• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Rumor Kotaku: "sources" Say Microsoft is "in fact" making a second disc-less console (Lockhart) along with Scarlett despite Phil saying otherwise.

MilkyJoe

Member
Jan 29, 2014
11,830
7,872
885
It shows as 10% off for me because I have EA Access, but retail and digital don’t always go on sale at the same time. Next week when it’s on sale for the game awards check back.


Meh.. unless it's GwG or Resident Evil remake, I won't pay for something I cannot hold, I'm old skool
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
11,883
17,964
995
Works
Yes, but my son's PS4 needs to be the main console. That way, he can play my games and use my PS+ sub while logged in on his own account.

I can just use my own account on my own PS4, but because my PS4 isn't the main console, no other accounts on my PS4 can use my licenses or PS+ sub.

It won't work for more PS4 than two though, unless you can register multiple PS4s to your main account. But not aure about that.
Works exactly the same on Xbox. Make the second system your home and you share all games, gold and gamepass. The only downside is that the one that’s not the home has to be connected to the internet at all times to verify the ownership.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
11,883
17,964
995
Meh.. unless it's GwG or Resident Evil remake, I won't pay for something I cannot hold, I'm old skool
I used to feel that way. After getting used to digital and MS making my 360 games BC I got sick of going into my collection and pulling out discs so I rebought the ones I cared about digitally when they were on sale.

Plus with kids around and such if something ever happens they are all there on my account waiting to be downloaded again instead of rebuying damaged or stolen discs.
 
Last edited:

Psykodad

Banned
Apr 9, 2018
4,143
7,039
465
Works

Works exactly the same on Xbox. Make the second system your home and you share all games, gold and gamepass. The only downside is that the one that’s not the home has to be connected to the internet at all times to verify the ownership.
Makes sense.

Really hate that system though and that's exactly the reason why I'm against digital only/streaming. Very restrictive and the way it works atm is just a workaround that probably wasn't even intended.

We're just lucky it's just me and my son at home. If it's three or more, that'll suck.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kagey K

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
11,883
17,964
995
Makes sense.

Really hate that system though and that's exactly the reason why I'm against digital only/streaming. Very restrictive and the way it works atm is just a workaround that probably wasn't even intended.

We're just lucky it's just me and my son at home. If it's three or more, that'll suck.
Yeah 3 would suck as it would feel like a copy was wasted. You‘d have to up it to 4 and buy everything twice.

Ideally they would come up with a family share plan, where every system on your home network gets access to everything, but so many people would try to cheat the system, so I understand why they have a hard time making it work.
 
Last edited:

Psykodad

Banned
Apr 9, 2018
4,143
7,039
465
Yeah 3 would suck as it would feel like a copy was wasted. You‘d have to up it to 4 and buy everything twice.

Ideally they would come up with a family share plan, where every system on your home network gets access to everything, but so many people would try to cheat the system, so I understand why they have a hard time making it work.
Yeah.
You know, as much as I dislike MS, that family plan or whatever it was that they wanted to originally implement, wasn't a bad idea.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
12,649
7,025
805
I'm still amazed some people are buying discless XONE models. An Xbox One S isn't much more expensive and you're blocking yourself from buying used copies or games from good retail deals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,420
29,008
1,420
I'm still amazed some people are buying discless XONE models. An Xbox One S isn't much more expensive and you're blocking yourself from buying used copies or games from good retail deals.
Or from playing physical discs and later on trading them in.
 

Mista

Banned
Nov 21, 2014
20,414
35,345
1,420
The real question here is so what? It’s not like you’re forced to get it or it’ll have benefits over the other Xbox console. Get what you want and ignore what you don’t want

Not everything should turn into a fuss because “you don’t like it” as for me I never liked the disc-less idea even if I went fully digital since two-three years now. So most probably I’m getting the other version
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,737
7,399
740
Krynn
I'm not sure if 3rd party devs are going to like being forced to make 7 "versions" of their games in the first year or two of the new gen (ps4, ps4pro, PS5, X1, x1x, lockhart, scarlett).
Cross gen games are going to be messy (or less pretty/performing worse than they could be).
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
11,883
17,964
995
I'm not sure if 3rd party devs are going to like being forced to make 7 "versions" of their games in the first year or two of the new gen (ps4, ps4pro, PS5, X1, x1x, lockhart, scarlett).
Cross gen games are going to be messy (or less pretty/performing worse than they could be).
From what people have been saying about the SDK is that you make your game and then hit export and click off the systems you want it to code to., it does the rest.

