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LTTP: Harry Potter and the Deathy Hollows (the Movie) Part 2

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marrec

Banned
My LTTP on the Previous Movie:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=494734

It's been awhile since the last thread, because this happened:



The Wii, in a last ditch effort for attention before the next generation starts, claimed my TVs life.

Never expected this to be appropriate in this thread.


So here we are at the end of the eight movies, after a broken TV and a month delay, I watched Part 2 of the Deathly Hollows. For those of you who didn't read any of the previous threads, a quick explanation.

Didn't know anything about Harry Potter, SO forced me to watch the movies, now I kinda like Harry Potter. Over the past three months I've watched the first 7 movies and this week I watched:



The posters for these movies seem to be getting more gritty, which is awful.

The last movie ended when Voldemort nabbed what was presumably the Elder Wand from Dumbledore's tomb where he'd had himself buried with it in his final bout of stupidity and we open this movie with images of that and Harry and the Gang at a beach side hostel of some sort. The goblin from the bank in the very first movie (Griphook) is there and so is the Wand guy (Ollivander).

I don't remember either of these characters being AT the beach house. I had thought the goblin that escaped with them at Lestrange's was the conductor. I'm probably just being a goblin racist though. (They all look the same). Through various leaps of logic they assume that a Horcrux is in Lestrange's vault at the bank and after a few dire warnings from the Wandmaker Harry, Hermione, Ron, and Griphook are all off to pull the heist of the century!

To do it, they use a potion to make Hermione look like Bellatrix and Ron look like an extra from Blade and we're treated to a fantastic sequence in which Helena Bonham Carter channels Emma Watson playing Hermione acting like Bellatrix. It's wonderfully sideways. Especially if you remember in the last movie where we get a slightly erotic scene of Bellatrix mercilessly torturing Hermione for information. The of course get through the initial guards only to be foiled by a charm clearing waterfall during the ride to the vault.

An excuse to lose the get up? In the book? Either way, you'd think that Griphook would have warned them a bit more clearly that they would not be able to pass through that waterfall, and of the deadly fall that followed. Luckily they're wizards and fuck gravity.

There's a fucked up looking dragon they are able to pass and they all pile into Bellatrix's vault which is filled with the requisite glittery stuff. Despite a curse that actually doesn't amount to much, the trio get their hands on the Horcrux and are summarily betrayed by the little goblin fellow. As per their agreement, the goblin takes the sword and flees as the kids are being attacked by security. Shortly thereafter, he dies and the sword, of course, disappears... I think we'll see it again.

They ride Chekhov's Dragon out of that shithole (after he kills EVERYONE) and then leap off his back into the sea. While drowning, Harry sees that Voldemort is super pissed that someone keeps fucking with his stuff. He also gets a clue for the next set part of their epic quest and the Scooby Gang are off to Hogwarts via secret passages in Hogsmeade.

Nothing has stood out so far, nothing disappointing, but nothing is making me really lean forward in my chair like the wilderness scenes in DH Part 1. Probably because I already hate the idea of the Horcruxes and so far this movie may as well be called The Quest for the Horcruxes. Dumbledore's brother shows up and asks everyone if Albus had mentioned him. The Audience says 'Nope' and there is a hasty explanation in which we learn he had a sister too.

Longbottom leads them to Hogwarts where it's explained that after Harry left everything kind of went to shit and Neville was the leader who kept fighting the good fight. There's a bit of a nice scene where Snape is addressing the student body asking for information about Harry since they know he's in Hogwarts, and then Harry steps up and confronts him then and there. It sucks that the same kind of thing is repeated later, but it's effective I suppose. The Order of the Phoenix shows up out of nowhere and Snape flees, Hogwarts is liberated!

Once liberated, they waste no time in condemning all of Slytherin house to the dungeons. Kind of a dick move.

Harry finds the last Horcrux they're looking for and has a moment with Draco. Both the Chalice and the Diadem are destroyed which makes Voldemort fly into a rage and destroy the shield protecting Hogwarts with the power of the Elder Wand. The shield effect was very cool and so was it's destruction. Equally cool are the animated statues that help defend Hogwarts from the suddenly huge army of Death Eaters that Voldemort has managed to rustle up. The entire Wizard community seems to be behind Voldemort which makes me think they're all just evil bastards and the good guys are in the minority. The giant army lays siege to the school and Harry decides that before everyone dies, he should confront Voldy. It's a terrible plan, but they were doing fuck all else sitting there having the walls cave in around them.

