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Is the "fighting game revival" dead in its tracks going into next gen (PS5/Scorpio/Switch)?

Phase

Member
Every fighting game player is praying for player engagement. You have to have other people to play against. A lot of players drop off after a few months and you have no one to play.
Sounds like a problem with the quality of their product.
 
Sounds like a problem with the quality of their product.
Not really. Soul Calibur VI is the best one since 2. It has an extremely long single player mode too.

I think fighting games are just going to have to be creative to keep people's attention with so many games out. Excessive dlc sucks. But some DLC can extend a game in a positive way. Best case scenario is splatoon 2 dlc.
 
Tira SCVI it's like Eliza Tekken 7 situation, i don't want talking about ArcSystemWorks and KoeiTecmo DLC marketing (worse than corruption). Who the hell want to buy overpriced season pass and only including 1 character? Smash is fun and massive roster, The King of Fighters XIV is good and have a massive roster too but oh god that's graphic and UI looks really outdated.

Out of topic (because i saw your avatar):
Who is the character you hate the most in Tekken 7? And hope he/she doesn't reappear in tekken franchise anymore
Actually Eliza was a pre-order bonus for digital/first print bonus for physical (all first print copies of physical Tekken 7 include a voucher for her) so it was actually possible to get her for free, Tira however is only season pass or stand alone DLC, impossible to get for free.

My least favorite Tekken character, I don't know, probably Xiaoyu and her panda. Although only time I would actively say I want a character removed is when a character is unpopular, no one uses them, yet they keep being added in limited rosters over actually popular characters.
 

PeacefulWorldGuy

Neo Member
Actually Eliza was a pre-order bonus for digital/first print bonus for physical (all first print copies of physical Tekken 7 include a voucher for her) so it was actually possible to get her for free, Tira however is only season pass or stand alone DLC, impossible to get for free.

My least favorite Tekken character, I don't know, probably Xiaoyu and her panda. Although only time I would actively say I want a character removed is when a character is unpopular, no one uses them, yet they keep being added in limited rosters over actually popular characters.

Oh ok then.

Out of Topic:
Looks like you really hate Xiaoyu over all characters, why do you hate her? Are you satisified after she got deleted from Tekken franchise? Because my wife actually love her and still wondering her connection with Jin, if Xiaoyu is really unpopular Harada already delete her long time ago.
 
Oh ok then.

Out of Topic:
Looks like you really hate Xiaoyu over all characters, why do you hate her? Are you satisified after she got deleted from Tekken franchise? Because my wife actually love her and still wondering her connection with Jin, if Xiaoyu is really unpopular Harada already delete her long time ago.
I was saying Xiaoyu is probably my least favorite, second statement is unrelated......well maybe it fits for Panda. Panda being in Tekken Card Tournament over Asuka on launch day pissed people off a whole lot.
 
It's all going to come down to how good the game is to the community(regular gamers and the FGC), online play, and ongoing support after release.

If a fighting game isn't good or isn't appealing, nobody will play it. If the online play sucks, nobody is going to play a game you need to compete against someone else at to have fun when you can't even have a good experience. If the game doesn't evolve over time with extras and additional features, a majority of the players are not going to stick with it.
 

vkbest

Member
I see your point, but that’s still cheaper than buying all the DLC in fighting games now. Look at the total price of all the DLC in SF5 or DOA5 to name a few and tell me that it’s cheaper than buying a new full priced installment each year. Not saying it’s necessarily a better model, but I feel DLC is probably the worst thing to happen to modern fighting games because it’s generally handled poorly.

SNES Street Fighter 2 x 4 games = 78€ (At least on Spain SNES games were that expensive) x 4 = 312€ (16 characters)

SF V = 60€
Season pass 30€ x 3 = 90 €
6x 4 characters = 24€
60+90+24= 174€
(38 characters)


No, you are very wrong. You have +2x characters for half price

Besides you can get characters for free on this game

Current games have more characters at launch.
 
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KiteGr

Member
IMO Street Fighter 4 was responsible for restarting the fighting game mania...
..and Street Fighter 5 was responsible for killing it again...

