• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

News Drama Cringe LOL: Half-Life: Alyx New Mod Allows Game to Be Played Without VR Headset ---- [IT ONLY TOOK 5 DAYS]

nani17

Member
May 3, 2018
1,791
3,334
505
VR isn't a gimmick at all. I'm an on old-school KB mouse player that laughed at Wii, 3DTV, and Kinect. Those were gimmicks. VR has ultra hardcore flight and racing sims, and AAA exclusives(not just half life either). The only difference is you're inside the videogame with VR, everything is life-sized and has depth perception.

I agree with that in terms of sims it has it's place
 

Virex

Abrasive, but well-meaning
Jan 26, 2018
4,316
10,465
875
South Africa
Nah man I don't have an issue with you playing it however you want, however there are two fundamental issues at play here that need to be taken into consideration:
  • The game was not created to be played in 2D so the "quality" of said game while playing it via an unintended method is not a reflection of the games actual quality. A lot will be lost in translation so to speak.
  • If you buy the game to modit and play it in 2D then you are sending out the wrong message if you are "against" VR and it's growth. In doing so you are actually supporting a VR game and future VR projects, even if that wasn't your intention.
So play the modded game by all means, just don't go crying if your experience is pants compared to those playing it from the intended perspective. Also don't cry when the next game is also VR, you helped support it.

 
  • Fire
Reactions: Elektro Demon

MiguelItUp

Member
Feb 24, 2015
5,634
4,498
555
Wow, so much hate. I think it's actually pretty cool that someone got this far with modding it, but obviously there's a lot of work to do.

There's a lot of thirsty HL fans that have been anxiously waiting for a sequel, so I don't blame them for wanting to try to play it without buying VR. But, I mean, if I was in that boat, I'd probably just watch a playthrough.

I own the game, but haven't given it a chance yet as I'm still stuck on DOOM Eternal, I'm almost certain that it's going to make me sick too. I fired it up for a few minutes on launch and it was having all kinds of issues, and in those few minutes I felt kinda sick. Apparently a lot of kinks were fixed and new drivers were released so I'm sure it'll be better, but surprisingly I'm in no rush. I mean, I'm excited for a new Half Life experience, but I think I'd be a lot more excited if the experience was a different one.
 
Last edited:

Wonko_C

Member
Jul 5, 2010
5,284
1,596
1,125
Cancun, Mexico.
I just hope those who play it on a monitor don't blame the game afterwards, and just keep in mind they're not playing the intended experience. Even with a playable mod it will be missing out all the cool interactivity and shit.

This DF video explains it all very well:

 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Elektro Demon
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
It's an insult to the devs to play it this way, but they said they expected it to happen. Have not fun playing it in 2d. Can't wait for the hoards of dumbass luddite user reviews to come in.

It is like playing Virtua Cop without the light gun like someone said earlier...but way worse. Virtua Cop was on rails anyway and a flat monitor either way. 2D Alyx is taking out true, stereoscopic 3D, wide field of view, 6 DoF (degrees of freedom) head and hand tracking, plus the fact that the whole damn game was designed to be played as if you were actually "in" the game. It's a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" kind of thing. It's fundamentally different tech on every level.
 
Last edited:

DynamiteCop!

Member Series S
Mar 3, 2018
5,066
12,551
840
It's an insult to the devs to play it this way, but they said they expected it to happen. Have not fun playing it in 2d.

It is like playing Virtua Cop without the light gun like someone said earlier...but way worse. Virtua Cop was on rails anyway and a flat monitor either way. 2D Alyx is taking out true, stereoscopic 3D, wide field of view, 6 DoF (degrees of freedom) head and hand tracking, plus the fact that the whole damn game was designed to be played as if you were actually "in" the game. It's a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" kind of thing. It's fundamentally different tech on every level.
They won't be able to pick up most crucial items in the environment which have many core functions, they won't be able to do most of the puzzles many of which are required to advance in the game.

The environments are scaled much smaller for close quarters encounters. Enemy count is lessened because a high count is not required for tense combat scenarios in VR. Pacing is dramatically slower because the intricacy of environmental interactions and requirements in them is ramped up.

Not only would this be an abysmal experience outside of VR, I'm flat out telling you it would be impossible to beat. These people are pushing for something that is great as intended but broken, unbeatable and damn near unplayable as not intended.
 
Last edited:

DynamiteCop!

Member Series S
Mar 3, 2018
5,066
12,551
840
Why are people so mad?💁‍♂️
No one is mad, the people pushing for this 2D nonsense have no contextual understanding of the impossibility of the proposition. Here's a great example.

There's a point in the game where there is an entire room filled with laser mines and explosive barrels, you have to hack them to advance. In order to do this you not only need to lean and bend down in this 3D spatial environment, you have to contort the multitool in every direction in 3D to solve the puzzle which deactivates them.

