• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Rumor Clickbait Cringe Jason Schreier from Kotaku reiterates that devs do not like Lockhart, "significantly less RAM"

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
15,990
27,581
1,200
If you're a publisher spending millions on a game that needs to be recouped would you rather take this chance with a user base that span across 50 million+ Xbox Ones & Xbox Scarletts or would you rather take that chance on making the game exclusive to a high price Xbox Scarlett?

Couldn’t they just use the X for that purpose? The specs are going to be so close to one another there won’t be much difference.
 
Jan 21, 2019
4,052
4,875
460
If that's what you want then buy a PC. Consoles aren't PCs.
Exactly, it’s not like consoles have x86 Ryzen 2 processors with Radeon Navi GPU’s with GDDR6 RAM.. with.. oh wait... but I though they were nothing like PCs. But why do their specs state otherwise?

Isnt it weird that Sony and Microsoft went x86 for easier development? some would say that games are built on PC. How odd.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bladed Thesis

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,358
23,631
815
Cross gen games I get, and this will happen on both Sony and MS, what I don’t get is if Lockhart exists and is for casuals, then who is it for, when casuals can just play those same games on the cheapest solution?

Hardcore early adopters are sure not going after Lockhart and will b line straight to Anaconda.

Seems like an odd duck.
One possible angle is as what we are seeing today. We have the pro and we have the X. The more powerful systems are outsold by the cheap versions sales wise. Microsoft is likely betting on market domination with a cheap price, ignoring the traditional tech benefit in ushering a new gen and pleasing the hard-core gamers.

it’s all about the Benjamins baby
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
One possible angle is as what we are seeing today. We have the pro and we have the X. The more powerful systems are outsold by the cheap versions sales wise. Microsoft is likely betting on market domination with a cheap price, ignoring the traditional tech benefit in ushering a new gen and pleasing the hard-core gamers.

it’s all about the Benjamins baby

Yes, but if the same games run in the cheapest model (One S), then what incentives to casuals have to buy the more expensive Lockhart?

Hardcore and early adopters won’t, they go for Anaconda.

So who is Lockhart for enough to fab two different SoCs with Scarlet, if last gen is still getting the games at a much more casual price.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,358
23,631
815
Yes, but if the same games run in the cheapest model (One S), then what incentives to casuals have to buy the more expensive Lockhart?

Hardcore and early adopters won’t, they go for Anaconda.

So who is Lockhart for enough to fab two different SoCs with Scarlet, if last gen is still getting the games at a much more casual price.

While Microsoft is seemingly targeting Xbox S with their games as the base platform going forward, I can’t imagine third parties being held back by the notion, at least for long. You can’t have Sony titles being the only technical benchmark in the new generation.

I’m actually quite annoyed at Microsoft and their potential to diminish generational advancement. Cheap under powerEd systems, no VR.

Bad for innovation, bad for gamers, bad Microsoft. See how it all plays out.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,297
9,196
1,420
Cross gen games I get, and this will happen on both Sony and MS, what I don’t get is if Lockhart exists and is for casuals, then who is it for, when casuals can just play those same games on the cheapest solution?

Hardcore early adopters are sure not going after Lockhart and will b line straight to Anaconda.

Seems like an odd duck.

It's for the publishers so they will feel that it's worth it to make games that use the new hardware , it's for the people who want the new features that next gen will bring , it's for the big market of people who don't game on a 4K TV ,



Couldn’t they just use the X for that purpose? The specs are going to be so close to one another there won’t be much difference.

Why didn't Nintendo just use the Gamecube with a new remote?


Xbox One X is still just a Xbox One
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
It's for the publishers so they will feel that it's worth it to make games that use the new hardware , it's for the people who want the new features that next gen will bring , it's for the big market of people who don't game on a 4K TV ,





Why didn't Nintendo just use the Gamecube with a new remote?


Xbox One X is still just a Xbox One

Why will casuals pay more when they are seeing the same games on their current TV, and to them that’s “1080p”?

Those who want new hot features are enthusiasts early on or the hardcore. They will want Anaconda over Lockhart, even on a 1080p set (supersampling and performance).

