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Opinion LTTP LTTP: Dark Souls outshines Demon's Souls

Feb 27, 2013
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Back in November I was lucky enough to get my hands on PS5. The first game I fired up was Demon's Souls remake. Month later in December went onto complete the game twice and platinum it. Demon's Souls remake was my first ever souls type game to experience. Shortly after that I wanted to get more out of Souls and EviLore EviLore suggested Dark Souls Remastered. I've now completed the game (missed the Black Dragon Boss Fight somehow in the sanctuary DLC locations) after 49 very fascinating hours in this big labyrinth of a place called Anor Londo. Traversing through this place, one bonfire after another unlocking short cuts was so damn satisfying. Played the game entirely as temple knight with a Halberd+5 and Gravelord Sword. Majority of the bosses were memorable, some of them felt like a repetition (Asylum boss who gets re-used with AOE with bombs as Demon Firesage and back as a third boss when we return back to Undead Asylum). The game's lore and story around certain characters has been insightful to listen and read about on youtube. It's crazy how they managed to deliver this game during PS3 gen, a vast interconnected world with no loading (excluding bonfire warps). I wouldn't be surprised to see text books on level design having Dark Souls as a real world example. The frame rate was rock solid at 60fps and it ran very smooth. But the audio didn't sound right, was a little too noisy coming from Demon's Souls Remake. A friend of mine told me the bell sound that we hear whenever we are near to the Church bell gargoyle area is basically another player in the same world ringing it (mind blown). I honestly can't get enough of souls games now. I can now see why these games are so highly regarded and has a strong fan following. I didn't have the maturity among other things to appreciate these kind of games in past playstation generations. But thanks to PS5, I've now been able to experience and understand these games. Coming off of Demon's Souls remake and it's audio, visual and gameplay(haptics) glory, Dark Souls remastered felt like a huge step down and was bit jarring at first. The audio especially when you enter a new location or hit the bonfire, the sound effect played was actually hurting my ears a bit. The sound didn't have the level of finesse that I'd experienced in other games. But this didn't stop me from enjoying the whole experience of navigating through the bleak worlds and fighting bosses.

Summarize:

+ve
-Brilliant level design
-Bonfire Warps
-Memorable boss fights and NPC encounters
-I didn't know Patches from Demon's Souls makes his return in Dark Souls. I fell for his trick here once again :pie_roffles:
-While Demon's Souls remake is a staggering achievement in itself, the level design of that game feels more simplistic(lack of a better word) when compared to the vast interconnected world of Dark Souls Remastered.

-ve
-there were multiple occasions during which I felt like I was stuck not knowing where to proceed. There are so many locations to memorize and not knowing which key opens which place was bit challenging at first.
-not knowing the curse can be removed after being cursed by the weird Frog type creatures in the undead parish section. I traversed through all of blight town with just half the health bar. Only after finishing Quelaag and getting back to Firelink shrine did I learn that there's a man in churchbell gargoyle area who can rid of my curse and restore my health. So yeah there are some things the game doesn't quite explain to you and I guess that's inherent to every souls game.
-Bed of Chaos fight was quite frustrating.

I will gladly double dip if BluePoint did a remake of Dark Souls akin to Demon's Souls Remake (visuals done from the ground up including animations, audio, haptics and lightning fast loading)

Also FYI, I adore Demon's Souls remake to absolute bits. Love everything about it. Dark Souls Remastered is equally incredible if not better. I am sure most of you would rate Dark Souls better than Demon's Souls remake on certain aspects like the a big interconnected world vs hub type design to navigate to individual worlds. This could be subjective.
 
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Danjin44

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Well Dark Souls is the spiritual sequel to Demons Souls, so of course most it mechanics and gameplay much more refined and improved compare to Demon’s Souls.
 
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THEAP99

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Back in November I was lucky enough to get my hands on PS5. The first game I fired up was Demon's Souls remake. Month later in December went onto complete the game twice and platinum it. Demon's Souls remake was my first ever souls type game to experience. Shortly after that I wanted to get more out of Souls and EviLore EviLore EviLore EviLore suggested Dark Souls Remastered. I've now completed the game
Nice dude. I was in a similar situation. I played through Demon's Souls, loved it but took a bit for me to get into. And I wanted more so my friend told me to get Dark Souls Remastered and so I did, and I beat that. Really great stuff good genre.

