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LittleBigPlanet Official Thread: Live in your world, play in ours.

Lance Bone Path said:
I don't think the cool pages system ever worked except in the beta, but arguably the notion of "cool" is broken at the core and, also arguably, cool pages reflects the brokenness of the world where celebrity exists in and of itself (such as in reality television). This is perhaps an argument that cool pages by being broken is not actually broken; the world itself is broken.

LBP is perhaps the most meta game ever.

I completely agree. They should have players label by genre and the front page should only be filled with levels that are personally recommended to you after a week of the game "monitoring" your tastes. So if you've been looking for and playing racing games, then the front page features the most played and highest rated racing levels (you choose which with a button press).

I'm also sick of all the e-peen stroking that goes on when a popular creator releses something new. Last time I played one, it was so fucking borked and it's only redeeming value was the detail which is nice, sure... but it sure as hell isn't fun. When I can't find a button that's placed on a ceiling that needs to be headbutted (and makes no sense) with shitty camera angles, it should not be 5-starred. If it takes an unorthodox and unweildy approach to navigate your levels, it should not be as highly recommended as it is. But with the simpletons out there, looks is all that matters but if it were a real game, tose levels would be ridiculed for their lack of responsive controls and terrible level design... you know it.
 

Teknoman

Member
I think thats the problem. Sure its nice to have a really detailed level, but dont just focus on insane detail and let everything else fall by the side.

EDIT: Speaking of which, has anyone tried to create a survival horror series in LBP? With zombie motions and multiple sackbots, as well as improved lighting, i'm thinking that might be better suited for LBP2.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Okay, I purchased PS+ for DL LBP. I'm now playing again for the first time since being in the beta. Spent the last day restarting the project I undertook during the beta.
 

Madman

Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I completely agree. They should have players label by genre and the front page should only be filled with levels that are personally recommended to you after a week of the game "monitoring" your tastes. So if you've been looking for and playing racing games, then the front page features the most played and highest rated racing levels (you choose which with a button press).

I'm also sick of all the e-peen stroking that goes on when a popular creator releses something new. Last time I played one, it was so fucking borked and it's only redeeming value was the detail which is nice, sure... but it sure as hell isn't fun. When I can't find a button that's placed on a ceiling that needs to be headbutted (and makes no sense) with shitty camera angles, it should not be 5-starred. If it takes an unorthodox and unweildy approach to navigate your levels, it should not be as highly recommended as it is. But with the simpletons out there, looks is all that matters but if it were a real game, tose levels would be ridiculed for their lack of responsive controls and terrible level design... you know it.
Mind naming the level in question?
Teknoman said:
I think thats the problem. Sure its nice to have a really detailed level, but dont just focus on insane detail and let everything else fall by the side.

EDIT: Speaking of which, has anyone tried to create a survival horror series in LBP? With zombie motions and multiple sackbots, as well as improved lighting, i'm thinking that might be better suited for LBP2.
I did. I had the setting done, but never finished it. It's just a bunch of pieces and concepts on my moon now.
 

netguy503

Member
I heard the Sacktue of Liberty costume is free this week on the PS Store.

Also, the image of LBMystique (sp?) from the Marvel Pack was released today if anyone more talented then me cares to put it in this thread. Thanks.:D
 

JRPereira

Member
Regarding the level quality: definitely a lot of good-looking levels that play like crap (played some really high detail spelunking map earlier with really unreliable jumps, annoying puzzles, and way too many areas that look like solid ground and yet crumble as soon as you land on it).

That and it seems that there are tons of extremely simple obstacle course levels that are almost entirely composed of hanging from things and using R1 to travel across the ceiling/swing from things.

Definitely not enough challenging, interesting, and good-looking levels out there.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
JRPereira said:
Regarding the level quality: definitely a lot of good-looking levels that play like crap (played some really high detail spelunking map earlier with really unreliable jumps, annoying puzzles, and way too many areas that look like solid ground and yet crumble as soon as you land on it).

That and it seems that there are tons of extremely simple obstacle course levels that are almost entirely composed of hanging from things and using R1 to travel across the ceiling/swing from things.

Definitely not enough challenging, interesting, and good-looking levels out there.

You are not looking hard enough.
 

JRPereira

Member
TTP said:
You are not looking hard enough.

