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LTTP: Kena: Bridge of Spirits - Small design decisions affect the game greatly.

RCU005

Member
Plase no open spoilers, I haven't finished the game!. Thank you!

I got the game on sale this holiday and I was very excited to play it. I went in blind other than the first two trailers released.
I got started and right from the beginning I loved the art style and concept. Visually it's a beautiful game, but then the gameplay.

Kena feels like a modernized PS2 game, which it's not really a bad thing. I know this is made by an indie development studio, and for that they did a great job for the most part. Overall, the game could've been amazing but there are many small details that bring it down so much.

First, the most important one: This game does not have proper checkpoint placement! Whoever designed and decided to put the checkpoints before cutscenes or even before a hoard of enemies before a boss fight, etc deserves to be fired!. It's not the 90s and we are not playing on NES or SNES where there were no save states. Also, I don't believe the target audience of this game is meant to have punishable checkpoints. If you are going to design a game where people will have a hard time and will have to repeat over and over, put them right back into the action!

The difficulty: Really? Did anyone watching the reveal and trailers imagine that this game was going to be a Souls-like wannabe? Did the game really need to be this hard? Again, who is the target audience for this game? With that said, I think that these little design choices are more contributing to the difficulty than the actual challenge. It gets more frustrating that difficult.

The combat: The combat feels incomplete. The skill tree should be bigger, it's like they stopped at the "prototype" phase, whether it's for time, budget or whatever reason. However, it does have potential. Yet again, small design choices make this really bad. The worst of all it's the parry. I bet 99% of people playing this game, don't know the parrying timing. It's just so badly designed. Then, when or if you get it right, it does like a micro-cutscene or something that throws you off. There are many games with satisfying parrying, why make it like this? Then, another bad decision was that there are no warning of off-screen attacks at all. This game has the recipe for an amazing combat, but it was severely undercooked.

Using the bow is satisfying but the game puts you into some places where it's hard to see the aiming reticle. The bomb is satisfying when it explodes, but when aiming and throwing feels off. It's the little details.

Exploration: The map is big but it's not like open world. I have no issues with the overall exploration except for the fact that there's no hint system for collectibles. Some are very well hidden and it becomes a chore more than anything. The mask should help finding them, but it's pretty much useless since you need to be practically 1 step away for it to show something. Swimming is very slow, why?

Collectibles: Useless! They should've made hats have some stats that help you with exploration and combat. The more Rot you have the bigger the effect. So you would need to decide how many hats you of each type you put on them.

Story: Haven't finished the game (please no spoilers) I just got a third mask. I am liking it. I actually wish they made this into a movie, I think it would work. What I don't like yet again it's a small design choice. Why use black bars for cutscenes? They break the cinematic effect, even though, ironically, they probably put them for that reason.

I have gotten angry trying to defeat bosses, and annoyed trying to find rots and collectibles. This is not a good sign for this kind of game. This should've been more like Ratchet and Clank game. A feel good (sad) game that everyone can enjoy but it's still challenging. The game came out in 2021 and I already feel like it totally needs a remake! Not graphically obviously, but definitely in gameplay mechanics and design choices.

I don't know if this will get a sequel (since I haven't finished it), but developers totally need to have a chance to polish this game. I liked the characters, the concept, the art style, and the music. So hopefully it expands. It's too bad the game is plagued with little stuff that ruins the experience in many occasions. The game could've been an 9 or 10, but with all this overall, I wouldn't give it past 7.
 

Fahdis

Member
Plase no open spoilers, I haven't finished the game!. Thank you!

I got the game on sale this holiday and I was very excited to play it. I went in blind other than the first two trailers released.
I got started and right from the beginning I loved the art style and concept. Visually it's a beautiful game, but then the gameplay.

Kena feels like a modernized PS2 game, which it's not really a bad thing. I know this is made by an indie development studio, and for that they did a great job for the most part. Overall, the game could've been amazing but there are many small details that bring it down so much.

First, the most important one: This game does not have proper checkpoint placement! Whoever designed and decided to put the checkpoints before cutscenes or even before a hoard of enemies before a boss fight, etc deserves to be fired!. It's not the 90s and we are not playing on NES or SNES where there were no save states. Also, I don't believe the target audience of this game is meant to have punishable checkpoints. If you are going to design a game where people will have a hard time and will have to repeat over and over, put them right back into the action!

The difficulty: Really? Did anyone watching the reveal and trailers imagine that this game was going to be a Souls-like wannabe? Did the game really need to be this hard? Again, who is the target audience for this game? With that said, I think that these little design choices are more contributing to the difficulty than the actual challenge. It gets more frustrating that difficult.

