for the entire first movie. they tease it 2/3 through Empire as well. it allows the audience to anticipate the battle, build it up, so the epicness is most potent.

when i was a little kid i saw these movies in the theater but was really young. i rewatched them again when i was 10-11 or so, and vaguely remembered it all, but not quite the order. it was interesting to see that Luke and Vader didn't have a lightsaber duel until Empire. that first movie builds up hype for that final encounter, Luke first sees Vader cutting down Obi Wan in the duel from afar. at the end of the movie, Vader is the last boss before he saves the day, but they are still in different ships. Luke is dogfighting Vader in a TIE and Han Solo has to swoop in to save him. Empire flips that dynamic, with Luke trying to swoop in to save Han from Vader. it rhymes yo.
 
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eot

Banned
Rouge One is the best SW film since ESB and the 3rd best film in the series. It is the best Disney might ever do... Rebels being right up there with it.

The only flaw imo is CGI Leia
I re-watched it tonight because of this thread and I agree, though I didn't mind CGI Leia (aside from the fact that it doesn't make sense why she's there). Tarkin, on the other hand, looks a bit off.

While the space battle is up there with the better ones I don't think it beats out RotJ, which is not only better told (we see it from the perspective of characters we know) but actually has a story of its own. The battle in RO is in large part a diversion, and the characters we know are all on the ground. It looks nice, but isn't as cohesive. Still shits on the sequel trilogy though.
 

Grinchy

Banned
You are not alone in thinking Ep 2 was better than Ep 1. On my recent re-watch, I was kinda shocked to still be reading the opposite, because that first one is incredibly bad.

It's also funny how the cheap look of the prequels is something you almost have to force yourself through a little bit before it feels more normal. Probably another reason Ep 2 feels better than Ep 1, because your brain has adjusted to the mediocrity.

If you just take any random scene from the prequels and watch them after time has passed, your brain can barely believe how bad it all looks.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
prequels look amazing. visual design on the highest level.

the problem is, George Lucas invented the modern CGI style with these movies. so he has to deal with the early problems. early pioneers always suffer. for that reason AOTC was filmed in a smaller resolution than ROTS. the CGI looks worse than the tv show because here they are inventing that technology that will, years later, be used to make the show. this came first. you have to understand how history works, how technology develops. you have to take it in historical context, even though everyone is obsessed with presentism these days.

TPM was filmed on film, with a large number of practical sets and locations. all the prequel films have incredible art design, with tons of cool stuff too look at, almost too much. his vision was hyper baroque sci fi, and he used flat lighting in order to give detail to all of it. he wants you to take it all in. it "looks bad" because the flat lighting is not as complementary.

this is why CGI Leia fails, if it was just her reflection or in the shadows, it could have been pulled off. flat lighting draws too much attention. George didn't care, he just wanted people to see everything & be immersed. the new stuff uses a lot of dark visuals, it's a more pretigue tv look. lots of shaky cams and whip pans, less painterly shots. darker, more realistic lighting. Solo is almost unreasonably darkly lit. the prequels look unlike any other movies ever made. they are special for that.
 
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ExpandKong

Banned
One thing* I liked about Episode 8 was the part at the beginning where Snoke makes fun of Kylo Ren's totally-OC-don't-steal-please Vader ripoff schtick. Doing something unexpected could've been great after the very safe, very derivative TFA, but what we got was...unfortunate.

One thing* I liked about Episode 9 was the meta jabs JJ took at RJ and TLJ.

*read: THE one thing
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
for me all the meta stuff ruined the whole experience. 100% pulled me out of the films. Luke brushing his shoulder off felt like i was watching a Funny Or Die skit.
 
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Now you need to watch the Plinkett reviews OP
Ha, the good old times where videos were cut in parts of 10 minutes. Now I'm feeling old haha.
for me all the meta stuff ruined the whole experience. 100% pulled me out of the films. Luke brushing his shoulder off felt like i was watching a Funny Or Die skit.
I forgot that moment, it broke the tone of the scene. Totally unneeded and cringey as hell.
 
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