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[Deleted member 471617]

No thanks to adding more buttons. Bad enough that most games have bad controller configurations that you can't actually edit and even if you can like AC Valhalla, doing so fucks up everything so in my mind, adding more buttons would add more problems because instead of spreading out button commands, they will all just try to squash even more shit into that configuration which isn't helping anyone.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Steam Deck has it standard.

Having buttons on the back is great, especially in games like DOOM Eternal where you're perpetually managing systems while aiming, running, jumping, and dashing. Having that on the back eliminates all the extra work your right-thumb usually does.

I have the Wolverine Ultimate and it adds 6 buttons. There's 2 memory slots in the controller for storing configs that you create in a Razer controller app. Then you can use them anywhere you bring the controller. I wish there were even more buttons and it came standard with something like reWASD, but that might not be as useful for console gamers. At very least there should be 8 buttons on the back to replace d-pad and face button thumb presses.

 

[Grumpy Toe Nail]

Couldnt agree more. Once you use back paddles you'll never want to go back.

 

[lucius]

I use them on my Elite 2 but only attach the 2 smaller paddles. I really don’t use them that much but I don’t play online that much that I need to be aiming and pressing another button at same time. I thought it be the best thing about the Elite 2 but I think just the weight and solid feel of the controller are the best things and I never liked loose sticks . I don’t think it will be standard because most people don’t care about it, but Nintendo and Sony should definitely give options for higher quality controllers than standards.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

These are like $200 cdn. No thanks.

Everyone gets a second controller (if they dont use a BC one). If these were $100 I'd get it. Seems worth trying out for an extra $30 over a standard one. But not worth $130 more.

 

[longdi]

i dont like paddles, prefer the sony touchpad sadly.

 

[Kamina]

I can’t get used to pedals, i prever the PS5’s controller functions

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

I imagine that a lot of people, me included don't want them to be standard. I'd rather let the people who want them pay extra for them rather than making everybody pay for them.

 

[fersnake]

L3 and R3 should die and be replaced by back buttons, no excuses.

lol no, just add new buttons xD

 

[PropellerEar]

I have the scrotum for DS4.

It's pretty ok.

I prefer DualSense new features over paddles.

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

Like others said, Dualsense is the new standard for controllers, even Phil Spencer complimented it. Personally I'm neutral on those backpedals.


The adaptive triggers and deeper vibration make gaming much more immersive.

 

[SupremeHoodie]

been wanting to buy an elite controller to try back pedals but i always see people posting about issues they have with those controllers

Imo the scuf controller backpaddles are more comfortable. But both my elite and scuf controllers only lasted a little over a year so you’re right to feel hesitant.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

L3 and R3 should die and be replaced by back buttons, no excuses.

This so much. Add to that stupid shit like clicking L3 to toggle run.

 

[GymWolf]

Microsoft save that for the elite controller and sony is more occupied putting gimmicks that break your controller faster.

 

[cormack12]

Some people turn off vibration.

If something is new, people are usually slow to adopt. Here you are asking for a change while at the same time dismissing the other change that was introduced – to dimiss it so casually right now is short-sighted IMO.

Haptics aren't new though. Being on the trigger itself is the gimmick, the steam controller had haptics as well. You didn't see that spread beyond that one proprietary controller or into other peripherals. No one started adding haptic feedback to WASD so you could feel footsteps, or to mouse buttons to feel effects. Plus, the feature is on two triggers - there are four on a standard controller and the most common control options often swap them around, making them superfluous in the first place.

I've tried, believe me. I've tried Godfall, Control, Demon's Souls and it offers nothing to the control scheme or function. I get why they are there for immersion in those story based, cinematic games but ultimately haptic feedback and adaptive triggers add barriers to my controller. I just don't understand why paddles (or the equivalent) haven't become standard when they reduce barriers and offer so many more options to most types of games. And they don't have to be paddles, as the Deck has shown, they can be nested triggers in the handles. They can duplicate D-Pad buttons, stick presses wihtout needing to move your thumb into awkward positions etc.