This is one of about a hundred different situations that is simply not possible to do outside of a VR environment. This 2D nonsense has no chance or hope of ever working, people are wasting their time, the core of the game is designed around a method of control and interaction which cannot be done outside of its intended use.
 

diffusionx

Banned
Feb 25, 2006
14,718
15,101
1,650
VR isn't a gimmick at all. I'm an on old-school KB mouse player that laughed at Wii, 3DTV, and Kinect. Those were gimmicks. VR has ultra hardcore flight and racing sims, and AAA exclusives(not just half life either). The only difference is you're inside the videogame with VR, everything is life-sized and has depth perception.

This, VR is a genuine game changer, it is revolutionary.

That said, Robin Walker in an interview said he wants to see modders do this. It works out great for Valve. They made the game they wanted to make, they fulfilled their vision, there is an objectively ideal and best way to play it... but now other people can hack it up and they sell more copies to VRlets.
 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: Elektro Demon

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
5,047
6,214
505
No one is mad, the people pushing for this 2D nonsense have no contextual understanding of the impossibility of the proposition. Here's a great example.

There's a point in the game where there is an entire room filled with laser mines and explosive barrels, you have to hack them to advance. In order to do this you not only need to lean and bend down in this 3D spatial environment, you have to contort the multitool in every direction in 3D to solve the puzzle which deactivates them.

This is one of about a hundred different situations that is simply not possible to do outside of a VR environment. This 2D nonsense has no chance or hope of ever working, people are wasting their time, the core of the game is designed around a method of control and interaction which cannot be done outside of its intended use.

Exactly. At best this will feel like a hack, that's with years of polish.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Elektro Demon
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
Because they are invested both emotionally and financially.

I for one am very excited about the prospect of playing this 'normally'. By the time VR will be affordable this game will be yesterday's news so yeah, bring on Alyx Flatscreen!

It costs less than 200 bucks on ebay to find a Windows Mixed Reality solution. The "it's too expensive excuse" is nothing more than a veil of ignorance and stubbornness.

There are also other good VR games. Yes, some of us want to see VR grow, and this game condenses revolutionary aspects of what VR has to offer. Playing it in 2D is more pointless than just watching a playthrough. At least watching others play it in VR, you can see how it was intended to play. I'd like to think that when people realize how bad it plays, they'll think "hm, well it's probably way better in VR so I can't fault it for sucking", but we all know it will end up being "this game sucks so VR sucks, next Half Life better not be VR and I'm gonna complain on the internet and send death threats to the dev until they give in".

I'm not mad, it's just stupid.
 
Last edited:

DynamiteCop!

Member Series S
Mar 3, 2018
5,066
12,551
840
It costs less than 200 bucks on ebay to find a Windows Mixed Reality solution. The "it's too expensive excuse" is nothing more than a veil of ignorance and stubbornness.

There are also other good VR games. Yes, some of us want to see VR grow, and this game condenses revolutionary aspects of what VR has to offer. Playing it in 2D is more pointless than just watching a playthrough. At least watching others play it properly, you can see how it was intended to play. I'd like to think that when people realize how bad it plays, they'll think "hm, well it's probably way better in VR so I can't fault it for sucking", but we all know it will end up being "this game sucks so VR sucks, next Half Life better not be VR and I'm gonna complain on the internet and send death threats to the dev until they give in".

I'm not mad, it's just stupid.
I got a Rift CV1, two sensors and the touch controllers all with the box in excellent condition for $200 on Offerup, people are not being realistic about the cost involved here. Also isn't it ironic that it's always the PC gamers gloating about their expensive hardware, and calling console gamers plebs, but they're always bitching about the price of games, waiting for sales and the cost of VR...

Crazy..
 
Last edited:
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
I got a Rift CV1, two sensors and the touch controllers all with the box in excellent condition for $200 on Offerup, people are not being realistic about the cost involved here. Also isn't it ironic that it's always the PC gamers gloating about their expensive hardware, and calling console gamers plebs, but they're always bitching about the price of games, waiting for sales and the cost of VR...

Crazy..

Yeah, it takes a fuckton of mental gymnastics to have a $1000+ PC with a 144hz monitor, gaming mouse, mechanical keyboard, gaming chair, etc. but think spending a few extra bucks to play the next thing in gaming isn't worth it.

I mean I realize some people don't have all that stuff and maybe don't have a lot of money to splurge on things they're unsure about, but you can buy into the entire VR ecosystem for half the price of a medium-high end graphics card. It's not that expensive.
 
Last edited:

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
23,018
26,167
1,845
It costs less than 200 bucks on ebay to find a Windows Mixed Reality solution. The "it's too expensive excuse" is nothing more than a veil of ignorance and stubbornness.

There are also other good VR games. Yes, some of us want to see VR grow, and this game condenses revolutionary aspects of what VR has to offer. Playing it in 2D is more pointless than just watching a playthrough. At least watching others play it in VR, you can see how it was intended to play. I'd like to think that when people realize how bad it plays, they'll think "hm, well it's probably way better in VR so I can't fault it for sucking", but we all know it will end up being "this game sucks so VR sucks, next Half Life better not be VR and I'm gonna complain on the internet and send death threats to the dev until they give in".