Though i can't say dark souls outshines demon's souls. Demon's souls to me just had more memorable and atmospheric locations. I think dark souls had better boss fights though for sure. Idk, i like them both. They're pretty much the same game, once you've beat one souls game u beat them all.
 

EviLore

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Cool writeup! That interconnected world sure is something, huh? Here's a map someone made:

 
Feb 27, 2013
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Nice dude. I was in a similar situation. I played through Demon's Souls, loved it but took a bit for me to get into. And I wanted more so my friend told me to get Dark Souls Remastered and so I did, and I beat that. Really great stuff good genre.

Though i can't say dark souls outshines demon's souls. Demon's souls to me just had more memorable and atmospheric locations. I think dark souls had better boss fights though for sure. Idk, i like them both. They're pretty much the same game, once you've beat one souls game u beat them all.
I adore them both equally. I just started Dark Souls 2 and EviLore EviLore let me tell you it's just not clicking for me. I am at the very opening sections (orangey brown location overlooking the seas) the character movement feels like he's on ice skating, feels weird to move and run. My knight character looks like a Kingdom hearts meets Final Fantasy character model :(, the location itself feels like something from Final Fantasy and not from Souls. Where the hell is the shield? I start as knight but there no shield :( I am just not feeling it and I've put this on hold and moved over to Jedi Fallen Order.
 
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Sure Dark souls world is bigger and more complex. But that doesn't mean it's a better game. First time I played Dark Souls (after Demon's souls) it felt like Demon's Souls 2 to me with plenty stuff repeating Demon's souls design.
 

playXray

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I used to continually question whether I preferred Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. When Dark Souls was remastered, I finally accepted that Dark Souls was my favourite. Now that Demon's Souls has got such a stunning remaster from Bluepoint, I am back to square one and simply cannot decide between them.
 

EviLore

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Yeah, like I mentioned in the DeS thread, you should just skip ahead to Dark Souls 3 if you're not feeling 2. Dark Souls 2 was made by From's B-team while Miyazaki and his team were making Bloodborne. It's not necessary from a continuity perspective either. Dark Souls 3 is awesome and you'll feel right at home there.
 

rofif

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Don't let anyone tell You to skip Dark Souls 2 !!!
It's a fantastic game. Just a little different and trying interesting stuff. Do not let that discourage you. EviLore EviLore DS2 lore is a huge part of ringed city and ds3 story imo. But sure, You can play it last.
There is scholar of the first sin version on ps4. I prefer vanilla (not on ps4) but it's not a huge difference.

I did not liked Dark Souls 2 dlc (felt like annoying gank squads and traps) but I highly recommend Dark Souls 3 dlc when You get to that game
 
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Feb 27, 2013
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Sure Dark souls world is bigger and more complex. But that doesn't mean it's a better game. First time I played Dark Souls (after Demon's souls) it felt like Demon's Souls 2 to me with plenty stuff repeating Demon's souls design.

There are clearly recurring motifs in Dark Souls coming from Demon's Souls. That's what makes it memorable? At least for me. When I saw patches or when I saw the back stab animations below image was my reaction

 
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Danjin44

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Sure Dark souls world is bigger and more complex. But that doesn't mean it's a better game. First time I played Dark Souls (after Demon's souls) it felt like Demon's Souls 2 to me with plenty stuff repeating Demon's souls design.
It’s because it’s kind of is, the only reason is not called “demons Souls 2” was because the IP owned by Sony and FROM wanted go multiplatform.
 
Feb 27, 2013
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I used to continually question whether I preferred Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. When Dark Souls was remastered, I finally accepted that Dark Souls was my favourite. Now that Demon's Souls has got such a stunning remaster from Bluepoint, I am back to square one and simply cannot decide between them.

