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Business Game Dev Jim Ryan for TMTPOST: "we don't want games that are OK, we want the best."

Hobbygaming

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Wrong platform so haha

In all seriousness though. This is absolutely the direction Sony is going to go in. The closure of Japan studios the cancellation or days gone 2 which the first had to be their most heavy gameplay game outside of God of War.

They are looking at games like the last of us 2 as a image of things to come.

I hope not though
Imagine thinking TLOU 2 doesn't have much gameplay
 

Woggleman

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Days Gone has just as many cutscenes and cinematics as TLOU2. TLOU2 might have that but it also has some of the best gameplay in any Sony exclusive. A game can have both things.
 

DJTaurus

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"Reach users who like Hollywood movies":doubling down on cinematic experiences. Sony is in good hands 🤣
 

Represent.

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I've hated him and the direction he was taking Playstation... But he won me over with that statement.

idgaf about AA games or indie shit.

Give me TLOU 2 quality magnum opus after magnum opus :messenger_horns::messenger_horns:
 
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Wrong platform so haha

In all seriousness though. This is absolutely the direction Sony is going to go in. The closure of Japan studios the cancellation or days gone 2 which the first had to be their most heavy gameplay game outside of God of War.

They are looking at games like the last of us 2 as a image of things to come.

I hope not though

God these takes are so fucking stupid
 

mcjmetroid

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You two don't even know what you're getting annoyed at.

You both enjoyed the last of us 2 didnt you?
Well I'm just saying prepare for more games like that...

If you didn't like it and you're getting defensive then not my problem.

i despised the last of us part 2's story but im an adult who can move the fuck on and not cry about it for the rest of eternity and hold a stupid childish grudge against the studio.

also what other game like last of us does sony have? days gone is the closest thing yet they are very different games and they havent announced anything that looks like the last of us. or am i misunderstanding what your trying to say?
 
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mrBandoza

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TMTPOST: The production of a game is very much like film production. Will you personally participate in the production process and give your opinion? Or is it someone else is responsible for this?

Ryan: No, I don't do this, because my suggestions are not good. Even if I give them, I hope that the developers will ignore them. Of course I think you are right. We have to consider the budget and time cost. It is indeed very similar to making a movie. But I think if you have built a mature development team, you have to employ people without any doubt, you have to trust your team and support them. This is how we operate the PlayStation Studio. We give them freedom to express their creativity, and we believe that they will give us a corresponding return and deliver the best games.

TMTPOST: How would you define a best game?

Ryan: I think a best game can arouse certain emotions of the players, such as making the player feel excited, feel the adrenaline rush, or feel happy or sad. I think best gaming experience should allow players to enter an immersive experience in the game, allowing players to fully integrate into the game and experience different emotions

I think this is essentially the most important thing to Playstations succes. They focus on delivering a rich experience based on the creators vision.

A best game isn’t defined by performance in numbers rather what emotions it envokes in the player.

This is what Nintendo has done for a long time and that’s why they can use drive their platforms basically without third party support.
 
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You two don't even know what you're getting annoyed at.

You both enjoyed the last of us 2 didnt you?
Well I'm just saying prepare for more games like that...

If you didn't like it and you're getting defensive then not my problem.

Nope i didn't. Gameplay was steller. Story was fucking trash and it went on for far too long.

You're saying the usual tripe that Sony is going to have their studios folliw TLOU2 formula and focus on story > gameplay going forward, of which i'll repeat myself. The take is fucking stupid.
 
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mcjmetroid

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Nope i didn't. Gameplay was steller. Story was fucking trash and it went on for far too long.

You're saying the usual tripe that Sony is going to have their studios folliw TLOU2 formula and focus on story > gameplay going forward, of which i'll repeat myself. The take is fucking stupid.
hmmmm I don't know man. The signs are pointing towards this.

Look they will always have Rachet and Clank, God of War and Horizon. I'd consider them gameplay centric.
I'm not one of those assholes you think all Sony games are the same, that's a pathetic argument.

I do think though any NEW ips will probably most likely follow the last of us direction. The feeling like a Hollywood movie feel.

I want to be wrong here because I think Sony won the first party battle a long time ago from Microsoft and Nintendo, I'd hate to see the glory days disappear.
 
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hmmmm I don't know man. The signs are pointing towards this.

Look they will always have Rachet and Clank, God of War and Horizon. I'd consider them gameplay centric.
I'm not one of those assholes you think all Sony games are the same, that's a pathetic argument.

I do think though any NEW ips will probably most likely follow the last of us direction. The feeling like a Hollywood movie feel.