It would be interesting to see how well it works, and what it breaks.
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,420
29,008
1,420
From what people have been saying about the SDK is that you make your game and then hit export and click off the systems you want it to code to., it does the rest.

It would be interesting to see how well it works, and what it breaks.
Q&A/Testing still needs to certify all versions though. There is no "play this for me" button anywhere for testers.
But it's not a big issue to publishers anyway, testers are already treated as discardable cheap labor as it is.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,737
7,399
740
Krynn
From what people have been saying about the SDK is that you make your game and then hit export and click off the systems you want it to code to., it does the rest.

It would be interesting to see how well it works, and what it breaks.
But you still have to deal with API differences between current gen and next gen, and the very different APIs between Xbox / playstation. It is very time consuming for devs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
11,883
17,964
995
But you still have to deal with API differences between current gen and next gen, and the very different APIs between Xbox / playstation. It is very time consuming for devs.
That’s why I suggested it would be interesting to see what it does right and what it breaks.

I don’t think that any game goes through the sausage grinder and comes out perfect on the other side.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,432
23,737
815
Yes, but my son's PS4 needs to be the main console. That way, he can play my games and use my PS+ sub while logged in on his own account.

I can just use my own account on my own PS4, but because my PS4 isn't the main console, no other accounts on my PS4 can use my licenses or PS+ sub.

It won't work for more PS4 than two though, unless you can register multiple PS4s to your main account. But not aure about that.

Ahh thanks, I’m familiar with this. I misread your original post assuming 2 sons, hence 3 ps4’s
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,805
15,307
655
Digital Foundry made a video on next gen consoles explaining that raw TFlop count won't be a good metric for gauging next gen consoles since there'll be greater improvements beyond that.

They did tests using the Navi cards to back it up.

Reminds me of the "balanced" console rhetoric bs Microsoft tried to push this gen when thy saw Xbox one was less powerful than ps4.

Either way its never just about tflops, it's about the whole package tht has held true for every Gen from the 16 but days when ppl didn't just take cpus into account but color palettes, sound Chios, etc.
 

mejin

Member
Oct 18, 2012
6,650
10,492
950
Brazil
Didnt Phil (or someone) already say they dropped the idea of the low powrred 1080p model?. My guess would be that it will just be a slightly cheaper diskless digital Scarlett, for the people that want to go full digital.

Phil is a compulsive liar.
 

MilkyJoe

Member
Jan 29, 2014
11,830
7,872
885
I'm still amazed some people are buying discless XONE models. An Xbox One S isn't much more expensive and you're blocking yourself from buying used copies or games from good retail deals.

This is why i am amazed at a diskless only base model
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,805
15,307
655
I'm one of em, because I can install the game on both my son's PS4 as well as mine.
Saves me money as I don't have to buy a game twice. 😉

This is me with even dlc 😁 I bought my son shadow keep for Christmas but we will both be playing the dlc off tht one purchase like we did the last destiny 2 dlc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

KlickKlack

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
494
619
335
It's bad for everyone.
A weaker Lockhart means games have to be made with Lockhart limitations (weaker cpu = less NPCs, worse AI , etc) and probably means another parity clause to prevent 3rd parties from making use of ps5 cpu since the ps5 version doesn't need to be hampered by a "lockhart".
tell me are there any AAA games which don't run on this GPUs?
gtx 1080 has 9TF and gtx 950 has 1,6TF....

but morons will tell us it will be more work for devs to make a game for 1080p scarlett light.... they make already all games scalable between 1,6TF - 10TF for PC.. no need for extra work... its propaganda from sony trolls.
Same with the CPUs... look which minimum requirement have a AAA games..... and?
What see you?