Casuals don’t jump in heavy until they are done with games on the gen they stayed behind on, and there are enough software to entice.

If they will continue to support the S, then Lockhart is the odd man out for that market it is supposedly aimed at. The low price casual bargain shoppers.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,297
9,196
1,420
Lockhart is still running similar specs, it’s not even advanced enough to be considered as an X2 if the rumours are right.

Ray-tracing , better CPU , more advance GPU , SSD & so on it's not going to be that similar to Xbox One X .
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,297
9,196
1,420
Why will casuals pay more when they are seeing the same games on their current TV, and to them that’s “1080p”?

Those who want new hot features are enthusiasts early on or the hardcore. They will want Anaconda over Lockhart, even on a 1080p set (supersampling and performance).

Casuals don’t jump in heavy until they are done with games on the gen they stayed behind on, and there are enough software to entice.

If they will continue to support the S, then Lockhart is the odd man out for that market it is supposedly aimed at. The low price casual bargain shoppers.


Games on Lockhart will look closer to games being played on Anaconda than they will to games running on Xbox One S & Xbox One X .
 

Psykodad

Banned
Apr 9, 2018
4,143
7,039
465
You sure they care mostly about gameplay? I don't think they do as much as the hardcore gamer.
One could argue that hardcore gamers know how to appreciate all aspects of games and gaming, because they are hardcore gamers and truly passionate about gaming.

Whereas casual gamers are more like simpletons and one-dimensional.

That's why a non-gaming girlfriend or mom is more likely to get a Nintendo instead of PlayStation or Xbox.
(for example)
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
Games on Lockhart will look closer to games being played on Anaconda than they will to games running on Xbox One S & Xbox One X .

I understand that, but casuals don’t care about those things. People are saying Lockhart is aimed at casuals, but if the S is supported, then they are either already all set, or will buy the cheapest as people claim (before Lockhart existed).

It’s a confusing argument when casuals and cheaper price is brought into the mix.
 
Last edited:

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
9,100
3,430
1,650
Ray-tracing , better CPU , more advance GPU , SSD & so on it's not going to be that similar to Xbox One X .

RT will be nothing but a bullet point with 4TF.

Casuals ain't gonna bite if they need to cough up $299 for what largely amounts to be a texture pack upgrade.

Saavy casuals will just wait 2 years and buy a used Scarlett or PS5 for way better value.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
15,990
27,581
1,200
Ray-tracing , better CPU , more advance GPU , SSD & so on it's not going to be that similar to Xbox One X .

Ray-Tracing probably won’t happen on those specs, CPU will improve framerate and a 4TF GPU will equal out to being roughly the same give or take.
 

Otterz4Life

Member
Jul 21, 2019
336
322
285
This could mean that MS is going to kill off the Xbox One a lot quicker than theyve been letting on. Not a bad move imo, assuming the Lockhart is $299.
 
Apr 19, 2019
9,171
15,131
780
Away with the fairies
The Xbox one X is forward compatible, Microsoft admitted this

The Xbox One X is not an Xbox One. It only shares a CPU. The GPU, RAM and IIRC, Motherboard are all different. It sits in a different case, designed differently to an Xbox One.

Are Kotaku saying that the lockhart will compete with the X? Or are they going to pull the plug on the Xbox One and force migration to the next gen?

To say this is Microsofts 4th generation, they still don't understand the market.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,297
9,196
1,420
I understand that, but casuals don’t care about those things. People are saying Lockhart is aimed at casuals, but if the S is supported, then they are either already all set, or will buy the cheapest as people claim (before Lockhart existed).

It’s a confusing argument when casuals and cheaper price is brought into the mix.

Casuals don't always just buy the cheapest thing on the market . Scarlett might have features that make it a hot topic so people will go out & buy it over getting a old Xbox One , Lockhart will still have the features .