Yea, definitely not. I've mostly just been either in the level editor or going through the horrible "cool" levels feature. I checked out a few in modus's list though and they were pretty good.
 
JRPereira said:
Regarding the level quality: definitely a lot of good-looking levels that play like crap (played some really high detail spelunking map earlier with really unreliable jumps, annoying puzzles, and way too many areas that look like solid ground and yet crumble as soon as you land on it).

That and it seems that there are tons of extremely simple obstacle course levels that are almost entirely composed of hanging from things and using R1 to travel across the ceiling/swing from things.

Definitely not enough challenging, interesting, and good-looking levels out there.

Enjoy

oh and

13017storystoryfull7911.jpg
 
Madman said:
Mind naming the level in question?

I did. I had the setting done, but never finished it. It's just a bunch of pieces and concepts on my moon now.

It's called Submarine Sabotage. Here's my original comment about it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19100396&postcount=16710

It's made by the contra boys and sure, it does look pretty and has some neat ideas... but it's flawed. It could have been fixed by now. I have no idea. That's the last user level that was highly praised that I played. I'm just sick of that design philosophy I guess.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
GAF logic nerds, assemble!

I come to you bearing a problem that has my brain frizzled.

I'm creating an adaption of the Deal or No Deal gameshow. I have most of the design working, but am having trouble with a specific part.

Background:
The show's gameplay involves a series of briefcases, each of which contains a different prize value. The user chooses their own briefcase, and then opens up the remaining briefcases. Every time a briefcase is open, the value which was inside that briefcase gets eliminated from the board. At certian stages throughout the game the user is offered a 'deal', whereby they can choose to accept a monetary offer (based on a mean of the remaining case values), or continue opening briefcases.

What I have so far:
- System to randomise the prize values going into each case
- System to recognise which briefcase the user wants to open
- System to read the prize value of an opened briefcase and to eliminate that value from the board

What I'm stuck on:
- I need a way of calculating the bank's offers at certain points throughout the game. The bank offer needs to be related to (although not necessary exactly) the mean of the remaining case values.


Details:
I have 24 prize values, ranging from 1 to 500. Full list of prize values is included below...

Code:
PrizeID   Value
=================
 A           1
 B           2
 C           3
 D           4
 E           5
 F           6
 G           7
 H           8
 I           9
 J          10
 K          20
 L          30
 M          40
 N          50
 O          60
 P          70
 Q          80
 R          90
 S         100
 T         150
 U         200
 V         300
 W         400
 X         500

There are 8 instances when I need to calculate the average of the remaining/un-opened case values. Details of each instance is given below.
Code:
Cases opened    Cases remaining
since last
offer
================================
      6               18
      5               13
      4                9 
      3                6
      2                4
      1                3
      1                2
      1                1


So yeah. For the first bank offer, I need a system which can estimate the average of 18 case values, where the cases potentially add up to a total of 2124. :eek:




What I've come up with so far...

There appears to be two main ways of going about this:


Method 1) Find the sum of the remaining cases and then divide by the number of cases remaining.

For example, I have a bank offer when there are six cases remaining (case values: 6, 50, 80, 90, 200, 500)
Sum of remaining cases = 926
Remaining cases / number of cases = 926 / 6 = 154.3​


Method 2) Find out how much each case is worth as part of the offer (value/number of cases), and then find the sum of these values. (Opposite way around to Method 1)

For example, I have a bank offer when there are six cases remaining (case values: 6, 50, 80, 90, 200, 500)
Value for each case: 6/6=1, 50/6=8.3, 80/6=13.3, 90/6=15, 200/6=33.3, 500/6=83.3
Sum of values = 1 + 8.3 + 13.3 + 15 + 33.3 + 83.3 = 154.3​



My latest attempt used the second method. Rather than performing division operations in-game, I precalculated how much each case value would be worth if it were part of an offer.

