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Killzone Shadow Fall (PS4) announced, launch title [1080p/30fps]

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KillerTravis

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Mar 25, 2012
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I want that with Last of Us quality blood spray and bleeding. Make it as brutal and gritty as you can. That's what separated KZ2 and that's what will separate Shadow Fall.

Does no one found this somewhat sickening? And is the point of having more realistic rag doll physics to have more realistic moving corpses?
 

Hoo-doo

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Sep 29, 2011
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Does no one found this somewhat sickening? And is the point of having more realistic rag doll physics to have more realistic moving corpses?

It's simple realism. If my player character stands next to a window, i'd like to see it reflect realistically. If someone gets hit in the nose, i'd like to see his nose start bleeding and it dripping on his clothes and stuff. It's not fetishizing it, it's just details.
 

AngryBird

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Yup. Reflections were heavily used throughout the demo. This is part of the reason Crysis 2 in DX11 looks so fantastic. Those reflections in metal, glass, rain soaked pavement and puddles, go a long way toward that next gen feel.




Also, has GG said anything on the 4gb or 8gb thing officially? I see a lot of people in different threads saying they likely built this thinking they only had 4GB. Was the 8GB a really recent change by Sony?

So these these are real time reflections right? I mean showing the actual objects instead of some fake unrelated texture, which seems to happen in a lot of games.

Does Crysis 3 ,2 have real time reflections?
 

Galvanise_

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Britania rules the waves.
I like the look of the new bright environment, but I do feel the Helghast will lose a bit of their menace in a well lit environment. I enjoyed the reds of their eyes contrasting against the dark and grim backgrounds.
 

BloodMoney

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Nov 30, 2012
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Does no one found this somewhat sickening? And is the point of having more realistic rag doll physics to have more realistic moving corpses?

Lets not kid ourselves. In FPS games you are shooting people... when you shoot people they bleed/die... As graphics improve, so should detail. The details involved in killing include blood & gore.
 

Shayan

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Nov 11, 2012
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4GB of additional memory does not magically double the framerate. They can still do 60fps now if they wanted and additional memory would add to certain elements of graphics and other underlying aspects to a degree.

an additional 4 gig of fast ram causes large textures to be mapped to the cache at lightning speed . this is supposed to be a forum with professionals . all of a sudden my comments are quoted with comments which make no sense

it seems that he did know about the 8gb of gddr5 in the ps4 though.

i know a lot about the future too but that would be a risk not worth taking since no site has revealed anything about some major betrayaltons

If a material info is released to the public in the form of a rumour , i can comment on that since i never made the info public in the first place :)
 

noah111

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Dec 16, 2008
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Don't know if it was mentioned, but _phil_ from Beyond3D said that recent dev kits were using only 1.5 GB of memory.
 

i-Lo

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an additional 4 gig of fast ram causes large textures to be mapped to the cache at lightning speed . this is supposed to be a forum with professionals . all of a sudden my comments are quoted with comments which make no sense

Excuuuuuse me princess.
 

i-Lo

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Ugh, perhaps more explanation would help. Link?


Actually it makes sense. If the original level was pegged at less than 4GB (3.5GB) then apportioning 1.5GB (as a self imposed target) for graphics alone. I think we ought to remember the original rumour of PS4 once possessing 2GB GDDR5 overall. Given some games were in development since before 2011, it was a cautionary and conservative approach.

Whether it's true or not is a different matter.
 

beast786

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an additional 4 gig of fast ram causes large textures to be mapped to the cache at lightning speed . this is supposed to be a forum with professionals . all of a sudden my comments are quoted with comments which make no sense



i know a lot about the future too but that would be a risk not worth taking since no site has revealed anything about some major betrayaltons

If a material info is released to the public in the form of a rumour , i can comment on that since i never made the info public in the first place :)

Only one left is gears of war.


MGS, Final fantasy, budgie all criss crossed.
 

i-Lo

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How much RAM did the devkits have? 4GB, right?

IIRC a rumour sprung around December last year stating that two devkits, one possessing 8GB and another 16GB had come to existence.

I would say that the 8GB devkit saw the proper proliferation given (since the later days of 360) dev kits could possess up to double amount of RAM of retail units to help during the debugging process with sufficient overhead.
 

ZaCH3000

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Aug 2, 2012
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Shout outs to Dusky for reading and enjoying my post! Your probably 98% right about the new team I just find it suspicious considering the remarks Guerrilla Games made before showcasing Shadow Fall.

Also, I wanna spread the love to i-Lo and James Sawyer Ford. I feel like we agree on a lot of game related issues, have similar taste in games and maintain a high level of discussion on a consistent basis. Bro hugs. I think Sony should let us create a video game concept together.
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Actually it makes sense. If the original level was pegged at less than 4GB (3.5GB) then apportioning 1.5GB (as a self imposed target) for graphics alone. I think we ought to remember the original rumour of PS4 once possessing 2GB GDDR5 overall. Given some games were in development since before 2011, it was a cautionary and conservative approach.