Yeah Demon's Souls remake's visuals, audio and haptics really takes it to the next level. I wonder if we would get a remake for Dark Souls like that down the line
 

THEAP99

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I adore them both equally. I just started Dark Souls 2 and EviLore EviLore let me tell you it's just not clicking for me. I am at the very opening sections (orangey brown location overlooking the seas) the character movement feels like he's on ice skating, feels weird to move and run. My knight character looks like a Kingdom hearts meets Final Fantasy character model :(, the location itself feels like something from Final Fantasy and not from Souls. Where the hell is the shield? I start as knight but there no shield :( I am just not feeling it and I've put this on hold and moved over to Jedi Fallen Order.
haha i don't think jedi fallen is that great of a game but yeah i also heard rough things about dark souls 2. i think dark souls 3 is still on sale on psn but i don't know, i need a little break after beating two souls game in a row. bloodborne man, i played some of that last year didn't get far but i really dug the atmosphere.. needs 60fps though if im gonna play through it.
 
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Feb 27, 2013
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haha i don't think jedi fallen is that great of a game but yeah i also heard rough things about dark souls 2. i think dark souls 3 is still on sale on psn but i don't know, i need a little break after beating two souls game in a row. bloodborne man, i played some of that last year didn't get far but i really dug the atmosphere.. needs 60fps though if im gonna play through it.

I own Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 which I picked up alongside DS1 and 2 during the sale period. I am holding off on Bloodborne until it gets a 60fps patch or version. Jedi Fallen Order has been very engaging so far, has subtle souls elements like bonfire(meditation points), unlocking short cuts.
 
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Demon's Souls wins in lore, atmosphere, characters and trailblazing points (so many innovations that are copied into every soulsborne game)

But I like Dark Souls better because of gameplay refinements and enhanced multiplayer

Really you can't go wrong with any of these games, except I dislike DS2 a lot but other than that I think they are all special
 

sublimit

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Demon's Souls felt like a much more cohesive and solid game to me. 2/3 of Dark Souls are briliant but there were areas that felt very unfinished and brought down the experience (when compared to Demon's).
I love both games but i would gladly take the lore,atmosphere and mysticism of Demon's Souls over the briliantly interconnected level designs of Dark Souls.
 

Sentenza

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Sure Dark souls world is bigger and more complex. But that doesn't mean it's a better game.
Well, except it is.

Anyway, no objection here, OP. I always thought of Dark Souls as the better game.
If anything, I've always been a bit disappointed that the sequels somehow decided to drop some of the significant improvements Dark Souls made over Demon's Souls (despise occasionally excelling in other areas).
 
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AV

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Should I continue with NG+ or just jump over and start DS3

You should still play 2 to make your own mind up on it, it's a very divisive game with some calling it their favourite. It's the worst one IMO but still better than many other games. 3 very much feels like the culmination of DeS/DS/2, if you go straight from 1 to 3, I think you might find the intensity ramped up too quickly.

Then play Bloodborne and Sekiro if you haven't already, obviously.
 
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Soodanim

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Summarize:

-ve
-there were multiple occasions during which I felt like I was stuck not knowing where to proceed. There are so many locations to memorize and not knowing which key opens which place was bit challenging at first.
-not knowing the curse can be removed after being cursed by the weird Frog type creatures in the undead parish section. I traversed through all of blight town with just half the health bar. Only after finishing Quelaag and getting back to Firelink shrine did I learn that there's a man in churchbell gargoyle area who can rid of my curse and restore my health. So yeah there are some things the game doesn't quite explain to you and I guess that's inherent to every souls game.
-Bed of Chaos fight was quite frustrating.

I will gladly double dip if BluePoint did a remake of Dark Souls akin to Demon's Souls Remake (visuals done from the ground up including animations, audio, haptics and lightning fast loading)

Also FYI, I adore Demon's Souls remake to absolute bits. Love everything about it. Dark Souls Remastered is equally incredible if not better. I am sure most of you would rate Dark Souls better than Demon's Souls remake on certain aspects like the a big interconnected world vs hub type design to navigate to individual worlds. This could be subjective.
I absolutely prefer Dark Souls to Demon's Souls, and I knew it very early on in DS1. It fixed things I didn't like, and the moment I returned to Firelink confirmed it. One of my favourite games of all times, despite the flaws.