SF4 re-introduced the series in such a unique and clever way.
  • Despite being 3D it played like a 2D game, and it was very faithful to the old games!
  • The 3D graphics where stylized and cartoony like the old ones. The Character's faces where super expressive, and thanks to the new ability to move the camera, each move that transitioned from 2D was awesome! Especially the finishing moves!
  • Not including bosses, 14 of it's characters came from SF2, just 4 came from SFzero/Alpha, and another 4 where new. The Nostalgia was strong with this one!
  • It didn't promise any DLC. Each edition was supposed to be final.... until it wasn't...
SF5 make prevalent all the current problems a fighting game could have!
  • It was revealed and Demoed with graphical Glitches.
  • While at first it appeared to up the sexiness, it got censored before, during and after it's release, to please the puritan EVO gods! (magic word to kill hype)
  • The graphical jump wasn't as big!
  • People where suspicious of the million editions the series has released in each installment.
  • It got released at full price with little to no content.... at all!
  • It was released with the promise of TONS of post game DLC.
  • It introduced a freemium paying model for the said DLC, that only the hardcore and pro-players would make use of.
  • There was a good game hidden deep underneath!....
SF5 broke my heart personally in various ways.
  • I like and prefer to play Fighting games casually, keeping my skill low on purpose in order to compete with my couch friends, but I can't unlock 65% of the characters without paying or grinding for months.
  • I prefer to play Fighting games on Consoles, but I can't "Decensor" the game unless I play it on PC.
  • Even if I buy the disk, 80% of the game is Digital Only patches and DLC, as the supposed retail"Arcade Edition" is the exact old unsold broken vanila edition with a bunch of download vouchers thrown in.
I paid 60€ on it and I have no plans on paying a cent more until they release something to make up for what I gave. I want a Disked, Complete uncensored edition. But at this point I don't expect this to happen in this reality.
 
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Labolas

Member
IMO Street Fighter 4 was responsible for restarting the fighting game mania...
..and Street Fighter 5 was responsible for killing it again...

SF4 re-introduced the series in such a unique and clever way.
  • Despite being 3D it played like a 2D game, and it was very faithful to the old games!
  • The 3D graphics where stylized and cartoony like the old ones. The Character's faces where super expressive, and thanks to the new ability to move the camera, each move that transitioned from 2D was awesome! Especially the finishing moves!
  • Not including bosses, 14 of it's characters came from SF2, just 4 came from SFzero/Alpha, and another 4 where new. The Nostalgia was strong with this one!
  • It didn't promise any DLC. Each edition was supposed to be final.... until it wasn't...
SF5 make prevalent all the current problems a fighting game could have!
  • It was revealed and Demoed with graphical Glitches.
  • While at first it appeared to up the sexiness, it got censored before, during and after it's release, to please the puritan EVO gods! (magic word to kill hype)
  • The graphical jump wasn't as big!
  • People where suspicious of the million editions the series has released in each installment.
  • It got released at full price with little to no content.... at all!
  • It was released with the promise of TONS of post game DLC.
  • It introduced a freemium paying model for the said DLC, that only the hardcore and pro-players would make use of.
  • There was a good game hidden deep underneath!....
SF5 broke my heart personally in various ways.
  • I like and prefer to play Fighting games casually, keeping my skill low on purpose in order to compete with my couch friends, but I can't unlock 65% of the characters without paying or grinding for months.
  • I prefer to play Fighting games on Consoles, but I can't "Decensor" the game unless I play it on PC.
  • Even if I buy the disk, 80% of the game is Digital Only patches and DLC, as the supposed retail"Arcade Edition" is the exact old unsold broken vanila edition with a bunch of download vouchers thrown in.
I paid 60€ on it and I have no plans on paying a cent more until they release something to make up for what I gave. I want a Disked, Complete uncensored edition. But at this point I don't expect this to happen in this reality.

Yeah censoring my mains really hurt the game for me.
 

cireza

Member
The genre did not revive really, it had a small boost recently with SF4 that helped, but if you look at it, it did not generate new games, mainly sequels of well known series. And often, budget/low risk sequels. This is why it is difficult for the genre to live again : it is mainly represented by sequels targeting the same hardcore audience as before.

