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Analysis Hardware Is it really necessary for next-gen consoles to render at full 4K resolution?

teezzy

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Mar 18, 2020
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I'd rather see consoles hit 60fps at 1440p. The push for resolution over framerate is a huge part of what drives me away from consoles
 

gamerguywashere

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Aug 3, 2020
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the series x might as well always 4k

as soon as MS greenlights lower res on seriesX is when seriesS now cannot run the game at 1080p

if the trend continues, seriesS will be religated to a stream box for xbox stadia

MS won't do this.

This should have a nice trickle down effect for Switch. Making PS5 the only machine I might have to buy.
 
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wordslaughter

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It's weird.

You'd think DLSS 2.0 would be something the consoles had because that's an example of REAL "secret sauce"

If the PS5 had DLSS 2.0 and the XSX didn't, the PS5 would be the more powerful console despite the XSX TFLOP advantage.

Will be interesting to see how various forms of checkerboard rending compete next gen. Despite having no tensor cores, will new techniques be developed to close the gap between checkboard rendering and DLSS, or wil the gap only widen?
 

xPikYx

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I find it interesting whether or not it's actually necessary for these systems to output at full 4K. When you consider all the talk on next-gen hardware, all the reveals, there's nothing on potential advances for either checkerboard rendering, or AMD's Fidelity FX. Surely these systems could potentially offer an advanced version of either offering as a choice for consumers. PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering is pretty damn effective and while Fidelity FX is no D.L.S.S...at the end of the day it looks just about as good with a big performance uplift. I see no reason not to include a performance mode for both systems on most, if not all, games. Especially on Sony's side of things, they made a big deal on checkerboard rendering on PS4 Pro, and it's odd there's no word on any advancements for the PS5. If it's possible, than why even bother wasting GPU resources on 4K if your "upscaling" technique is just as good? Why not a performance 1440P mode while keeping everything else the same. Is this just a case of both systems being capable of hitting 4K, so why bother with anything else? Am I missing something? Anyone have any insight?
It depends if you wanna see 4k@60fps







Or next gen visual no matter what reslution or framerates



 
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Tchu-Espresso

likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Apr 14, 2006
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1440p60 will roughly give you the same visual fidelity as 4k30.

1440p is ~45% the pixels of 4K while 60fps is 2x the pixels.
 

nochance

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Jul 27, 2020
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It is more like impossible. Unless running at 30fps, or with compromised details, the next gen consoles are not prepared to render games in native 4k. What we will most likely see is reconstruction and upscaling to throw in as much eye candy as possible.
 

wordslaughter

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It depends if you wanna see 4k@60fps




A very disingenuous comparison.

You are comparing actual games to a tech demo and pretending the difference in graphical quality is down the the resolution the developers chose.

REAL games NEVER end up looking as good as the tech demos suggest they might. Maybe next-next gen.

Look at the Unreal tech demos for the PS4, XB1 gen. Real games never looked like that.
 

nikolino840

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Dec 30, 2018
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It's weird.

You'd think DLSS 2.0 would be something the consoles had because that's an example of REAL "secret sauce"

If the PS5 had DLSS 2.0 and the XSX didn't, the PS5 would be the more powerful console despite the XSX TFLOP advantage.

Will be interesting to see how various forms of checkerboard rending compete next gen. Despite having no tensor cores, will new techniques be developed to close the gap between checkboard rendering and DLSS, or wil the gap only widen?
None of them will have dlss becouse is an nvidia technology,you can't use even on pc with an amd gpu card...maybe the ps5 have an nvidia chip for that i don't know

Tho..Microsoft have the in-house dlss-like (Microsoft ML ) plus a patented VRS for the console
 

nikolino840

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A very disingenuous comparison.

You are comparing actual games to a tech demo and pretending the difference in graphical quality is down the the resolution the developers chose.

REAL games NEVER end up looking as good as the tech demos suggest they might. Maybe next-next gen.