I want to be wrong here because I think Sony won the first party battle a long time ago from Microsoft and Nintendo, I'd hate to see the glory days disappear.

Closing Japan Studio which needed to culled years ago and cancelling Days Gone 2 are not signs of this. We're seeing signs that show the exact opposite of this

We just had Returnal, of which they just bought the studio, they're branching their studios to develop multiplayer games, they've partnered with 3 external studios, of which 2 are also making multiplayer games. The only FP studio that's going to continue doing the Naughty Dog forumula is Naughty Dog.

You're misinterperting what Jim is talking about with the focus on blockbuster games (i'm assuming that's where you're getting this from) It's not about making "movie games" like LOU2. It's about making games with high production values that are looked at as being the creme de la crop like hollywood.

Returnal which focuses on gameplay over story is an example of the blockbuster hollywood game he wants
 
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Rubberwald

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Is this really true though? Yes games like God of War and Spiderman do gangbusters, let alone games like GTA5 and COD...but some of the OTHER biggest games around definitely feel like they're off the beaten path (in relation to other mainstream games). Almost any Mario title, Fortnite, Minecraft...all of these are also massively popular games with elements that feel very abstract and whimsical, and aren't focused on serious storytelling in a Hollywood-style way.
I know it Is getting super silly with Hollywood analogies, but can your three examples be equivalents of Hollywood animated films? I mean, Pixar and some other successful studios take chances and make an occasionally weird film. Wall-E is pure silent filmmaking for the first 30 minutes of its running time - not something you would expect from a film for kids.
 
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What are these actual movies of similar type of stories you refer to?
I claim without even hearing those, that TLOU2 can be in the same conversation and most movies you will list aren't even worth being in the same conversation.
You're serious? :pie_roffles:

Come and See
STALKER
World on a Wire
Midnight Patrol
Snowpiercer
Pulp Fiction
Gattaca
Total Recall (original)
Robocop (original)
Happiness
Irreversible
Welcome to the Dollhouse
Pi

...that's off the top of my head. Not all of those are necessarily 100% sam story as TLOU2, but they're all better-told stories than the one in that game, with much better narrative structure and more interesting takes on the themes they explore...

...and they don't deliberately take shortcuts to damage integrity of favorite characters just to prop up a certain other character.

I know it Is getting super silly with Hollywood analogies, but can your three examples be equivalents of Hollywood animated films? I mean, Pixar and some other successful studios take chances and make an occasionally weird film. Wall-E is pure silent filmmaking for the first 30 minutes of its running time - not something you would expect from a film for kids.

Again it depends on what you mean by weird. Also what type of revenue are you looking at to consider it successful, and is that something in line as realistic with the budget.

Using the animated film industry in Hollywood is a bit difficult because animated films in the West have always been constrained in what can generally get approved for funding. Almost always family-friendly, safe-ish films. But some recent anime films with theater releases (Demon Slayer, DBZ Broly etc.) did a lot better than analysts expected so maybe they are good examples to start with?
 
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I think this is essentially the most important thing to Playstations succes. They focus on delivering a rich experience based on the creators vision.

A best game isn’t defined by performance in numbers rather what emotions it envokes in the player.

This is what Nintendo has done for a long time and that’s why they can use drive their platforms basically without third party support.
So in other words it is completely subjective and cannot be quantified through data? So why are so many people clinging to GOTY nominations and MC scores? :pie_thinking:

Yes a game can have very different reactions from two people playing them. I keep bringing up TLOU2 because it's a perfect example of how there is no universal standard for measuring a "best game" if we're taking your definition into account. For as many people loved it, I literally saw many others expressing strong negative reactions as they played it, live.

For some reason there's a very vocal minority of TLOU2 fanbase who want to pretend every person who didn't like the game is just either anti-Sony/anti-PlayStation or has an agenda against LGBTQIA+ people. While I'm sure for some bigots that's the case, you also have to be realistic and acknowledge some people have legitimate reasons for not thinking it's such a "best game", and that's okay.

I mean by your definition, many people would put something like Halo 3 (the MP) as their "best game", or Valorant, or R6 Seige, or Street Fighter V, or Mario 64, or Sonic, maybe even some super-obscure game you may not have even heard of. I'm not 100% sure using a solely subjective measurement is any better than a solely objective (i.e data-driven) measurement. You need a good mix and even that will not be 50/50 as it will depend many times on the game itself, and you need to also take into consideration its relevance at time of release and how it plays today.

