ManaByte
Gold Member
So if Starfield is on Xbox and PC but not any other console what does that make it.
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Jeff Grubb: "Starfield is exclusive to Xbox and PC. Period."
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
So if Starfield is on Xbox and PC but not any other console what does that make it.
yurinka
Member
Yes, I added the transcription to the post, too. Phil says they will ship their exclusive games where GP exists but also will continue releasing Bethesda stuff for non-MS platforms. He even say that obviously can't sit there and say every Bethesda game is an Xbox exclusive because we know that's not true.
His words match with the 'first on or better on Xbox" quote. They can release some future Bethesda games as timed console exclusive on Xbox and other ones multiplatform since day one and that would fit the words of both Phil Spencer in that round table and the Xbox CFO words mentioned months before.
They only announced the PC port of first game. The second one is only announced for PS4 and PS5. Jim Ryan said they plan to release more PS4 (notice he said PS4, not PS5) on PC. Probably their idea is to release PC port of old games to build hype and fanbase before releasing their PS5 sequels and to get some extra revenue.
In this case, the first Horizon was a full exclusive and now is a console exclusive. Its sequel at least for now will be a full (crossgen) exclusive.
It would make it a console exclusive.
If some time after being released on Xbox gets announced for PlayStation it would become a timed console exclusive instead of a full console exclusive. But still would count as exclusive.
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FrankWza
Member
xbox console exclusive also available on pc. xbox and pc are not synonymous despite pc running windows which is owned by Microsoft as well. If they were, you would be able to play flight simulator on it right now. Once you add the second platform it cannot be termed exclusive without separate designation. So, console exclusive. Ratchet, for example, is exclusive. There’s no and or /. It’s only on PS5. Not PS exclusive or PS5 and pc. Just a PS5 exclusive.
ManaByte
Gold Member
That's not what he said at all. We went over this two months ago. He's talking about LEGACY games that already exist on other platforms like FO76 and TESO.
Silent Viper
Banned
Poor PS fanboys. They need hugs
FrankWza
Member
Yeah. So until it’s on pc it’s a PlayStation exclusive and it doesn’t mean every title will hit pc. When and if a title hits pc it’s PlayStationconsole exclusive also available on pc.
When xbox decided to use the install base of pc to make console exclusivity sustainable, they still lost overall exclusivity because it’s available on another platform or multiple other platforms. Just not on other consoles. Adding the / doesn’t make them the same.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Believe what you want if it makes you feel better.Xbox CFO, so the guy in charge of the financials of Xbox (not a random MS financial executive) said:
"Bethesda games will be “first or better or best,” on Xbox consoles when they are released."... “What we’ll do in the long run is we don’t have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise,” Stuart says. “But what we want is we want that content, in the long run, to be either first or better or best or pick your differentiated experience, on our platforms. We will want Bethesda content to show up the best as — on our platforms.”
Microsoft Wants Bethesda Games 'First or Better or Best' on Xbox - IGN
Microsoft says that Bethesda games coming to cross-platform will be 'first or better or best' on an Xbox console or platform.www.ign.com
Phil Spencer said later:
"Obviously I can't sit here and say every Bethesda game is [an Xbox] exclusive, because we know that's not true," he explained. "There's contractual obligations that we're going to see through. We have games that exist on other platforms and we're going to go and support those games on the platforms they're on. There's communities of players - we love those communities and will continue to invest in them - and even in the future there might be...either contractual things or legacy on different platforms that we'll go do.
But if you're an Xbox customer," Spencer continued, "the thing I want you to know is this is about delivering great exclusive games for you that ship on platforms where Game Pass exists. And that's our goal, that's why we're doing this, that's the root of this partnership that we're building - and the creative capability we'll be able to bring to market for Xbox customers is going to be the best it's ever been for Xbox after we're done here."
So yes, they will continue releasing Bethesda games on PlayStation even if some of them will be shipped at launch as timed console exclusives on platforms where Game Pass exists. And I assume some game or DLC will be full console exclusive for Xbox. They will ship the games on their platforms, but they won't abandon the other ones.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Yep, HUGE UNPRECEDENTED NEWS that MS games are being released on PC, I can understand your surprise.
mortal
Gold Member
Same lol.Exactly. These Starfield threads are starting to feel like...
Gamers: I need to see what this Starfield game is about
A few other gamers:
Like we're just going to pretend like Fallout 4 & Fallout 76 didn't happen?
I'm not going to deny the commercial success of many of Bethesda Game Studios' titles, but quality wise they've been hit or miss and the aforementioned titles have been real stinkers imo.
I'm highly skeptical about modern day BGS's output, but it shouldn't be too long now till we hopefully see the actual game (in 1 month?)
Fulcizombie
Banned
Fallout 4 is a fantastic game.