Oh, before that we get the Snape death scene which really lives up to want I wanted from the Snape death scene. He's finally shown as the sympathetic character he is, caught between two equally powerful and careless wizards (Dumbledore and Voldemort). Without a way out, he's forced to help Dumbledore prime young Harry for his true destiny; to die at Voldemort's hand. It's a great twist that doesn't completely exonerate Snape but really makes you feel like he had no other choice. Snape doesn't want Harry to die because he sees so much of his lost love in him, but he also can't help but be bitter at the constant reminder of what he lost to PaPa Potter. Finally a good bit of writing.

So anyway, with this knowledge in hand, Harry confronts Voldemort and lets himself be killed. We're sent to a pretty awesome version of the afterlife where Dumbledore (or Harry's image of Dumbledore) is waiting to tell comfort Harry and lay a little knowledge on him. I don't think this is actually Dumbledore, because I don't believe the old bastard really cared that much about Harry or anyone else for that matter. He only cared about seeing his plan come to fruition.

Harry decides he doesn't like being dead, so he stops it. Mama Malfoy is sent to check and make sure the boy is dead and when she sees that he isn't, asks him if Draco is alive. It's... subtle, in it's own way. I really like the Malfoy family, they feel very real to me. Convinced that Harry's dead, Voldemort has Hagrid (who was tied up in the forest... for some reason) carry the boys lifeless body to Hogwarts where he makes good on his earlier promise. Harry's dead, they've won, lets all kiss and make up. It's actually extremely magnanimous of him. Neville, though, is an ungrateful prick and starts making a rather eloquent and impassioned speech all about how they can't give up just because Harry's dead.

Everyone's starting to love Neville and Harry can't stand for that, so he unceremoniously rolls out of Hagrids arms (SURPRISE FUCKERS!) and ineffectually tries to kill Nagini. Voldemort and Harry have a final confrontation, Neville kills Nagini (the very, super duper last Horcrux) and Voldemort disappears into the wind. THE DAY IS SAVED!

Why didn't the Elder Wand eat Harry's lunch?

Because Voldemort and his followers apparently were stupid and had no idea how wands worked.

You see, it's not just killing another wizard that makes a wand choose a new owner, simply disarming that wizard does the trick. Draco disarmed Dumbledore, Harry disarmed Draco, and so the Elder Wand liked Harry. That's bullshit. Voldemort must be the stupidest Wizard in history.

Also that epilogue was awful and old Ron is a guy I'd have a beer with.

...

It wasn't as good as Part 1, but served very well as a finisher. In the end, the Horcruxes remained a bad plot point and the wand lore was forced, but as usual the set pieces (especially the After Life) proved visually stunning to look at and I couldn't help but be sucked in by all the well animated action. The climax of Neville's speech in which Harry pops up and spurts out a spell was odd and out of place... and the first hour felt like a completely different movie... but I left satisfied. It's been a long watch, but I'm glad I decided to shed my Harry Hate and watch these movies, if only because now I get all those in-jokes.
 

Jibbed

Member
It was ok I guess.

The films peaked at Azkaban.

The books however.. damn, so bloody good. Aside from Chamber of Secrets. Hated both the book and the film for reasons I can't fathom.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
Always felt like the ending was the weakest aspect of the whole series, both in the books and in the movies. It's like she had this grand buildup and didn't know what to do with it, so took the easiest way out. The movie just underscored it even more. And the makeup in the epilogue was downright nightmare-enducing.
 

marrec

Banned
It was ok I guess.

The films peaked at Azkaban.

The books however.. damn, so bloody good. Aside from Chamber of Secrets. Hated both the book and the film for reasons I can't fathom.
I think Deathly Hallows Part 1 was just as good as Azkaban, it felt like a grown up version of how good that movie was. I may be blinded by the amazing Wilderness scenes.
Always felt like the ending was the weakest aspect of the whole series, both in the books and in the movies. It's like she had this grand buildup and didn't know what to do with it, so took the easiest way out. The movie just underscored it even more. And the makeup in the epilogue was downright nightmare-enducing.