Too many games try to cater to this hardcore audience that has to invest their entire life in playing, getting better and buying stuff.

Where are the more casual, fun games ? I had a blast with ARMS, I thought "finally some developer out there that tries to push a bit the boundaries and provides something new".

Who wants to buy another budget sequel like Tekken, Soul Calibur, Marvel vs Capcom or Dead or Alive ? We were playing the exact same games 20 years ago. Things need to be shook up a bit. I perfectly understand why Sega did not make Virtua Fighter 6. If it is to iterate on the same formula again, VF5 is already perfect.
 

KiteGr

Member
The genre did not revive really, it had a small boost recently with SF4 that helped, but if you look at it, it did not generate new games, mainly sequels of well known series. And often, budget/low risk sequels. This is why it is difficult for the genre to live again : it is mainly represented by sequels targeting the same hardcore audience as before.

Too many games try to cater to this hardcore audience that has to invest their entire life in playing, getting better and buying stuff.

Where are the more casual, fun games ? I had a blast with ARMS, I thought "finally some developer out there that tries to push a bit the boundaries and provides something new".

Who wants to buy another budget sequel like Tekken, Soul Calibur, Marvel vs Capcom or Dead or Alive ? We were playing the exact same games 20 years ago. Things need to be shook up a bit. I perfectly understand why Sega did not make Virtua Fighter 6. If it is to iterate on the same formula again, VF5 is already perfect.
That was exactly the problem with SF5.
Despite the warning signs of censorship, quality and content, I DID buy the game when it came out!... And it was a painful experience!
I thought, like many others, that despite being built as a DLC starter pack, I would at least enjoy an few online matches enough to get me the new characters that come out. After finishing the bare bones story, I jumped online with my main (the game REALLY wants you to chose a main, as you can chose a character upon matchmaking) and promptly got my ass handed to me in nearly every match.
The game asked for 100.000 "fight money" to give a new character.
The ridiculously easy and 1 hour short story mode, with the temporary available DLC characters, gave 180.000 fm, enough to buy a new character when the temporary shuted down system opens, and just 20.000 fm short of getting a second (like any sleazy Freemium would). After 4 hours of online loosing I've had gathered 400 fm. The online mode simply had no casual games playing. There was no other mode that would give FM (or just play in general besides survival), and casual gamers ether simply didn't buy the game, or had long given up on playing online.
The whole experience above meant that the pro players, the reviewers and the youtubers won't find any issue with it, but us casual gamers will ether have to train them selfs to the game to become better, or pay the real money.

I don't want to train!
I don't want to be among those guys that study frames in animations, and discussing whether Ryu's medium jab matches well with his light backward kick!
I just want to play with friends on a similar skill level!
Why is it so hard?!
 
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petran79

Banned
That was exactly the problem with SF5.
Despite the warning signs of censorship, quality and content, I DID buy the game when it came out!... And it was a painful experience!
I thought, like many others, that despite being built as a DLC starter pack, I would at least enjoy an few online matches enough to get me the new characters that come out. After finishing the bare bones story, I jumped online with my main (the game REALLY wants you to chose a main, as you can chose a character upon matchmaking) and promptly got my ass handed to me in nearly every match.
The game asked for 100.000 "fight money" to give a new character.
The ridiculously easy and 1 hour short story mode, with the temporary available DLC characters, gave 180.000 fm, enough to buy a new character when the temporary shuted down system opens, and just 20.000 fm short of getting a second (like any sleazy Freemium would). After 4 hours of online loosing I've had gathered 400 fm. The online mode simply had no casual games playing. There was no other mode that would give FM (or just play in general besides survival), and casual gamers ether simply didn't buy the game, or had long given up on playing online.
The whole experience above meant that the pro players, the reviewers and the youtubers won't find any issue with it, but us casual gamers will ether have to train them selfs to the game to become better, or pay the real money.

I don't want to train!
I don't want to be among those guys that study frames in animations, and discussing whether Ryu's medium jab matches well with his light backward kick!
I just want to play with friends on a similar skill level!
Why is it so hard?!

