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Lately, I am a little worried about the processing power of PS5/series X. Am I alone?

Even PS6 probably wouldnt be able to do that lol.
I mean, ultimately, you're making an assumption about performance based on your assumption on price.

A PS5 Pro could in theory be more expensive than a PS6.

Models change, just look at the iPhone. The original iPhone was $499 and by iPhone X it was $999.

I think we assume to much to think that the console market isn't going to change at all and that it will just quietly go away in lieu of the cloud and streaming.

I think you're going to see companies test the market and how much the market is willing to pay for consoles especially with GPUs costing 1000 plus in many cases.
 

Codes 208

Member
I mean, what were you expecting with $500 modified laptop set ups? Even before the covid shenanigans when prices were inflated, there was several graphics cards that cost as much if not more than either consoles.

If having the best possible graphics at tye best possible framerate is a priority to you above all else, youve already picked the wrong platform
 

Fbh

Gold Member
Assuming you can get them at MSRP I think they offer great hardware for the price, right now more so than ever with the ridiculous GPU prices on PC
If you want to max out games at native 4K 120fps with full Ray tracing go buy a $4K+ PC, because as far as I'm aware even the 3090 will struggle with that
 
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Stuart360

Member
I mean, ultimately, you're making an assumption about performance based on your assumption on price.

A PS5 Pro could in theory be more expensive than a PS6.

Models change, just look at the iPhone. The original iPhone was $499 and by iPhone X it was $999.

I think we assume to much to think that the console market isn't going to change at all and that it will just quietly go away in lieu of the cloud and streaming.

I think you're going to see companies test the market and how much the market is willing to pay for consoles especially with GPUs costing 1000 plus in many cases.
I wasnt judging it soley on price. A 3090 struggles to 4k/60 games with Ray Tracing without having to use heavy DLSS., and i doubt any PS5 Pro would be more powerful than a 3090. likewise i doubt PS6 would be anywhere close to 3 times the power of a 3090, which is what PS6 would probably need to be to run a current gen game at 4k/120 with RT.
 
I am a huge fan of graphics technology in games but is undeniable for me how much more pleasurable Is to play games at 60fps instead of 30fps, specially games with first person view and games that require aim.

Today I was playing the campaign of Crossfire X and it feels really terrible in 30fps, like if the game is almost in slow down.
Even loving the feel of 60fps, I had to play Ratchet and clank, Miles Morales, guardians of the galaxy, forza horizon 5, all in graphics mode because honestly the 60FPS version had always big trades in visuals.

Now with even digital foundry thinking that is better to play Forbidden West in graphics mode because of the lack in image in the performance mode, I am really getting worried about the power of this new consoles.

Dont get me wrong, the games nowadays are beautiful for me, but honestly, apart from that demo of hellblade 2 ( that looks clearly a 30fps game for me), I am really not seeing some really new rendering revolution, apart from the so hyped ray tracing, that justifies so many restrictions for this games running in 60fps with the visuals of the graphics mode.

I am not a technical guy so, I honestly don’t know what can really be achieved in this new consoles but seeing amazing technical wizards developers like Guerrilla Games, Playground Games, Insomniac and some others having to make sacrifices to make his games run in 60fps is a little worrying in my opinion.

I think I will be totally ok if the games could have graphics mode with ray tracing/30fps and the performance mode being 60fps without ray tracing but with the exactly same other graphical features of the graphics mode but that isn’t happening.

I would love to read more of the more technical guys here of the forum about this.
This machines are really already being pushed to its limits that 60fps is not achievable with the visuals of the Horizon Forbidden West and Forza Horizon 5 in his graphics mode for exemple?
Can't relate.
The only thing thats sure is that both consoles lack in terms of RT performance.
 
They’re good enough. Cross gen just needs to end.

We need a switch 2 though because damn there’s an even bigger gap than 360/ps3 > Wii right now between switch and ps5 power.
 

ToxicWeeb

Banned
I find this new generation of consoles super weak, but if there's one thing they got right is enabling the 60 fps performance mode.

I don't know how can you guys care so much about graphical fluff, 60 fps is the real game changer.
 

The Shepard

Member
I am weary of last gen support hampering game development.

This, this is the problem. Once both first parties start putting out next gen only games we'll finally see some more major improvements in the graphics department. Till then we are still in the cross gen period.
 

hoplie

Member
I could never ever play a game again with such a low image quality like Matrix Awakens has.
We need midgen refreshes as soon as possible. I would be perfectly fine with graphic mode at 60fps and some power left for a little bit more RT.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
We're still in the cross-gen phase, people. Once current-gen only titles start coming out, a lot threads will be revisited.