Speaking of flaws, imagine how bad the curse thing was before they patched it and added in extra curse heals (along with other QOL additions). Some stuff was hard.
I adore them both equally. I just started Dark Souls 2 and EviLore EviLore let me tell you it's just not clicking for me. I am at the very opening sections (orangey brown location overlooking the seas) the character movement feels like he's on ice skating, feels weird to move and run. My knight character looks like a Kingdom hearts meets Final Fantasy character model :(, the location itself feels like something from Final Fantasy and not from Souls. Where the hell is the shield? I start as knight but there no shield :( I am just not feeling it and I've put this on hold and moved over to Jedi Fallen Order.
As strongly as I feel about Dark Souls 1 being one of the best games ever made, I feel strongly about how much I dislike Dark Souls 2. I finished the main story and one of the DLCs (SotFS, PC), but there was far less enjoyment. The mods/fixes didn't help. If I had played a demo I wouldn't have bought it, because I think the game is fundamentally broken at its foundation and you've touched on why.

The movement in 2 feels so bad to me, and I don't why they made it that way. They had something that was just fine in 1, so they had to go out of their way to make it worse. Terrible. I can never return to it now, because if the choice is between 1, 2, and 3, I have two games I'd rather play straight away. There's more obscure stuff in that game that annoyed me more than some of the hidden/obscure stuff in 1, but I don't know how much of it is lower tolerance because I already dislike it.

I've always said if they ported 2 to 1 or 3's engine I'd buy it day one, because there's some legitimately good stuff in there. Some good world, lore, and gameplay ideas. Dual wielding was vastly improved, and they went further with power stances, ascending bonfires was a great concept, and the healing for better or worse allowed for two rare rings by completing the game with certain restrictions/challenges.

I just can't get over the movement.
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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Dark Souls 1 is still the best overall Souls game. No wonder it’s been one of the most influential games of the decade. Everything just fits.

Demon’s has the superior atmosphere, though. Nothing in Dark Souls feels like Latria, Stonefang, or Valley of Defilement 2. But that was possible with having completely separate environments. Everything else is just better in Dark Souls.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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As strongly as I feel about Dark Souls 1 being one of the best games ever made, I feel strongly about how much I dislike Dark Souls 2. I finished the main story and one of the DLCs (SotFS, PC), but there was far less enjoyment. The mods/fixes didn't help. If I had played a demo I wouldn't have bought it, because I think the game is fundamentally broken at its foundation and you've touched on why.

The movement in 2 feels so bad to me, and I don't why they made it that way. They had something that was just fine in 1, so they had to go out of their way to make it worse. Terrible. I can never return to it now, because if the choice is between 1, 2, and 3, I have two games I'd rather play straight away. There's more obscure stuff in that game that annoyed me more than some of the hidden/obscure stuff in 1, but I don't know how much of it is lower tolerance because I already dislike it.

I've always said if they ported 2 to 1 or 3's engine I'd buy it day one, because there's some legitimately good stuff in there. Some good world, lore, and gameplay ideas. Dual wielding was vastly improved, and they went further with power stances, ascending bonfires was a great concept, and the healing for better or worse allowed for two rare rings by completing the game with certain restrictions/challenges.

I just can't get over the movement.
I absolutely hated DS2’s reliance on mob battles and extreme aggro. Managing 2 bosses at the same time was peak Dark Souls, so they thought, why not 3? Or 5? Or a whole squad of fucking midgets that surround you on every side and you can barely hit with some weapons?

And way too many enemies could spot you from a mile away and just never give up the chase.

That plus the awkward movement, the spotty collisions, the dumb Adaptability stat for i-frames and the gimmick locations/battles (The Gutter, Smelter Demon) made for an inferior experience. Which is too bad, because the abundance of locations and the variety of available paths was staggering. I still like it more than anything in DS3 with its unflinching enemies and basically useless magic.
 

Soodanim

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I absolutely hated DS2’s reliance on mob battles and extreme aggro. Managing 2 bosses at the same time was peak Dark Souls, so they thought, why not 3? Or 5? Or a whole squad of fucking midgets that surround you on every side and you can barely hit with some weapons?

And way too many enemies could spot you from a mile away and just never give up the chase.

That plus the awkward movement, the spotty collisions, the dumb Adaptability stat for i-frames and the gimmick locations/battles (The Gutter, Smelter Demon) made for an inferior experience. Which is too bad, because the abundance of locations and the variety of available paths was staggering. I still like it more than anything in DS3 with its unflinching enemies and basically useless magic.
Oh god, I forgot about ADP. What a terrible idea.

I watched some footage of 2 the other day, and the rolling animations in particular looked terrible. Like the roll after the dive happens on a treadmill. I don't understand why, even if you want to not give players an easy ride (3 did this with attack delays) you would completely cock up a constant on which the gameplay is based.