Code:
PrizeID  Value (v)      v/18   v/13    v/9     v/6      v/4     v/3     v/2     v/1 
======================================================================================
 A           1     |      0	 0	 0	 0	  0	  0	  0	  1
 B           2     |      0	 0	 0	 0	  0	  0	  1	  2
 C           3     |      0	 0	 0	 0	  0	  1	  1	  3
 D           4     |      0	 0	 0	 0	  1	  1	  2	  4
 E           5     |      0	 0	 0	 0	  1	  1	  2	  5
 F           6     |      0	 0	 0	 1	  1	  2	  3	  6
 G           7     |      0	 0	 0	 1	  1	  2	  3	  7
 H           8     |      0	 0	 0	 1	  2	  2	  4	  8
 I           9     |      0	 0	 1	 1	  2	  4	  4	  9
 J          10     |      0	 0	 1	 1	  3	  3	  5	 10
 K          20     |      1	 1	 2	 2	  6	  6	 10	 20
 L          30     |      1	 2	 2	 6	  6	 10	 16	 30
 M          40     |      2	 2	 5	 5	 10	 12	 20	 40
 N          50     |      3	 3	 5	 8	 13	 15	 25	 50
 O          60     |      3	 5	 5	10	 15	 20	 30	 60
 P          70     |      3	 5	 8	10	 20	 23	 35	 70
 Q          80     |      5	 5	 8	15	 20	 25	 40	 80
 R          90     |      5	 5	10	15	 20	 30	 45	 90
 S         100     |      5	 7	10	15	 25	 35	 50	100
 T         150     |      8	10	15	25	 35	 50	 75	150
 U         200     |     10	15	20	30	 50	 60	100	200
 V         300     |     15	25	35	50	 75	100	150	300
 W         400     |     20	30	45	65	100	135	200	400
 X         500     |     25	35	55	85	125	165	250	500

Going back to the example before, I would need to find the sum of the v/6 values of each of my cases.

Actual case values: 6, 50, 80, 90, 200, 500
v/6 values from table: 1, 8, 15, 15, 30, 85
Sum of v/6 values = 154​



Using this method, the task simply becomes a matter of finding the sum of pre-calculated values


With this in mind, I design the following system in my level.

zBPxC.jpg


Each column represents a different case value. There are 8 rows of dissolveable blocks -- one row of blocks for each bank offer. The dissolveable blocks contain magnetic keys, which include information about the v/18, v/13, v/9, etc values. At the very bottom is a series of magnetic switches which reads the value of the dissolving block immediately above it.

DNEmO.jpg


The bottom row of dissolveable blocks contains the v/18 values. Once the v/18 values have been used to calculate the first bank offer, the bottom row of blocks is dissolved and the v/13 blocks fall onto the detector. Once the v/13 values have been used for the second bank offer, they too are dissolved and the v/9 blocks fall onto the detector.

The white base which holds the detector is also made of dissolving material. Each time a case is opened, the base holding the detector for that specific case disappears. The detector falls away and is unable to read values from the v/18, v/13, etc blocks, so it assumes a value of 0.

Example of apparatus using the same example as before:
oti41z.png


Even though all v/6 values are present in the apparatus, there are no detectors underneath the eighteen already-opened cases. The only values detected by the apparatus would be 1, 8, 15, 15, 30 and 85. The sum of these values would be my average for the unopened cases (154).

What I need to do now is find a way of quickly and reliably adding those numbers together. Any suggestions? Or any other completely different approaches which would be better?
 
Tntnnbltn said:
What I need to do now is find a way of quickly and reliably adding those numbers together. Any suggestions? Or any other completely different approaches which would be better?
I haven't done anything as complex as what you're doing, so you should take the following advice with a grain of salt.

I'm going to guess you want to feed the results into a numeric display; it might be easier to work with 3 four-bit digital counters (that go from 0 to 9) since that would probably make it easier to remap the outputs to your display (assuming that you want to display the result in base 10).

There should be some sort of trough or bucket that collects the increment blocks your detectors will produce. You should allow increments of 1, 10, and 100, since you'll already have logic for dealing with overflow on the 1s and 10s counters and you will probably not need a lot more logic to deal with two more types of increments. It will probably be better than trying to deal with 500 1-increment blocks.

You'll need detectors to take your counter results and feed them into decoders that will connect to a set of 10 emitters. What you emit could be something simple like a dissolve block with a number sticker, but you could get fancy here and do something with LEDs.
 

Jaeyden

Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
It's called Submarine Sabotage. Here's my original comment about it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19100396&postcount=16710

It's made by the contra boys and sure, it does look pretty and has some neat ideas... but it's flawed. It could have been fixed by now. I have no idea. That's the last user level that was highly praised that I played. I'm just sick of that design philosophy I guess.