The difference between Xbox One & Xbox One X is bigger than the difference that Lockhart & Anaconda will have so it's not like they will look at them side by side & think that Lockhart is from the last generation. the games will pretty much be the same but higher resolution & better performance on Anaconda.
 

imsosleepy

Member
Sep 29, 2019
519
746
355
The problem with this point is that there's NO WAY Microsoft will profit using this as their main method to continuing the Xbox brand. No chance in hell. $10 a month just isn't enough to support this thing. The price will have to eventually go up to $20-$25 a month (if you really want more of the latest games and good 1st party game support).
10 a month and each game filled with mkcrotransactions
 

Aidah

Member
Jan 6, 2019
1,118
1,230
385
They started with "working on our next consoles", then switched to "console", and now apparently back to "consoles". Why so indecisive...

The gimped one will still be better overall than Pro/X, because of the CPU/SSD, but if it's not way cheaper than PS5/Anaconda then it's pointless and could turn out to be a costly mistake.

As for the GPUs in PS5/Anaconda being better than a 2080, doubt it, the consoles are only what, $499?
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Jun 14, 2004
14,600
36
1,585
Austin
Casuals don't always just buy the cheapest thing on the market . Scarlett might have features that make it a hot topic so people will go out & buy it over getting a old Xbox One , Lockhart will still have the features .


The difference between Xbox One & Xbox One X is bigger than the difference that Lockhart & Anaconda will have so it's not like they will look at them side by side & think that Lockhart is from the last generation. the games will pretty much be the same but higher resolution & better performance on Anaconda.

I don't think One X and Lockheart will compete. Sounds like Lockheart is built from the ground up for cost efficiency, so while some performance specs may be similar, One X would be discontinued quick because the whole point is to bypass the early adopter phase and sell a fuck ton of the cheaper models to get marketshare.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZywyPL

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,297
9,196
1,420
Ray-Tracing probably won’t happen on those specs, CPU will improve framerate and a 4TF GPU will equal out to being roughly the same give or take.


If Ray-tracing can happen at 4K on a 12TF GPU what make you think it can't happen at 1080p on a 4TF GPU?


if a phone has Ray-tracing hardware it can be done on a phone with less than 1TF .
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
I don't think One X and Lockheart will compete. Sounds like Lockheart is built from the ground up for cost efficiency, so while some performance specs may be similar, One X would be discontinued quick because the whole point is to bypass the early adopter phase and sell a fuck ton of the cheaper models to get marketshare.

This is the only way I see it working. But we shall see.
 

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
14,563
14,705
1,800
Cross gen games I get, and this will happen on both Sony and MS, what I don’t get is if Lockhart exists and is for casuals, then who is it for, when casuals can just play those same games on the cheapest solution?

Hardcore early adopters are sure not going after Lockhart and will b line straight to Anaconda.

Seems like an odd duck.

Well, even casuals like to upgrade their shit, and the Lockhart will be a significant upgrade over the One S. I do agree it's a tricky thing to sell, but it would offer an upgrade path that isn't buying a 3 year old machine (One X) or spending $500 or whatever (Anaconda). If anything the One X is going to be the device that disappears if they went ahead with this - I just don't see where it fits in.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
Well, even casuals like to upgrade their shit, and the Lockhart will be a significant upgrade over the One S. I do agree it's a tricky thing to sell, but it would offer an upgrade path that isn't buying a 3 year old machine (One X) or spending $500 or whatever (Anaconda). If anything the One X is going to be the device that disappears if they went ahead with this - I just don't see where it fits in.

If they are not buying the upgraded X, then...

Only way I see it hoping to work, is if X is discontinued. They surely would not discontinue the S, since they said all games will run on it next gen.

But even then it is a tough sell when price is king to casuals. Not to mention the SoC cost will not be that much different to warrant a $200 price discrepancy (based on the $500 vs $300 people are guesstimating). But we shall see.
 
Last edited:
Oct 16, 2017
1,791
2,945
405
Well, even casuals like to upgrade their shit, and the Lockhart will be a significant upgrade over the One S. I do agree it's a tricky thing to sell, but it would offer an upgrade path that isn't buying a 3 year old machine (One X) or spending $500 or whatever (Anaconda).
But without new games, what is the incentive to upgrade?

The jokes go around that most PC gamers have old machines, but that is because most of our machines could still play the games we want to play. So there is no incentive to upgrade when it doesn't expand the games we have access to.

