• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Jeff Grubb - VentureBeat] PlayStation boss Jim Ryan needs to create a better narrative

I love how Layden is now heralded after years of being told what a shit job he was doing

And before that it was Jack Tretton copping all the flack. Then he leaves and becomes popular

And before that it was Kaz Hirai who became the meme of the internet and wasn’t living up to Kutaragi but is now beloved
Yeah I remember very well about how Shawn was to blame for how Sony turned all their E3's into just trailer after trailer and then how they stopped doing it altogether. They also blamed him for not doing PSX anymore in December. Now everyone likes the guy because of some quote he said about Vib Ribbon.
 
Last edited:

demigod

Member
None of this will end up in anything, we gamers always give a free pass to anything because of brand loyalty.

Sony showcases Indies, people complained they want AAA games ... MS show Indies, MS is winning.
PS plus happens, one side complains they do not own the games, Gamepass happens, those same people are now happy....
ETC

we always have 2 sides trying to fit the narrative that suits their favourite brand to "win"

Now call me suspicious but is it interesting how after the avalanche of gamepass "articles" now we have "Sony is doomed"
it is the same thing that happened before the unveil of xbox one and ps4 generation.
You forgot one. Sales don’t matter, it’s all about gamepass subscription. Then you see a thread from an xbox fan bragging how ms games were in the top 10 for the week.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Ohh it all makes sense.

That I heart Don desktop background. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

It's obvious that Grubb has some inside connections, he's posted too much accurate information in the past, so, I'll give him that. He also does opinion pieces and speculates quite a bit (which he always points out himself), it's these bits that people often twist around on him. Or other sites make definitive articles off of it, etc. The same with a lot of these guys. This is just an opinion article.
 

Bragr

Banned
Pay attention to the news cycle right now.

Some criticism comes Sony's way, and gamers and the media alike jump on it, and with every word, the criticism becomes bigger and worse. Now, everyone wants a piece, and in one week the criticism goes from being an interesting take on Sony's potential issues to being the doom of Sony.
 

Vol5

Member
I mean, not everybody likes to get surprise buttfucked by sony you know?
Being a fan it's no the same as being a slave precisely.

Steam and Xbox treat you better if you buy digital games now, why would you not compare it?

The games have been on that store for an eternity, still are, but clearly nobody buys shit from there anymore so Sony is closing it. Next you'll be demanding we don't change media formats or have consoles that never fail.

"Sony butt fucked me because they are closing a store down that I never use". Listen to yourself.
 

ZehDon

Gold Member
Keep a non-profit platform running "For the players"? This is some take... Cancel culture essentially. It's disgusting.
... this is in no way related to Cancel Culture. What a terrible opinion. If people can't openly complain about losing access to stuff they've already paid for then just what the hell can they complain about?

Sony has created this narrative themselves. Closing stores to cut costs... while boasting about record hardware sales and gaming profits. They get no sympathy from me here. Imagine if Steam said "games before 2012 can no longer be bought, patched, or downloaded". There'd be blood in the streets. Right now, I can buy 2001's Fuzion Frenzy for Xbox on Microsoft's store, but I can't buy 2013's TLOU for PS3 from Sony's. There's something wrong that. This article and these types of opinions are just the symptom of that problem.
 
Seems like a narrative that's only circulating through the hardcore community... or am I wrong? If this is so wide spread, shouldn't sales/numbers be dropping? shouldn't this be more... of a bigger deal?
 