DarkParadise
Member
I do have the same "problem" as you. It's a shame, because otherwise i would have gotten the game for the PS5. Also can't upgrade my GPU, since the card market is fcked. I'm assuming that with our 1070 the game will be able to run at 1080p/60fps with a few settings dropped, since it will be not a "true" next-gen game. Worst case scenario would still be 1080p/30, but then again i doubt it's going to run worse than CP2077 did.
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yurinka
Member
Yes, he's talking about to continue releasing DLC and sequels of existing series like Fallout or Elder Scrolls on PlayStation, plus contractual stuff they signed (Ghostwire Tokyo, Deathloop and who knows if that also includes Indiana Jones or Starfield, because he mentiones more future contractual things on other platforms). Yes, they will ship their stuff on Xbox and PC but they won't stop releasing Bethesda stuff on other platforms either at launch or after some timed console exclusivity period.
"Obviously I can't sit here and say every Bethesda game is [an Xbox] exclusive, because we know that's not true," he explained. "There's contractual obligations that we're going to see through. We have games that exist on other platforms and we're going to go and support those games on the platforms they're on. There's communities of players - we love those communities and will continue to invest in them - and even in the future there might be...either contractual things or legacy on different platforms that we'll go do.
But if you're an Xbox customer," Spencer continued, "the thing I want you to know is this is about delivering great exclusive games for you that ship on platforms where Game Pass exists. "
mancstheps5fanboy
Banned
calls the question of what ,period, in time... attains too.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Not on any other console.
Raekwon26
Member
.......Nah, not doing it.
Sloth Guevara
Banned
Just like the multiple threads talking about “69 games and new IP coming to PSBOX” I’m going to wait it out and see what happens.
Being a Nintendo fan boy has taught me to keep expectations low, thus you’ll always be pleased by stuff that aren’t crap. Hope it isn’t shit despite not having a Xbox or PC (being poor with a baby is what it is) for my fellow people’s.
Being a Nintendo fan boy has taught me to keep expectations low, thus you’ll always be pleased by stuff that aren’t crap. Hope it isn’t shit despite not having a Xbox or PC (being poor with a baby is what it is) for my fellow people’s.
cromofo
Member
Why do people do this to themselves? Oh well...Xbox CFO, so the guy in charge of the financials of Xbox (not a random MS financial executive) said:
"Bethesda games will be “first or better or best,” on Xbox consoles when they are released."... “What we’ll do in the long run is we don’t have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise,” Stuart says. “But what we want is we want that content, in the long run, to be either first or better or best or pick your differentiated experience, on our platforms. We will want Bethesda content to show up the best as — on our platforms.”
Microsoft Wants Bethesda Games 'First or Better or Best' on Xbox - IGN
Microsoft says that Bethesda games coming to cross-platform will be 'first or better or best' on an Xbox console or platform.
Phil Spencer said later:
"Obviously I can't sit here and say every Bethesda game is [an Xbox] exclusive, because we know that's not true," he explained. "There's contractual obligations that we're going to see through. We have games that exist on other platforms and we're going to go and support those games on the platforms they're on. There's communities of players - we love those communities and will continue to invest in them - and even in the future there might be...either contractual things or legacy on different platforms that we'll go do.
But if you're an Xbox customer," Spencer continued, "the thing I want you to know is this is about delivering great exclusive games for you that ship on platforms where Game Pass exists. And that's our goal, that's why we're doing this, that's the root of this partnership that we're building - and the creative capability we'll be able to bring to market for Xbox customers is going to be the best it's ever been for Xbox after we're done here."
So yes, they will continue releasing Bethesda games on PlayStation even if some of them will be shipped at launch as timed console exclusives on platforms where Game Pass exists. And I assume some game or DLC will be full console exclusive for Xbox. They will ship the games on their platforms, but they won't abandon the other ones.
yurinka
Member
Yes, you are missing they often call exclusives to timed console exclusives, which means it isn't released at launch in other consoles, but gets released in the other console some time later. And that they mentioned stuff like their "first on or better on" and that he can't sit there and say all Bethesda games are exclusive, etc.
ManaByte
Gold Member
They didn't spend $7 billion on Bethesda to release games on their competitor's console.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
abacab driver
Banned
Well that's because they just refer to the Standard Issue Flow Chart®:
This is phenomenal.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
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Fredrik
Member
Lol that’s going a bit far I think, but I expect bigger maps on each planet than in Mass Effect and The Outer Worlds at least. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim all feel unique and they’ve done some really cool areas within these games in both expansions and main games so I have high hopes that they’ll deliver something cool and diverse with this game.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Well that's because they just refer to the Standard Issue Flow Chart®:
geordiemp
Member
Got to admit, I liked both evil within, not enough to say buy a console for or in a league like say god war, but I enjoyed them and reminded me of RE4.