If something as functional as back paddles can't become standard, I fail to see how expensive haptic feedback will to be honest.

 

[22•22]

I'm still on the fence buying that dualshock4 back attachment.. Could be nice, for sure with FPS games.. But I really want better thumbsticks..

 

[MrFunSocks]

Agreed, they're amazing.

For people that "don't understand the point" of paddles, you can re-map any existing button to them. They aren't like R4 and R5, they're not new buttons. By default they map to the 4 face buttons.

What's the point of this? Well you know how when you're playing TLOU2 and you are running around and aiming, and now you want to dodge or do something that is mapped to the X button, which requires you to take your finger off the right stick? Surprise, now you don't have to! Say you're playing COD and you want to move, turn the camera, and jump at the same time? Now you can do that, whereas you can't with a normal controller.

In competitive twin stick games it legitimately gives you an advantage. In games like titanfall and halo and gears those advantages are huge.

 

[Kev Kev]

Because them shits are too expensive. I haven’t even had an opportunity to try them out yet. I’m sure a lot of other people are in the same boat.

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

So this thread probably answers why back buttons haven't become standard, people ate generally not bothered about having them and there are alternative options out there for what seems to be a minority of people who do want them.

 

[bitbydeath]

You’re better off standardising the touch pad. Back buttons are awful for people with large hands.

 

[rodrigolfp]

People seems to like claw grip, L3, R3, weapon wheels, aim assist/auto aim, slow analog aiming...

 

[Topher]

Haptics aren't new though. Being on the trigger itself is the gimmick, the steam controller had haptics as well. You didn't see that spread beyond that one proprietary controller or into other peripherals. No one started adding haptic feedback to WASD so you could feel footsteps, or to mouse buttons to feel effects. Plus, the feature is on two triggers - there are four on a standard controller and the most common control options often swap them around, making them superfluous in the first place.

I've tried, believe me. I've tried Godfall, Control, Demon's Souls and it offers nothing to the control scheme or function. I get why they are there for immersion in those story based, cinematic games but ultimately haptic feedback and adaptive triggers add barriers to my controller. I just don't understand why paddles (or the equivalent) haven't become standard when they reduce barriers and offer so many more options to most types of games. And they don't have to be paddles, as the Deck has shown, they can be nested triggers in the handles. They can duplicate D-Pad buttons, stick presses wihtout needing to move your thumb into awkward positions etc.

If something as functional as back paddles can't become standard, I fail to see how expensive haptic feedback will to be honest.

Personally, I love the changes that make DualSense special. In games that truly utilize the haptics, I think it is pretty awesome. Probably the only thing good about Marvel's Avengers, frankly.

Having said that, if I had to choose, I'd choose back peddles. They are why my Elite Series 2 is my favorite controller.

 

[hangdang69]

I hate not having them on PS5 anymore. Thought for sure they'd be included after Sony made the PS4 b attachment so late on it's lifecycle.

 

[Quasicat]

I have an Elite 2 but I'm too uncoordinated to use the paddles

Same…my problem is that I’m so used to holding my controller a certain way that my ring and middle fingers accidentally hit those paddles. I just pull them off and put them back in the case. I’m glad that they are not standard.

 

[hangdang69]

I hate not having them on PS5. Thought for sure they'd be included after Sony made the PS4 b attachment so late in it's lifecycle.

 

[sainraja]

Haptics aren't new though. Being on the trigger itself is the gimmick, the steam controller had haptics as well. You didn't see that spread beyond that one proprietary controller or into other peripherals. No one started adding haptic feedback to WASD so you could feel footsteps, or to mouse buttons to feel effects. Plus, the feature is on two triggers - there are four on a standard controller and the most common control options often swap them around, making them superfluous in the first place.

I've tried, believe me. I've tried Godfall, Control, Demon's Souls and it offers nothing to the control scheme or function. I get why they are there for immersion in those story based, cinematic games but ultimately haptic feedback and adaptive triggers add barriers to my controller. I just don't understand why paddles (or the equivalent) haven't become standard when they reduce barriers and offer so many more options to most types of games. And they don't have to be paddles, as the Deck has shown, they can be nested triggers in the handles. They can duplicate D-Pad buttons, stick presses wihtout needing to move your thumb into awkward positions etc.