That's exactly how I feel. She wrote herself into so many corners that the only way out was a Deus Ex fueled wrecking ball.
 

Medalion

Banned
One of the biggest dissapointments I've ever seen in recent memory

I loved every other Harry Potter movie except this one, it was just bullshit
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
There's no getting around that the Wand Lore stuff was poorly handled.

Other stuff like Dumbledore's brother was mentioned and alluded to earlier in the books. While never formally introduced, he was seen as the barman several times, and enough hints were dropped that some fans figured out that it was Dumbledore's brother.
 
How awkward must Draco feel seeing Harry? I bet they play poker together.

I like to think he's all awkward around him.

Draco's wife: "Oh look it's harry potter! Let's go say hi..."
Draco: "Shut up shut up, you know he saved my life once."
DW:"i know dear but he's a nice guy and we need more couple friends..."

*awkward conversation ensues*
 

marrec

Banned
One of the biggest dissapointments I've ever seen in recent memory

I loved every other Harry Potter movie except this one, it was just bullshit

There were a few moments of awesomeness, but it was pretty middling as a climax. Satisfying enough I suppose.

There's no getting around that the Wand Lore stuff was poorly handled.

Other stuff like Dumbledore's brother was mentioned and alluded to earlier in the books. While never formally introduced, he was seen as the barman several times, and enough hints were dropped that some fans figured out that it was Dumbledore's brother.

Was the actor shown as the barman in the previous movies?
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Because Voldemort and his followers apparently were stupid and had no idea how wands worked.

You see, it's not just killing another wizard that makes a wand choose a new owner, simply disarming that wizard does the trick. Draco disarmed Dumbledore, Harry disarmed Draco, and so the Elder Wand liked Harry. That's bullshit. Voldemort must be the stupidest Wizard in history.

Not quite - he assumed Snape was the one who defeated Dumbledore, which is why he killed him thinking it would make the wand more receptive to him. He was unaware Draco had disarmed Dumbledore before Snape got there.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Oh, before that we get the Snape death scene which really lives up to want I wanted from the Snape death scene. He's finally shown as the sympathetic character he is, caught between two equally powerful and careless wizards (Dumbledore and Voldemort). Without a way out, he's forced to help Dumbledore prime young Harry for his true destiny; to die at Voldemort's hand. It's a great twist that doesn't completely exonerate Snape but really makes you feel like he had no other choice. Snape doesn't want Harry to die because he sees so much of his lost love in him, but he also can't help but be bitter at the constant reminder of what he lost to PaPa Potter. Finally a good bit of writing.

This was a problem I had with the films, Snape was a tragic character, more than a sympathetic one. He hated Harry, it wasn't an act. The film left out that Snape's actions are what ruined his friendship with Lilly. Snape was an abusive asshole to his students, and a bully to some of them as well. His motivation was not love for Harry, he didn't give a shit about Harry, he still felt for Lilly and felt obligated to protect the kid.

Not quite - he assumed Snape was the one who defeated Dumbledore, which is why he killed him. He was unaware Draco had disarmed Dumbledore before Snape got there.

Voldemort knew Draco disarmed Dumbledore, but Voldemort knew of the myths behind the wand that told of the owner being killed. He thought the wand allegiance was only altered by murder, not simply disarming.
 

marrec

Banned
This was a problem I had with the films, Snape was a tragic character, more than a sympathetic one. He hated Harry, it wasn't an act. The film left out that Snape's actions are what ruined his friendship with Lilly. Snape was an abusive asshole to his students, and a bully to some of them as well. His motivation was not love for Harry, he didn't give a shit about Harry, he still felt for Lilly and felt obligated to protect the kid.

I got that much from the movie. Like I said, Snape was constantly bitter about Harry because he was a constant reminder of what he could never have with Lily, but also felt obligated to protect Harry because of his love for Lily. Really great stuff. It was the first time I felt a ping of emotion for any of the characters.

Edit:

Although, in the movie they make it seem as if Papa Potter stole Lily away from Snape instead of Snape being a prick to her.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I got that much from the movie. Like I said, Snape was constantly bitter about Harry because he was a constant reminder of what he could never have with Lily, but also felt obligated to protect Harry because of his love for Lily. Really great stuff. It was the first time I felt a ping of emotion for any of the characters.

