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Killzone Shadow Fall (PS4) announced, launch title [1080p/30fps]

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Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Jun 8, 2004
28,318
2
0
Yes, Crysis 3 is doing real time reflections on many surfaces even on consoles
Some games even on PS2 had floor reflections (MGS2 was famous for this) It does look better here with distance-based material fogging of course, and the reflections also occur on non-floor surfaces which is what's so far been far more rare, or used very sparely and in very controlled situations for the most part.

Post I made earlier regarding new graphical additions/improvements I noticed with KZ SF
Things to improve

- Animations in places still janky
- Some textures could still do with a resolution bump
- Better quality standard NPC's (not military) and faces
- Could still do with some more pop or contrast in shadows, maybe stronger SSAO or something
- Actual skybox (not city scape) could do with more drama
I don't think these last two are a good idea. More contrast in shadows makes games look less real in my opinion, it's rare in real life to ever see strong, dark shadows, unless it's night of course. I also don't think dramatic skybox would be a good idea for the utopistic and serene looking futuristic city.
 
Oct 30, 2011
6,948
7,655
1,075
I'm not getting my hopes up for a open world RPG Killzone.

That being said, I'm hoping for the FEEL of a much more open world. Having such a large city as the main locale gives them the ability to make you feel like you're traversing through this massive area while still being linear. Eg. Seeing places during gameplay which you then visit later gives the feel of scope and exploration in a real world.

That's mostly what I'm suggesting, with the possibility to probably "fly" around the city and land at certain destinations and interact with NPCs. The city may act as a hub with discrete areas that you go to for missions. In a sense it will feel more open. Similar, but a bit more limited in comparison to something like Batman: Akrham City, a game which is largely a linear experience but is set in an open world.

Some games even on PS2 had floor reflections (MGS2 was famous for this) It does look better here with distance-based material fogging of course, and the reflections also occur on non-floor surfaces which is what's so far been far more rare, or used very sparely and in very controlled situations for the most part.


I don't think these last two are a good idea. More contrast in shadows makes games look less real in my opinion, it's rare in real life to ever see strong, dark shadows, unless it's night of course. I also don't think dramatic skybox would be a good idea for the utopistic and serene looking futuristic city.

I think the point of the "berlin wall" is to really provide for a big contrast in the game universe - ISA side being this lush, futuristic, thriving landscape (similar to western germany), while the Helghan side is more threatening, chaotic, and depressing (similar to how KZ2/KZ3 looked) resembling eastern Germany.

I'm excited because we haven't seen the futuristic ISA side of KZ yet....and it looks gorgeous so far.
 

Stark

Banned
May 11, 2012
5,435
0
0
Toronto, ON
That's mostly what I'm suggesting, with the possibility to probably "fly" around the city and land at certain destinations and interact with NPCs. The city may act as a hub with discrete areas that you go to for missions. In a sense it will feel more open. Similar, but a bit more limited in comparison to something like Batman: Akrham City, a game which is largely a linear experience but is set in an open world.

I have a feeling it will be this, too. They kind of tested such level design with Killzone 3 and the jetpacks, imo.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Jun 3, 2012
20,767
0
0
I keep hearing the animations are bad but I've watched this a few times now and I don't see it. They've done a fantastic job simulating realism.

People mention the stairs especially, it seems a bit rigid, possibly too fast as well. Soon after, there is another issue with this woman:


Sort of freaks out and swings back her neck abruptly for no real reason:


Otherwise everything looks pretty great! I agree it could be a little bit smoother overall but only marginally. Seeing as how many people missed other details and prioritise the animations I am leaning towards it being due to the above two things. Am I missing something?
 

Sky Chief

Member
May 7, 2011
5,461
0
0
I keep hearing the animations are bad but I've watched this a few times now and I don't see it. They've done a fantastic job simulating realism.

People mention the stairs especially, it seems a bit rigid, possibly too fast as well. Soon after, there is another issue with this woman:



Sort of freaks out and swings back her neck abruptly for no real reason:



Otherwise everything thing looks pretty great! I agree it could be a little bit smoother overall but only marginally. Seeing as how many people missed other details and prioritise the animations I am leaning towards it being due to the above two things. Am I missing something?

I think most of the animation is quite good but that just amplifies the few awkward animations and makes them really stand out.
 

flipswitch

Member
Jul 12, 2005
7,030
2
1,310
Some games even on PS2 had floor reflections (MGS2 was famous for this) It does look better here with distance-based material fogging of course, and the reflections also occur on non-floor surfaces which is what's so far been far more rare, or used very sparely and in very controlled situations for the most part.