If something as functional as back paddles can't become standard, I fail to see how expensive haptic feedback will to be honest.

Somethings are just slow to get adopted and paddles could also be one of those things. Haptics, vibration etc are mostly for immersion anyway and there are those who just turn off vibration, like you do with haptics. And when I said new, I didn't mean completely new, but it is new on the console side of things. When Sony created the Dualshock for the PS1 with a second stick, in most games, the second stick wasn't utilized – it wasn't until developers found a good use for it that it got adopted or became the standard.

Paddles duplicate the actions from the front facing buttons right now but if they become the standard (I don't mean just on one single device) then you can bet developers will start assigning other actions to them or at-least, that is a real possibility and they could lose the value you give them right now or perhaps it might find better use. I don't see a big value in them right now but I guess that's a similar position as you, when looking at haptics.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Probably not standard because there are a number of us who fucking hate them. I disable them on my PC gamepad. I am not coordinated enough to use them, and more often than not, they are getting clicked inadvertently during hectic situations. Fuck that noise.

If they were standard, games would start using them as essential controls, which would be the beginning of the end of gaming for me. If you can't design comprehensive controls with the 10 buttons currently on gamepads, then you shouldn't be making games. If you like paddles, buy an add-on. Standardizing them would be the quickest way to revert me back to a Nintendo gamer.

 

[GuinGuin]

I bought the DS4 back paddle attachment. Hated it. Maybe it's useful for MP games but I don't play those. The adaptive triggers, haptics and gyro aiming should be standard features of every controller though.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

You’re better off standardising the touch pad. Back buttons are awful for people with large hands.

Eh, the touch pad doesn't work well for my hands. I have to stretch my hand to get to the opposite side of the pad, pretty much letting go of the controller. Imo, they should just make controllers that better fit varying hand sizes.

 

[Miles708]

My only experience of having one of these so far was when sony released that official attachment for the PS4 dualshock, i pretty much use it all the time when i play as i hate the bullshit of clicking in stick for L3&R3 it's made playing a lot more friendly to my hands as some games get you clicking those damn sticks all the time and it's havoc for my thumbs. It's probably extended the lifespan of my DS4 quite a bit seeing as evidence nowadays it pointing to that been the cause of stick drift

Agree completely, the fact that you can't use those on ps5 is baffling to say the least.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It's been 5 years since DualSense been released? How time passes fast...

 

[small_law]

I never had a back paddle go bad on a controller (Scuf or MS Elite), but from a warranty standpoint, it's another thing to go wrong mechanically. More RMA's, more customer service interactions, etc. It's easy to build that into the premium you'd pay for a "pro" controller, but for standard controllers, it'd be nuts without a price increase.

 

[Zannegan]

It's part of why I'm so excited for the Steam Deck. Not only does it have grip buttons, but also a gyro and touchpads.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

L3 and R3 should die and be replaced by back buttons, no excuses.

Or keep them because they are useful and add the paddles

 

[driqe]

IIRC its because corsair owns the patent for back paddles and companies dont want to pay to implement it in their controllers

 

[Yamisan]

Dual Sense is a major update to controllers... That was a fast fucking 5 years.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

i dont like paddles, prefer the sony touchpad sadly.

The dual shock/sense is great for PC because of this.

 

[CrustyBritches]

If they were standard, games would start using them as essential controls, which would be the beginning of the end of gaming for me. If you can't design comprehensive controls with the 10 buttons currently on gamepads, then you shouldn't be making games.

Game design has exceeded the button capacity of console controllers for awhile now. The solution for console games in most cases is to completely pause the game while the player uses the weapon/selection wheel. This goes back as far Mass Effect 1 from my memory. Games like DOOM Eternal really make a mockery of standard controllers.

 

[cireza]

Meh. Rather than putting more buttons on my controllers, developers should try to make games that use less buttons at once.