And they'll be replaced by threads bitching about 30fps and low resolution by people upset their $399 console from 2020 doesn't run amazing next gen graphics at 60fp and 1440p+

I wish all the graphics mode ran at 60 fps, that would be enough for me. Don't like having to choose between graphics or performance.

The only way that's going to happen is if Sony/MS start releasing premium versions of their consoles for $2000+ (and even then it's only going to last you a couple of years), or if tech reaches some roadblock and stagnates to the point you can get the most powerful hardware for cheap.

When the Ps5/SX launched there was already a GPU on the market which alone was literally 3X the cost of the entire console (and that's at MSRP, good luck finding a 3090 for that price now). In a scenario like that you'll never get a $500 console that doesn't have to sacrifice visuals for performance (or the other way around)
 

hoplie

Member
When the Ps5/SX launched there was already a GPU on the market which alone was literally 3X the cost of the entire console (and that's at MSRP, good luck finding a 3090 for that price now). In a scenario like that you'll never get a $500 console that doesn't have to sacrifice visuals for performance (or the other way around)

You can‘t compare those prices, cause nvidia needs to make money with the hardware, Sony/MS not.
 
We are not at the point of affordable hardware pushing 60+ FPS at 4K in demanding games. I don’t know why anyone thought these consoles would. Even top end NVIDIA GPUs can struggle with it.
 
Consoles will never be powerful enough because devs will always choose to put the extra resources in more effects, better lighting, higher resolutions before they prioritize frame rate.

Frame rate is king on PC because you can lower the quality of the picture, or simply upgrade your PC to max everything out.

However, even on PC, you're at the mercy of what "max" means by the developer. Yes, I know there are mods, but I'm just talking generally assuming you're not into modding your games.
 

Fahdis

Member
I'm gonna be a snob here and be as honest as possible ...

... If you're playing anything below 4K at 60 Fps. YNGMI.
 
Ratchet and Clank and Demon's Souls are the best looking games I've ever played and I had both in 60fps. So not really.
Are you talking about Spiderman's 60 fps RT mode? Because it looks so barebones compared to the non-rt 60 mode and even worse next to the 4k/30 fidelity mode.

Seriously, it's nice and clean from an image quality pov but the settings are drastically reduced.

I agree with you about Demons Souls though. That is one of the best looking games on any platform at 60 fps. Why? Because they didn't have to turn down graphics settings to get it running at 1440p and it has great image quality thanks to smart dev choices in how they went about upscaling the resolution.
 

rofif

Gold Member
I want more options.

Why can't I have 60fps with nice graphics at 1080p ?

Its everything at 4k or bare bones 60fps.

A few toggles in the menus would be welcome. Give us top graphics, performance and user defined plz!
I want less options. With all these modes, there is always a feeling of choosing a mode that's never the best. It was always there but now it is exposed "you know, you can play 1080p60..."
F that. I want console to be run and go. Now when a ps5 game comes out, you need to check out digital foundry coverage because you can't have any idea what mode is what resolution an target with what drawbacks. If there are options on the console but no way to say what resolution or fps is game running at... then it feels like a bad pc and not this magical powerful device :p

Anyway - I am impressed by ps5. I have 3080 and the ps5 is doing WHAT for 400/500 bucks ?! Are you kiddin me ?! Demons Souls?! Returnal?! Horizon?! no loading times ?!
 

iHaunter

Member
Nope. We’ve had 120fps games for the first time ever. There is plenty of horsepower under the hood.

Hell, there could be a 3090 equivalent under the hood and devs would still find ways to brute force solutions as opposed to optimizing and coding the solution. My only negative is the terrible RT performance which is really an AMD issue.
RT was great on Ratchet and Spiderman though.
 
I'd say "these machines aren't for Ray Tracing!!" ...
... but Ratchet and Clank 40fps mode keeps telling me I'm wrong.

I think it's a matter of developers needing to prioritize different aspects of fidelity and performance very early... which is MUCH more difficult than it sounds.

To make the best looking games possible... how important is polygon count ? What's the ideal trade-off between resolution, performance and fidelity? What's the best upscale method ? What are the most visually effective ways to cheaply use raytracing ? Is the game outdoors, indoors or somewhere else... and what does that mean for what game engine you should select ?

Its almost impossible to get the right answers to all of these questions early in development and properly plan around them.... but as some developers hit the right notes others will take notice.
Yes! This. So much of how good a games visuals comes down to whether the devs made the right choices with how they achieve their res/framerate targets.

Did they choose upscaling methods that made sense for a particular game? For example: marvels avengers and now Horizon:FW's 'performance' modes seem quite disappointing and take huge hits to image quality because of their decision to not only use checkerboarding but also use DRS where the dynamic res drops a lot from the upper bounds. If those games stayed around 1800p CB maybe they would've stayed nice and clean looking but they dont apparently.