Also I think you guys vastly overrate Nintendo's ability to move hardware with their own software. That has never really been the case. NES and SNES were strongly driven by 3P support. The N64, especially in the West, was driven strongly by 2P support (Rare) and 3P support (games like Turok, Quake, DOOM etc). Gamecube benefited a lot from select 3P support from companies like SEGA.

If you want to test that theory of yours and see why it's wrong look no further than the Wii U. Almost single-handedly propped up by Nintendo 1P yet that system never got past 15 million LTD. Just goes to show it doesn't matter how good the games are; if the hardware is unappealing, features/services bare-bones and you don't have some decent 3P support, you will always struggle to keep relevant.
 
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THEAP99

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Then greenlight more focused and detailed linear experiences rather than formulaic open world games
 

PropellerEar

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You're serious? :pie_roffles:

Come and See
STALKER
World on a Wire
Midnight Patrol
Snowpiercer
Pulp Fiction
Gattaca
Total Recall (original)
Robocop (original)
Happiness
Irreversible
Welcome to the Dollhouse
Pi

...that's off the top of my head. Not all of those are necessarily 100% sam story as TLOU2, but they're all better-told stories than the one in that game, with much better narrative structure and more interesting takes on the themes they explore...

...and they don't deliberately take shortcuts to damage integrity of favorite characters just to prop up a certain other character.
What I thought a lot of text without any substance.
None of these movies handle the same main story subject/theme as TLOU2.

Try again.
 
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mrBandoza

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So in other words it is completely subjective and cannot be quantified through data? So why are so many people clinging to GOTY nominations and MC scores? :pie_thinking:

Yes a game can have very different reactions from two people playing them. I keep bringing up TLOU2 because it's a perfect example of how there is no universal standard for measuring a "best game" if we're taking your definition into account. For as many people loved it, I literally saw many others expressing strong negative reactions as they played it, live.

For some reason there's a very vocal minority of TLOU2 fanbase who want to pretend every person who didn't like the game is just either anti-Sony/anti-PlayStation or has an agenda against LGBTQIA+ people. While I'm sure for some bigots that's the case, you also have to be realistic and acknowledge some people have legitimate reasons for not thinking it's such a "best game", and that's okay.

I mean by your definition, many people would put something like Halo 3 (the MP) as their "best game", or Valorant, or R6 Seige, or Street Fighter V, or Mario 64, or Sonic, maybe even some super-obscure game you may not have even heard of. I'm not 100% sure using a solely subjective measurement is any better than a solely objective (i.e data-driven) measurement. You need a good mix and even that will not be 50/50 as it will depend many times on the game itself, and you need to also take into consideration its relevance at time of release and how it plays today.

Also I think you guys vastly overrate Nintendo's ability to move hardware with their own software. That has never really been the case. NES and SNES were strongly driven by 3P support. The N64, especially in the West, was driven strongly by 2P support (Rare) and 3P support (games like Turok, Quake, DOOM etc). Gamecube benefited a lot from select 3P support from companies like SEGA.

If you want to test that theory of yours and see why it's wrong look no further than the Wii U. Almost single-handedly propped up by Nintendo 1P yet that system never got past 15 million LTD. Just goes to show it doesn't matter how good the games are; if the hardware is unappealing, features/services bare-bones and you don't have some decent 3P support, you will always struggle to keep relevant.
You don’t need to dissmiss every other type of data just because you have a clear goal with what you are doing. The world isn’t black and white.

Why I take Nintendos first party is because it is good quality games. Yes their hardware have been both good and bad compared to the competition but as you say not everything is decided by one factor. I would say we agree there. But when you think Nintendo do you really think unfinished crappy games or great quality games regardless if you like them or not?

I think there are a lot more to timing for both Gamecube and Wii U. Gamecube had great third party with Resident evil 4, metal gear solid and more but the hardware was released at a bad time. Nintendo games have always sold well despite the bad hardware.

What I mean is that if you leave creative decisions to the developer and are open to new ideas you will get good results eventually. If you see to it that the games are released with good quality it will bring success. If that way of thinking is the core of your strategy. If you never take risks and only produce games based on whats popular you will loose your edge.

That’s what he is saying that the experience is the goal. GOTY awards is a result by having that goal not the driving factor.

As for metacritic and youtubers opinion it’s very dangerous to rely on as truth based on all the moneyhatting going around and fanboys wanting to please a specific company.

Gaming is more than that and in the end. A good game will be a good game regardless of GOTY-awards or not. Don’t let institutions decide your taste in gaming. You will miss an awful lot if you do.
 