Dabaus

Banned
What I find interesting about this blatant, well coordinated, smear job campaign against PlayStation is the timing. First it was power, then overheating, then rdna1 then gamespass, now Jim Ryan is incompetent. Let’s recap:
2019
-Before next gen consoles were talked about we’d get an almost daily article from some media figure about how cloud gaming was the future and Xbox was set to dominate.
-PlayStation out of the blue releases articles talking about the ssd, the cpu, and a rdna2 gpu.
-Xbox out of the blue follows up and shows the series x at the game awards.
2020:
-All we hear about is 12 teraflops and rdna 2. 12 teraflops became a religion, which is funny because we barely even mention it now.
-Sony doesn’t immediately respond. Xbox fanboys start a narrative of “They’re doomed, caught off guard, heat issues.”
-Show reveals ps5. Not 12 teraflops but not a bad peice of hardware.
“Rdna 1, heat issues, way too expensive ssd”
-Xbox may and June shows are both duds
-June Ps5 reveal, 2 consoles discless surprises many.
-Another ps5 event, pretty good
-Bethesda bombshell right before preorders
Games finally come out and there’s no difference between most of them, sometimes Ps5 getting the advantage.

So 2021:
Ps5 is outselling the series s/x 2:1
Ps5 games are up to par so the tools narrative happens.

After the power narrative fizzled it’s now about the onslaught of “gamespass game pass gamespass” and Sony is doomed because of that.

So now the new narrative is Jim Ryan is incompetent and THATS why Sony is doomed.

Look, Xbox is desperate. They’ve spent a lot of money and they need to show results. They have no software so they need the Jeff Grubbs and Twitter army to spread doom and gloom about Sony before the lead becomes insurmountable and its an Xbox one generation repeat.
Is Jim Ryan and PlayStation out of touch? Maybe? But is there a well coordinated smear campaign against PlayStation? Absolutely.
 
Last edited:

Keihart

Member
The games have been on that store for an eternity, still are, but clearly nobody buys shit from there anymore so Sony is closing it. Next you'll be demanding we don't change media formats or have consoles that never fail.

"Sony butt fucked me because they are closing a store down that I never use". Listen to yourself.
So you have no idea why killing the store is big deal for people playing those systems besides buying new stuff?
Do you own a PS3 and Vita? do you know how to access your library? because if you don't, no wonder you don't care.
 

MrSarcastic

Banned
One of the narratives is that PlayStation wants to make more AAA (and that is bad -wait what?-)....The exact opposite is why Xbox has been criticized since the second half of the 360 era and till this very moment, Xbox hasn't delivered.

The BC and closing stores is a valid point but is not that important as some people believe, but is a genuine diffraction factor.

Game Pass, Game Pass, Game Pass, Game Pass. Yes, is a very good service and sony is going to have their own game pass. Cuz just makes sense.

70 dolarucos...some people are going to buy games at that price point especially if the games are Goty Contenders and 85+ on Meta. and if not...there are going to be dumb people that still buy those games at launch, just like there are people pre-ordering and buying broken games day one.

As I said before, all this drama/concern-trolling/ genuine criticism is good for PlayStation. And drama is the way of the gods of the algorithms.
 

Elog

Member
If you are an Xbox owner, the only high-quality exclusive content you have been able to enjoy on your platform over the last 5 years is more or less Ori and the Will of the Wisps - a fantastic game. That is it.

If you are a Sony owner you have been able to enjoy an insane amount of high-quality exclusive content over the same period such as The Last Guardian, UC4, R&C, HZD, Nioh, Lost Legacy, GoW, Spider Man, SotC Remake, Days Gone, Death Stranding, GoT, Spider Man MM and DS Remake. And that is not all.

And somehow Sony has a problem - the discussion is really ridiculous.

What does the future hold? Who knows but the reality right now is that MS is all talk and promise but no delivery (at least not yet) while Sony is continuing to roll.
 
Last edited:
So you have no idea why killing the store is big deal for people playing those systems besides buying new stuff?
Do you own a PS3 and Vita? do you know how to access your library? because if you don't, no wonder you don't care.
I have both and I think I've pretty much played all the games worth playing on those systems. Closing the stores, is not a big deal for me at least.
 

Three

Member
They get no sympathy from me here. Imagine if Steam said "games before 2012 can no longer be bought, patched, or downloaded". There'd be blood in the streets.
You don't lose access to things you paid for.