The "casuals like to upgrade their shit" statement is not based on any facts. The only kind of upgrade that sells is if it gives them games they couldn't othewise play. You know, next gen exclusives.

Upgrading for the sake of upgrading does not sound casual to me.

If they are not buying the upgraded X, then...

Only way I see it hoping to work, is if X is discontinued. They surely would not discontinue the S, since they said all games will run on it next gen.
Even that wouldn't work. There would be a flood of 2nd hand Xbox 1X on the market after Scarlet comes out. And those 2nd hand machines would be perfect for those who want to save some money.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DeepEnigma

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,602
14,649
2,000
If you're a publisher spending millions on a game that needs to be recouped would you rather take this chance with a user base that span across 50 million+ Xbox Ones & Xbox Scarletts or would you rather take that chance on making the game exclusive to a high price Xbox Scarlett?

This way of thinking tells me MS doesn't really believe in Xbox Anaconda selling that well. So they are creating an Xbox Scarlett "family" of consoles instead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NickFire

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
14,563
14,705
1,800
But without new games, what is the incentive to upgrade?

The jokes go around that most PC gamers have old machines, but that is because most of our machines could still play the games we want to play. So there is no incentive to upgrade when it doesn't expand the games we have access to.

The "casuals like to upgrade their shit" statement is not based on any facts. The only kind of upgrade that sells is if it gives them games they couldn't othewise play. You know, next gen exclusives.

Upgrading for the sake of upgrading does not sound casual to me.


Even that wouldn't work. There would be a flood of 2nd hand Xbox 1X on the market after Scarlet comes out. And those 2nd hand machines would be perfect for those who want to save some money.

When I said that about casuals, I wasn't thinking about videogames. How many people upgrade their phones every other year for no reason other than the new one exists? Would people apply the same mindset to console? Maybe, maybe not. But I think it's clear MS is not thinking of videogame consoles the way we all have thought about them since the NES.

If they say, here's Xbox Lockhart, it plays all your games better, it's $299, and there's a year of GamePass bundled in - would people take that deal? Maybe.

This way of thinking tells me MS doesn't really believe in Xbox Anaconda selling that well. So they are creating an Xbox Scarlett "family" of consoles instead.

Speaking for myself, I don't plan on buying a Scarlett. I'd rather use that $500 to upgrade my PC when the time comes. I have no plans to get Scarlett especially when I can get all the games. And I do own a One X.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Dec 21, 2013
5,051
3,801
1,070
Recife, Brasil
the GPU is basically PS4 Pro level
So the next generation Xbox will be less powerfull than the Xbox One X?! STONKS!
I guess that he wanted to say that the jump from One X to Lockhart is like the same jump from base PS4 to Pro, but my language is sarcasm, so...
 
Oct 16, 2017
1,791
2,945
405
When I said that about casuals, I wasn't thinking about videogames. How many people upgrade their phones every other year for no reason other than the new one exists? Would people apply the same mindset to console? Maybe, maybe not. But I think it's clear MS doesn't think of videogame consoles the way we all have thought about them since the NES.
People who upgrade their phones every year, are NOT the kind of people who would buy a Lockhart.

Made up your mind. Are you aiming for people who are cheap or people who are whales? You can't target both.

And if Microsoft decided they are not going to imitate how Nintendo and Sony succeeded in the console buisness... Then maybe Microsoft no longer want to be in the console buisness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

billyxci

13 year old console warrior. Put me on ignore.
Aug 3, 2014
13,819
8,747
1,040
The Xbox one X is forward compatible, Microsoft admitted this

The Xbox One X is not an Xbox One. It only shares a CPU. The GPU, RAM and IIRC, Motherboard are all different. It sits in a different case, designed differently to an Xbox One.

Are Kotaku saying that the lockhart will compete with the X? Or are they going to pull the plug on the Xbox One and force migration to the next gen?

To say this is Microsofts 4th generation, they still don't understand the market.
what a load of crap. the X is a an XB1

lockhart wouldn't even be a thing if the X wasn't an XB1. if it was "forward compatible" as you say then they'd have it stick around and just lower the price next year. but of course with Lockhart it looks like it will be replaced.
 