Look at the Unreal tech demos for the PS4, XB1 gen. Real games never looked like that.
Or the tech demo for one x that you can download from the store (insects)
 
Jun 2, 2017
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We should be pushing for better Ai, physics, animation/art/lighting/combat systems etc
But they've got people focused on how big the damn picture is lol

Who cares how big the picture is if the game plays like the same ol shit 🤷🏾‍♂️
 

MrFunSocks

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Jul 9, 2020
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4K30fps should be the absolutely minimum for the XSX and PS5 IMO. These consoles have more than enough power to do whatever the devs want at those resolutions given what we got at 4K on the One X.
 

geordiemp

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If next gen consoles can improve their image reconstruction techniques or get something along the lines of DLSS 2, then I don't see why native 4K should be the focus.

No need, temporal is the way forward for consoles. Tell us what errors and irregularities you see in the below technique.



OK, we are good thanks. And the target for nanite is 60 FPS, so temporal is even better at 60 FPS.

We can expect Ratchet and Miles 60 FPS modes to use dynamic scaling in performance mode and enhanced temporal, check it out..... And all is good.
 
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farmerboy

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Nov 17, 2013
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No, its not. A moving image from 6 ft away on the couch does not need to be native. What it needs to be is clean. If they can achieve that with a reconstructed image then more power to them.

DLSS is an exciting prospect. Hopefully competing tech can also appear or the checkerboard/temporal techniques mature even more.
 
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geordiemp

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A very disingenuous comparison.

You are comparing actual games to a tech demo and pretending the difference in graphical quality is down the the resolution the developers chose.

REAL games NEVER end up looking as good as the tech demos suggest they might. Maybe next-next gen.

Look at the Unreal tech demos for the PS4, XB1 gen. Real games never looked like that.

Its a temporal enhanced post rendering technique running on ps5, the game and whats been shown or rendered is irrelevant.

What temporal technique do you think will be used on Ratchet and Miles Morales in the performance 60 FPS mode ?

Not hard guess is it.
 
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xPikYx

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Jun 23, 2019
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A very disingenuous comparison.

You are comparing actual games to a tech demo and pretending the difference in graphical quality is down the the resolution the developers chose.

REAL games NEVER end up looking as good as the tech demos suggest they might. Maybe next-next gen.

Look at the Unreal tech demos for the PS4, XB1 gen. Real games never looked like that.
ask yourself why...probably because companies release uber powerful consoles like series S
 

Dibils2k

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Mar 22, 2015
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i think 1800p is passable if you really need that bit of a perf boost

but 1440p is not acceptable to me on a big 4k tv
 

wordslaughter

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ask yourself why...probably because companies release uber powerful consoles like series S

Nope. That wouldn't be the reason why. The reason why would be that it's a tech demo and NOT an actual game.

Agree with you that the Series S is shit and shouldn't exist.
 

Chromata

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No need, temporal is the way forward for consoles. Tell us what errors and irregularities you see in the below technique.



OK, we are good thanks. And the target for nanite is 60 FPS, so temporal is even better at 60 FPS.

We can expect Ratchet and Miles 60 FPS modes to use dynamic scaling in performance mode and enhanced temporal, check it out..... And all is good.

Yeah the UE5 demo is another great showcase why native 4k is unnecessary.

Looking forward to seeing more soon when the companies start talking again.
 

supernova8

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Jun 2, 2020
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I would personally prefer to see what devs could do with 1080p as the main target for PS5 and Series X. But I know that won't be happening.

I'd probably go for 1440p but it doesn't really roll of the tongue does it. 4K just has this slick sound.

I appreciated the jump from 1080p -> 1440p far more than 1440p -> 4K. When we eventually go from 4K to 8K it'll be the same bullshit.
 

Chromata

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Jul 11, 2019
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A very disingenuous comparison.

You are comparing actual games to a tech demo and pretending the difference in graphical quality is down the the resolution the developers chose.

REAL games NEVER end up looking as good as the tech demos suggest they might. Maybe next-next gen.

Look at the Unreal tech demos for the PS4, XB1 gen. Real games never looked like that.