Your steam analogy would only make sense if Steam for some reason had a new store like PS4 and PS5 stores in which case yeah they would do it. It's not like MS hasn't already done this with GFWL even with all their profits and 360s success:



Can I still buy Games for Windows Live games?

No, the PC Marketplace on Xbox.com will discontinue selling Games for Windows Live titles as of August 22, 2013. For information about Games for Windows Live titles not published by Microsoft, please contact the title’s publisher.

Can I purchase in-game downloadable content for my current Games for Windows Live games after Microsoft Points go away?

In-game purchases and other downloadable content purchase availability will vary based on the particular game. Please contact specific game publisher for more information.

So yes this stuff happens. Lose access to 2013 stuff let alone 2012.
 
Last edited:

bender

What time is it?
Jim Ryan got to be Jim Ryan without listening to turds like Jeff Grubb.

DWIBobby.gif
 
Good, I'm glad Ryan is coming under fire. I don't care if the criticisms are reasonable or not: what matters is that Sony feels pressure.

You'd think the first half of the PS4 wasn't complete shit going by the amount of dick sucking for Shawn and Co
The PS4 wasn't backwards compatible, meaning it was a lot harder to release a bunch of games at launch. Under Layden's tenure Sony's first party studios were phenomenally well-managed, which is why Ryan can coast on back to back blockbusters that have been incubating for years.
 
Last edited:
The PS4 wasn't backwards compatible, meaning it was a lot harder to release a bunch of games at launch. Under Layden's tenure Sony's first party studios were phenomenally well-managed, which is why Ryan can coast on back to back blockbusters that have been incubating for years.

The piss poor launch lineup had nothing to do with backwards compat, and it's not just the launch, it was first couple of years of the console their output was absolute doodoo

It was called the indiestation 4 for a reason lmao
 
Last edited:

SLB1904

Banned
Jim Ryan is losing the pr news. Phil spencer pr news runs at 120fps4k with uncompressed pixels... i don't know what I'm talking lol
time to go to bed i guess.
 

Jaysen

Banned
I’m not whining about a $10 increase. Look in the mirror and see who’s shilling, mr banned alt.
Nah you’re just whining about some guy on the internet who said something vaguely unflattering about the corporation you worship. That’s soooooo much better.
 

Portugeezer

Member
In the real world, nobody give a shit. Game media just riding this wave right now and it's boring.

What's with the word "Enemy" in the title? Are you leading on with something here OP?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The piss poor launch lineup had nothing to do with backwards compat, and it's not just the launch, it was first couple of years of the console their output was absolute doodoo

It was called the indiestation 4 for a reason lmao
Yeah, I remember that. I was pretty harsh on them for making GT6, Beyond and GoW Ascension last gen. PS3 was pretty much done by 2013 and all those games had underwhelming sales despite an 80 million install base.

As bad as it was, they still had the common sense to line up third party studios like Ready At Dawn, From Software and Supermassive while SSM, ND and GG worked on their games. I pointed this out in the other thread, but the first three years of PS4's lineup looks even worse if you take out all the games from studios they are no longer working with or have shut down.

  1. KZSF
  2. Knack
  3. Infamous
  4. DriveClub
  5. The Order
  6. Bloodborne
  7. Until Dawn
Take out Until Dawn, BB, The Order, DriveClub and Knack and it looks like this:

1. KZSF
2. Infamous

Imagine that lineup from 2013-2015. Horrifying.

I would love to see who Sony has replaced them with, and I really fucking hope it's not fucking Death Loop and Ghostwire Tokyo because those are third party games with third party IPs that wouldve appeared on Playstation regardless if Jim didnt pull a Phil and paid them to keep the game from other platforms.
 

Pedro Motta

Member
This smear campaign is getting out of hand. Sony has been putting out more games, both indies and AAA's than Microsoft in the last 3 years combined. Yet the narrative that's being pushed is ridiculous and people fall for it.