And this only if you are connected online. Tried playing character story mode offline and fight money was wasted and could not be registered once you were online.
 

Blade2.0

Member
All fighting games need to look at games with gold and ps+ and game pass/ ps now a lot more aggressively. They do wonders for dead communities and can breathe new life into a game or hell even jumpstart their game (rocket league). But fighting games seem stuck in the old realm of you just pay for this game to get it. Which if it isn't a popular game out of the gate can kill any momentum it might have had.

correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any fighting game (besides maybe killer instinct?) That's on the game pass or has been a ps plus type game for this whole generation.
 
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cireza

Member
All fighting games need to look at games with gold and ps+ and game pass/ ps now a lot more aggressively. They do wonders for dead communities and can breathe new life into a game or hell even jumpstart their game (rocket league). But fighting games seem stuck in the old realm of you just pay for this game to get it. Which if it isn't a popular game out of the gate can kill any momentum it might have had.

correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any fighting game (besides maybe killer instinct?) That's on the game pass or has been a ps plus type game for this whole generation.
Dead or Alive 5 and 6 both have free versions with free characters, and the way the games are made is well done, since everything can be bought separately. This is a good thing and offers more interest for a wider variety of players. You allow people willing to spend only 10 or 20 dollars to do it, which is a good thing. And they are pretty great games to play offline, with a great and adjustable AI. Definitely the best games for casuals and offline play in my opinion.

Dragon Ball FighterZ for example is one of the worst for offline play and casual. The AI is cheap as fuck, the single player modes have damage scaling without sense to compensate for the stupid AI etc... Loadings are extremely long. Not a friendly game at all for this kind of experience.
 
SNES Street Fighter 2 x 4 games = 78€ (At least on Spain SNES games were that expensive) x 4 = 312€ (16 characters)

SF V = 60€
Season pass 30€ x 3 = 90 €
6x 4 characters = 24€
60+90+24= 174€
(38 characters)


No, you are very wrong. You have +2x characters for half price

Besides you can get characters for free on this game

Current games have more characters at launch.
If you just get characters, then it’s not so bad. I was including all of the stages, cosmetics, characters and costumes DLC for all seasons and themes which is definitely more expensive.

Also, I thought there were only 3 Street Fighter games on the SNES? World Warrior, Champion Edition and Super SSF2 unless you mean Alpha or something I didn’t know about.

Lastly, unsurprisingly they provide the player with half the fight money now since the arcade edition update making earning characters and content much grindier now. To me, fight money is almost irrelevant now compared to before. I will give SF5 credit though. At least they do sometimes put their DLC on sale unlike another special fighting game.
 
SNES Street Fighter 2 x 4 games = 78€ (At least on Spain SNES games were that expensive) x 4 = 312€ (16 characters)

SF V = 60€
Season pass 30€ x 3 = 90 €
6x 4 characters = 24€
60+90+24= 174€
(38 characters)


No, you are very wrong. You have +2x characters for half price

Besides you can get characters for free on this game

Current games have more characters at launch.

If you just get characters, then it’s not so bad. I was including all of the stages, cosmetics, characters and costumes DLC for all seasons and themes which is definitely more expensive.

Also, I thought there were only 3 Street Fighter games on the SNES? World Warrior, Champion Edition and Super SSF2 unless you mean Alpha or something I didn’t know about.

Lastly, unsurprisingly they provide the player with half the fight money now since the arcade edition update making earning characters and content much grindier now. To me, fight money is almost irrelevant now compared to before. I will give SF5 credit though. At least they do sometimes put their DLC on sale unlike another special fighting game.
 

Dane

Member
The FGC and Evo are the main reasons games launch incomplete/rushed.

Dead or Alive 6 is the proof of that, while its okay that guest chracters from non KT series doesn't appear in the base game, the fact that they left out previous characters such as Leon, Rachel, Phase 4 and Nyotengu (those two actually as a pre order DLC) is fucking bad. Not to mention its gutted story mode.