Edit:

Although, in the movie they make it seem as if Papa Potter stole Lily away from Snape instead of Snape being a prick to her.

Snape's memories in the movie were handled great on their own, except for leaving out the part where Snape calls Lilly a mudblood, and it really fails to show that it wasn't really that James stole her away, her friendship with Snape was over before her and James ever got together (she actually didn't care much for James at that point either).
 

Cyan

Banned
On the wandlore complaint: yeah, that didn't really come off in the book, either.

I also loved the Bellatrix/Hermione scene. The polyjuice potion scene in the previous movie was also awesome.
 

qindarka

Banned
I haven't actually watched Deathly Hallows 2 but from what I've read in the books, everything about the Elder Wand, the other hallows and the horcruxes all reek of bullshit.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I mentioned this in spoilers in previous threads, but can again here unspoilered.

My biggest issue with this final film was that it did a lot of things well, but never great. It almost got it, time and time again.

The above mentioned Snape's memory bit. The final battle with Voldemort being overdone and not sticking the the more simplistic fight in the book with Harry taunting Voldemort in front of everyone. The Kings Cross scene lacked Harry's impatience with Dumbledore. Adding in one final action scene with Ron and Hermione and the Snake, rather than having Neville hack it's head off right after his little speech.

Two tiny details I did not like.

Harry not repairing his wand. I actually do like the moving having Harry destroy the wand as opposed to the book method of just putting it back with Dumbledore's body, but not having him repair his own wand seemed an odd omission.

Having harry destroy the cup. In the book, it was mentioned that the fiendfire spell destroyed the cup. It was neat because in the end, no one destroyed more than one Horcrux. For all Harry's searching, in the end, the only horcrux he destroyed was a book when he was 12.

I still enjoyed the film, but in the end I found it very lacking in greatness. It was adequate.
 

Mother_Sanchez

Neo Member
Yup. This and Azkaban.

I thought Azkaban was great. I loved the way that they portrayed Sirius as more of a father figure to Harry and how that explored that somewhat throughout the movies and summed it up rather nicely in the final movie. When Harry asked Sirius if dying hurt. He could have asked his father, but no. He chose his godfather because he had been more close to a father figure than his own flesh and blood father had been.

Something that I felt was both heartbreaking and lovely at the same time.
 

marrec

Banned
I mentioned this in spoilers in previous threads, but can again here unspoilered.

My biggest issue with this final film was that it did a lot of things well, but never great. It almost got it, time and time again.

The above mentioned Snape's memory bit. The final battle with Voldemort being overdone and not sticking the the more simplistic fight in the book with Harry taunting Voldemort in front of everyone. The Kings Cross scene lacked Harry's impatience with Dumbledore. Adding in one final action scene with Ron and Hermione and the Snake, rather than having Neville hack it's head off right after his little speech.

Two tiny details I did not like.

Harry not repairing his wand. I actually do like the moving having Harry destroy the wand as opposed to the book method of just putting it back with Dumbledore's body, but not having him repair his own wand seemed an odd omission.

Having harry destroy the cup. In the book, it was mentioned that the fiendfire spell destroyed the cup. It was neat because in the end, no one destroyed more than one Horcrux. For all Harry's searching, in the end, the only horcrux he destroyed was a book when he was 12.

I still enjoyed the film, but in the end I found it very lacking in greatness. It was adequate.

It was especially disappointing after the buildup of Deathly Hallows 1, I can't imagine waiting so long for the conclusion only to have it be so... not as epic as it could have been. I still feel that the entire arc of the story would have benefited from the exclusion of the Horcruxes, but I've complained enough about that.

I felt the scene where Draco turns coat against the people who'd just saved him to be needless. I understand that he's just a slimy snake in the end (who has a lot of family issues) but it would have been nice if he'd been a bit of a round character in the end. Turns out he was pretty flat. Which makes the 'Epilogue' part where it shows Draco loading up his kid into the train even more hilariously awkward.