Crazy world we live in.
 
"Sony silence is deafening"

Amazing. I said those exact words in another thread, quoting the last round of MS shilling from 2012/2013.

History repeats itself.

Memba When Mario 64 launched on the N64, Mario was £79.99, in the mid 90s. NINTENDO IS DOOMED!!

Ohh wait.
Yeah but at least it was worth it. I would pay that money now without any issues. Sony is charging 70 for a fucking remaster and a ps4 dlc
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
In the real world, nobody give a shit. Game media just riding this wave right now and it's boring.


So the idea is that people are actively aiming to have Sony fail, rather than having genuine concern about the way Sony is being directed. So the OP of the thread you've referenced justifies this by saying it's what is best for the company financially, as if that should make sense to all consumers?

People want what they want. Considering Sony's financial stability is a distant second (if considered at all) for most people. This propaganda is idiocy at it's purest.
 

ZehDon

Gold Member
You don't lose access to things you paid for.
Cool, so the patches and updates that were removed are just a temporary issue, and they'll be restored in full? Because some of these games... not good without them.

Your steam analogy would only make sense if Steam for some reason had a new store like PS4 and PS5 stores in which case yeah they would do it...
And in attempting to pretend that this type of move is just standard operating procedure, you've only highlighted another issue with Sony's approach here: why isn't Sony using a shared service? Why are they stuck in the dark ages, closing stores for entire consoles to cut costs, when they've never made more money then they are making right now?

It's not like MS hasn't already done this with GFWL even with all their profits and 360s success:
What are you talking about? Your GFWL analogy would only make sense if GFWL was the online store for an entire console. Xbox Live on the Xbox 360 still works. I can still buy games, DLC, and movies, and my games can still be patched and updated as of right now. If you wanted an appropriate Microsoft comparison, you'd actually want to refer to the Xbox Live Service for the original Xbox, which was closed in 2010. This rendered the online multiplayer components of all OG Xbox Games non-functional - including those played via the Xbox 360. However, because online digital titles weren't really a thing for the OG Xbox, it didn't make much of an impact other shutting down the limited multiplayer communities for the respective titles. However, with Sony's consoles, there are versions of them that are entirely digitally only. The owners of those consoles are now screwed completely. In comparison, Microsoft closed a service barely anyone was using that shutdown multiplayer for games few if any were still playing. Night and day difference.

What Sony has done with this type of move is force gamers to ask questions that don't have favourable answers. Why would I buy a PS5DE knowing Sony plans to kill my ability to enjoy content on it in the not-distant-enough future? If Sony are planning on doing that, what else are they planning on doing that I wouldn't like? You only have to ask a handful of these before the narrative around Sony begins to change. That's whats happening in this thread, and the discussion at large.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
All Blockbusters?
Astrobot, Sackboy adventures and All stars begs to differ. Pretty sure there will be many AA titles amongst the big ones
\
No Japanese titles And studios?
Acquiring Final Fantasy 16 and Forspoken as exclusives is bigger than anything PS4 done with Japan Studios... Rather FFXVI than Knack 1&2 and Gravity Rush lol. Plus the rumoured MGS and Silent Hill games, pretty sure there will be more like Persona 6 and a Team Ninja exclusive game.
/
Days gone sequel? You want every WWS studio Making sequels? They need some new IP or bring back older ones. Theres already gonna be Horizon 2, Spider-man 2, God of War Ragnarok and Ghost of Tsushima 2. Id like for them to make something new or bring back an older classic. Not just sequels.

Seems like alot of bs and FUD from the media thats probably because theyve been taken to “dinner” by the competition lol

Just wait to e3 to see what Sony Has up there sleeves.

Between 2020 and 2021 they have and are releasing: Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOU2, Demon Souls, Sackboy, Spiderman MM, Astrobot, Returnal, Ratchet and Clank, All Stars and possibly Horizon 2.