SSfox

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If they want the best then buy the best game devs, Platinum, Koji Pro and Fromsoft, tho i think it's gonna be complicated when it comes to FS since they're part of another big brand (don't remember its name), but they can definitely acquire the other 2 studios.
 
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What I thought a lot of text without any substance.
None of these movies handle the same main story subject/theme as TLOU2.

Try again.
Lol have you even WATCHED any of these films? Also did you not read my little description afterwards?

You're not going to find a film that handles the "same main story subject/theme" of TLOU2 otherwise that'd be plagiarism. But a lot of the ones listed have some similarity in certain themes and topics that are part of their own stories, or have a similar sort of somber atmosphere to how they handle those things.

You just want me to make this easy for you because I don't think you've watched even half the movies on that list :pie_roffles:

You don’t need to dissmiss every other type of data just because you have a clear goal with what you are doing. The world isn’t black and white.

Why I take Nintendos first party is because it is good quality games. Yes their hardware have been both good and bad compared to the competition but as you say not everything is decided by one factor. I would say we agree there. But when you think Nintendo do you really think unfinished crappy games or great quality games regardless if you like them or not?

Of course not; Nintendo is generally synonymous with polish and quality. But it can also be argued that's because they stick with a specific range of genre templates they have mastered over the years.

If I asked a Nintendo 1P studio to make a survival-horror action game, for example, I don't think it would be heads-and-shoulders above the competition or even at a similar level tbh, not for their first attempt anyway.

I think there are a lot more to timing for both Gamecube and Wii U. Gamecube had great third party with Resident evil 4, metal gear solid and more but the hardware was released at a bad time. Nintendo games have always sold well despite the bad hardware.

Yes their software has generally sold very well in spite of the hardware but that software wasn't enough to propel Gamecube and Wii U in system sales for their generation. And while they had some good 3P support, it was less than what Microsoft and Sony had in those generations.

You need a balance of great 1P and strong 3P support plus an attractive price, good features/services and good release timing as well as great marketing/advertising to make a console work for all parties involved.

What I mean is that if you leave creative decisions to the developer and are open to new ideas you will get good results eventually. If you see to it that the games are released with good quality it will bring success. If that way of thinking is the core of your strategy. If you never take risks and only produce games based on whats popular you will loose your edge.

That’s what he is saying that the experience is the goal. GOTY awards is a result by having that goal not the driving factor.

I don't think that's what he was saying though because you don't need to be a "Hollywood" style of game, which is what Jim implies when he talks about this, in order to take those creative risks.

And besides, we have a history of fantastic games which took many creative risks get snubbed for GOTY nominations plenty of times, so even in a historical context that statement isn't necessarily true.

As for metacritic and youtubers opinion it’s very dangerous to rely on as truth based on all the moneyhatting going around and fanboys wanting to please a specific company.

Gaming is more than that and in the end. A good game will be a good game regardless of GOTY-awards or not. Don’t let institutions decide your taste in gaming. You will miss an awful lot if you do.

Definitely true, that's something I'd like to think we can all agree on 🤝
 
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PropellerEar

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Lol have you even WATCHED any of these films? Also did you not read my little description afterwards?

You're not going to find a film that handles the "same main story subject/theme" of TLOU2 otherwise that'd be plagiarism. But a lot of the ones listed have some similarity in certain themes and topics that are part of their own stories, or have a similar sort of somber atmosphere to how they handle those things.

You just want me to make this easy for you because I don't think you've watched even half the movies on that list :pie_roffles:
You're just proving my point, you write a lot without any thought behind it.

Of course there are movies that handle the same main story theme/subject of TLOU2. Your list didn't have any.

Maybe you didn't get what the story of TLOU2 is about?
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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If they want the best then buy the best game devs, Platinum, Koji Pro and Fromsoft, tho i think it's gonna be complicated when it comes to FS since they're part of another big brand (don't remember its name), but they can definitely acquire the other 2 studios.

Platinum, Kojipro, and From don't represent the best. All three studios have limited appeal in the market. Sony shouldn't be hunting studios down that sell 5-10 million multiplatform games. That leads them to selling 4 million on PS5. The Bloodborne esque games that sell 3.8 million lifetime don't advance the cause.
 
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SSfox

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Platinum, Kojipro, and From don't represent the best. All three studios have limited appeal in the market. Sony shouldn't be hunting studios down that sell 5-10 million multiplatform games. That leads them to selling 4 million on PS5. The Bloodborne esque games that sell 3.8 million lifetime don't advance the cause.
They're some of the best devs to me, and that's all what matters.
 

mrBandoza

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Of course not; Nintendo is generally synonymous with polish and quality. But it can also be argued that's because they stick with a specific range of genre templates they have mastered over the years.