The combat: The combat feels incomplete. The skill tree should be bigger, it's like they stopped at the "prototype" phase, whether it's for time, budget or whatever reason. However, it does have potential. Yet again, small design choices make this really bad. The worst of all it's the parry. I bet 99% of people playing this game, don't know the parrying timing. It's just so badly designed. Then, when or if you get it right, it does like a micro-cutscene or something that throws you off. There are many games with satisfying parrying, why make it like this? Then, another bad decision was that there are no warning of off-screen attacks at all. This game has the recipe for an amazing combat, but it was severely undercooked.

Using the bow is satisfying but the game puts you into some places where it's hard to see the aiming reticle. The bomb is satisfying when it explodes, but when aiming and throwing feels off. It's the little details.

Exploration: The map is big but it's not like open world. I have no issues with the overall exploration except for the fact that there's no hint system for collectibles. Some are very well hidden and it becomes a chore more than anything. The mask should help finding them, but it's pretty much useless since you need to be practically 1 step away for it to show something. Swimming is very slow, why?

Collectibles: Useless! They should've made hats have some stats that help you with exploration and combat. The more Rot you have the bigger the effect. So you would need to decide how many hats you of each type you put on them.

Story: Haven't finished the game (please no spoilers) I just got a third mask. I am liking it. I actually wish they made this into a movie, I think it would work. What I don't like yet again it's a small design choice. Why use black bars for cutscenes? They break the cinematic effect, even though, ironically, they probably put them for that reason.

I have gotten angry trying to defeat bosses, and annoyed trying to find rots and collectibles. This is not a good sign for this kind of game. This should've been more like Ratchet and Clank game. A feel good (sad) game that everyone can enjoy but it's still challenging. The game came out in 2021 and I already feel like it totally needs a remake! Not graphically obviously, but definitely in gameplay mechanics and design choices.

I don't know if this will get a sequel (since I haven't finished it), but developers totally need to have a chance to polish this game. I liked the characters, the concept, the art style, and the music. So hopefully it expands. It's too bad the game is plagued with little stuff that ruins the experience in many occasions. The game could've been an 9 or 10, but with all this overall, I wouldn't give it past 7.

Solutions:
1) All of this trash you mentioned could have been mitigated if you just lowered the difficulty for your first run.
2) Collectibles in every game are garbage. Only you haven't unlocked the outfits and gemstones that help to some degree and for a second run.
3) This is supposed to be a story rich indie game, take it for what it is.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
The gameplay always looked awful to me which is why I never bought it. I think I would've bought it if it had made launch period, which it didn't. Fell off the radar, nothing about bar the visual style looked appealing to me. Might try it one day when it hits Plus.
 
Plase no open spoilers, I haven't finished the game!. Thank you!

I got the game on sale this holiday and I was very excited to play it. I went in blind other than the first two trailers released.
I got started and right from the beginning I loved the art style and concept. Visually it's a beautiful game, but then the gameplay.

Kena feels like a modernized PS2 game, which it's not really a bad thing. I know this is made by an indie development studio, and for that they did a great job for the most part. Overall, the game could've been amazing but there are many small details that bring it down so much.

First, the most important one: This game does not have proper checkpoint placement! Whoever designed and decided to put the checkpoints before cutscenes or even before a hoard of enemies before a boss fight, etc deserves to be fired!. It's not the 90s and we are not playing on NES or SNES where there were no save states. Also, I don't believe the target audience of this game is meant to have punishable checkpoints. If you are going to design a game where people will have a hard time and will have to repeat over and over, put them right back into the action!

The difficulty: Really? Did anyone watching the reveal and trailers imagine that this game was going to be a Souls-like wannabe? Did the game really need to be this hard? Again, who is the target audience for this game? With that said, I think that these little design choices are more contributing to the difficulty than the actual challenge. It gets more frustrating that difficult.

The combat: The combat feels incomplete. The skill tree should be bigger, it's like they stopped at the "prototype" phase, whether it's for time, budget or whatever reason. However, it does have potential. Yet again, small design choices make this really bad. The worst of all it's the parry. I bet 99% of people playing this game, don't know the parrying timing. It's just so badly designed. Then, when or if you get it right, it does like a micro-cutscene or something that throws you off. There are many games with satisfying parrying, why make it like this? Then, another bad decision was that there are no warning of off-screen attacks at all. This game has the recipe for an amazing combat, but it was severely undercooked.

Using the bow is satisfying but the game puts you into some places where it's hard to see the aiming reticle. The bomb is satisfying when it explodes, but when aiming and throwing feels off. It's the little details.