I think they are doing fine lol Plus they have Gran Turismo 7, Final Fantasy 16 and God of War Ragnarok in 2022. Compared to the competitions they are releasing alot
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
Cool, so the patches and updates that were removed are just a temporary issue, and they'll be restored in full? Because some of these games... not good without them.


And in attempting to pretend that this type of move is just standard operating procedure, you've only highlighted another issue with Sony's approach here: why isn't Sony using a shared service? Why are they stuck in the dark ages, closing stores for entire consoles to cut costs, when they've never made more money then they are making right now?


What are you talking about? Your GFWL analogy would only make sense if GFWL was the online store for an entire console. Xbox Live on the Xbox 360 still works. I can still buy games, DLC, and movies, and my games can still be patched and updated as of right now. If you wanted an appropriate Microsoft comparison, you'd actually want to refer to the Xbox Live Service for the original Xbox, which was closed in 2010. This rendered the online multiplayer components of all OG Xbox Games non-functional - including those played via the Xbox 360. However, because online digital titles weren't really a thing for the OG Xbox, it didn't make much of an impact other shutting down the limited multiplayer communities for the respective titles. However, with Sony's consoles, there are versions of them that are entirely digitally only. The owners of those consoles are now screwed completely. In comparison, Microsoft closed a service barely anyone was using that shutdown multiplayer for games few if any were still playing. Night and day difference.

What Sony has done with this type of move is force gamers to ask questions that don't have favourable answers. Why would I buy a PS5DE knowing Sony plans to kill my ability to enjoy content on it in the not-distant-enough future? If Sony are planning on doing that, what else are they planning on doing that I wouldn't like? You only have to ask a handful of these before the narrative around Sony begins to change. That's whats happening in this thread, and the discussion at large.
My GFWL analogy is the exact same as your analogy of Steam killing games prior to 2012. I said this was silly because it actually would happen if there was a specific separate store or platform that nobody was using anymore because of a replacement. An example of that was GFWL . Where people could no longer buy games from that store and anybody who had bought games lost their digital library and ability to download. Did it stop you buying games from MS stores?

If for some reason Steam becomes as little used/irrelevant as GFWL or PS3 became it will have the same fate. However I don't see a reasonable replacement to the Steam store to make it as irrelevant today as those. it would be downright stupid to simply say "lets cut off games from 2012" but if for whatever reason heaven forbid the current Steam store was replaced or became old and not used often don't be suprised if it sees the same fate as GFWL. Barely used game stores get shut down.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
What a shit article SlimySnake SlimySnake

so much nonsense when I’m seeing plenty of risky games in development with both low and high budgets.

Jeff Grubb is a known shill, too.
If you have a few minutes watch the first few minutes where he actually talks about why the article might feel slanted. The jist of it is that its interesting to talk about Sony potentially stumbling vs praising Sony for AAA games over and over again like a broken record.

He also clarifies the bit about indie games. It's not that Sony isnt investing in those games. He mentions how they get state of play slots and ps blog posts, he is putting them in context with Sony's first party studios and why Japan Studio found itself on the short end of the stick. He's talking specifically about games with that fancy Marvel like PS logo and Sony dont want smaller weirder shit that comes out Japan studios associated with that.



The rest of the stuff is about Jim Ryan just doing a piss poor job with the marketing and the fans. He brought up how he almost never talks about the games hes trying to sell. How he just doesnt feel like he engages with the ps userbase like the other execs did who famously went after gamers by focusing on what they wanted. TBH, I agree. I think he does a piss poor job selling these games. Selling the playstation experience. He goes missing 6 months at a time. I remember how you and I went nuts when we heard they delayed the PS5 conference during the George Floyd protests. In retrospect, its because we were starved for something. Anything. We had gone 2 full years without a sony conference. 2 years.