If I asked a Nintendo 1P studio to make a survival-horror action game, for example, I don't think it would be heads-and-shoulders above the competition or even at a similar level tbh, not for their first attempt anyway.
I rhink you will get a quality game no doubt. Best in class? Not necessarily but a stellar game. Very seldom Nintendo output flawed or broken experiences. We have different opinions here I think and we are drifting from the original point beeing that if you focus on delivering a quality experience instead of meeting financial goals as a primary I think you are on the right track.

Yes their software has generally sold very well in spite of the hardware but that software wasn't enough to propel Gamecube and Wii U in system sales for their generation. And while they had some good 3P support, it was less than what Microsoft and Sony had in those generations.

You need a balance of great 1P and strong 3P support plus an attractive price, good features/services and good release timing as well as great marketing/advertising to make a console work for all parties involved.
Ok I agree with you that there are more factors for success for a platform one of them being having great quality games.

I don't think that's what he was saying though because you don't need to be a "Hollywood" style of game, which is what Jim implies when he talks about this, in order to take those creative risks.

And besides, we have a history of fantastic games which took many creative risks get snubbed for GOTY nominations plenty of times, so even in a historical context that statement isn't necessarily true.

That’s what I got out from the quote. That the experince is key and that they still go for unproven ideas and new ip:s. Then I think personally that if sony puts down 100 million into games they don’t meed to drive smaller experiences themselves. The can curate interesting projects instead and help publish them.

Agreed you can never guarantee success but the chance is higher if you release a game that isn’t broken like, driveclub, andromeda or no mans sky.
 
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You're just proving my point, you write a lot without any thought behind it.

Of course there are movies that handle the same main story theme/subject of TLOU2. Your list didn't have any.

Maybe you didn't get what the story of TLOU2 is about?

Well you're the expert apparently, why not offer a refresher?

That’s what I got out from the quote. That the experince is key and that they still go for unproven ideas and new ip:s. Then I think personally that if sony puts down 100 million into games they don’t meed to drive smaller experiences themselves. The can curate interesting projects instead and help publish them.

Agreed you can never guarantee success but the chance is higher if you release a game that isn’t broken like, driveclub, andromeda or no mans sky.

Oh for sure, but then that gets back to the reality that higher production budgets, they can guarantee (99% of the time, aside from an Anthem-type screw up of course) the game isn't broken, but the increased cost also increase the financial risk if the game doesn't hit certain revenue figures.

The more esoteric concepts in the game from a creative POV, the more chances it has of alienating parts of the wider audience/market which can limit its potential revenue. There's a reason massive blockbuster films tend to have very standardized structures, similar three-act setups and proven story beats, etc.
 
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Hobbygaming

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This doesn't account for most encounters with a few enemies (1-3) and there's other aspects of gameplay: Platforming, exploration, puzzles, all of which, TLOU 2 has
 
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Keihart

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"Only the best" sounds like a stupid stance to take if you care about a portfolio, but a clever one if you want more return on investment.
At least he seems to be reaffirming the idea of letting the studios keep their freedom, which is what allows them to keep talent and have surprise hits that can't be calculated.

I hope that "the best" is just a way of saying that they want to do their best in the games PS produces instead of only wanting "the best" performing ones sales wise. That's an easy way to fall on uniformity and making all your games similar like Ubisoft.
 
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Kerotan

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As a ps5 owner who recently played astros play room, Miles Morales, ratchet and ghost of tsushima I like this approach.

Even the worst of their recent hits days gone was incredible on ps5.
 

Woggleman

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Say what you want about TLOU2 but there is plenty of gameplay. I know people who disliked the first one based on gameplay but love the sequel.
 
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As a ps5 owner who recently played astros play room, Miles Morales, ratchet and ghost of tsushima I like this approach.

Even the worst of their recent hits days gone was incredible on ps5.

even on a base ps4 and all the choppyness, i still enjoyed days gone. must be awesome to ride the bike around at a smooth 60fps on ps5


Say what you want about TLOU2 but there is plenty of gameplay. I know people who disliked the first one based on gameplay but love the sequel.

ignore anyone that says that. they're just trolls who have no idea what they're talking about. i hated the last of us 2 story. the only thing i actually enjoyed was the gameplay... and of course all moments that had joel in it.
 