Mr. PlayStation Mr. PlayStation so you're aware in case you do decide to play 2 more: the roll you relied on (possibly) in 1 is now entirely affected by Agility, which means those i-frames you're used to is now a sliding scale, and you need to level AGL to 110 to match 1's rolling.

I like 3, less than 1 in a number of ways, and I'm still not sure how I feel about poise changing. It, like 2, encourages big weapons. (Again, for the uninitiated, poise in 3 only applies to attack animations as opposed to 1 where it applied to everything). I think I'd like 3 more if I hadn't played 1 first.
 

DavidGzz

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Yep, I LOVE DS but besides atmosphere, Dark Souls is just better. I wish I could snap my fingers and give it the makeover DS got.
 

Clear

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Demon's Souls felt like a much more cohesive and solid game to me. 2/3 of Dark Souls are briliant but there were areas that felt very unfinished and brought down the experience (when compared to Demon's).
I love both games but i would gladly take the lore,atmosphere and mysticism of Demon's Souls over the briliantly interconnected level designs of Dark Souls.

I agree with this. Dark Souls great as it is, is far from perfect, especially towards the end.

Personally having played it through enough times to really get to grips with its differences to the other games in the series, my favourite of the specific Souls' games is DS2:SotFS. Its rejection by a lot of self-proclaimed "hardcore" fans pretty much killed the series going forwards; resulting in the disappointingly moribund and relatively charmless 3rd entry.

I guess in retrospect the (what I feel to be) excessive internet adulation of Dark Souls has kinda soured me on it. I enjoyed the remaster, but far less so than I expected and its late game shortcomings stood out more than I remembered.
 
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ethomaz

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It is a great game but a letdown when compared with Demon’s Souls.

While Dark Souls had improvement in mechanics it lost the soul in environment, atmosphere, characters, bosses and world building.

And I miss so much World Tendencies.
 

rofif

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I absolutely hated DS2’s reliance on mob battles and extreme aggro. Managing 2 bosses at the same time was peak Dark Souls, so they thought, why not 3? Or 5? Or a whole squad of fucking midgets that surround you on every side and you can barely hit with some weapons?

And way too many enemies could spot you from a mile away and just never give up the chase.

That plus the awkward movement, the spotty collisions, the dumb Adaptability stat for i-frames and the gimmick locations/battles (The Gutter, Smelter Demon) made for an inferior experience. Which is too bad, because the abundance of locations and the variety of available paths was staggering. I still like it more than anything in DS3 with its unflinching enemies and basically useless magic.
Sounds more like You are talking about scholar of the first sin or ds2 dlc.
Vanilla DS2 is not like that. That's why it's my fav.
I really like ds2. The complaint about adp is valid but the game goes up to level like 150 in a base game. And You need like 20 adp if You want to roll. if You play super tanky, then You don't need to do adp. So it's not a bad idea. It's just more flexibility

The dlc is super gank squad + trap combo galore... so are some of the enemy placements in scholar version
 
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DJ Shalad

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No shitty Dark Root Garden in Demon´s Souls. No veggies, tree-huggers in the game or headless t-rexes, makes Demon´s Souls automatically the better (designed) game.
I hate swamps, forest levels. Fighting trees? in a souls games? is like going to antarctica (in a Diablo game) to fight evil penguins. As dumb as having to fight giant snakes in Diablo 2.

Demon´s Souls and its eerie sound, level design (mind flayers bells) of Tower of Latria, the flying ganksquad in Shrine of Storms with its highly-annoying undead inhabitants, whole Boletaria Palace up to the false King, Storm King encounter and funny weapons like the stormruler, the Valley of Defilement or the "mesmerizing" lava tunnels of the Burrow King.

Nothing in Dark Souls comes close to Tower of the Queen. Be able to fight as the boss is just perfection. Blighttown was prolly Dark Souls best designed level, Painting of Arthritis was cool and Sens Fortress was gimmicky at best.

I love Demon´s Souls PS3 with its archaic mechanics in place, makes we wanna replay it in PBWT+7 (if there was a mod, a way to enable it from the start).
 