Exploration: The map is big but it's not like open world. I have no issues with the overall exploration except for the fact that there's no hint system for collectibles. Some are very well hidden and it becomes a chore more than anything. The mask should help finding them, but it's pretty much useless since you need to be practically 1 step away for it to show something. Swimming is very slow, why?

Collectibles: Useless! They should've made hats have some stats that help you with exploration and combat. The more Rot you have the bigger the effect. So you would need to decide how many hats you of each type you put on them.

Story: Haven't finished the game (please no spoilers) I just got a third mask. I am liking it. I actually wish they made this into a movie, I think it would work. What I don't like yet again it's a small design choice. Why use black bars for cutscenes? They break the cinematic effect, even though, ironically, they probably put them for that reason.

I have gotten angry trying to defeat bosses, and annoyed trying to find rots and collectibles. This is not a good sign for this kind of game. This should've been more like Ratchet and Clank game. A feel good (sad) game that everyone can enjoy but it's still challenging. The game came out in 2021 and I already feel like it totally needs a remake! Not graphically obviously, but definitely in gameplay mechanics and design choices.

I don't know if this will get a sequel (since I haven't finished it), but developers totally need to have a chance to polish this game. I liked the characters, the concept, the art style, and the music. So hopefully it expands. It's too bad the game is plagued with little stuff that ruins the experience in many occasions. The game could've been an 9 or 10, but with all this overall, I wouldn't give it past 7.
You are 100% on point. These could be my own words.
 

BabyYoda

Banned
Agree with most of your points tbh, still enjoyed the game a bunch.

My biggest gripe (and I had a few I can tell you) was them forcing in "The Message" though, I really wish they'd stop targeting kids with that crap, they're confused enough as it is.

Gorgeous game though and I love Souls likes, so...definite room for improvement with a potential sequel.
 

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
Difficulty spikes at the bosses were quite insane but aside from that I actually enjoyed the game quite a lot. Really does give these cool PS2 game vibes. Wish more devs would makes game like it.
 
I just played through this that the checkpointing was annoying but the instant loading on ps5 softened the blow.

Overall enjoyed it. PLayed on the second hardest difficulty it feels tuned on this difficulty actually.

Not sure if I should warn you or not about the final boss as you don't want to be spoiled...
 

Orta

Banned
I was genuinely going to buy a SX for this game prior to it being released. It looked so up my street I would have thought nothing of splashing out on a new console just for it, something I've done several times in the past. The reviews though decent certainly didn't scream system seller so I bought it through the Epic (spit) store.

It was one of the blandest games I played in years. There was nothing really wrong with it but there was nothing that jumped out at me either. Very disappointing. I didn't bother completing it
 
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kizito

Member
It was not as much difficulty spikes as very bad game design. I remember a boss spawning indefinitely mobs to bother you, who the hell thought it was a great idea ? Several team members need to lose their jobs in order to understand.
 

Doom85

Member
Shoulder Shrug GIF


I didn’t get around to finishing it myself, but the hours I put into it I really enjoyed. The team was like fifteen people, I wasn’t going in expecting a game with detail like this to be 15+ hours long even or for that matter to have a vast amount of skill upgrades. Don’t really remember having an issue with how combat felt or the difficulty. And calm down, OP, no one deserves to be fired over a checkpoint system you didn’t care for.

Also, the Ratchet and Clank comparison is extremely unfair, you’re comparing a major development team like Insomniac who’s had around 15 years working on the R&C IP to a small indie team like this working on a brand new IP for them?

Will Smith Come On Man GIF by Bad Boys For Life
 

Quasicat

Member
The game was buggy as hell at launch (on PS4) and I got stuck at this checkpoint with no other saves available:



I restarted it recently on PS5 and they fixed a bunch of issues. Especially the camera constantly looking up as you run forward. It’s a rather enjoyable game…with difficulty spikes at the bosses.
I’m still rather enjoying it on Story mode.
 

mogor

Member
Have to disagree, I really loved the game. Yes, it was hard as fuck and some things could've been done better, e.g. first boss' grab attack dodge was completely borked. Aside from minor stuff, this game was right up my alley and I enjoyed it immensely. I think it's interesting that people felt misled by its aesthetics, why shouldn't there be a cute-fun-looking game that is really hard? I especially liked that the game wasn't padded with nonsense filler stuff, the length felt just right to me. Really looking forward to what they do next.
 
Agree with most of your points tbh, still enjoyed the game a bunch.