I thought Azkaban was great. I loved the way that they portrayed Sirius as more of a father figure to Harry and how that explored that somewhat throughout the movies and summed it up rather nicely in the final movie. When Harry asked Sirius if dying hurt. He could have asked his father, but no. He chose his godfather because he had been more close to a father figure than his own flesh and blood father had been.

Something that I felt was both heartbreaking and lovely at the same time.

Ah man I didn't even catch that, but that's a great point. James Potter, to Harry, was just a collection of remembrances from others and anecdotes.
 

Mother_Sanchez

Neo Member
It was especially disappointing after the buildup of Deathly Hallows 1, I can't imagine waiting so long for the conclusion only to have it be so... not as epic as it could have been. I still feel that the entire arc of the story would have benefited from the exclusion of the Horcruxes, but I've complained enough about that.

I felt the scene where Draco turns coat against the people who'd just saved him to be needless. I understand that he's just a slimy snake in the end (who has a lot of family issues) but it would have been nice if he'd been a bit of a round character in the end. Turns out he was pretty flat. Which makes the 'Epilogue' part where it shows Draco loading up his kid into the train even more hilariously awkward.



Ah man I didn't even catch that, but that's a great point. James Potter, to Harry, was just a collection of remembrances from others and anecdotes.

He really was. James Potter was just another man. A man who had his name and represented a past that Harry himself couldn't run from even if he had wanted to. I think that's why it shook me so much harder when Sirius died. He was all that Harry had in the way of direct family and the sudden and shocking loss of him was just another point proven that no one was ever truly safe.
 
He really was. James Potter was just another man. A man who had his name and represented a past that Harry himself couldn't run from even if he had wanted to. I think that's why it shook me so much harder when Sirius died. He was all that Harry had in the way of direct family and the sudden and shocking loss of him was just another point proven that no one was ever truly safe.

he was definitely a remembrance and a longing, but there was not a lot of feeling of family there, sirius was his family. Quite sad.
 

Harpuia

Member
I saw this movie around three months ago, and I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. I absolutely loved the part 1, and I put it up alongside Azkaban, which is definitely the best movie. I think if I saw part 2 when it came out, the hype would've been there and probably would have enjoyed it. Otherwise, it was ok, for some reason it didn't feel like a completely satisfying ending to the movie.
 

ascii42

Member
It was especially disappointing after the buildup of Deathly Hallows 1, I can't imagine waiting so long for the conclusion only to have it be so... not as epic as it could have been. I still feel that the entire arc of the story would have benefited from the exclusion of the Horcruxes, but I've complained enough about that.

I felt the scene where Draco turns coat against the people who'd just saved him to be needless. I understand that he's just a slimy snake in the end (who has a lot of family issues) but it would have been nice if he'd been a bit of a round character in the end. Turns out he was pretty flat. Which makes the 'Epilogue' part where it shows Draco loading up his kid into the train even more hilariously awkward.



Ah man I didn't even catch that, but that's a great point. James Potter, to Harry, was just a collection of remembrances from others and anecdotes.

I liked Part 2, but I think it's because I had read the book. Firstly, I knew exactly what to expect from the second part, and was mostly satisfied. Secondly, I really view Part 1 and Part 2 as part of the same movie. I can see why someone judging it as its own movie could be disappointed.
 

zethren

Banned
I still think that Half Blood Prince reigns supreme as the absolute best of the films, but I enjoyed 7 part 2.

I still think Voldemort isn't a very smart villain, though. Okay Voldey, you managed to take over Hogwarts. You have a stranglehold over England/Western Europe's wizarding community. Would the rest of the wizarding world not then just commit all energy to destroying him WWII style?

Dunno, seemed like his plan was always incredibly weak.
 
It's so anti-climactic. It has the same issue Avengers has, there's supposed to be a huge battle going on, but there's no sense of tension at all.
 

marrec

Banned
I still think that Half Blood Prince reigns supreme as the absolute best of the films, but I enjoyed 7 part 2.

I still think Voldemort isn't a very smart villain, though. Okay Voldey, you managed to take over Hogwarts. You have a stranglehold over England/Western Europe's wizarding community. Would the rest of the wizarding world not then just commit all energy to destroying him WWII style?

Dunno, seemed like his plan was always incredibly weak.