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Hobbygaming

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I am happy I waited a year to play Days Gone. I had my first impression after they fixed a lot of the issues.
I had about 3 glitches in 2 playthroughs which isn't bad at all. My 1st playthrough was 40+ hours

I do wanna start a 60FPS playthrough soon though
 
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mrBandoza

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Oh for sure, but then that gets back to the reality that higher production budgets, they can guarantee (99% of the time, aside from an Anthem-type screw up of course) the game isn't broken, but the increased cost also increase the financial risk if the game doesn't hit certain revenue figures.

The more esoteric concepts in the game from a creative POV, the more chances it has of alienating parts of the wider audience/market which can limit its potential revenue. There's a reason massive blockbuster films tend to have very standardized structures, similar three-act setups and proven story beats, etc.
Yes of course and that is the reality we live in. Some games and IP:s will always follow the norm. You can't risk every game. It makes no sense if you want to make money. Fully agree there but to hear a big company say their goal is to create greate experiences, that they want the player to feel something when playing their games, it's better than just doing games to make money. One doesn't mean the other isn't necessary (budget vs. creativity) but if your main goal is business and not the end consumer you will eventually create more and more hollow experiences as you say. You will never take a chance because you are afraid of loosing money. Then you fall into the trap Hollywood are in. That's why Jim works with business decisions and the studios with the creative decisions.

Alos, gaming isn't Hollywood and film production is very different and a much older industry. It's very hard to break the mould for how films are being made because "everything" is already done. One of the reasons why Josef Fares went from filmmaking to creating games.

I don't think the comparison with film translates very good because games are so much more. But that's another discussion, I do understand what you mean though and yes it is always a risk that you get standardised gameplay or genres that are more popular. Open world, FPS, Third person shooter-games. And that is why it is so important to take risks and see to the experience not the budget. Can we create a game that makes people feel something? (And not only anger because the game is broken ;). Then some experiences will be more for everyone like Astrobot and others will be more narrow like Detroit. And that's why they finance interesting indie projects that do something different like Fall Guys or such and that is super important for the industry and something that hopefully will ensure that games as a medium will not stagnate.
 

mrBandoza

Neo Member
Jun 21, 2021
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Yes of course and that is the reality we live in. Some games and IP:s will always follow the norm. You can't risk every game. It makes no sense if you want to make money. Fully agree there but to hear a big company say their goal is to create greate experiences, that they want the player to feel something when playing their games, it's better than just doing games to make money. One doesn't mean the other isn't necessary (budget vs. creativity) but if your main goal is business and not the end consumer you will eventually create more and more hollow experiences as you say. You will never take a chance because you are afraid of loosing money. Then you fall into the trap Hollywood are in. That's why Jim works with business decisions and the studios with the creative decisions.

Alos, gaming isn't Hollywood and film production is very different and a much older industry. It's very hard to break the mould for how films are being made because "everything" is already done. One of the reasons why Josef Fares went from filmmaking to creating games.

I don't think the comparison with film translates very good because games are so much more. But that's another discussion, I do understand what you mean though and yes it is always a risk that you get standardised gameplay or genres that are more popular. Open world, FPS, Third person shooter-games. And that is why it is so important to take risks and see to the experience not the budget. Can we create a game that makes people feel something? (And not only anger because the game is broken ;). Then some experiences will be more for everyone like Astrobot and others will be more narrow like Detroit. And that's why they finance interesting indie projects that do something different like Fall Guys or such and that is super important for the industry and something that hopefully will ensure that games as a medium will not stagnate.

And see this is what happens when you think; How can we make more money using things we have already built i.e. money first with the lowest risk possible. Player experience? "Hope they'll buy in."

 

3liteDragon

Member
Mar 3, 2020
2,051
12,589
755
Wrong platform so haha

In all seriousness though. This is absolutely the direction Sony is going to go in. The closure of Japan studios the cancellation or days gone 2 which the first had to be their most heavy gameplay game outside of God of War.

They are looking at games like the last of us 2 as a image of things to come.

I hope not though
Well if that's the case, then sign me the fuck up cause I'm on board.
 

JLB

Member
Dec 6, 2018
3,055
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495
Cyberpunk 2077 looked stellar before launch. Aliens: Colonial Marines too. Fallout 76 hype was also about something stellar.

Why not wait until the game is released and then praise it?
Apart from last gen consoles, CP2077 looks stellar.
 

JoeBudden

Member
Apr 28, 2021
299
517
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In terms of all exclusives, I think Jimbo's off the mark. With PlayStation charging more for their games, the bar is high, and some of their exclusives just aren't meeting it. Destruction All Stars and Godfall are the obvious examples; AUD$125.00 for sub-par games isn't really something Sony can get away with for too long before fans stop buying games on release day. In terms of just their first party exclusives, I think Jimbo's pretty much on point. PlayStation Studios work hard on their games, and they deliver pretty good quality across the board. I've grown tired of the Sony Formula® myself, but there's no denying their studios are pumping out high quality, AAA games that their fans love.