Dying Light 2 offers 3 different modes but none of them are very satisfying because each mode only does one thing well at a time. Framerate with a crap resolution or resolution with a crap framerate. Dev choices
 
This, this is the problem. Once both first parties start putting out next gen only games we'll finally see some more major improvements in the graphics department. Till then we are still in the cross gen period.
Yes, we will but at the expense of framerate. Which is understandable. I just hope devs still give us a choice to play at a lower settings, 60 fps too.

I think 1440p ish/60 fps should always be offered as a minimum. No more 1080p crap unless you've got some excellent upscaling solution. If the game is too demanding at 1080p/60 then drop whatever effects you need to get to 1440pish.

Dying Light 2 showed me that 1080p/60 is a disappointing minimum for resolution. There has to be a way to play with good image quality at 60 fps otherwise the devs have made the wrong choices.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
You can‘t compare those prices, cause nvidia needs to make money with the hardware, Sony/MS not.

Yes? and that's exactly why consoles usually offer a great price to performance ratio, like they are doing right now. Please show me a PC build from zero that matches Ps5 performance and visuals for $399.
Neither Sony nor MS make their own CPU/GPU, they still have to buy them from a third party manufacturer that still has to make money from it. Bulk buying doesn't translate to 99% off.

You said it yourself, Sony/MS basically sell their consoles at a loss or with little to no profit. Meaning that at launch the ps5 and SX had the best possible hardware that 2 big multi billion dollar companies could put in them for $499 ($399 for the Ps5) and it still wasn't even close in performance to the best hardware on the market.

So my point remains, if you want a console that doesn't make you choose between performance or visuals, then you need to be ready to spend a lot more on it. As long as consoles continue to focus on being affordable, manufacturers will never be able to put the best available hardware in them, and as such there's always going to be sacrifices that need to be made.
 
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CosmicComet

Member
If you're worried now you'll be even more worried 5 years into the gen when it's clear that a new gen is still nowhere near in sight.

This gen is going to drag on longer than any prior due to the chip shortages and these systems will seem archaic and underpowered long before even an inkling of a new gen surfaces.
 
Microsoft has a console for you, it's called a PC. It's only around 4.000 $ right now with a decent GPU to outperform current gen.

Jokes aside, me personally I'm 100% satisfied with 60fps at literally whatever graphical fidelity. To me framerate is most important of all and I accept no compromises.
 

93xfan

Member
I truly believe we will see much better graphics as the gen goes on. With that said, not finding it hard to just be content.
 

Romulus

Member
There's limits to what a 10 TF GPU with a so-so CPU (in 2022 terms) can do - and for 500 bucks. Even extreme engineering talent and money will hit hard physical limits.

Maxed 4k "next-gen" visuals and 60+ fps aren't happening on current console hardware.

Its a massive improvement over last gen. The so-so cpu compared to the jaguar was basically a demigod to a peasant. The jaguar was ass long before it even came out in the consoles.
 
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Boneless

Member
I really hate that they started to give the option of graphics vs performance. It's an annoying choice you have to make and both options give you FOMO.
 
I'm honestly very surprised by the lack of FSR options in console Games. Why not have a native 30fps mode and a fsr performance 60 mode? I think it's better option than the current scaled back everything 60fps modes.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Say my name. Say it.

r/retiredusername

And OP, just wait till mid and late gen, PCs have always raced ahead in comparison, but that doesn't mean developers tailoring for console hardware won't floor us with what's to come, it's still very early. FSR will be a nice upgrade for performance savings in games that use it. New algorithms for making better use of RT on AMD hardware have also come by and are being worked on.
 
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assurdum

Banned
I really want to understand what kind of expectations have the op about at 399 bucks machine. In my opinion what ps5 offers is miraculous.
 
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Nah, these consoles are on a whole different playing field to previous few generations. Amazing storage, powerful desktop equivalent CPUs and awesome GPU power.

You’re never going to get Ultra settings 120fps but you’ll get great looking games at reasonable resolutions and only have paid £450 or regional equivalent. Absolute steal of a price.
 
Honestly I am just happy to see there are some native 4k60 games even if they are cross gen, it bodes well for the future. The only thing these consoles seem truly limited by is RT performance.

I have played crash 4, borderlands 3 which are 4k60 and about to play re8 which is nearly 4k60 as well.

I bring up crash and borderlands because they were 1080p60 but not locked 60 on ps4 pro, but locked 4k60 on ps5… that is a huge jump.

Earth defense force on ps4 was choppy as fuck on ps4 but they run beautifully on ps5 BC. Might not seem impressive but the developers were pretty much trying to get the fps to buckle… so the fact that it doesn’t is awesome.