I don't think these last two are a good idea. More contrast in shadows makes games look less real in my opinion, it's rare in real life to ever see strong, dark shadows, unless it's night of course. I also don't think dramatic skybox would be a good idea for the utopistic and serene looking futuristic city.

Those reflections seen in MGS2 is just the geometry is flipped upside down with a transparency texture I believe. Nothing special.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,483
5
0
I think most of the animation is quite good but that just amplifies the few awkward animations and makes them really stand out.

Animation will become the most criticized aspect of graphics in the next-gen. Character models are going to be too details and any hiccups are going to stand out big time. But i'm not really worried about KZ since the current gen titles have some of the best animation from this gen.
 
Apr 14, 2008
10,656
1
0
New Orleans
This game looks absolutely beautiful, but I fear it'll suffer from "early in the gen" syndrome, where it'll feel like a last gen game with next gen graphics.

I expect (or hope) shooters later in the generation will deal with stuff like visible, leaking bullet wounds in NPCs. And I feel like this game doesn't even have the destruction of Killzone 2 (which was mostly lost in Killzone 3 for some reason), but I guess that remains to be seen, given most of what we saw in the gameplay trailer involved metal objects.
 
Feb 22, 2010
5,835
0
0
I'm only getting into this for the multiplayer, but if the campaign can deliver to some of the speculation in this thread, it's going to be badass!
 

Jack_AG

Banned
Feb 8, 2012
4,067
0
0
Chicago, IL
The trailer starts with showing the city and the scale. It plays in an open platform and not 'locked/closed up' area with what I expect several paths shown because they had the character go climbing to get around a heavy gunner, but what if I chose the other direction instead? Past Killzones, correct me if I am wrong, were very linear.

The gameplay segment also does have the character flying through the city and ending up right on the wall then backing out to show the scale again.

Then, they do have that art showing both sides like this (this might be reading too much into it though):



It does seem more open than the past killzones. I hope that I am not reading too much into it.

It looked quite a bit closed off to me. Running around the heavy gunner by 20 feet isn't my idea of "open". You wind up at the same exact spot. Choosing door 1 vs door 2 that both lead to the exact same room isn't "open". It's still exceedingly linear, IMO.

Now if you could have chosen to go through buildings, different floors, maybe a bridge between a few buildings, etc - then I would consider it "open", to a very small extent. But a simple "I'll cut the left real quick and get behind the guy" isn't open, by default.
 

sykoex

Lost all credibility.
Sep 18, 2004
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Early in the demo did anyone else keep thinking the reveal was that the player was a Helghast in disguise?


I still kind of wonder if they'll do that (like maybe 2 campaigns or switching back and forth). I feel like this panorama kind of suggests it:
 

Stark

Banned
May 11, 2012
5,435
0
0
Toronto, ON
^God I hope so. I'd love to play from the perspective of the Helghast. Been wanting that.

Animation will become the most criticized aspect of graphics in the next-gen. Character models are going to be too details and any hiccups are going to stand out big time. But i'm not really worried about KZ since the current gen titles have some of the best animation from this gen.

Yeah. I think with their new dev kits they'll get a chance to push in the animation ground even further. At least that's what I understood with what the large amount of RAM can do in terms of physics and animation.

It looked quite a bit closed off to me. Running around the heavy gunner by 20 feet isn't my idea of "open". You wind up at the same exact spot. Choosing door 1 vs door 2 that both lead to the exact same room isn't "open". It's still exceedingly linear, IMO.

Now if you could have chosen to go through buildings, different floors, maybe a bridge between a few buildings, etc - then I would consider it "open", to a very small extent. But a simple "I'll cut the left real quick and get behind the guy" isn't open, by default.

Problem is, a stage demo is a stage demo. It's also its first reveal. We can't derive much from it aside from, it's beautiful and its Killzone at its core.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Jun 3, 2012
20,767
0
0
I don't see how people miss the newness unless my PS3 is some sort of strange dud, here are some more stills to help spot the smoothness and new awesomeness (need to remember current gen accurately and also bare in mind the scale of the scene not fully captured in a single shot alone:

Youtube grabs so forgive compression:

 

mentok15

Member
Jul 2, 2011
115
0
0
Animation will become the most criticized aspect of graphics in the next-gen. Character models are going to be too details and any hiccups are going to stand out big time. But i'm not really worried about KZ since the current gen titles have some of the best animation from this gen.

Animations are RAM dependant aren't they? With both next gen systems having 8GB RAM we should be seeing some very good animations in games.

Early in the demo did anyone else keep thinking the reveal was that the player was a Helghast in disguise?