The problem I see is one we've already discussed around here: Sony's myopic focus on blockbusters and metacritic scores. They'll never make a Sea of Thieves, a Zelda, a Starfield, a Gears Tactics, an Animal Crossing, a Halo; there's a reason nearly all of their studios are making these cinematic third person action-adventure games: it proved incredibly successful in the past and so they've doubled down. Over the course of the PS4 generation their studios have nearly all migrated towards making a fairly specific type of game. Is it a smart move to put all your eggs in one basket? It'll be Jimbo's legacy one way or the other.

Destruction All Stars was free for 2 months after launch and it is not a full priced game.

Sony has released 5-6 critically acclaimed exclusives for PS5 already with: Astro, Returnal, Demon's Soul, Miles Morales, FF7R Intergrade, and Guilty Gear. Kena and Horizon 2 are on the way for this year too, and are expected to perform well. How many of these games are 'Hollywood blockbuster' games?

You guys live in a different reality.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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Yes of course and that is the reality we live in. Some games and IP:s will always follow the norm. You can't risk every game. It makes no sense if you want to make money. Fully agree there but to hear a big company say their goal is to create greate experiences, that they want the player to feel something when playing their games, it's better than just doing games to make money. One doesn't mean the other isn't necessary (budget vs. creativity) but if your main goal is business and not the end consumer you will eventually create more and more hollow experiences as you say. You will never take a chance because you are afraid of loosing money. Then you fall into the trap Hollywood are in. That's why Jim works with business decisions and the studios with the creative decisions.

Alos, gaming isn't Hollywood and film production is very different and a much older industry. It's very hard to break the mould for how films are being made because "everything" is already done. One of the reasons why Josef Fares went from filmmaking to creating games.

I don't think the comparison with film translates very good because games are so much more. But that's another discussion, I do understand what you mean though and yes it is always a risk that you get standardised gameplay or genres that are more popular. Open world, FPS, Third person shooter-games. And that is why it is so important to take risks and see to the experience not the budget. Can we create a game that makes people feel something? (And not only anger because the game is broken ;). Then some experiences will be more for everyone like Astrobot and others will be more narrow like Detroit. And that's why they finance interesting indie projects that do something different like Fall Guys or such and that is super important for the industry and something that hopefully will ensure that games as a medium will not stagnate.
I get all of that, but the thing is I'm not going to take much into that type of messaging just because someone heading the company says as such.

What Sony's saying here is nothing unique unto themselves; if the measurement for "best games" isn't shackled to any specific genre or template type, anyone from Microsoft or Nintendo could make this same statement and be truthful, and we could look at various metrics to back them up. Part of the reason companies might make statements like this is for purpose of marketing and optics, to try defining themselves as different from competitors, without directly mentioning or referencing said competitors.

No problem in believing you are the best at what you do, and again that is arguably very much the case for Sony when it comes to story-driven, third-person action-adventure blockbusters. But there is a problem when you try framing that specific thing you're good at, as objectively superior to other types of games that aren't even going for that type of vibe. And that's where Ryan's quotes here feel a bit off here.

You bring up good points with your other examples and that does indeed also show they do a variety of game styles that are pretty well-done in their own right, but that type of genre variety and quality isn't inherently exclusive to them. But to mention it as a reminder just in case others forget those games exist too, well I think that is fine 👍
 
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Umbasaborne

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Dec 21, 2020
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Lol whats the best game you played?

the most recent tripple a release from the company im responsible for.

also he says they want the best, but they release alot of very dated feeling somewhat average open world games. Ghosts and spiderman are good, but they feel a bit uninteresting and formulaic as open worlds go. I want more stuff like gravity rush, bloodborne, or astros play room from them. Ratchet was good, but again it didnt knock my socks off, i think crack in time is still a better game. They make great games certainly, but id like them to avoid making games that feel formulaic
 
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ZehDon

Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Destruction All Stars was free for 2 months after launch and it is not a full priced game.

Sony has released 5-6 critically acclaimed exclusives for PS5 already with: Astro, Returnal, Demon's Soul, Miles Morales, FF7R Intergrade, and Guilty Gear. Kena and Horizon 2 are on the way for this year too, and are expected to perform well. How many of these games are 'Hollywood blockbuster' games?