I’m happy with ps5 performance.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Devs just need to rework their engines to run at 1080p or ideally 1440p with great image Reconstruction techniques and we will be fine. Raytracing is a no no on these consoles, it just ain’t going to happen to an incredible extent like it is on pc. Current AMD gpus just ain’t good enough.

im more than happy with what we have but theee is deffo some outliers like horizons 60fps mode.

I think you just have to be realistic in what these consoles can do. They aren’t some magical boxes. They are pretty much a known qty and there will need to be trade offs to hit 60fps. If devs make their engines with 60fps in mind they will be able to do some awesome tricks to provide a crisp clear image at 60fps.
 
I'm perfectly happy with the PS5 power. That said, I do wonder how powerful its graphics will be when rendering for the future PS VR, with all the penalties that brings to the equation.
 

Barakov

Member
I am a huge fan of graphics technology in games but is undeniable for me how much more pleasurable Is to play games at 60fps instead of 30fps, specially games with first person view and games that require aim.

Today I was playing the campaign of Crossfire X and it feels really terrible in 30fps, like if the game is almost in slow down.
Even loving the feel of 60fps, I had to play Ratchet and clank, Miles Morales, guardians of the galaxy, forza horizon 5, all in graphics mode because honestly the 60FPS version had always big trades in visuals.

Now with even digital foundry thinking that is better to play Forbidden West in graphics mode because of the lack in image in the performance mode, I am really getting worried about the power of this new consoles.

Dont get me wrong, the games nowadays are beautiful for me, but honestly, apart from that demo of hellblade 2 ( that looks clearly a 30fps game for me), I am really not seeing some really new rendering revolution, apart from the so hyped ray tracing, that justifies so many restrictions for this games running in 60fps with the visuals of the graphics mode.

I am not a technical guy so, I honestly don’t know what can really be achieved in this new consoles but seeing amazing technical wizards developers like Guerrilla Games, Playground Games, Insomniac and some others having to make sacrifices to make his games run in 60fps is a little worrying in my opinion.

I think I will be totally ok if the games could have graphics mode with ray tracing/30fps and the performance mode being 60fps without ray tracing but with the exactly same other graphical features of the graphics mode but that isn’t happening.

I would love to read more of the more technical guys here of the forum about this.
This machines are really already being pushed to its limits that 60fps is not achievable with the visuals of the Horizon Forbidden West and Forza Horizon 5 in his graphics mode for exemple?
Honestly, you shouldn't be worried by the processing power, both PS5 and the Series X/S are find on that front. The bigger problem will is the graphics solutions in these consoles. RIght now I think we're good. I think as this gen goes on it'll become more of a problem like the processors were in PS4/Xbone.
 

spawn

Member
I'm playing 6 year old games on ps4 pro and I think they look amazing. I also grew up gaming in the 90's so I'm not overly impressed by graphics.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Nah, these consoles are on a whole different playing field to previous few generations.

if you only said previous generation you would be right, but "previous few"? nah. the og Xbox and Xbox 360 were absolutely high end at the time of release. only the last generation was worryingly behind the times especially in terms of CPU performance.

last gen was an outlier
 

Tschumi

Member
Sorry, another Tschumi post dumping on an op for their honest, if disagreeable, contribution...

... Are you hanging off the end of a rope consisting of knotted console specs? Is it not as strong as you thought? Because if that's the case then use of a term like "worried" would fit.

Furthermore:

I once had a friend who got freaked out at the start of things. I would wait and see, generally, but this guy used to act like getting in a taxi to go to a sports match = losing that match. You're being naive, the first round of AAA titles in this system won't all be released for a while yet, most of those that have are (criminally!) Cross gen, and you're reckoning you've seen enough to worry you on these specs?

PS5 is closer to PS3 than PS4 in terms of scope for gradual improvements, it seems to me, maybe it won't be 4k60, but within a year or two AAA games will be coming out with huge technical breakthroughs that would not have been possible on ps4, and that's all we should expect.

Horizon here, FW, it's a godsend because anti-horizon (and anti-ps) fanboys haven't found anything to say about this gorgeous game beyond "well I think the colours are bland and NOBODY is gonna dissuade me." Maybe it's cross gen but it's the best looking release so far. That's down to the skillful developers, it'll only get better.

This forum is full of people who convince themselves by degrees that they're industry savants in video game graphics, even those of you who are vetted aren't much use it seems, but then you get surprised and all you can say is "I'm surprised" by the first genuinely anticipated effort to come out looking good.. give it a rest wouldja....
 

MrMephistoX

Member
Why worry? You know the die was cast last Gen XSXXX and PS5 pro will come in like 2 years and even then you probably won’t be able to find them on shelves easily.
 

Pallas

Gold Member
Maybe PC is where you should be gaming at? But on a serious note, give devs time to unlock the full potential of these consoles. Past experiences will tell you the truly impressive games usually happen at the end of a consoles life span.
 
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