Last edited:

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
14,563
14,705
1,800
People who upgrade their phones every year, are NOT the kind of people who would buy a Lockhart.

Made up your mind. Are you aiming for people who are cheap or people who are whales? You can't target both.

And if Microsoft decided they are not going to imitate how Nintendo and Sony succeeded in the console buisness... Then maybe Microsoft no longer want to be in the console buisness.

Casual does not mean cheap, though, so cheap you don't want to spend a dime on a piece of hardware. Casual can simply mean, I don't want to spend $500 on a new console when I can spend $300 on one on instead.

Remember MS released the 360 Core model in 2005 for $299. For hardcore gamers, it was a ridiculous buy compared to the $399 system, but MS felt it was necessary to get below $300. They weren't really correct, but it was obviously something they were thinking about, and it did stick around for a while.

I'm not sure MS wants to be in the console business, actually. I think they see it as the best way to push Xbox as a service.
 
Last edited:

Rolling_Start

Banned
Jul 25, 2019
563
761
325
Only way I see it hoping to work, is if X is discontinued. They surely would not discontinue the S, since they said all games will run on it next gen.

They have most definitely not said that all games will run on the X1/S next gen!

An unspecified number of MS games will be cross gen, and third parties are free to do whatever they want with regards to X1.

I can see the SAD being EOL'd next year, and the X1 going the same way as soon as Anaconda is being produced in sufficient numbers to satisfy the market. X1S might live on a little while as a budget machine but as 7nm matures and GDDR6 comes down in price it'll face the chop eventually. There will be enough second hand units in circulation to satisfy budget conscious user who want to play second hand X1 disks, and these people are not a great revenue source anyway.
 
Oct 16, 2017
1,791
2,945
405
Casual does not mean cheap, though, so cheap you don't want to spend a dime on a piece of hardware. Casual can simply mean, I don't want to spend $500 on a new console when I can spend $300 on one on instead.

Remember MS released the 360 Core model in 2005 for $299. For hardcore gamers, it was a ridiculous buy compared to the $399 system, but MS felt it was necessary to get below $300. They weren't really correct, but it was obviously something they were thinking about, and it did stick around for a while.

I'm not sure MS wants to be in the console business, actually. I think they see it as the best way to push Xbox as a service.
But why would someone want to spend $300 when their Xbox 1S would still play all the new games? Your assumption is that there is something that forces people to upgrade, but that incentive isn't there when there is no next gen exclusives.
 

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
14,563
14,705
1,800
But why would someone want to spend $300 when their Xbox 1S would still play all the new games? Your assumption is that there is something that forces people to upgrade, but that incentive isn't there when there is no next gen exclusives.

The incentive is that it plays games "better" and is "faster", just like the new iPhone or Galaxy S is "faster" and takes "better" pictures.
 

Rolling_Start

Banned
Jul 25, 2019
563
761
325
But why would someone want to spend $300 when their Xbox 1S would still play all the new games? Your assumption is that there is something that forces people to upgrade, but that incentive isn't there when there is no next gen exclusives.

There will rapidly come a point where the 1S won't play all the new games, and it won't play anything remotely as well.

Plus there are still lots of people buying PS4 Peasant and X1Serf editions, and there will be a market for entry level consoles next year (and going forwards) too. MS appear to want by far the best device in this price range, and intend to offer an entry level console that will be able to play all next gen games. Something the X1S definitely won't be doing.
 

Dory16

Banned
Nov 15, 2013
1,047
1,506
700
Yeah Lockhart is worrying. Not because of the complaints of the developers. I actually think that complaining about the platform they have to code to with the reason that it's weaker than another one makes no sense when the architectures are so similar. Code with scalability in mind or shut up.
The reason why Lockhart is concerning is Stadia. If it's only going to render at 1080p, then faster cpu and ssd are no real advantages when I have the alternative to just stream the whole thing at 1080p60fps without any hardware or loading times. And I can do that with no subscription fee on stadia right now (ok I have to buy the game at a higher price than on amazon, go figure).
I think Ms has the casual gaming market covered with xcloud and game pass. People who dont want to spend much are not going to care for 60 fps or fast loading times. If they do, make sure they can have it on xcloud for less than 15$ a month with no hardware to buy.
Ms's next console should be all about massive amounts of local computing power and high end resolutions. It's the only advantage that consoles still have with the emergence of cloud streaming (which will only grow bigger) and the fact that they will never top the most expensive PCs in power.
Looking at it closely, I don't think that the advantages of Lockhart outweigh the cons and therefore I hope it's not real. Phil said it wasn't so we'll see.
 