To be fair, I am the only "Contra" boy that worked on that level. Wexfordian, fullgorr and I made it during the water beta and we only had three days to do it. I know the part you're talking about and it certainly could be confusing to some. In all honesty I don't think that any of us thought our beta levels were ever going to see the light of day to begin with. But for three days of building, I think it actually turned out quite well. Should that part have been different? Probably, but how much hand holding do we incorporate into our levels? It's hard because we're just normal people...not professional level designers...trying to make some fun. Finding that sweet spot where everyone loves your level is really difficult. One person says "too easy" the next says "too hard".

I don't know if the creator that made that part has since changed it, but the copy published on my moon is the same copy we had in the beta.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Lance Bone Path said:
There should be some sort of trough or bucket that collects the increment blocks your detectors will produce. You should allow increments of 1, 10, and 100, since you'll already have logic for dealing with overflow on the 1s and 10s counters and you will probably not need a lot more logic to deal with two more types of increments. It will probably be better than trying to deal with 500 1-increment blocks.
Can you describe this part in more detail?





I currently have two versions of the column apparatus, with the dissolving blocks keyed differently in each. On one version I have the v/18, v/13, etc blocks coded in binary, and in the other version I am using a customised coding system.

The following table shows the value of each colour key in my custom coding system:
Code:
             VALUE
           PER KEY:  A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H
===========================================================
COLUMN 01            1    -    -    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 02            1    2    -    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 03            1    3    -    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 04            1    2    4    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 05            1    2    5    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 06            1    2    6    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 07            1    2    7    -    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 08            1    2    4    8    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 09            1    2    4    9    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 10            1    3    5   10    -    -    -    -
COLUMN 11            1    2    6   10   20    -    -    -
COLUMN 12            1    2    6   10   30    -    -    -
COLUMN 13            1    5   10   20   40    -    -    -
COLUMN 14            2    5   10   20   50    -    -    -
COLUMN 15            3    5   10   20   60    -    -    -
COLUMN 16            3    5   10   20   70    -    -    -
COLUMN 17            5    8   10   20   40   80    -    -
COLUMN 18            5   10   20   30   90    -    -    -
COLUMN 19            5    7   10   20   50  100    -    -
COLUMN 20            5    8   10   20   50  100    -    -
COLUMN 21            5   10   20   50  100  200    -    -
COLUMN 22            5   10   20   50  100  300    -    -
COLUMN 23            5   20   30   40  100  200  400    -
COLUMN 24            5   20   30   60  100  200  500    -
So if there is a dissolving block with keys A (Blue), B (Purple) and D (Orange) in column 23, that dissolving block has a value of 5+20+40=65. The same three keys in column 24 would represent 5+20+60=85.

The good thing about the above system is that it easily breaks things up into Ones, Tens and Hundreds. I would love to find a simple system where I can add up the Ones, then separately add up the Tens (+ carry over from the Ones), etc.

I initially tried to do this with a series of extending pistons, where the length of the piston being extended is related to the value of the key that activates it. For example, if Column 1 Key A is detected then a piston extends by a factor of 1. If Column 12 Key C is detected then a different piston extends by a factor of 6. A magnetic key/switch on the final piston would read how far the total system has extended.

I tried creating such a system to find the sum of my Ones, but there's ~52 different keys that can be activated for the Ones column alone. Turns out that pistons aren't that precise when you have 52 in a row.


I've also tried emitting different height blocks down a column, with the intention of doing the same thing (measuring the total height of the Ones, then doing the same for the Tens, etc). Problem here is that my 52 different possible switches for the Ones add up to a total of 194, so I need a column that is at least 194 blocks high. Taller actually, because you need one block space in-between emitter spawn locations otherwise objects get blocked from spawning. At heights of >200 blocks you start getting a lot of side effects such as spontaneously crushed/disappearing objects.
 

JRPereira

Member
Ended up releasing my second level - "Tristan's lost journey (prototype)". Got too many good ideas and too rough a start to continue working on it, so I just wrapped up what I had.

Next one should be a good bit better.
 
I've thought about it some more and I think there's a better way than using a binary representation on your counter. We should probably just go with base-10.