The rest of Betheseda catalogue you would have to remind me what they were, so who gives a crap.
Wake me up when evil within 3 is announced.
The rest of Betheseda catalogue you would have to remind me what they were, so who gives a crap.
Wake me up when evil within 3 is announced.
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
Is there a reason we still postin Jeff Grubb? Dude's Twitter feed is a mess, same with him as a person. Very disgusting, looks homeless, probably smells homeless.
I'll wait to hear confirmation from Daddy Todd.
I'll wait to hear confirmation from Daddy Todd.
Dusktildawn48
Member
It's so funny that people like yourself shit on Microsoft for doing something VERY positive for gamers.
Julius Ibidus
Member
the mods are going to be glorious!
VFXVeteran
Banned
Oh my god. Dude, this is so true on these boards. Props!Well that's because they just refer to the Standard Issue Flow Chart®:
SteelCurtain 59
Member
How do we know PC doesn't mean "Playstation Console" in this instance? How can the wording be so ambiguous...........
In all seriousness, this was to be expected, just some Playstation fans not used to being left out from a game (or studio) they're excited for. And doesn't surprise me all the massive downplaying of this game, and BGS, now that it's console exclusive. However for me, BGS is my favorite dev (and they were long before they were owned by Xbox in case anybody tries to claim bias, Oblivion is my favorite game of the past 20 years), and I can't wait to see what "Skyrim in space" looks like
In all seriousness, this was to be expected, just some Playstation fans not used to being left out from a game (or studio) they're excited for. And doesn't surprise me all the massive downplaying of this game, and BGS, now that it's console exclusive. However for me, BGS is my favorite dev (and they were long before they were owned by Xbox in case anybody tries to claim bias, Oblivion is my favorite game of the past 20 years), and I can't wait to see what "Skyrim in space" looks like
.Pennywise
Banned
We know that all PS owners have a high end PC, it's a fact.
BaneIsPain
Member
Not a huge miss for me. I’ll play it on PC.
reinking
Gold Member
Eventually it has to deliver a return on the investment in some way. It could be front end with subs, backend with sales or a combination of both but at some point it has to make money. Even if you believe that Nadella and Spencer are diehard behind it they will not be at MS for ever. I will breath a lot easier when we are getting reports of profit from the service instead of comments that mean nothing like "don't worry about us."
yurinka
Member
Both the Xbox CFO and Phil Spencer said they will release Bethesda games on their competitor's console. Which isn't something new, they released Minecraft Dungeons in their competitor's console several years after buying the IP for $2.5 billion.
If we split the Zenimax $7.5B between all their studios and IPs, they spend less money per studio/IP on Bethesda than on Minecraft.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
That is 100% not what Phil Spencer said after the deal closed and you know it. He said they would continue to support LEGACY titles such as FO76 and TESO or provide patches to games that receive patches but future titles are exclusive to GamePass platforms.
FrankWza
Member
Service seller.
Physiognomonics
Member
FF16 is also exclusive to Playstation. Does that mean the game will never release on Xbox? "Exclusive" is like "4K". Those words are meaningless nowadays.
Mr Moose
Member
They own them, they can do what they want.
A multiplat that's exclusively not on other consoles
ManaByte
Gold Member
Sony doesn't own Square Enix or the FF IP.
sendit
Member
Agreed. People should not expect Bethesda games on the PS platform going forward. However, the PC is still the best platform to play Bethesda games (or any game for that matter). This is coming to PC day 1.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Where did MS touch you?
VFXVeteran
Banned
Hello Xbox Fans!
The OP reached out to me to ask about the global illumination used in Starfield:
This is the kind of responses that I love. Someone wants to know more about my opinion, then I'll happily give it.
Global Illumination is a large topic, but I really need to hit home why it's so important to get right in future games now that we have hardware capable of doing it right.
In order to get a really good approximation to the rendering equation, you have to take into account shadowing and ambient occlusion. Every single game company has used the same approach to get global illumination bounces in a scene and every one of them has failed in making it hold up well under any lighting situation. That's because all of them used screenspace techniques to get the look and the limitations of screenspace are jarringly apparent IF you know how something SHOULD look.
Here is a video clip of the new RE8 game using RT GI and AO.
Notice there is supposedly a light source in a dark area and not only is it not casting shadows but the global illumination isn't normalizing the equation on the table by using ambient occlusion with the objects on the table. I can't stress this enough that this form of lighitng is in every Sony game, it's exclusives, all Xbox games, all PC games, Nintendo, even the UE5 demo, etc.. etc.. It's even in game cinematics that so many people go crazy over. Many people think this can be approximated better using screenspace solutions and there is only ONE case of this being true.
So how is it supposed to look?