Oct 16, 2017
1,791
2,945
405
The incentive is that it plays games "better" and is "faster", just like the new iPhone or Galaxy S is "faster" and takes "better" pictures.
That is not the incentive casuals accepts. This is why iphones intentionally make their battery-life worse after a set period of time so they could force people to buy new phones against their will. You are talking about why you would upgrade, you are not talking about anyone who would buy Lockhart.

I really am getting the same vibe from Lockhart as I get from Google Stadia; a bunch of people trying to defend it by coming up with theoretical reasons of why anyone would want it, but it being so far fetched and unrelated to reality that it is just unconvincing.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
That is not the incentive casuals accepts. This is why iphones intentionally make their battery-life worse after a set period of time so they could force people to buy new phones against their will. You are talking about why you would upgrade, you are not talking about anyone who would buy Lockhart.

I really am getting the same vibe from Lockhart as I get from Google Stadia; a bunch of people trying to defend it by coming up with theoretical reasons of why anyone would want it, but it being so far fetched and unrelated to reality that it is just unconvincing.

And not a single poster on here would buy the damned thing knowing the much more beastly Anaconda is out at the same time.
 

Lone Wolf

Member
Jan 8, 2014
2,225
3,779
685
The SAD and X will be discontinued. You want super cheap, buy an S. You want enhanced Xbox One games and next gen games at a good price, buy a Lockhart. You want the ultimate in everything, buy a Snek.
 
Last edited:

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
9,153
10,144
980
They started with "working on our next consoles", then switched to "console", and now apparently back to "consoles". Why so indecisive...

The gimped one will still be better overall than Pro/X, because of the CPU/SSD, but if it's not way cheaper than PS5/Anaconda then it's pointless and could turn out to be a costly mistake.

As for the GPUs in PS5/Anaconda being better than a 2080, doubt it, the consoles are only what, $499?
Hey - calling Lockheart the gimp is my shtick around here. Back off the trademarks! :messenger_grinning_squinting:

This way of thinking tells me MS doesn't really believe in Xbox Anaconda selling that well. So they are creating an Xbox Scarlett "family" of consoles instead.
Certainly strikes me as a logical and reasonable conclusion. And honestly, I wouldn't expect great success with a high end machine if I were them. I have to believe the people already salivating to buy a high end console next year will be taking into account their digital libraries, exclusives, friends' lists, etc. And with the ratio of existing console sales being so heavily skewered against their favor, we know those thoughts won't do them many favors. So going heavy at casuals makes sense for them even if the lesser system becomes baseline for devs.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,159
490
And not a single poster on here would buy the damned thing knowing the much more beastly Anaconda is out at the same time.
The people Lockhart is aiming for do not follow specs,gaming forums,DF etc... Lockhart is a low end next gen capable machine that can play the next gen GTA. It will havea navi gpu,zen 2 cpu,a ssd,hardware accelerated ray tracing etc...capabilities XB1X and certaintly XB1S will not have.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
The people Lockhart is aiming for do not follow specs,gaming forums,DF etc... Lockhart is a low end next gen capable machine that can play the next gen GTA. It will havea navi gpu,zen 2 cpu,a ssd,hardware accelerated ray tracing etc...capabilities XB1X and certaintly XB1S will not have.

Which goes right back to my point, why spend more when they currently have or can get the cheapest OneS option?

MS said they want all their games to run on them, and encourage 3rd party to as well. Now whether that happens, remains to be seen.

3rd parties will make or break it, this is true.
 
Apr 19, 2019
9,171
15,131
780
Away with the fairies
what a load of crap. the X is a an XB1

lockhart wouldn't even be a thing if the X wasn't an XB1. if it was "forward compatible" as you say then they'd have it stick around and just lower the price next year. but of course with Lockhart it looks like it will be replaced.