I think the increment blocks should be implemented as plasma balls with magnetic key(s). I don't think you should allow these blocks to stack, but you will need to space out these increment blocks so that you never have to handle any more than one summation at a time. This would create problems if we limit ourselves to increments of 1, 10, 100, so...

The detector at the bottom of the "bucket" should be completely replaced depending on what its value is, so there are 10 different detectors total (encoding 0 to 9).

I think increments of 1 through 8 will probably be ideal since you only have 8 colors to work with. You can get up all 9, but that will require putting up to 2 keys on your increment blocks and having to decode that; I think the time savings from being able to encode 1 more increment will be lost from the time that additional logic will take. (Also, I think you only have very few cases of needing to encode an increment of 9 which would only means an increment of 8 and an increment of 1 with encodings only for 1-8).

So, then the detector should have the following things:
One shot magnetic sensor(s) for each type of increment you need to detect
Hooked up to that, a mechanism for creating an overflow increment block and a mechanism for replacing the detector with a detector for the new result
A set of magnetic keys that encode the result in a location that will be common for all these detectors

There are a number of ways this could be implemented, but I would lean toward making the detectors completely out of poison gas and having them move in and out via pistons. You could also put them all on a big wheel and have the wheel perpetually spinning and have spin blockers to put the right detector in place, for instance. You might also make the whole thing out of dissolve and emit them into place, but emitting solid material into a place that requires a tight fit is annoyingly tricky.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
I think I solved it. I'll write up a description once I have it all programmed and working.

Ended up having a series of emitters on each of those dissolving blocks instead of keys. When the read moves under them, they emit 0-9 "ONES" keys, 0-9 "TENS" keys, 0-5 "HUNDREDS" keys. For each key that is emitted, a magnetic switch causes a large wheel to rotate by 36 degrees. Counting the output of each (active) dissolving block takes a total of 0.9 seconds (0.1 keys emitted per second x maximum of 9 keys per emitter)
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Some of the info here is similar to my last huge post, but I've changed some stuff anyway so I thought I'd go over it all again. :)


JLnZG.png


Rather than creating an in-game system that can divide numbers ranging from 1 to 250 by denominators of 18, 13, 9, 6, 4, 3 and 2, I precalculated how much each case would be worth if it were part of an average under each circumstance. The values I used are shown in the table below.

w6Np4.png


For example, if I wanted to find the average of four cases, where the total case values were 10, 50, 90 and 150, all I would have to do is find the sum of 10/4 + 50/4 + 90/4 + 150/4. Using the above table, this is roughly 2 + 10 + 20 + 40 = 72 (actual average is 75).


In order to represent these values in-game, I created a huge series of dissolving block columns. Each block in each column is coded with the same information shown in the table above. Values were coded with sets of emitters: a HUNDREDS emitter, a TENS emitter and a ONES emitter. Each type of emitter emits a different coloured key, and the number of keys emitted depends on the value of the block.



g2Qt0.png



The use of dissolving blocks have several important implications:

1) Once a deal has been offered and rejected, the lowest row of blocks is dissolved and the next row falls into place. This new row contains information for the following bank offer, and hence a single detector system can be used for each of the 8 bank offers.

2) When a case is 'opened' and removed from gameplay, the dissolving block base that supports the column is removed and the entire column falls away. This means that the detector will no longer read values from this case, and these cases will not contribute to the next calculated bank offer. In the previous example of finding an average of cases worth 10, 50, 90 and 150, there would only be four columns of dissolving blocks remaining at this stage of the game, and hence finding an average of these cases just involves finding the sum of blocks available to the detector.​



RzCLR.png






Dissolving blocks design details - Click for pic
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
u7zP4.png



The second component of the system is a moving detector attached to a piston. The detector is positioned just beneath the columns of dissolving blocks, and moves from right to left. As it passes under each block, three things occur:


1) Two switches on the detector act as piston control. An AND logic system located elsewhere determines if the detector is in front of a column of blocks, and if the block immediately above the detector contains useful information (some blocks are left intentionally blank). If both conditions are met, the detector pauses for 1.0s.

2) A key on the detector panel activates the magnetic switch on the dissolving block above. This in turn activates the dissolving block's set of emitters. Each emitter can emit up to 9 keys at a rate of 0.1 keys per second (hence the need for a 1 second pause).