KT tried to cater to EVO people and was made tricks to hide its sexy nature, they probably realized that the event is a clique that only games from famous FG developers get in and made that scene at EVO Japan. Only games from famous FG developers manage to stand in for years, even if they had a poor reception by the developer standards, the rest only gets in for one time. Also, the BS hipocrisy that DOA isn't taken serious because of its sexualization, yet Soul Calibur is pretty much that and Tekken has been growing on that game after game.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Everyone wants their fighting game to make it big and for others to play it. Like an MMO, the sunk cost is much higher than an FPS or an RPG which you beat once and move on to the new one 6 months later.

Maybe we are returning to the point where the market can only support so many fighting games at a given time. This is why the genre crashed in the late 90s / early 00s. At a certain point, the cost of producing them is higher than the expected profit. Same thing happened to shmups.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Everyone wants their fighting game to make it big and for others to play it. Like an MMO, the sunk cost is much higher than an FPS or an RPG which you beat once and move on to the new one 6 months later.

Maybe we are returning to the point where the market can only support so many fighting games at a given time. This is why the genre crashed in the late 90s / early 00s. At a certain point, the cost of producing them is higher than the expected profit. Same thing happened to shmups.
That and bad decisions. Look at the GBF game for example. Multiple delays for a weird story mode and only 12 characters. Not to mention half of them are literal who characters/mostly humans despite being from a series that has a diverse cast. That shit is gonna bomb so hard which is a shame because I was looking forward to playing it.
 

IKSTUGA

Member
Haven't really found a new home in the fighting game world after SFIV died off. SFV I didn't enjoy at all and these team fighting games (marvel, dbz) are just way too ADD for me. Out of the recent fighting games, I've probably had the most amount of fun with T7.

One of my biggest hopes for next-gen is that Street Fighter makes a proper comeback. Just make it fun again. Super Turbo, 3s and SFIV: AE were all fun and unique in their own ways. Ultras with 30 bazillion iframes can fuck off, though.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Marvel vs Capcom went from "When's MAHVEL?" to being DOA with its latest installment. MvC2 and Origins got taken off the digital stores. Its a mess if you ask me. Its one giant DLC package. I was excited for SFV until I realized that even after all my purchases, I still did not have the entire roster. It was depressing as I owned SFIV and each one of its installments. Even had SFIV on PS4. I don't like it.

I have the deluxe MKXI bundle too and I know one day It'll be the bare minimum because Season pack 2 will be announced. I got both packs with MKXL from day 1. It feels like a loss in the long run. Marvel is non-existent because no one really liked Infinite. SFV feels like you'll never own the entire game. I had Tekken 7, but I didn't bother with DLC. I use to love Tekken back with TTT and T3, even leading to T4-T6. I was always on board. The DLC for Tekken 7 felt like a cash grab. Releasing characters that could have just been in the base game if you ask me or characters that really aren't that exciting. I haven't exactly been thrilled with fighting games in the last couple years. I sold DOA6 and Tekken 7. It just wasn't as exciting as it use to be. I stopped watching EVO after SFV came out. It feels like it has gone back to where it was before it became popular. The next fighting game is only popular until it hits evo. KOF and Samurai Showdown.. they're only popular for a short period of time.

I'm not super impressed by any of it. Soul Calibur 6 is another Soul Calibur. Its only good for a couple months and then no one talks about it. Soul Calibur has been that way for years and years. It never really stays up at the top, same with DOA. Its only good because people are talking about it during launch. After a couple months of MKXI, it feels like it was a huge cash grab. When are these games going to fill in the place of Third Strike or Marvel vs. Capcom 2? They're basically DLC packages until the next base game gets released. None of them get a "classic" status because the game will be out the door once they decide to make a new one.
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Street Fighter V was a letdown because was half baked, but I guess that this is going to change. I mean, Capcom changed, so there's hope
 
What I would like to see is more fresh blood step up and make a new fighting franchise with a decent to substantial budget behind it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge fan of Tekken, DOA, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Blazblue, etc but I think the genre could use a few more major franchises.

I feel that fighting games are irrefutably the hardest types of games to properly create, but having the same 3 or 4 companies making the same fighters over and over could be contributing to some casuals lack of interest as well. I’m sure there is some talent out there who can do something interesting.