The X is an xbox one in name and CPU only. I know because I traded in my OG xbox one for an X, which I can see from where i'm sat.

Microsoft even admitted the X would be forward compatible.

Either way, MS' message is confusing at best and directionless at worst.
 

Dabaus

Member
Apr 23, 2018
2,021
4,504
475
There is only one way to build the userbase of a next gen machine; by having games the current gen can't run.

Microsoft had deliberately abandoned the tried and true way to sell next gen machines, which both Nintendo and Sony are banking on. So now Microsoft is left to re-invent the wheel.

"How do you sell the Scarlet without using next-gen exclusives"?

No one know the answer to that. And Microsoft is in that impossible position by their own actions.

Fantastic point. Both Sony and nintendo have had more success at this than Microsoft ever has. They know at some point you have to tear the bandaid off. If anaconda is 499 or more and not only not have actual exclusives to it, but also exclusive next gen games from third parties, its going to struggle. It doesnt matter how much power it has, its price and lack of a reason to own it will be a huge hurdle to over come. Like what kind of consumer that Just bought an xbox one x for 500 is going to drop another 500 or more to play even more up resed current gen games for the next few years?

My predicition is Lockheart will also have problems taking off initially as well regardless of price, be it 299 or lower, because for the first few years of the generation its competition will be ps4, switch, and even xbox and x to an extent. There will be cross gen games for a few years still, and in the mean time of those few years both anaconda and PS5 should theoretically see price cuts by the time next gen exclusive made games becomes the standard.

The two pronged approach seems like a jack of all trades, master of none approach. Lockheart i believe is made for a market that doesnt exist, and anaconda sounds like it may price itself out of a mainstream consumer price range. Of course I could be wrong. Alot of this depends on the price of the PS5. If Im sony im doing all that i can to get that 399 sweet spot, even if power concessions need to be made.
 
Last edited:

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,159
490
Hey - calling Lockheart the gimp is my shtick around here. Back off the trademarks! :messenger_grinning_squinting:


Certainly strikes me as a logical and reasonable conclusion. And honestly, I wouldn't expect great success with a high end machine if I were them. I have to believe the people already salivating to buy a high end console next year will be taking into account their digital libraries, exclusives, friends' lists, etc. And with the ratio of existing console sales being so heavily skewered against their favor, we know those thoughts won't do them many favors. So going heavy at casuals makes sense for them even if the lesser system becomes baseline for devs.
Best multiplats,services like gamepass etc...will play a huge role. A 500 or greater price obviosuly will hurt sells. But in the online age,gamers are more tuned into specs and performance than ever before.
Which goes right back to my point, why spend more when they currently have or can get the cheapest OneS option?

MS said they want all their games to run on them, and encourage 3rd party to as well. Now whether that happens, remains to be seen.

3rd parties will make or break it, this is true.
Because XB1X and XB1S(already struggles hugely with CURRENT gen games)will not be able to run or keep up with next gen games. They lack a navi based gpu,zen 2 cpu,ssd etc... You are only thinking short term(crossgen phase). Lockhart will be the low end next gen model capable of running full next gen games that will rquire a Zen 2 CPU,navi GPU,SSD etc... Its not complicated.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
49,382
105,491
1,430
Because XB1X and XB1S(already struggles hugely with CURRENT gen games)will not be able to run or keep up with next gen games. They lack a navi based gpu,zen 2 cpu,ssd etc... You are only thinking short term(crossgen phase). Lockhart will be the low end next gen model capable of running full next gen games that will rquire a Zen 2 CPU,navi GPU,SSD etc... Its not complicated.

Stupidity of people thinking that xbox one will be able to play nextgen games is astounding.

Tell that to Matt Booty and Phil Spencer. They literally said this.
 
Last edited:

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,159
490
Link? I need to see the context. Crossgen games is obviously what they are referring to. Obviously after the crossgen phase,next gen games will rquire next gen hardware that the XB1S/XB1X simply can't run on GCN,weak sauce cpu,no SSD, and outdated polaris tech.