3) Magnetic switches on the detector panel read the number of keys emitted by each type of emitter, and feed that information into the next part of the system.​




Detector design details - Click for pic



Detector operation - Click for pic
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
wwAei.png


The final part of my system involves an incremental wheel motor. Credit for this idea goes to Tamland from LBPCentral. You can read their summary of incremental bolt design here.

Basically, if we know the speed of a motor and we know the duration it has been switched on, we know how far it will have turned. If you turn on a bolt motor for a very short duration (0.1 s) then you can make the bolt meter spin a fraction of the wheel. Altering the speed of the bolt meter will alter how much it spins.

The incremental bolts receive information from my moving piston detector. The emitters on the dissolving blocks emit keys with lifetimes of 0.1s. These keys activate switches on the detector, which then turn the wheel. The speed of the bolt meter is set so that the wheel turns 36 degrees (or one tenth of a circle) every time a key is detected. It is possible to then measure how far the wheel has turned using a combination of magnetic switches and keys.

Given that my emitters already emit separate values for ONES, TENS and HUNDREDS, I set up three of these wheel systems next to each other. Each wheel takes in input from a magnetic switch on the detector. Hence, one wheel spins when ONES are emitted, the second wheel spins when TENS are emitted, and the final wheel spins when HUNDREDS are emitted.


5R2FV.png


Whenever a wheel has performed a full rotation and has returned to the origin (i.e. 'reached 10'), a unit has to be added to counter of the next order of magnitude. My initial approach involved adding extra emitters at the end of the detectors path, depending on how many units I needed to carry over.

An alternative approach, which worked much simpler to implement, was to add a second layer to the wheel. The second layer (which contains switches positioned at the origin) is directly in line with the first layer, and is also controlled by a motor bolt. The main difference is that the second layer rotates in the opposite direction. Given that the second layer contains the switches used to detect position, this is effectively the same as rotating the first layer by an extra position.

For example, every time my ONES counter performs one full rotation, Switch D on the second layer is activate. Switch D sets off the flipper piston housed beneath the counter, which in turn has a duration of 0.1 s. A switch at the flipper piston then causes the second layer wheel on the TENS counter to move 36 degrees in the opposite direction to the first layer wheel.




Counter schematic - Click for pic



Counter design details - Click for pic



Final thermometer temperature for averaging system: 40%. It's big, but I doubt I'll be able to get it any smaller. 90% of that heat comes from my array of emitters.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Right now I'm working on a system that will multiply the bank offer by 50 for displaying, because my points system at the end will be in multiples of 50.

Currently it can multiply the values, but I still need to display the numbers on an LED array. Trying to find a way that's not particularly inefficient.
 

Wowbagger

Member
Tntnnbltn said:
Final thermometer temperature for averaging system: 40%. It's big, but I doubt I'll be able to get it any smaller. 90% of that heat comes from my array of emitters.

Haven't read your detailed explanation of your setup, but this caught my eye. You probably know, but just in case: you can save a whole lot of thermo by setting emitters Max At Once as low as possible.

The thermo usage of a section in my next level went from roughly 70 to 25 percent when I reduced Max At Once for all emitters from the default 5 to 1. :lol
 

Ranger X

Member
Tntnnbltn said:
Right now I'm working on a system that will multiply the bank offer by 50 for displaying, because my points system at the end will be in multiples of 50.

Currently it can multiply the values, but I still need to display the numbers on an LED array. Trying to find a way that's not particularly inefficient.

Oh boy, you'd better display numbers by emitters that LOOKS like digital numbers instead of trying to make a led panel. A led panel is EXTREMELY taxing on the thermo.

.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Wowbagger said:
Haven't read your detailed explanation of your setup, but this caught my eye. You probably know, but just in case: you can save a whole lot of thermo by setting emitters Max At Once as low as possible.

The thermo usage of a section in my next level went from roughly 70 to 25 percent when I reduced Max At Once for all emitters from the default 5 to 1. :lol
The max at once is 1 for all of my emitters. The problem is that there's over 150 of them.


Ranger X said:
A led panel is EXTREMELY taxing on the thermo.
Not necessarily. I already constructed the panel, but now I'm having problems with some of the previous bits. *sigh*
 
Tntnnbltn said:
Right now I'm working on a system that will multiply the bank offer by 50 for displaying, because my points system at the end will be in multiples of 50.