My biggest gripe (and I had a few I can tell you) was them forcing in "The Message" though, I really wish they'd stop targeting kids with that crap, they're confused enough as it is.

Gorgeous game though and I love Souls likes, so...definite room for improvement with a potential sequel.
If I ever get kids, this isn't the game I'm exposing them to. Just look at some of these characters like Taro, who I initially thought was a woman:

UcBtG5B.jpg


His whole demeanor just pissed me off. I believe it's because of the effeminate features that the developers decided to give him.
Contrast him with one of the lesbians in the game, Adira:

EHvysbK.jpg


I had the impression going in that this game was Eastern-inspired? Why did the developers feel the need to self-insert their politics? Isn't that, in their vernacular, a form of "cultural appropriation"? I found it odd that everything was Asian, and then in the second act -- BAM! -- they shove these two in your face, who stick out like a soar thumb as opposed to everyone else. Also, it's a fucking kids game. I don't need this shit shoved down my throat. If I ever go back to playing this game, I'll just aggressively skip the cut scenes. Fuck "The Message".
 
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Really good game for their first outing either way, no one can deny that.

The fact that it can stand. Toe to toe with some sony games polish wise (Great graphics, art direction, music, level design) is something to behold
 

Doom85

Member
I had the impression going in that this game was Eastern-inspired? Why did the developers feel the need to self-insert their politics? Isn't that, in their vernacular, a form of "cultural appropriation"? I found it odd that everything was Asian, and then in the second act -- BAM! -- they shove these two in your face, who stick out like a soar thumb as opposed to everyone else.

LGBT representation has actually been present in some Eastern media, particularly Japanese, for decades.

Ujcs0qK.jpg
EGwhrYR.jpg


Maybe actually learn a little more about the cultures you’re “defending”?

Also, LMAO at complaining about “feminine” features on a male character inspired by Eastern media? Tell me you don’t watch anime or play JRPGs without telling me you don’t watch anime or play JRPGs.

You know, Charles Schulz got pressure from his higher ups asking to have the character Franklin removed from the Peaunts comic strips, or at least not show him going to school with Charlie Brown and the others or being friends with them. Because they knew people in the South would get pissed. Schulz told them Franklin would stay or he’d walk.

But I’m sure some people in the South insisted they weren’t hating black people‘s freedom to peacefully coexist with white people, they just “don’t need that shit shoved down their throat” and “I don’t want that shown to my kids.”

Side Eye Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
had the impression going in that this game was Eastern-inspired? Why did the developers feel the need to self-insert their politics? Isn't that, in their vernacular, a form of "cultural appropriation"? I found it odd that everything was Asian, and then in the second act -- BAM! -- they shove these two in your face, who stick out like a soar thumb as opposed to everyone else. Also, it's a fucking kids game. I don't need this shit shoved down my throat. If I ever go back to playing this game, I'll just aggressively skip the cut scenes. Fuck "The Message".
Games like 13 Sentinels and NieR Replicant has gay characters, it doesn't game "politics", also like it or not you cant separate human factor in games or any art form. lot of creatures put their beliefs and yes their politics in their piece.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
OP lists reasons why i hated this game. I make fun of games being stuck in 2005 era game design, but this is literally a PS2 game with PS4 quality visuals. Everytthing about the gameplay is as dated and BAD as it gets.

This is one of those games that deserve a 60 on metacritic. not Callisto or Gotham Knights. 81? GTFO. This is a bad game that should not be praised one bit.
 
Great timing! I just finished this game today.

I think this was a fantastic game all around. It plays like Jak and Daxter with God of War combat (the Atreus segments). The world is gorgeous and full of little puzzles and some nice traversal. The controls are tight, and they need to be because you have little margin for error with the combat. I appreciate the pattern and reflex heavy boss fights. The light Pikmin element was delightful.

I do not understand the hate in this thread. It's the old school combat platform that I've been wanting, and it's surprisingly well done.
 
LGBT representation has actually been present in some Eastern media, particularly Japanese, for decades.

Ujcs0qK.jpg
EGwhrYR.jpg


Maybe actually learn a little more about the cultures you’re “defending”?

Also, LMAO at complaining about “feminine” features on a male character inspired by Eastern media? Tell me you don’t watch anime or play JRPGs without telling me you don’t watch anime or play JRPGs.

You know, Charles Schulz got pressure from his higher ups asking to have the character Franklin removed from the Peaunts comic strips, or at least not show him going to school with Charlie Brown and the others or being friends with them. Because they knew people in the South would get pissed. Schulz told them Franklin would stay or he’d walk.