I still kind of wonder if they'll do that (like maybe 2 campaigns or switching back and forth). I feel like this panorama kind of suggests it:


That picture made me think about a duel campaign too. It would be great to finaly play as a Helgast.
 

Always-honest

Banned
Jan 11, 2008
41,668
1
0
This game looks absolutely beautiful, but I fear it'll suffer from "early in the gen" syndrome, where it'll feel like a last gen game with next gen graphics.

I expect (or hope) shooters later in the generation will deal with stuff like visible, leaking bullet wounds in NPCs. And I feel like this game doesn't even have the destruction of Killzone 2 (which was mostly lost in Killzone 3 for some reason), but I guess that remains to be seen, given most of what we saw in the gameplay trailer involved metal objects.
I really doubt that. There is a certain order in way these games are made. Animations start out as simple placeholders. Guerilla has been pretty ambitious with animations in the past and they are the first to see hat these animations aren't on par with the rest of the technology.

More things were off in this early demo. But they have time to all make it come together. I'm sure the final game will blow us away. Setting a standard and a bar for at least two years to come (on ps4).
 

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
1
520
I don't see how people miss the newness unless my PS3 is some sort of strange dud, here are some more stills to help spot the smoothness and new awesomeness (need to remember current gen accurately and also bare in mind the scale of the scene not fully captured in a single shot alone:

Youtube grabs so forgive compression:

Damn this game looks so blurry in screenshots. You don't see that while watching the video, so I guess it's just the motion blur working really well.
 

KKRT00

Member
Feb 13, 2011
14,456
0
0
Warsaw - Poland
Those reflections seen in MGS2 is just the geometry is flipped upside down with a transparency texture I believe. Nothing special.

Exactly, not only they arent correct, but You cant project them on other surface than horizontal water that takes almost full screen, You cant also change camera angles and still have those reflections.
 

mytsoutsou

Neo Member
Apr 26, 2011
10
0
0
Athens Greece
GG just give us the multiplayer with 64 vs 64 players in a huge map similar to Pyrrhus Rise with KZ2 warzone game mode and do whatever the hell you want with the SP
 

Kenshin001

Member
Feb 2, 2010
5,545
0
0
Tokyo
twitter.com
Now that the graphical discussion has died down (game is still far from being complete and the code was not running with >3.5GB in mind), let's discuss what the game needs to change and improve upon.

Strengths:

  • Gun physics (KZ2) and the consequent feel.
  • Response time (KZ3)
  • Pacing
  • Atmosphere (KZ2)
  • Boss fights (KZ2). Radec truly had a presence I have seldom seen in a video game. Almost like Vader.
  • Animation (hit reaction from KZ2)
  • Attention to detail (environmental and audio)
  • Multiplayer (KZ2)

Weaknesses:

  • Lack of identity (KZ3) and soul imbued by the art style, its consistency and atmosphere of KZ2.
  • Poor plot/story that fails to leverage the a multi-faceted struggle that defines the KZ universe, making it feel absolutely flat.
  • Highly annoying, crass and meathead of a partner.
  • Banal script. Another true disservice given how mighty the opening speeches have been.
  • A general disconnect between what is to be done and why. This general lack of impetus is tied to the plot, character, their motivations and moment to moment objectives.
  • Multiplayer (KZ3)
  • Lacking any memorable character (KZ3).

Potential Addendum:

  • RPG elements- Arsenal and player unlocks, upgrades and customization.
  • Dialog choices (Alpha protocol, ME) allowing for players to personalize the story.
  • Co-op
  • Ability to play as both Helgan and Vektan (to build upon a multi faceted story and explore the impetus for the actions of both sides) in the same campaign (think Snatch).

Good list but I'm not interested in dialogue choices to personalise the story. For the most part they just don't work and feel forced. They should just write a good story with good dialogue and multidimensional characters. That was what people asked for after KZ2 and instead they pandered to the CoD crowd with ridiculous lightweight B grade action movie stuff. Seems like they are going to do it again. I really can't understand how hard it can be to write a good script and give characters some depth.

Don't know why people want to play as Helghast either. The Helghast are much more interesting as an enemy.
 
Apr 11, 2009
543
398
1,070
That game looks gorgeous, and i've yet to see something similar on my ps3.
Rants here are complete nonsense.
Problem here is that too many have not a single clue about coding, an those are sometimes very vocal.

The only thing for me is that I was expecting 60fps.
 