and now the funny part



Death Stranding Minimum System Requirements

  • CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD FX-8320
  • RAM: 8GB
  • HDD: 50GB
  • GPU: AMD Radeon R9 380 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB
  • OS: Windows 7 64 bit
  • DirectX: 11 Compatible
  • Screen Resolution: 720p

All games already are optimized for all this gpus
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: ResilientBanana

KlickKlack

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
494
619
335
I specifically mention CPU as the issue. Put that huge pointless image in a spoiler or something, its way too big.
Death Stranding Minimum System Requirements

CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD FX-8320


open your eyes...

and what tell us this?
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,737
7,399
740
Krynn
Death Stranding Minimum System Requirements

CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD FX-8320


open your eyes...

and what tell us this?
That you have a hard time reading posts.
If Lockhart has a weaker CPU, then Scarlett games won't be made at it's full potential, there will be only graphic upgrades because 3rd parties won't bother improving AI, npc count, Destruction, etc for the extra cpu power of the Scarlett.
Stop bringing pc stuff to a console thread. Posting a image list of gpus as an answer is ridiculous. Use words and explain yourself.
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
Oct 25, 2012
5,028
10,316
1,100
eh, i think the world is ready for digital now. i won't personally be buying a new console for along time but at the same time all the games i have are digital so. i don't see older gamers going back and forth to used games stores as often because we're all old and busy with work, family, etc. and you know these younger gamers are buying everything digital (for the most part).
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Slings and Arrows

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,930
7,396
830
Denmark
That you have a hard time reading posts.
If Lockhart has a weaker CPU, then Scarlett games won't be made at it's full potential, there will be only graphic upgrades because 3rd parties won't bother improving AI, npc count, Destruction, etc for the extra cpu power of the Scarlett.
Stop bringing pc stuff to a console thread. Posting a image list of gpus as an answer is ridiculous. Use words and explain yourself.

It won't. Could be lower clocked, but that won't matter.
 

ThaMonkeyClaw

Member
Apr 4, 2018
895
2,606
420
Yes, but my son's PS4 needs to be the main console. That way, he can play my games and use my PS+ sub while logged in on his own account.

I can just use my own account on my own PS4, but because my PS4 isn't the main console, no other accounts on my PS4 can use my licenses or PS+ sub.

It won't work for more PS4 than two though, unless you can register multiple PS4s to your main account. But not aure about that.

I'm all digital as well and this is exactly what I do with my daughter, her console is my primary and mine is secondary.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,731
14,844
2,000
Of course the disc won't be the only difference. The cheaper one will have a cheaper gpu as well.

And there is plenty of reason to question whether the cheap version is treated as the mainstream one. For instance, it they want to announce a much cheaper starting price on an E3 cage, and then market how cheap it is. And it would fit nicely with gamepass and streaming too.

Will my hunch prove true? No way to tell right now. But to say I'm off base because I wonder whether a streaming company who wants to win on price will make a cheaper version their main version, seems unwarranted.

Don't forget how crazy Wii probably sounded at first. A machine with last gen specs that you wave wands at?

That's not fair. Nintendo (if you only counted the software "game creation" side) is one of the best video game makers on planet Earth! That's not a fair comparison at all.
 

CasperDarling

Member
Nov 21, 2019
210
457
255
I'm still amazed some people are buying discless XONE models. An Xbox One S isn't much more expensive and you're blocking yourself from buying used copies or games from good retail deals.
I have not bought a disk based game this entire generation and never plan on buying a disk again. Plus with the constant Xbox Store and Playstation store sales throughout the year you can get those same good retail deals digitally all from the comfort of your own home.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,731
14,844
2,000
I have not bought a disk based game this entire generation and never plan on buying a disk again. Plus with the constant Xbox Store and Playstation store sales throughout the year you can get those same good retail deals digitally all from the comfort of your own home.