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VictorVectors

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I adore them both equally. I just started Dark Souls 2 and EviLore EviLore let me tell you it's just not clicking for me. I am at the very opening sections (orangey brown location overlooking the seas) the character movement feels like he's on ice skating, feels weird to move and run. My knight character looks like a Kingdom hearts meets Final Fantasy character model :(, the location itself feels like something from Final Fantasy and not from Souls. Where the hell is the shield? I start as knight but there no shield :( I am just not feeling it and I've put this on hold and moved over to Jedi Fallen Order.
That was the right move!

AA souls-like games The Surge 2, Nioh 2 and Jedi Fallen Order are phenomenal and outclass Dark Souls 2 by a huge margin.

At the end of the day, you'll find yourself in front of Dark Souls 3, which is the greatest hits album. Remember I told you that. Keep "greatest hits" in mind and you'll be absolutely thrilled.
 

VictorVectors

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Looks like they missed Ash Lake, the craziest location in the entire game imo
I watched a trailer for the remastered version and got excited about the new locations! Is that a new dragon?!? Awesome! Turns out, not new content. I just didn't find that originally because I had never thought to attack the wall. Behind the hidden wall. Behind a chest. At the end of the lake. At the bottom of Blighttown. Far from the bonfire.

Who ON EARTH found Ash Lake on their own without a guide?!?
 
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skit_data

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I watched a trailer for the remastered version and got excited about the new locations! Is that a new dragon?!? Awesome! Turns out, not new content. I just didn't find that originally because I had never thought to attack the wall. Behind the hidden wall. Behind a chest. At the end of the lake. At the bottom of Blighttown. Far from the bonfire.

Who ON EARTH found Ash Lake on their own without a guide?!?
I actually got there without a guide somehow when playing it back in 2012 on my PS3 (how i even survived blight town is also a mystery).

I guess i attacked every single chest after the first mimic so i guess i somehow managed to discover the illusory walls. Really wierd the more i think about it!

I remember playing every area are out of order as well, i probably went back to some areas again when i started to become overleveled because i had no idea how to progress.
 
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Clear

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That was the right move!

AA souls-like games The Surge 2, Nioh 2 and Jedi Fallen Order are phenomenal and outclass Dark Souls 2 by a huge margin.

At the end of the day, you'll find yourself in front of Dark Souls 3, which is the greatest hits album. Remember I told you that. Keep "greatest hits" in mind and you'll be absolutely thrilled.

Leave Nioh/2 out of it. TN's games are so content rich especially in regards to the combat systems they make all of From's games look lazy. Nioh's fighting system is just better, because that's where its focus is, not the plot or atmosphere.

Dark Souls 3 is, sadly, just a rehash. You can tell Miyazaki and co were just not "feeling it". Play it through once and you'll have a good time for sure, but once you realize that all the endings are brief and interchangable, adding nothing to the lore, its hard to persevere with. Even the DLC, which is legitimately really good, has the same issue insofar as it goes absolutely nowhere and just abruptly stops after you kill the last boss. Its just not especially rewarding for long term play.

DS2 on the other hand adds a shit-load of new stuff both gameplay-wise and story-wise in its DLC areas and there's actually interesting stuff to discover and unlock. Yes DS2 starts slowly, but thats because its much more of a RPG than the other games. You have more stats to manage like ADP, but, they all serve a purpose in making you feel actual character growth. Similarly all the complaints about "gank squads" is mostly due to people just running blindly into traps and ambushes. Brume Tower is actually quite puzzly, you need to think carefully about how to tackle certain areas in order not to get overwhelmed. That's not a bad thing.
 

Kokoloko85

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Demon Souls was the first and in some ways has better atmosphere than Dark Souls to me in some areas Dark Souls wins in atmosphere.
Overall I prefer Dark Souls, Lore, more areas and size of the game.

Dark Souls is a top 10 favourite game of mine, I love both though. Game design wise. Dark Souls.
Would love a Bluepoint remake of it.

Bloodbourne beats both to me. The lore, the world, from the streets and weapons, the atmosphere is unmatched to me.
The lovecraftian / victorian gothic world and story = Love
 
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rofif

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Sep 13, 2019
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I am yet to play demons as soon as ps5 arrives(I never played ps3 original)... All other souls games are my absolute favs.
So I am a bit afraid the wait might not be worth it now :p
 
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