How so? Many games look better than the Unreal Engine 4 tech demo we saw for current gen.
 
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Mar 27, 2020
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As long as the resolution is close I don't think anyone will notice without equipment or counting pixels. I would prefer a lower resolution and then have the framerate locked at 60FPS.
 

jose4gg

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May 7, 2020
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A very disingenuous comparison.

You are comparing actual games to a tech demo and pretending the difference in graphical quality is down the the resolution the developers chose.

REAL games NEVER end up looking as good as the tech demos suggest they might. Maybe next-next gen.

Look at the Unreal tech demos for the PS4, XB1 gen. Real games never looked like that.

Sorry, but this is the PS4 UE4 demo, and I find games that look better...

 
Apr 6, 2015
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Not when stuff like DLSS exist. If AMD can reproduce that then I’d actually prefer it over native.

Or as another posted above rendering at 1800p is nearly indistinguishable from native 2160 for me but runs better.
 
Jan 7, 2018
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Lets hope sony go for half 4K with CB upscaling in majority/ preferably all of games. It's dumb to target native 4K on a limited hardware thats set for 7 years.
 

psorcerer

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Nextgen graphics will be at max 1440p/30fps+upscale.
Maybe even 1080p in fast moving cases.
 

MarkMe2525

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Jul 16, 2017
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I find it interesting whether or not it's actually necessary for these systems to output at full 4K. When you consider all the talk on next-gen hardware, all the reveals, there's nothing on potential advances for either checkerboard rendering, or AMD's Fidelity FX. Surely these systems could potentially offer an advanced version of either offering as a choice for consumers. PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering is pretty damn effective and while Fidelity FX is no D.L.S.S...at the end of the day it looks just about as good with a big performance uplift. I see no reason not to include a performance mode for both systems on most, if not all, games. Especially on Sony's side of things, they made a big deal on checkerboard rendering on PS4 Pro, and it's odd there's no word on any advancements for the PS5. If it's possible, than why even bother wasting GPU resources on 4K if your "upscaling" technique is just as good? Why not a performance 1440P mode while keeping everything else the same. Is this just a case of both systems being capable of hitting 4K, so why bother with anything else? Am I missing something? Anyone have any insight?
I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully devs are wising up to this will use these up sampling and reconstruction techniques to push the envelope visually instead of pouring all the power into resolution. Maybe developers are thinking having true 4K is like a badge of honor that helps them stand out in the crowd. I don't know, I can't make sense of it either.
 

Kumomeme

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4k tv will be norm. cant ignored that.

also, there is machine learning upscalling. hope the console manufacture venture into that than waste resource for native resolution.
 
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geordiemp

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Nextgen graphics will be at max 1440p/30fps+upscale.
Maybe even 1080p in fast moving cases.

Dont agree, Lumen and Nanite was early build and they were targeting 60, and it was a showcase on graphics and most of the frame budget was on Lumen early build.

1440p60 temporal will be a performance common target is my guess. or 30 FPs with more ray tracing.
 
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psorcerer

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Dont agree, Lumen and Nanite was early build and they were targeting 60, and it was a showcase on graphics and most of the frame budget was on Lumen early build.

1440p60 temporal will be a performance common target is my guess. or 30 FPs with more ray tracing.

60fps will be a harder and harder target to meet as we go forward with dependent rendering tech (RT and others).
Essentially what people want is to have more and more pixels depend on each other, less locality, more layers per pixel, more "everything impacts everything", more "true global lighting", etc.
It means Amdahl Law will be much more prominent and we may even get to a place where PC with 3x GPU cannot get even 1.5x fps increase.
 

Razvedka

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Oct 20, 2018
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No. Personally I'd prefer it if PS5 targeted 2k and used checkerboarding or something to hit 4k. That'd give the machine a lot more graphical headroom and still out out crisp games.
 
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Kamina

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Jun 2, 2013
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If a drop to 1800p checkerboarding is necessary to maintain 60fps i’ll gladly take it.