Currently it can multiply the values, but I still need to display the numbers on an LED array. Trying to find a way that's not particularly inefficient.
If you multiply the bank offer by 100 instead, you would be making your life a little easier.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
My set of briefcases, freshly redesigned:

cnsyC.jpg


VP4Er.jpg


CKYkR.jpg


Briefcases are made of dissolving material, so they can be moved by the user in-game. The invisible switch on the handle is so I can tell if the briefcase has been pushed down the briefcase opening chute (which has a key inside).

The font is Future Tense Condensed from Lite_Sleeper's Font Cache level.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Logic is really coming together now. :)

DnW7R.jpg

My good old counters from the last post. Now freshly colour coded and labelled.


s1yH7.jpg

A forced reset system. Pistons on the left are extended if the associated counter wheel is NOT set to zero. If the reset switch has been activated, then the pistons on the right will extend. If both are extended, emitters sitting above the detector will spit out coloured keys until the wheels are all set to zero.


rSPdq.jpg

I've advanced the logic system for detector movement. When the detector is at the start ("HOME"), it cannot move again until the previous sum has been cleared ("RESET"), and the next bank offer is about to occur ("READY").

Once moving ("AWAY"), the detector now stops for a different amount of time under each dissolving block. For blocks that emit 5 keys or less, the detector will stop for 0.5 seconds. For the 24 dissolving blocks that emit >5 keys, the detector stops for a full second. Decreases the time that the detector takes to read all values by quite a bit.


3momP.jpg

My system for multiplying the counter output by 50. The length of the extended pistons determines the value of each digit in the output. There are switches on the final piston that read keys placed along the edge, and these switches turn on or off various sets of lights on the LED display.


10mtH.jpg

My LED display. Just looks like a jumble of wires in create mode. :-/


cxDc0.jpg

Close-up of an LED block. This one is currently set to 0.
 
Jaeyden said:
To be fair, I am the only "Contra" boy that worked on that level. Wexfordian, fullgorr and I made it during the water beta and we only had three days to do it. I know the part you're talking about and it certainly could be confusing to some. In all honesty I don't think that any of us thought our beta levels were ever going to see the light of day to begin with. But for three days of building, I think it actually turned out quite well. Should that part have been different? Probably, but how much hand holding do we incorporate into our levels? It's hard because we're just normal people...not professional level designers...trying to make some fun. Finding that sweet spot where everyone loves your level is really difficult. One person says "too easy" the next says "too hard".

I don't know if the creator that made that part has since changed it, but the copy published on my moon is the same copy we had in the beta.

Don't mind my ranting. I'm just jealous because I don't have the patience to make my own levels that come anywhere as close to what's offered from the cream of the crop =P.

But I really do wish to see more fun+innovation over detail+technical sophistication. I am glad that part 2 seems to make doing a lot of this stuff easier so piloting robots and jets won't be nearly as janky and pathetic as it is now. I passed on so many levels because of the horrid mech controls out there.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Randomiser:

Dissolving block wheels, each spinning at a different speed, hold the 24 different case values. The player acts as a seed for the randomiser, dissolving the blocks with a proximity sensor. When the blocks dissolve the case values fall down through a series of ledges and moving platforms. They finally roll down a slope next to a series of pistons. The order of the case value balls in the final section determines which value is associated with which briefcase.


j90tx.jpg

Case value randomiser


rifEb.jpg

Final section of randomiser before values are released


vHzQL.jpg

Final section of randomiser after values are released


w8XFK.jpg

A piston above the case values extends each time a briefcase is opened. This triggers the switch on the case value, which then performs neccesary actions.


Test gameplay:

Gameplay is up to the stage where you can shove briefcases off a ledge and values are removed from the board. Here are photos from the test-run I just did.
The 250,000 was in Case #2

BIobp.jpg
ShVqM.jpg
qe1c8.jpg
Bhucu.jpg
0i7dV.jpg



Todo:
  • Create a system that measures how many cases are opened so I know when to go to a bank offer
  • Create a system where the user is presented with the bank offer, which they can then accept or deny
  • Create a system that gives users points depending on the value of the offer they accept / the value of their case
  • Graphics & set design
 

Carl

Member
Tntnnbltn, that means nothing to me, but you are clearly putting a hell of a lot of effort into your level :) Will have to play it when you finally finish it!
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I just want to

:bow Tntnnbltn

and say that I'll come back to read through your work in time. Thanks for posting it :)
 

Peterthumpa

Member
Holy shit at what some guys here can do with this game.
I think that if Duke Nuken Forever was using LBPs set of tools, it would be ready for primetime right now. :lol
 

JRPereira

Member
So what's the general consensus? Is it worth investing weeks upon weeks of time, racking up a minimum of 40 or so hours on a level, with so much going against it seeing the light of day/getting any plays at all?