There are only 3 games that do this properly (not counting Minecraft/Quake RTX):
Marble Game by Nvidia - uses full path traced rays to compute every single light source bounce and all of the secondary bounces for global illumination with proper shadowing and ambient occlusion. Results? Expensive even on RTX 3090 + DLSS (average 30FPS @ native 4k).
FS2020 - they use light probes but these guys push the current distance of ambient occlusion to extreme measures causing a physical light on the runway to have a large shadow behind it taking up the entire area of the light itself. It is better than nothing and looks convincing. Result? Expensive even on a RTX 3090 (averaging a little over 30FPS @ native 4k in dense populations).
Finally Metro Enhanced Edition - full RT lighting pipeline where EVERY SINGLE LIGHT SOURCE casts shadows and continued global illumination light bounces. Here is a clip of a scene on the train that's just like RE8.
Notice the gun, lamp, and both cups are properly "planted" to the table. You've got 2 light sources in that room. Outside sun, and the lamp on the table. GI is being bounced all around the scene but the objects are properly normalizing the illumination on the table. All characters clothes self-shadow like they are supposed to. Guitar in hand casts shadows on his hand. His holster cast shadows on his shirt, etc.. etc..
Back to Starfield. They are also using light probe GI and in the screenshots, it's jarringly obvious. This is not to pick on Starfield because every other game does the same thing.
In conclusion, until we get more developers to adopt full on RT GI with AO and PBR shaders that use the lighting equation properly, you will still all think the game looks "wonderful" from an artistic point of view. Even a cartoon looking game will look transformative using the full RTGI pipeline. It will take us ever closer to true CG-worthy graphics.
When you console gamers start to play through ALL of Metro EE, go back to other games and should immediately feel like something is "off" about the game. Once you start seeing how lighting is supposed to behave, you will easily pick up on the flaws of other games that don't use it correctly.
The OP reached out to me to ask about the global illumination used in Starfield:
Starfield said:
This is the kind of responses that I love. Someone wants to know more about my opinion, then I'll happily give it.
Global Illumination is a large topic, but I really need to hit home why it's so important to get right in future games now that we have hardware capable of doing it right.
In order to get a really good approximation to the rendering equation, you have to take into account shadowing and ambient occlusion. Every single game company has used the same approach to get global illumination bounces in a scene and every one of them has failed in making it hold up well under any lighting situation. That's because all of them used screenspace techniques to get the look and the limitations of screenspace are jarringly apparent IF you know how something SHOULD look.
Here is a video clip of the new RE8 game using RT GI and AO.
Notice there is supposedly a light source in a dark area and not only is it not casting shadows but the global illumination isn't normalizing the equation on the table by using ambient occlusion with the objects on the table. I can't stress this enough that this form of lighitng is in every Sony game, it's exclusives, all Xbox games, all PC games, Nintendo, even the UE5 demo, etc.. etc.. It's even in game cinematics that so many people go crazy over. Many people think this can be approximated better using screenspace solutions and there is only ONE case of this being true.
So how is it supposed to look?
There are only 3 games that do this properly (not counting Minecraft/Quake RTX):
Marble Game by Nvidia - uses full path traced rays to compute every single light source bounce and all of the secondary bounces for global illumination with proper shadowing and ambient occlusion. Results? Expensive even on RTX 3090 + DLSS (average 30FPS @ native 4k).
FS2020 - they use light probes but these guys push the current distance of ambient occlusion to extreme measures causing a physical light on the runway to have a large shadow behind it taking up the entire area of the light itself. It is better than nothing and looks convincing. Result? Expensive even on a RTX 3090 (averaging a little over 30FPS @ native 4k in dense populations).
Finally Metro Enhanced Edition - full RT lighting pipeline where EVERY SINGLE LIGHT SOURCE casts shadows and continued global illumination light bounces. Here is a clip of a scene on the train that's just like RE8.
Notice the gun, lamp, and both cups are properly "planted" to the table. You've got 2 light sources in that room. Outside sun, and the lamp on the table. GI is being bounced all around the scene but the objects are properly normalizing the illumination on the table. All characters clothes self-shadow like they are supposed to. Guitar in hand casts shadows on his hand. His holster cast shadows on his shirt, etc.. etc..
Back to Starfield. They are also using light probe GI and in the screenshots, it's jarringly obvious. This is not to pick on Starfield because every other game does the same thing.
In conclusion, until we get more developers to adopt full on RT GI with AO and PBR shaders that use the lighting equation properly, you will still all think the game looks "wonderful" from an artistic point of view. Even a cartoon looking game will look transformative using the full RTGI pipeline. It will take us ever closer to true CG-worthy graphics.
When you console gamers start to play through ALL of Metro EE, go back to other games and should immediately feel like something is "off" about the game. Once you start seeing how lighting is supposed to behave, you will easily pick up on the flaws of other games that don't use it correctly.
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