Flatline

Member
Dec 5, 2008
1,932
0
0
Good list but I'm not interested in dialogue choices to personalise the story. For the most part they just don't work and feel forced. They should just write a good story with good dialogue and multidimensional characters. That was what people asked for after KZ2 and instead they pandered to the CoD crowd with ridiculous lightweight B grade action movie stuff. Seems like they are going to do it again. I really can't understand how hard it can be to write a good script and give characters some depth.

Don't know why people want to play as Helghast either. The Helghast are much more interesting as an enemy.


I agree on everything except the last part but that's a matter of opinion. That the game has awful script and characters though is a fact.


Seriously, fix that shit Guerilla.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Oct 29, 2006
42,982
0
0
"Welcome back to Vektan soil, sir!"

That line... So many questions ._.

This probably isn't the first mission of the game. The player character in the demo is an assassin so he's probably getting back from a prologue mission.


Anyone have any guesses as to why the ISA changed their name to VSA? Could they have severed ties with Earth?
 

TEH-CJ

Banned
Jul 13, 2007
6,083
0
0
I don't see how people miss the newness unless my PS3 is some sort of strange dud, here are some more stills to help spot the smoothness and new awesomeness (need to remember current gen accurately and also bare in mind the scale of the scene not fully captured in a single shot alone:

Youtube grabs so forgive compression:

I'm so wet right now.
 

Vlodril

Member
Dec 20, 2008
2,958
117
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Am i the only one what wants better sound of first person games? Specifically how the weapon sound? Its just so underwelming most of the time.

I grew bored of BF3 almost immediately but the sound on that game was awesome. I would like an improvement on this front in Killzone.
 

Acrylic7

Member
Oct 4, 2010
6,239
0
680
North Carolina
I find it hilarious that they live together separated by a Giant fucking wall.

President of space: "Glad this is over. To show that we are at a peaceful arrangement with the most hellbent, grudge holding, violent, slightly genetically enhanced, barbaric, un-humanitaian race that the universe has ever seen; we will live together on a planet that divides us by a giant wall... and considering how insanely advanced technology is, the wall is in retrospect a giant line made of duct tape."
 

TUROK

Member
Aug 27, 2010
4,858
932
910
Am i the only one what wants better sound of first person games? Specifically how the weapon sound? Its just so underwelming most of the time.

I grew bored of BF3 almost immediately but the sound on that game was awesome. I would like an improvement on this front in Killzone.
Killzone 3 has some of the best sounding guns in any game ever. Way better than BF3's sound design.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Sep 29, 2011
27,242
39
670
Killzone 3 has some of the best sounding guns in any game ever. Way better than BF3's sound design.

I haven't played Killzone 3, only Killzone 1 and 2, but BF3 has among the absolute best sound design in gaming.
Seeing as I never really heard any praise about KZ3's sound design i'm inclined to believe you hold the minority opinion.
 

TEH-CJ

Banned
Jul 13, 2007
6,083
0
0
From the killzone forum:



Probably some kid trying to start some shit, but hey, you never know right. Thought i ask around here maybe someone knows this David fella

This is too much for me man lol

holy crap. I cannot contain my excitement.
 

Derrick01

Banned
May 9, 2011
34,660
0
0
From the killzone forum:



Probably some kid trying to start some shit, but hey, you never know right. Thought i ask around here maybe someone knows this David fella

Again that sounds like something they would announce instead of keeping secret, much like 1080p.
 

mickcenary

Member
Mar 21, 2010
4,052
0
0
Australia
After about 10 viewings or so, it's all looking normal to me now; as in, I can completely believe that this is what we'll be getting next-gen, whereas at first, I was more than ready to stand up and shout "BULLSHIT!". I'm totally okay with this, too, 'cause it still looks fucking amazing and it does indeed seem like a realistic generational leap.
 

TEH-CJ

Banned
Jul 13, 2007
6,083
0
0
I haven't played Killzone 3, only Killzone 1 and 2, but BF3 has among the absolute best sound design in gaming.
Seeing as I never really heard any praise about KZ3's sound design i'm inclined to believe you hold the minority opinion.

Bf3 had better reverb sounds. Actually it had better sound design as a whole. But killzone 3 wasn't far behind it.
 
Jan 29, 2012
4,169
0
0
In regards to the "open world" comments, I don't believe anyone is saying this game will be open world in the traditional sense, but simply have elements from open world games. What I mean by that is in Killzone 1-3 all the levels were boxed in areas completely separate from. The games took place at several locations on Helghan but they were still closed off with no connection to eachother whatsoever.