And now we are supposed to wait a year to see Horizon and GT7? We are supposed to be ok with just a title for GoW? For 8 months?

It's just trash. You control the narrative by engaging with the fanbase or by doing regular press or conferences. Hes doing none of those things. I keep saying this but all he has to do is show us what hes got cooking. He hides like an anti-social boy for months at a time. He doesnt let his teams talk about the game. Everything is a state secret. Would it kill them to release some info on Horizon or gow? a screenshot? look at the tlou remake blew up in his face. no one wants that shit. show us that cares about what ps gamers want. And we want more of the same. Kojima. Bloodborne. bluepoint. Days Gone. Hes just so out of touch. or rather he feels like hes out of touch which is what Jeff is trying to say.
 
Last edited:

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
The rush from some to bash Sony is becoming so desperate that now even an article from Jeff Grub becomes credible/valid in some people's eyes. What's next, Kotaku? 😂

The level of competence here is similar to his other famous Venturebeat colleague. It's always nice to see that certain outlets' hiring policies are consistent 😂



As a platform-agnostic gamer mostly focused on PC and journalist who likes to write about games of all kinds instead of spurious drama, this console war stuff is becoming beyond hilarious. The level of melodrama is worthy of the corniest tragicomic play, and the rush to post here all the low-effort attempts by press and youtubers to ride the wave of malcontent for clicks is super-funny. I guess some really have a massive need to feel validated in their raging at some executive dude.
 
Last edited:

Menzies

Banned
If I had the power to kill one word it would unquestionably be 'narrative'.

There's always been this dichotomy in gaming journalism, where one can't go up without the other going down. A positive outlook for one, means a negative story for the other. A slight dip in trajectory earns sensationalist grabbing headlines, but likewise some in the community want to stick their heads in the sand and not look past the tip of their nose.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
So the idea is that people are actively aiming to have Sony fail, rather than having genuine concern about the way Sony is being directed. So the OP of the thread you've referenced justifies this by saying it's what is best for the company financially, as if that should make sense to all consumers?

People want what they want. Considering Sony's financial stability is a distant second (if considered at all) for most people. This propaganda is idiocy at it's purest.

We also have to turn a blind eye to the fact that most of the forum posts here regarding Sony management recently have been from long-time posters that are obvious Sony fans. Same with 95% of the YT videos.

Yet, somehow this is a coordinated "attack" from the outside. Now the gaming journalism scene isn't quite 60 minutes caliber, so if the Sony guys keep making a stink about everything like this they should expect the gaming media to run with the narrative just for clicks. Keep shoveling guys, keep shoveling. LOL
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
James Sawyer Ford James Sawyer Ford Watch the Colin podcast. He's far more harsh, but a lot of cohesive in his arguments.



Frankly this terrified me. Colin is a big Sony fanboy so he's coming from the same place. This weird nagging feeling that there are just not talking to us. The way they are killing PS3 and Vita stores, its just shocking. How they give us release dates for games, and then dont follow up on them. Forget horizon making 2021, not even the most hardcore sony fans believe the fact that GoW will be coming out this year like sony said just 8 months ago. They are failing to excite gamers. They have just sat on their ass for months. I was super hyped after the PS5 launch, and now I feel nothing. I dont want to turn on my playstation. There is nothing to look forward to and just bad news after another. Studio shutdowns, store shutdowns, exclusives going free on other platforms, rumors after rumors of devs ending decades long relationships with them.

It's getting exhausting and this guy is just sitting there doing nothing. Not a single word. He wont even release sales figures of games and consoles. Like FFS give us something. How can a guy from marketing be this bad at creating excitement. It's literally the only thing he's good at, its literally the reason why he got hired as CEO. It sure as hell wasnt his game development skills. Why even hire him if narrative isnt important, if marketing isnt important, if generating excitement isnt important? If the console will sell anyway why hire a marketing CEO?
 
Top Bottom