I'm not mad, it's just stupid.

Yep I got my Lenovo Explorer for $100 a year and a half ago. It's also literally plug and play without any external cameras/sensors to get it set up. People who don't want to experience VR are simply making excuses at this point. You don't need to play at max settings either to experience it.
 
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
Yep I got my Lenovo Explorer for $100 a year and a half ago. It's also literally plug and play without any external cameras/sensors to get it set up. People who don't want to experience VR are simply making excuses at this point. You don't need to play at max settings either to experience it.

Nice! Exhibit A, everyone. Just buy a headset.
 

Elektro Demon

Shits and Giggles
Nov 9, 2019
4,382
7,619
815
Croatia
www.youtube.com
Yeah, it takes a fuckton of mental gymnastics to have a $1000+ PC with a 144hz monitor, gaming mouse, mechanical keyboard, gaming chair, etc. but think spending a few extra bucks to play the next thing in gaming isn't worth it.

I mean I realize some people don't have all that stuff and maybe don't have a lot of money to splurge on things they're unsure about, but you can buy into the entire VR ecosystem for half the price of a medium-high end graphics card. It's not that expensive.
But I don't want to. It's not about the money. There are people who just don't wanna change. And that's perfectly fine.
 

DynamiteCop!

Member Series S
Mar 3, 2018
5,066
12,551
840
But I don't want to. It's not about the money. There are people who just don't wanna change. And that's perfectly fine.
And there's people who refuse to buy next-gen consoles for years or refuse to upgrade their PC hardware, and guess what? They don't get to play the games.

Thus is life, you need the required peripherals, hardware and components to continue playing the latest and greatest stuff.

I couldn't care less about these kind of complaints, don't have it? You can't play it, it's that simple. The world doesn't need to rework itself for you, you either adjust to it or take a hike.
 
Last edited:

Elektro Demon

Shits and Giggles
Nov 9, 2019
4,382
7,619
815
Croatia
www.youtube.com
And there's people who refuse to buy next-gen consoles for years or refuse to upgrade their PC hardware, and guess what? They don't get to play the games.

Thus is life, you need the required peripherals, hardware and components to continue playing the latest and greatest stuff.
Nah man, you just need mods to remove cancerous content from games and let normal 2d people play it.
 
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
But I don't want to. It's not about the money. There are people who just don't wanna change. And that's perfectly fine.

It is absolutely fine. And if you do play the game and understand that it's not the way the game was intended to play, that's also fine. My point is that while some like you may understand that, it's most certainly not the way things are going to turn out.

Right now Alyx is being lauded as a return to form for Valve. Playing this game in 2D will undo that. And that's not good for, well, anybody.
 

Al3x1s

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nov 24, 2018
5,309
4,748
675
This is just one example of countless of how it wouldn't work.

You can barely tell he's moving the tool in 3D space in some of those examples without the stereo 3D vision in VR, haha, since it's such small distances. Like those parts in Super Mario 3D Land that with 3D off just look flat...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Elektro Demon

DynamiteCop!

Member Series S
Mar 3, 2018
5,066
12,551
840
You can barely tell he's moving the tool in 3D space in some of those examples without the stereo 3D vision in VR, haha, since it's such small distances. Like those parts part in Mario 3D Land that with 3D off just look flat...
Yeah, it looks very 2D but it's most certainly not.
 
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
Because they wasted 1000 bucks on shitty glasses that are useless 5 days later.

Anyway i would not buy the game just to give valve a signal that locking games in VR only on PC is not acceptable.

Exhibit B. Edgelord gamer in his natural habitat. Drive by posting in his corner of the gaming forum ghetto.
 
Last edited:

Screamer-RSA

Member
Nov 19, 2018
1,174
2,014
540
Can the modders also fix the dumb as fuck puzzles and AI?

An improvement in the gameplay loop would be nice, 90% of it is sifting through boxes.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Elektro Demon

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
5,047
6,214
505
Even something like Astrobot, which has less VR interaction would be absolutely shit without VR. People are watching these games in 2d youtube videos thinking it'll work in 2d. That's the problem, you're missing 99% of the effect by WATCHING VR. I think some people are confused thinking you put on these googles and its some 3DTV bullshit, its not like that a tall, it places you inside the gameworld.
 
Last edited:

VN1X

Banned
Apr 21, 2016
1,510
2,415
705
It costs less than 200 bucks on ebay to find a Windows Mixed Reality solution. The "it's too expensive excuse" is nothing more than a veil of ignorance and stubbornness.
Wait it only costs $200? And then I don't need a PC or any other sensors or special controllers?
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
5,047
6,214
505
Wait it only costs $200? And then I don't need a PC or any other sensors or special controllers?

No, no special controllers needed. A PC yes, but everyone knows that.

But for $200, the Samsung Odyessy + is a fucking beast kit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GHG