Ya, I've questioned Voldemort's plan from the very beginning, I don't think he really had a plan outside of 'Convince everyone to kill Mudbloods'.

He had to convince everyone by shooting them with magic though.
 

ascii42

Member
It's so anti-climactic. It has the same issue Avengers has, there's supposed to be a huge battle going on, but there's no sense of tension at all.

Well, Avengers has a different point. The struggle is getting them together, which is what most of the movie is about. The point is that once they are together, they kick ass.

Iron Man 1 was similar. I suspect that Avengers 2 will add more tension.
 

Cheerilee

Member
The of course get through the initial guards only to be foiled by a charm clearing waterfall during the ride to the vault.

An excuse to lose the get up? In the book? Either way, you'd think that Griphook would have warned them a bit more clearly that they would not be able to pass through that waterfall, and of the deadly fall that followed. Luckily they're wizards and fuck gravity.
It was a new security addition, installed sometime after Griphook was kidnapped.

So anyway, with this knowledge in hand, Harry confronts Voldemort and lets himself be killed. We're sent to a pretty awesome version of the afterlife where Dumbledore (or Harry's image of Dumbledore) is waiting to tell comfort Harry and lay a little knowledge on him. I don't think this is actually Dumbledore, because I don't believe the old bastard really cared that much about Harry or anyone else for that matter. He only cared about seeing his plan come to fruition.
He cared about his sister, and he cared about Grindelwald (the World's Greatest Dark Wizard, a generation before Voldemort).

There was a subplot in the books about how Dumbledore was best friends with Grindelwald, talking about power and plotting fun stuff like world domination, and then some things happened and Dumbledore's sister somehow got hit with Avada Kedavra, and then Dumbledore and Grindelwald stopped being friends.

Then Grindelwald went all Hitler on the world, and Dumbledore let it happen for a few years. Eventually the pleas of the world got to him, so Dumbledore (after taking his sweet time) kicked Grindelwald's ass, took his Elder Wand, and sent him off to Azkaban (where Voldemort finally killed him while looking for the wand).

This sort of stuff led to Dumbledore's brother thinking that Dumbledore was an unfeeling asshole.

According to JK Rowling (and not explicitly clear in the books or movies), Dumbledore was gay, and was more than just best friends with Grindelwald, he had a one-sided homosexual love for Grindelwald that he never revealed. That was why he let him get away with as much as he did. Dumbledore never fell in love again.

Also, in the Half-Blood Prince, when Dumbledore made Harry force him to continue drinking that potion, the potion was making Dumbledore experience his worst pain imaginable, and Dumbledore's worst pain wasn't for himself (he didn't care if he lived or died), his torture was being forced to watch a vision of his dead sister being tortured.

I think he did enjoy teaching though (and trolling), and I think that he cared for his students, which was why he fought Voldemort at all. To protect the innocence of youth after his own was shattered. But Harry was a pawn to him, and while he grew to care for Harry more than he had expected, Harry was still a pawn. One child needs to die for the others to live? Dumbledore is hard enough to pull the trigger without flinching.

Because Voldemort and his followers apparently were stupid and had no idea how wands worked.

You see, it's not just killing another wizard that makes a wand choose a new owner, simply disarming that wizard does the trick. Draco disarmed Dumbledore, Harry disarmed Draco, and so the Elder Wand liked Harry. That's bullshit. Voldemort must be the stupidest Wizard in history.
"The wand chooses the wizard, Mr Potter. It's not always clear why." <- An expert on the subject

Most Wizards don't understand wandlore (see Hermionie destroying Harry's wand in the previous movie). And Voldemort is stupid, in that he disregards the will of anything or anyone he deems to be beneath him (a wand is just a tool to him, not a partner), and that he arrogantly tends to believe that any magic not imediately understood by himself must not be worth knowing. Also, Voldemort was (like Harry) a Wizard raised by Muggles.


Also, if you noticed, Grindelwald (being in Azkaban and very much not dead) told Voldemort that Dumbledore had his wand. Then Voldemort killed Grindelwald just for the hell of it. Eventually, Voldemort realized that he didn't "own" the wand merely by graverobbing it from Dumbledore, and that the wand was reputed to follow a path of blood, therefore he should kill it's real owner, Snape.