Whether it's true or not is a different matter.

Per VGleaks:

July 2012 dev kit had 2.2GB VRAM GPU and 8GB system RAM. Basically a modified PC. "Phil" states only 1.5GB RAM was available to devs (makes sense)

Last month the near final dev kit with the Liverpool SoC went out with unified 8GB VRAM. I think this dev kit may be the one seen in the leaked DS4 pictures.

It also neatly explains how the bump to 8GB for the retail console was possible (just like the 360)
 

i-Lo

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Shout outs to Dusky for reading and enjoying my post! Your probably 98% right about the new team I just find it suspicious considering the remarks Guerrilla Games made before showcasing Shadow Fall.

Also, I wanna spread the love to i-Lo and James Sawyer Ford. I feel like we agree on a lot of game related issues, have similar taste in games and maintain a high level of discussion on a consistent basis. Bro hugs. I think Sony should let us create a video game concept together.

Indeed, bro hug from me as well. I think our take goes beyond just KZ and focuses on what the issue is FPS in general i.e., it has been the same thing for years without some drastic changes. Bungie is trying to remedy this to an extent through amalgamation of an persistent online world and a single player campaign where co-op is big.

I really liked your view on the Peace Keeper, morality idea and injection of fantasy elements.

As such, I was hoping if you could give some feedback on this post (it's a long read):

Gaffers, I have thinking about how we can take cues from Burnout Paradise and Journey as well as Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Each of the two share a common theme. Let me show you:

Burnout Paradise & Journey: Seamless online integration and transition.

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls: Invasions.

A buzzword: Coincidental timing

This idea can also be implemented into other games. For this to work, being connected online is a prerequisite.

Idea:

As aforementioned, assume you have a SP campaign where you get to play both the Vektan and Helgan side. Or it can be two equally deep separate campaigns. In any event, retreading some of the same location has to exist. Now, imagine you are progressing through the story and as is par for the course facing a multitude (as always) of enemies with your AI team-mates. Here is the fun twist- One of those adversaries is a real player who is in his/her part of the campaign where he/she is playing as the other side retreading the same ground. If the player of one side dies, the mission restarts for him/her (as usual) now with either a new human player as one of the opposing forces member if available or just another AI driven drone. For the player who wins the fire-fight, he/she simply proceeds onward with the campaign.

The storyline would have to share the same timeline from both sides (once again, think Snatch) and multiple points of intersection woven into the fabric of the campaign. I also mentioned earlier that the story should be a touch more personalized and that it could be achieved via providing dialogue options like ME/Alpha Protocol. This way non linearity can be attained even in terms of locations chosen for fire fights from time to time. This means differing points of intersections and grounds for retreading.

Rationale:

  • Current AI in games is no substitute for human player. Introducing a human element in the opposing team without foreknowledge introduces an element of surprise and enriches the experience.
  • Given limited non-linearity in choosing locations (eg: Player chooses to battle on Front A, over B or C), it weaves an element of replayability in the campaign itself without resorting to "item collection"
  • Given no one has done it in a FPS before, it would be a tremendous way to move the series forward, not unlike the games mentioned at the beginning of the post. It will be a generational shift that is beyond graphics.

Caveats:

  • Given this system relies on "coincidental timing" the net code would have to be sublime to filter things through continual monitoring for the following and etc:
  • Player skill balance. This is a variable that is dependent upon the choice of the difficulty of SP campaign.
  • Load times would have to be "tweaked" in clever fashion enforce the "coincidental timing" for potential match ups.
  • Map design and triggers to move to next sections have to be designed with this in mind.
  • Given the complexity of numerous variables, this seamless transition/invasion would be limited to a few maps.

In effect, this is a combination of single player and playing multiplayer with one player and multiple bots at the same time.
 

Violater

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Jun 11, 2007
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Slightly OT but playing Crisis 3 SP on my 670 I think GG have their work cutout for them.
For one they need to ditch the linear corridor driven gameplay.
I think crytec have struck a good medium between open and enclosed space gameplay with multiple points of attack.
Something missing from the killzone series which has been primarily, go to this point and turn this lever, or use the rocket launcher to proceed.
There is some of this in crysis for sure but the playing landscape so far is much more varied.
 

babyghost853

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Feb 12, 2009
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Yup. Reflections were heavily used throughout the demo. This is part of the reason Crysis 2 in DX11 looks so fantastic. Those reflections in metal, glass, rain soaked pavement and puddles, go a long way toward that next gen feel.




Also, has GG said anything on the 4gb or 8gb thing officially? I see a lot of people in different threads saying they likely built this thinking they only had 4GB. Was the 8GB a really recent change by Sony?