But I’m sure some people in the South insisted they weren’t hating black people‘s freedom to peacefully coexist with white people, they just “don’t need that shit shoved down their throat” and “I don’t want that shown to my kids.”

Side Eye Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
Games like 13 Sentinels and NieR Replicant has gay characters, it doesn't game "politics", also like it or not you cant separate human factor in games or any art form. lot of creatures put their beliefs and yes their politics in their piece.

I actually don't mind gay characters in Japanese games. In fact, I'm glad you brought up 13 Sentinels, because: aside from Nenji Ogata being my favourite character, I actually shipped Tsukasa Okino and Takatoshi Hijiyama's relationship and found it cute and endearing. Having said that, the reason why I have an issue with this game's characters (specifically the two lesbians) is, not because of their sexuality, but because of the implications of why they were added. They felt shoe-horned in, added in the game as a quota. It's the same reason why I can't stomach mainstream media nowadays. You know what I'm talking about.

Edit: also being bisexual myself, I remember romancing Dorian Pavus (a gay man) in Dragon Age: Inquisition over the female counterparts. But sure, let's compare me to Rednecks in the deep south.
 
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I actually don't mind gay characters in Japanese games. In fact, I'm glad you brought up 13 Sentinels, because: aside from Nenji Ogata being my favourite character, I actually shipped Tsukasa Okino and Takatoshi Hijiyama's relationship and found it cute and endearing. Having said that, the reason why I have an issue with this game's characters (specifically the two lesbians) is, not because of their sexuality, but because of the implications of why they were added. They felt shoe-horned in, added in the game as a quota. It's the same reason why I can't stomach mainstream media nowadays. You know what I'm talking about.

Just say you dislike gays
 

RCU005

Member
Also, the Ratchet and Clank comparison is extremely unfair, you’re comparing a major development team like Insomniac who’s had around 15 years working on the R&C IP to a small indie team like this working on a brand new IP for them?
I meant about the gameplay, not the production values. Of course Insomniac would have a bigger budget, but I'd say Kena's developers are as talented.
 

RCU005

Member
Great timing! I just finished this game today.

I think this was a fantastic game all around. It plays like Jak and Daxter with God of War combat (the Atreus segments). The world is gorgeous and full of little puzzles and some nice traversal. The controls are tight, and they need to be because you have little margin for error with the combat. I appreciate the pattern and reflex heavy boss fights. The light Pikmin element was delightful.

I do not understand the hate in this thread. It's the old school combat platform that I've been wanting, and it's surprisingly well done.

I agree with your post 100%. It's really the little things, but I'm sure this game was a learning experience for the devs, and that's why their next game will be much polished.
 

Doom85

Member
Edit: also being bisexual myself, I remember romancing Dorian Pavus (a gay man) in Dragon Age: Inquisition over the female counterparts. But sure, let's compare me to Rednecks in the deep south.

It‘s the type of argument, not who is making it. There were some black people back then against the idea of white and black people getting along like that as well. Doesn’t mean I’m going to agree with them in standing against progress.

Also, my two closest friends’ wives are both bisexual, and neither find characters like this “shoe horned in“ (generally their response to, “why did this couple have to be gay?” is “well, why do they have to be straight?”) nor do they have an issue with a LGBT couple being in something kids might watch/play.
 
It‘s the type of argument, not who is making it. There were some black people back then against the idea of white and black people getting along like that as well. Doesn’t mean I’m going to agree with them in standing against progress.

Also, my two closest friends’ wives are both bisexual, and neither find characters like this “shoe horned in“ (generally their response to, “why did this couple have to be gay?” is “well, why do they have to be straight?”) nor do they have an issue with a LGBT couple being in something kids might watch/play.
Fair enough. I guess my brain has a conspiratorial kink to it, making connections where there might not be any :messenger_tears_of_joy:.
I'm still firm on my stance, though.
 

RPS37

Member
I’m also LTTP.
Picked it up on sale for $18.
Trying to get through Ragnarok before I do any other dope PS5 things.
 
Kena feels like a modernized PS2 game

I get-ish the references to PS2 games but most of those games were much more limited and restricted with their gameplay/exploration than Kena. The only similar-ish PS2 game that rivals Kena (in quality) is Jak & Daxter, but its gameplay and combat are very different.

Because Kena is more like Zelda OOT than anything else on PS2. Kena is really a modernized Zelda OOT. The only reason people compares this to PS2 games (but then what PS2 games are they talking about, I don't see even one) is because it's released only on Playstation consoles. But if Kena was released on Switch people would never stop to compare it with Zelda and specifically classic Zelda OOT.
 
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