 

[22•22]

Or keep them because they are useful and add the paddles

Exactly. The input register is mechanically there already. It's more about the way they're commonly are put to use that gathers these comments seeing as it's (at least in my experience) quite taxing on the thumb joints. Especially *press L3 to run* in input taxing games like CoD.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

So many accidental Souls jumps....

Back in the cod black ops days, i used to accidentally knife mid gun fight and die. So i switched the L3 to crouch, that actually ended up saving me a few times

 

[GuinGuin]

Game design has exceeded the button capacity of console controllers for awhile now. The solution for console games in most cases is to completely pause the game while the player uses the weapon/selection wheel. This goes back as far Mass Effect 1 from my memory. Games like DOOM Eternal really make a mockery of standard controllers.

Or they could just make games that aren't stupid complex. Just went back to Shadow of the Colossus. You have two weapons and you start the game with both. There is one attack button and yet it has some of the best gameplay ever.

 

[Excess]

Been buying Scuf controllers, and now Xbox Elite controllers, since their inception back in the Black Ops 2 days.

The paddle patent is owned by Scuf, and Microsoft actually pays a licensing fee to Scuf to use it. This would explain the expense.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

Back in the cod black ops days, i used to accidentally knife mid gun fight and die. So i switched the L3 to crouch, that actually ended up saving me a few times

I prefer tactical too. The sticks make the character react so having them crouch makes more sense than B/circle

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

L3 and R3 should die and be replaced by back buttons, no excuses.

No thanks.

But add L4 and R4, sure.

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

Haptics aren't new though. Being on the trigger itself is the gimmick, the steam controller had haptics as well.

Haptic merely means using your sense of touch, it's such a broad description and there has been an equally broad range of haptic feedback types over the years and just like anything else under such a broad descriptor there is a vast range of quality that is available from the different options.
As with anything like haptic feedback and back paddles, both are equally as easy to dismiss by describing them as a gimmick and it comes down to what people feel they get out of one or the other. Looking at this thread, which I don't believe truly represents the larger world, it seems that there are incredibly mixed feelings on both features/options/gimmicks. It's good that there are different options available for people and that different people see value in both of those options.
This optional attachment for the DS4 that people keep mentioning on here seems like an ideal option for people as the people who feel they benefit from having them can add one if they want to and it seems to be a relatively low cost option, hopefully add-ons like this will be made available for other controllers so other people can buy them if they want them.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Somethings are just slow to get adopted and paddles could also be one of those things. Haptics, vibration etc are mostly for immersion anyway and there are those who just turn off vibration, like you do with haptics. And when I said new, I didn't mean completely new, but it is new on the console side of things. When Sony created the Dualshock for the PS1 with a second stick, in most games, the second stick wasn't utilized – it wasn't until developers found a good use for it that it got adopted or became the standard.

Paddles duplicate the actions from the front facing buttons right now but if they become the standard (I don't mean just on one single device) then you can bet developers will start assigning other actions to them or at-least, that is a real possibility and they could lose the value you give them right now or perhaps it might find better use. I don't see a big value in them right now but I guess that's a similar position as you, when looking at haptics.

Developers can’t just give them new actions if they’re not new buttons recognised by the OS, which they wouldn’t be. They are and would just be remappable buttons.

 

[Shmunter]

Game design has exceeded the button capacity of console controllers for awhile now. The solution for console games in most cases is to completely pause the game while the player uses the weapon/selection wheel. This goes back as far Mass Effect 1 from my memory, and DOOM Eternal really makes a mockery of standard controllers.

Devs need to embrace modifiers. Hold down a button to essentially double the functions of the other buttons. Like a Shift key on a keyboard

 

[bentanchorbolt]

The real big controller change is 1 year old, not five. It's haptics on Dualsense PS5 controller. That's the real revolution, not back buttons.

And it will probably become standard since Phil Spencer already said they'd like to copy it for Xbox, as they should.

It's hard to play anything without haptics after trying them.

Not really. It's a nice feature but it doesn't actively improve your ability to control your character, doesn't offer any tactical benefits, etc.

 

[wOs]

Because they take time to get used to.