And you can do what you just said on every Xbox One and PS4 now. It doesn't have to be discless.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Slings and Arrows

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
12,649
7,025
805
I have not bought a disk based game this entire generation and never plan on buying a disk again. Plus with the constant Xbox Store and Playstation store sales throughout the year you can get those same good retail deals digitally all from the comfort of your own home.
Good for you, I like having options, especially to sell a game I didn't end up enjoying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

thelastword

Banned
Apr 7, 2006
11,732
11,949
2,000
I think Phil's surprise for Sony is that they will launch before the PS5...…...That will be interesting....
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,420
29,008
1,420
I think Phil's surprise for Sony is that they will launch before the PS5...…...That will be interesting....
Launching around March instead of November? If they need a full six months head-start, like with the 360, that does speak volumes of many things...
 

thelastword

Banned
Apr 7, 2006
11,732
11,949
2,000
Launching around March instead of November? If they need a full six months head-start, like with the 360, that does speak volumes of many things...
Yeah well, it wont have the hardware advantage that's for sure if that happens, so if Lockhart is back on, maybe they really are not chasing the hardware advantage afterall……...Unless they plan to release Lockhart ahead of Scarlett.....
 

Elektro Demon

Shits and Giggles
Nov 9, 2019
4,600
8,083
815
Croatia
www.youtube.com
I dislike this. If people want digital games, well they can download them on their ps5. But some people like physical discs and they should exist if there's a market for them.
But having 2 sku's at launch is just silly. I'm fine with having to choose from different hard drive sizes but choosing weather to get a discless version or not is not cool.
And it's just dividing their audience. I already dislike what they did with base ps4 and the pro variant. Consoles shouldn't have this kind of segregation.
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,420
29,008
1,420
Yeah well, it wont have the hardware advantage that's for sure if that happens, so if Lockhart is back on, maybe they really are not chasing the hardware advantage afterall……...Unless they plan to release Lockhart ahead of Scarlett.....
They would be trying to be the cheapest and first to market, and make the Lockhart their PS2.
 

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
2,539
6,272
510
I'm not sure if 3rd party devs are going to like being forced to make 7 "versions" of their games in the first year or two of the new gen (ps4, ps4pro, PS5, X1, x1x, lockhart, scarlett).
Cross gen games are going to be messy (or less pretty/performing worse than they could be).
You are right. This has plagued the PC gaming world for decades and they still struggle with it.
 

CeeJay

Member
Mar 9, 2014
1,087
1,287
625
I dislike this. If people want digital games, well they can download them on their ps5. But some people like physical discs and they should exist if there's a market for them.
But having 2 sku's at launch is just silly. I'm fine with having to choose from different hard drive sizes but choosing weather to get a discless version or not is not cool.
And it's just dividing their audience. I already dislike what they did with base ps4 and the pro variant. Consoles shouldn't have this kind of segregation.
How is it dividing their audience any more than say having a red and blue colour option?

choice <> division
 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,731
14,844
2,000
I dislike this. If people want digital games, well they can download them on their ps5. But some people like physical discs and they should exist if there's a market for them.
But having 2 sku's at launch is just silly. I'm fine with having to choose from different hard drive sizes but choosing weather to get a discless version or not is not cool.
And it's just dividing their audience. I already dislike what they did with base ps4 and the pro variant. Consoles shouldn't have this kind of segregation.

Completely agree.
 

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
9,246
10,253
980
That's not fair. Nintendo (if you only counted the software "game creation" side) is one of the best video game makers on planet Earth! That's not a fair comparison at all.
I wasn't taking a shot at Nintendo. Just referencing them to show what some people might have thought was crazy talk was actually brilliant.
 

sdrawkcab

Banned
Dec 2, 2018
206
313
270
It's not good for the industry and progression of game development and tech but it is 'smart' since MS obviously understand that a huge amount of their sales come from mothers who want to save a buck or two and are completely out of touch.

The moms couldn't resist the 110 dollar Xbox deals this Black Friday it seems...
People use that argument all the time, but I just don't see it.

Do low-end and mid-tier graphics card hold back the gaming industry as well? They don't. This really is no different.