In Shadow Fall the main portion of the game will take place in this one single city that we have seen from the demo they have put extreme detail throughout. So while the game may still operate in the level-by-level progression, all the levels will be connected. So maybe the game will be more open, maybe there will be some sort of central hub, maybe there will be a way to select which mission you do next, stuff like that. But again, I don't believe anyone is realistically expecting a fully open and explorable world that you can run around in at any time.

This probably isn't the first mission of the game. The player character in the demo is an assassin so he's probably getting back from a prologue mission.


Anyone have any guesses as to why the ISA changed their name to VSA? Could they have severed ties with Earth?
That's possible, there is no way this new character was part of the Helghan invasion from KZ2 with the time gap present. As far as the VSA thing goes, the ISA we played as in all the Killzones were the Vektan branch of the ISA, but there was also a Earth branch and many other branches for the other colonized planets part of the alliance. So perhaps to make them more recognizable they changed the Intergalactic for Vektan. Don't believe they cut ties with Earth.
Still awaiting the day Killzone takes us to Earth, I want to see Guerrilla's take on it!

GG just give us the multiplayer with 64 vs 64 players in a huge map similar to Pyrrhus Rise with KZ2 warzone game mode and do whatever the hell you want with the SP
The multiplayer definitely needs to be much bigger and something we have never seen this generation. With 64 vs 64 on very large maps, imagine this twist on Warzone: Missions are still randomly selected, but multiple missions could be going on at the same time on different fronts. And some of these fronts could intersect with eachother and you could travel from one to another. That would certainly make it feel a lot more large scale and an actual war instead of a battle, but that may be too complicated as well. One thing I certainly hope they add to Warzone is more randomness, I don't really like how the Capture and Hold points are in the same spots every time, or how the return spots for Search and Retrieve are always in the same spot, or Search and Destroy, etc. You get people abandoning the current mission and prepping early for the next so they can win very quickly. I see the strategic element of this but I still don't like it.
 

Visceir

Member
Mar 20, 2007
4,513
0
0
I find it hilarious that they live together separated by a Giant fucking wall.

President of space: "Glad this is over. To show that we are at a peaceful arrangement with the most hellbent, grudge holding, violent, slightly genetically enhanced, barbaric, un-humanitaian race that the universe has ever seen; we will live together on a planet that divides us by a giant wall... and considering how insanely advanced technology is, the wall is in retrospect a giant line made of duct tape."

None of it really makes any sense to me.

They got all those security measures and body scanners set in place, but somehow an entire enemy battalion managed to sneak on top of a skyscraper in the middle of the city unnoticed?
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,799
7
1,030
Western Australia
None of it really makes any sense to me.

They got all those security measures and body scanners set in place, but somehow an entire enemy battalion managed to sneak on top of a skyscraper in the middle of the city unnoticed?

Maybe GG is taking narrative pointers from Infinity Ward. :p
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,612
2
1,130
Now that the graphical discussion has died down (game is still far from being complete and the code was not running with >3.5GB in mind), let's discuss what the game needs to change and improve upon.

Strengths:

  • Gun physics (KZ2) and the consequent feel.
  • Response time (KZ3)
  • Pacing
  • Atmosphere (KZ2)
  • Boss fights (KZ2). Radec truly had a presence I have seldom seen in a video game. Almost like Vader.
  • Animation (hit reaction from KZ2)
  • Attention to detail (environmental and audio)
  • Multiplayer (KZ2)

Weaknesses:

  • Lack of identity (KZ3) and soul imbued by the art style, its consistency and atmosphere of KZ2.
  • Poor plot/story that fails to leverage the a multi-faceted struggle that defines the KZ universe, making it feel absolutely flat.
  • Highly annoying, crass and meathead of a partner.
  • Banal script. Another true disservice given how mighty the opening speeches have been.
  • A general disconnect between what is to be done and why. This general lack of impetus is tied to the plot, character, their motivations and moment to moment objectives.
  • Multiplayer (KZ3)
  • Lacking any memorable character (KZ3).

Potential Addendum:

  • RPG elements- Arsenal and player unlocks, upgrades and customization.
  • Dialog choices (Alpha protocol, ME) allowing for players to personalize the story.
  • Co-op
  • Ability to play as both Helgan and Vektan (to build upon a multi faceted story and explore the impetus for the actions of both sides) in the same campaign (think Snatch).
Good list, but i would like to add KZ3 to the multiplayer as well, since it introduced the Operation Mode. Personally i really liked that and i hope to see it in Killzone 4 as well :)

What did people find wrong with the Warzone Mode in Killzone 3 by the way? Personally i enjoyed KZ2 multiplayer more than KZ3 multiplayer, but i think it was only because of the different maps and lack of portable spawnpoints.
 
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