Well Phil said this over on B3D

Less than that.Most kits until pretty recently had only 1.5 GB usable for graphics
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1712366&postcount=111
 

ZaCH3000

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Aug 2, 2012
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Indeed, bro hug from me as well. I think our take goes beyond just KZ and focuses on what the issue is FPS in general i.e., it has been the same thing for years without some drastic changes. Bungie is trying to remedy this to an extent through amalgamation of an persistent online world and a single player campaign where co-op is big.

I really liked your view on the Peace Keeper, morality idea and injection of fantasy elements.

As such, I was hoping if you could give some feedback on this post (it's a long read):

When I read this post the first thing that sprang into my mind was, "this idea is genius." Seriously I mean that. It is in the same direction that I was working to as well, except using Dark and Demon's Souls as a better example than Mass Effect.

The gameplay idea is great and as you already mentioned has its challenges. However, Demon's and Dark Souls has proven its possible. Guerrilla Games should piggyback off that idea.

It works even better when the player is given multiple directions to take to parts of the city on the Vetkan side or Helghast side depending on simple choices the player makes. This idea is based off of Dark Souls. I love how the player can role-play by making simple choices. In addition, my initial comparison to Mass Effect works as well because I love the way Mass Effect handled the story and side missions. Your vision and mine are very similar, and thanks to James Sawyer Ford for some of his ideas because they helped clarify what I think Killzone should do, but more importantly how there are possible hints of this coming true.

Your idea of invasions is amazing, although that is something I don't think FPS developers would have even thought of because it hasn't even been tested in a genre, or hell even a game other than Demon's and Dark Souls.

Let's get even funkier. I believe Furst said they are going to use voice commands during the Jimmy Fallon interview when they were going over the controller specs. Now, imagine if the player who invades can act as the squad captain, directing enemy AI troops around using simple voice commands similar to SOCOM. You and I are onto something cool here, i-Lo. If the player takes out the invader the enemy AI kind of loses its shit for a moment.

The more I think on it, the more amazing it sounds. Hey Sony, how about two first-class tickets to Norway so we can flesh these ideas out, huh?
 

Gorillaz

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Jun 13, 2012
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What if Shadow Fall had RPG elements and that lovely city was explorable?

Probably not since they are already focused on creating a separate IP which will be an RPG

buuuut. I think Shadow Fall will go back (hopefully) to the urban combat days like KIllzone 2.
 

Derrick01

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May 9, 2011
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What if Shadow Fall had RPG elements and that lovely city was explorable?

I would give anything for that city to be open world and be able to fly around in it in one of those many flying vehicles you can see in the beginning.

I would think if they were doing that they would mention something that huge at the first reveal to get people talking. Any speculation that it's going to happen seems to be extremely wishful thinking more than anything likely to happen.
 

Hypereides

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Jan 19, 2009
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I think the next step in FPS would be hyper realism:

No HUD

Checking your mag/Counting bullets by yourself

No crosshair

Having a facial editor to apply camo by yourself

etc. etc.

But then it would beg the question whether you'd be creating virtually a true murder simulation.

Still I'd like to see GG take it a step further like that.
 
Jan 29, 2012
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I think the next step in FPS would be hyper realism:

No HUD

Checking your mag/Counting bullets by yourself

No crosshair

Having a facial editor to apply camo by yourself

etc. etc.

But then it would beg the question whether you'd be creating virtually a true murder simulation.

Still I'd like to see GG take it a step further like that.
KZ2 on Elite took all the HUD off and such, it was a much better experience too. And I don't think you'd be creating a murder simulator at all, but I'd be beating a dead horse if I went any further.
 

Spiegel

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Feb 20, 2007
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I`m thinking the first next gen Call of Duty game will be 720 exclusive, with it also coming out on the 360 and PS3.


Reverse betrayalton:

FF goes from PS3 exclusive to multiplatform
FF goes from multiplatform to PS4 exclusive

Other examples: Mass Effect and MGS

COD doesn't fit
 

BigTnaples

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Feb 10, 2011
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So these these are real time reflections right? I mean showing the actual objects instead of some fake unrelated texture, which seems to happen in a lot of games.

Does Crysis 3 ,2 have real time reflections?


Yes, fully realtime, and glorious. Crysis 2 DX11 and Crysis 3 both use the effect quite a bit, and it looks great.




Here are a few more examples throughout the video of the realtime reflections. They are a lot easier to notice when YOU are actually playing as opposed to watching someone play because you are then more cognizant of its reaction to your input. In Crysis 2 is constantly gave me "Wow" moments at the graphics. And it seems KZ SF uses them more liberally.




It really helps give materials a feeling of being seated in the world.


(pardon the low res and compression, just using youtube on my non retina display iPad.)
 

Gorillaz

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Reverse betrayalton:

FF goes from PS3 exclusive to multiplatform
FF goes from multiplatform to PS4 exclusive

Other examples: Mass Effect and MGS

COD doesn't fit

FF would be the only one imo that could possibly turn into a reverse betraylton.
 
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