You guys live in a different reality.
If Destruction All Stars doesn't get consideration because you believe it was not a full priced game, neither does Astro Bot, because it was free. So, nice snuck premise there. Anyway, Destruction All Stars was a full priced game, launching for AU$125.00. It's currently AU$35 because it didn't sell well. This is also true of Godfall. This is a problem for Sony.

Mile Morales, FFVII Integrade, and Guilty Gear aren't PS5 exclusives - they're all available on PS4. You're down to niche-rogue like Returnal (85 MC) and PS3 remake Demon's Souls (92 MC). You also forgot Ratchet & Clank (88 MC). The issue you have is that Sony is charging more money for these games, and so the demands for quality are going to be that much higher. Returnal was a good game, sure, but it's absolutely not worth the AU$125.00 asking price. Demon's Souls is asking for AU$125.00 for a graphical overhaul... while the Shadow of the Colossus remake was not a full price title when it launched on PS4. Ratchet & Clank has pretty graphics, so you can sneak that through at the inflated price under the guise of a next-gen show piece. So, 1 title of their entire launch year suite might be able to justify Sony's inflated pricing. This a problem for Sony. How long can they continue this before people just stop buying PS5 games at launch?

You live in a reality where PS5 gamers have unlimited income and are happy to buy over-priced games indefinitely. That's not going to hold forever - gamers aren't idiots.
 

Unknown?

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Jan 5, 2016
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If Destruction All Stars doesn't get consideration because you believe it was not a full priced game, neither does Astro Bot, because it was free. So, nice snuck premise there. Anyway, Destruction All Stars was a full priced game, launching for AU$125.00. It's currently AU$35 because it didn't sell well. This is also true of Godfall. This is a problem for Sony.

Mile Morales, FFVII Integrade, and Guilty Gear aren't PS5 exclusives - they're all available on PS4. You're down to niche-rogue like Returnal (85 MC) and PS3 remake Demon's Souls (92 MC). You also forgot Ratchet & Clank (88 MC). The issue you have is that Sony is charging more money for these games, and so the demands for quality are going to be that much higher. Returnal was a good game, sure, but it's absolutely not worth the AU$125.00 asking price. Demon's Souls is asking for AU$125.00 for a graphical overhaul... while the Shadow of the Colossus remake was not a full price title when it launched on PS4. Ratchet & Clank has pretty graphics, so you can sneak that through at the inflated price under the guise of a next-gen show piece. So, 1 title of their entire launch year suite might be able to justify Sony's inflated pricing. This a problem for Sony. How long can they continue this before people just stop buying PS5 games at launch?

You live in a reality where PS5 gamers have unlimited income and are happy to buy over-priced games indefinitely. That's not going to hold forever - gamers aren't idiots.
Uhhh Destruction AllStars did not launch at full price.
 

JoeBudden

Member
Apr 28, 2021
299
517
280
If Destruction All Stars doesn't get consideration because you believe it was not a full priced game, neither does Astro Bot, because it was free. So, nice snuck premise there. Anyway, Destruction All Stars was a full priced game, launching for AU$125.00. It's currently AU$35 because it didn't sell well. This is also true of Godfall. This is a problem for Sony.

Mile Morales, FFVII Integrade, and Guilty Gear aren't PS5 exclusives - they're all available on PS4. You're down to niche-rogue like Returnal (85 MC) and PS3 remake Demon's Souls (92 MC). You also forgot Ratchet & Clank (88 MC). The issue you have is that Sony is charging more money for these games, and so the demands for quality are going to be that much higher. Returnal was a good game, sure, but it's absolutely not worth the AU$125.00 asking price. Demon's Souls is asking for AU$125.00 for a graphical overhaul... while the Shadow of the Colossus remake was not a full price title when it launched on PS4. Ratchet & Clank has pretty graphics, so you can sneak that through at the inflated price under the guise of a next-gen show piece. So, 1 title of their entire launch year suite might be able to justify Sony's inflated pricing. This a problem for Sony. How long can they continue this before people just stop buying PS5 games at launch?

You live in a reality where PS5 gamers have unlimited income and are happy to buy over-priced games indefinitely. That's not going to hold forever - gamers aren't idiots.

LMAO look at you tryna shift the convo away from your nonsense 'Hollywood blockbuster' claim after I made you look stupid.

Your source is clearly reporting incorrect information. The game didn't release last year, it released in February this year. Looks like it's pulling a placeholder date and price.


And, look at you tryna lowball the number of exclusives Sony has just because they're cross-gen.

I wonder why Xbox fanboys never apply this same logic back to their platform? Lmfao
 
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