If the path of blood was a real thing, then Dumbledore would never have really been it's master, having spared Grindelwald's life, and Voldemort should have become it's "true" owner as soon as he killed Grindelward, before he ever laid hands upon the wand. Voldemort is an idiot. He doesn't think.
 

marrec

Banned
It was a new security addition, installed sometime after Griphook was kidnapped.

Ah, that makes more sense. I had thought that in the movie the goblin said something along the lines of 'I told you this wouldn't work!' which is to be left up for interpretation I suppose.

He cared about his sister, and he cared about Grindelwald (the World's Greatest Dark Wizard, a generation before Voldemort).

There was a subplot in the books about how Dumbledore was best friends with Grindelwald, talking about power and plotting fun stuff like world domination, and then some things happened and Dumbledore's sister somehow got hit with Avada Kedavra, and then Dumbledore and Grindelwald stopped being friends.

Then Grindelwald went all Hitler on the world, and Dumbledore let it happen for a few years. Eventually the pleas of the world got to him, so Dumbledore (after taking his sweet time) kicked Grindelwald's ass, took his Elder Wand, and sent him off to Azkaban (where Voldemort finally killed him while looking for the wand).

This sort of stuff led to Dumbledore's brother thinking that Dumbledore was an unfeeling asshole.

According to JK Rowling (and not explicitly clear in the books or movies), Dumbledore was gay, and was more than just best friends with Grindelwald, he had a one-sided homosexual love for Grindelwald that he never revealed. That was why he let him get away with as much as he did. Dumbledore never fell in love again.

How many Wizards go mad with power in this world? If Dumbledore's seen two extremely powerful and extremely evil wizards in his lifetime then maybe these guys need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Also, in the Half-Blood Prince, when Dumbledore made Harry force him to continue drinking that potion, the potion was making Dumbledore experience his worst pain imaginable, and Dumbledore's worst pain wasn't for himself (he didn't care if he lived or died), his torture was being forced to watch a vision of his dead sister being tortured.

It's... kind of a tragic story. I do enjoy the fact that Dumbledore was not the airheaded old bat that he seemed to be in the first movies. His cold, calculating plan was obvious from the third movie on and despite the actor change (RIP) it was well played. Well, except in Goblet of Fire.

I think he did enjoy teaching though (and trolling), and I think that he cared for his students, which was why he fought Voldemort at all. To protect the innocence of youth after his own was shattered. But Harry was a pawn to him, and while he grew to care for Harry more than he had expected, Harry was still a pawn. One child needs to die for the others to live? Dumbledore is hard enough to pull the trigger without flinching.

I never really got the feeling that he cared for the kids as much as he cared for the responsibilities of the job, but then again I've only watched the movies instead of reading the books.


"The wand chooses the wizard, Mr Potter. It's not always clear why." <- An expert on the subject

Most Wizards don't understand wandlore (see Hermionie destroying Harry's wand in the previous movie). And Voldemort is stupid, in that he disregards the will of anything or anyone he deems to be beneath him (a wand is just a tool to him, not a partner), and that he arrogantly tends to believe that any magic not imediately understood by himself must not be worth knowing. Also, Voldemort was (like Harry) a Wizard raised by Muggles.

Also, if you noticed, Grindelwald (being in Azkaban and very much not dead) told Voldemort that Dumbledore had his wand. Then Voldemort killed Grindelwald just for the hell of it. Eventually, Voldemort realized that he didn't "own" the wand merely by graverobbing it from Dumbledore, and that the wand was reputed to follow a path of blood, therefore he should kill it's real owner, Snape.

If the path of blood was a real thing, then Dumbledore would never have really been it's master, having spared Grindelwald's life, and Voldemort should have become it's "true" owner as soon as he killed Grindelward, before he ever laid hands upon the wand. Voldemort is an idiot. He doesn't think.

All Voldemort needed to do was a Wand Flowchart. Everything is better with flowcharts.

So Marrec, when can we expect LTTP threads for you reading the books?

Probably never, but we'll see after I finish finally reading all of the Terry Pratchett books. The later movies have intrigued me, but also kind of turned me off the whole thing. The issues I had with the movies might just be magnified when I read the books. From an academic perspective it would be interesting at the very least.
 
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