Tntnnbltn's obviously putting in an enormous amount of effort into his level, and I can imagine it could very well be pretty popular, but certainly not through the cool levels list and probably not the currently in-game discovery tools - he's pretty much had to do something news-worthy and youtube-worthy to get noticed at all.

With how finicky the level editor can be and the amount of time required to do something truly great, I'm having trouble justifying spending time working on levels that would be extremely lucky to break 10 playthroughs and get a heart at all.
 

Madman

Member
JRPereira said:
So what's the general consensus? Is it worth investing weeks upon weeks of time, racking up a minimum of 40 or so hours on a level, with so much going against it seeing the light of day/getting any plays at all?

Tntnnbltn's obviously putting in an enormous amount of effort into his level, and I can imagine it could very well be pretty popular, but certainly not through the cool levels list and probably not the currently in-game discovery tools - he's pretty much had to do something news-worthy and youtube-worthy to get noticed at all.

With how finicky the level editor can be and the amount of time required to do something truly great, I'm having trouble justifying spending time working on levels that would be extremely lucky to break 10 playthroughs and get a heart at all.
It depends on what you want. If you just like making levels, than building is worth it. If you want to make popular levels, you need to promote or get lucky.
 

JRPereira

Member
Madman said:
It depends on what you want. If you just like making levels, than building is worth it. If you want to make popular levels, you need to promote or get lucky.

It was fun to get familiar with the tools, but IMO it's not fun to spend tons of time creating an awesome level when you can hardly share it with anyone (if anyone at all).

I hope littlebigplanet2 solves it. Creating a few basic levels in littlebigplanet has swayed me from wanting to preorder littlebigplanet2 to wanting to wait at least a few weeks post-release and see whether things have improved.

The other thing that kills me is that there are so many really poor levels by just about any standard that get decent ratings, lots of play-throughs, and a good amount of hearts. It's almost like they're choking out the truly good stuff. Having to go outside of the game to find and promote good levels pretty much guarantees low play counts unless it gets picked up quickly enough to where people swarm on it in-game.
 
JRPereira said:
It was fun to get familiar with the tools, but IMO it's not fun to spend tons of time creating an awesome level when you can hardly share it with anyone (if anyone at all).

I hope littlebigplanet2 solves it. Creating a few basic levels in littlebigplanet has swayed me from wanting to preorder littlebigplanet2 to wanting to wait at least a few weeks post-release and see whether things have improved.

The other thing that kills me is that there are so many really poor levels by just about any standard that get decent ratings, lots of play-throughs, and a good amount of hearts. It's almost like they're choking out the truly good stuff. Having to go outside of the game to find and promote good levels pretty much guarantees low play counts unless it gets picked up quickly enough to where people swarm on it in-game.
It really depends on your expectations. I have only published 2 levels, one has a 1000+ plays & 50 hearts, the other 700+ & 30 hearts. I only promoted them here and with one topic on LBP central. I used RangerZero method to get the plays, which involves posting the hell out of the level in it's first week.

They are only average levels, which I made for my kids. But I was very happy with the number of plays. I did play test them a lot, so at least they are not broken.
 
Spaff recently posted this on the LBW

Hey all,

I just wanted to pop along to say that we are aware of the issue with Cool Levels at the moment, and are working to fix it!
Hold on to your hats, it might take a little while longer, but we think we've worked out the best way of addressing it now.

cheers!

hope its soon
 

JRPereira

Member
Looks like some sort of patch went out. Any idea what it does?

The cool levels feature is still full of bomb survival and jump/obstacle course maps ....
 

netguy503

Member
JRPereira said:
Looks like some sort of patch went out. Any idea what it does?

The cool levels feature is still full of bomb survival and jump/obstacle course maps ....

Um...maybe you missed the Marvel announcement?
 
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