I feel that if fighting games were still popular or big money makers, that more companies would at least attempt development in the genre.
 
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vkbest

Member
If you just get characters, then it’s not so bad. I was including all of the stages, cosmetics, characters and costumes DLC for all seasons and themes which is definitely more expensive.

Also, I thought there were only 3 Street Fighter games on the SNES? World Warrior, Champion Edition and Super SSF2 unless you mean Alpha or something I didn’t know about.

Lastly, unsurprisingly they provide the player with half the fight money now since the arcade edition update making earning characters and content much grindier now. To me, fight money is almost irrelevant now compared to before. I will give SF5 credit though. At least they do sometimes put their DLC on sale unlike another special fighting game.

Street Fighter 2
Street Fighter 2 turbo
Súper Street Fighter 2
Súper Street Fighter 2 turbo (not sure if this was released on SNES)
 
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Panaphonics

Banned
I agree with you OP, PS5 and Scorpio are both nextgen consoles, whereas Scarlett will be - techwise - a generation ahead of PS5 and Scorpio.
 
Street Fighter 2
Street Fighter 2 turbo
Súper Street Fighter 2
Súper Street Fighter 2 turbo (not sure if this was released on SNES)

Actually, SSF2:Turbo to my knowledge wasn't released on the SNES unless there was some special international version released that I never saw before. I think the 3DO had the first release of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo.
 

petran79

Banned
All fighting games need to look at games with gold and ps+ and game pass/ ps now a lot more aggressively. They do wonders for dead communities and can breathe new life into a game or hell even jumpstart their game (rocket league). But fighting games seem stuck in the old realm of you just pay for this game to get it. Which if it isn't a popular game out of the gate can kill any momentum it might have had.

correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any fighting game (besides maybe killer instinct?) That's on the game pass or has been a ps plus type game for this whole generation.

console ports of old games in previous gen consoles like Kof98, Garou, Jojo (delisted), mvc1 (delisted), 3s, vampire savior etc had a more active scene and better online on free online pc clients like ggpo while console lobbies were empty. Even on PS3 that had free online
 

dirthead

Banned
FIghting games are never going to get big again until they get back to basics. There are universal truths about fighting games:

* The focus should be fun. You can't balance them, so you shouldn't even worry about it. So many fighting games have been RUINED in the name of balance. The only thing that's important is whether they're fun to play or not. It's impossible to have characters that are different without characters having some form of advantage over others. There's a reason that both players in a chess match get the same pieces.

* Stop catering to e-sports cocksuckers. This is less than 1% of the planet. NO ONE CARES. Street Fighter 2 was a game your cousin who only plays video games casually could enjoy. They should have that kind of appeal. FUCK E-SPORTS. It's poison. It's a siren song. Start making games for humans again.

* They've become way too complicated. They require too much memorization, too many twitchy inputs, and they are generally too fast with too much visual noise cluttering the fuck out of the screen. Simple, straightforward, READABLE visuals is what they should be going for. Look at how fucking readable games like Street Fighter 2 and Samurai Shodown 2 are. There's virtually NO visual noise. The simplicity of Street Fighter 2 is what made it so compelling. Fuck combos you have to memorize and stupid super moves that are basically mini cutscenes breaking up the flow of combat.

* You can't fucking skimp out on the presentation. Look at Street Fighter V and Soul Calibur 6. They look like BUDGET games. 1 on 1 fighting games are, computationally, one of the most simplistic game genres. You can throw 99% of the hardware at the visuals. They should look AMAZING in 2019. They used to literally be showcase games. Street Fighter 2 was basically the best looking arcade game when it came out. Virtua Fighter 2 and 3 set the benchmark for video game graphics. Releasing new fighting games that look like fucking crap is NOT the right way to go. We live in a world where fucking open world GTA games have better graphics than fighting games with 2 moving objects on the screen. Something is really fucking wrong here.

Look at what a success Cuphead was in the run n' gun genre, which was even more dead than the fighting game genre when it came out. That's basically all you have to do. Just make another simple, solid game with 2019+ AAA presentation. People will go for it.
 
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