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Is anything of value to the more “hardcore” community really being lost with the Activision Blizzard Acquisition?

ReBurn

Gold Member
Based on the direction Activision Blizzard has been taking the past decade, is the buyout really that much of a concern beyond the super casual audience who only buys Madden/FIFA and Call of Duty every single year, and potentially for Sony as a company?

Activision Blizzard is just as bad as EA (if not worse) these days and is the epitome of creative stagnation in the industry. Bobby Kotick has been consolidating every development team Activision has into Call of Duty support studios, and I suspect that Blizzard would have increasingly seen a similar fate in the following years. Activision Blizzard would have continued to devalue itself in the eyes of the more hardcore audience by focusing solely on Call of Duty with no other IPs being used, so outside of the concern of monolithic megacorp expansionism (which is a valid concern), I fail to see how the Microsoft acquisition is a terrifying proposition.

Time will tell how this all turns out, but I’m more optimistic about the future of Activision Blizzard simply because Phil Spencer has an incentive to release a greater variety of games on Game Pass rather than solely developing Call of Duty year after year. This also might lead to Blizzard games potentially coming to Steam in the future.
The revenue share generated by selling millions of copies of COD, FIFA and Madden to the "casual" audience provides subsidies for the creation of "hardcore" first party exclusive games. Losing major third party titles would make a decent chunk of change disappear from Sony's cash flow.
 

The Alien

Banned
What do I know...thought COD, Warcraft, Diablo all had gardcore, rapid franchises. MYbe we need to define what is "hardcore"

I dont really give a shit about another of thos franchises, but can respect the fact that millions of people love the games and go nuts over the current and upcoming games.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Diablo. That's about it for me, can't think of anything else ActiBlizz does that I care about.

But that's not the point. The point is that a lot of people DO care about COD etc, and if all those people leave PlayStation for Xbox, what does that mean for the future of the amazing single player games Sony makes that I DO care very much about? If you think the two are completely unrelated, you haven't thought further about this than "I don't care about COD".
 

bender

What time is it?
While I can easily avoid the likes of EA and Ubisoft, I'd almost lump Activision in those ranks but:

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2 HD was great. The console iterations of Diablo 3 were great. I'm having a good time with Diablo 2 HD. I'm not sure I have a ton of faith in Diablo 4 but I still want to try it.

And while the more hardcore are fine skipping catalogues that cater to a wider audience, the wider audience is exactly why Microsoft scooped up the likes of Fallout, TES and COD.
 
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Dream-Knife

Banned
This thread is pretty much cope. No console can just survive with it's hardcore base. Look at wii U.

COD has 'Hardcore' mode.
 
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Petopia

Banned
I don't really see the value in bringing Blizzard games to steam. People who play WoW and Starcraft 2 have their own guilds and friends lists on Battle.net if they need them. Microsoft might find more value in adding some of their multiplayer game pass games to Battle.net.
Why not, pc guys prefer steam over any other launcher it would definitely add more numbers to their games.
 

MrA

Banned
There is a basic fallacy in the question.

It is 2022: are we still thinking that complex and highly competitive games such as Call of Duty and Fifa are "casual"?
Because they definitely sell to a casual audience, an audience that play them casually and procede to play few if any other games? Much like how pokemon or Mario sell to a casual audience? part of the reason securing their dedicated cod/fifa fans early on is important is because casual cod or fifa player will buy the console their friends play on,
 
I love how on GAF, CoD and FIFA - both games with hyper competitive multiplayer, are “casual”. I guess Uncharted is “hardcore”.
People who don't play any other games and have no idea what's going on in the gaming industry buy Call of Duty, Madden, Fortnite, etc.

That's what people mean when they say casual vs hardcore - how invested thry are in gaming as a whole, not how competitive the game is.
 

Roni

Gold Member
Based on the direction Activision Blizzard has been taking the past decade, is the buyout really that much of a concern beyond the super casual audience who only buys Madden/FIFA and Call of Duty every single year, and potentially for Sony as a company?

Activision Blizzard is just as bad as EA (if not worse) these days and is the epitome of creative stagnation in the industry. Bobby Kotick has been consolidating every development team Activision has into Call of Duty support studios, and I suspect that Blizzard would have increasingly seen a similar fate in the following years. Activision Blizzard would have continued to devalue itself in the eyes of the more hardcore audience by focusing solely on Call of Duty with no other IPs being used, so outside of the concern of monolithic megacorp expansionism (which is a valid concern), I fail to see how the Microsoft acquisition is a terrifying proposition.

Time will tell how this all turns out, but I’m more optimistic about the future of Activision Blizzard simply because Phil Spencer has an incentive to release a greater variety of games on Game Pass rather than solely developing Call of Duty year after year. This also might lead to Blizzard games potentially coming to Steam in the future.
I dunno, Sekiro is Activision, right? That's pretty hardcore...
 
There's no discounting the impact CoD has right now. It's absolutely massive and the number one seller across gaming basically every year. But even as popular as it is, it only sells to like 10% of the userbase in any given year. Most gamers have different tastes, so it's not like CoD is dominating to MOST of the userbase. It's just really hard to have a wide penetration beyond 10% for any given title. So it's still super impressive.

I agree, however, that the actual brand of CoD may not be THAT strong. It's not Star Wars. It's not Marvel. It's a wildly popular shooter with no real iconic characters or anything. In that sense, it does have some risk of brand erosion and just simple "casual burnout". It has happened to many wildly popular games before, especially from Activision (Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, etc).

It is kind of funny how I've personally not been impacted by these two enormous acquisitions of Bethesda and Activision since I never played any of their games, just not my cup of tea and never have been. Just goes to show you again how fragmented gaming is in terms of tastes. I would have been much more upset personally had it been a much smaller dev like From, Square, or Capcom.
 

Markio128

Member
There's no discounting the impact CoD has right now. It's absolutely massive and the number one seller across gaming basically every year. But even as popular as it is, it only sells to like 10% of the userbase in any given year. Most gamers have different tastes, so it's not like CoD is dominating to MOST of the userbase. It's just really hard to have a wide penetration beyond 10% for any given title. So it's still super impressive.

I agree, however, that the actual brand of CoD may not be THAT strong. It's not Star Wars. It's not Marvel. It's a wildly popular shooter with no real iconic characters or anything. In that sense, it does have some risk of brand erosion and just simple "casual burnout". It has happened to many wildly popular games before, especially from Activision (Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, etc).

It is kind of funny how I've personally not been impacted by these two enormous acquisitions of Bethesda and Activision since I never played any of their games, just not my cup of tea and never have been. Just goes to show you again how fragmented gaming is in terms of tastes. I would have been much more upset personally had it been a much smaller dev like From, Square, or Capcom.
What folk here don’t realise is that, yes, having all those IPs is great, but you still need the talent to produce great products. We’ve already seen ex-COD devs move to PS with Deviation games, who are more than capable of building a PS exclusive multiplayer shooter that can compete with COD. I honestly believe this will be a positive for PS fans because Sony are now going to have to fill any voids in their release schedule with new IPs and it seems like they now have the studios to do so. It’s almost as if they saw this coming.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I love how on GAF, CoD and FIFA - both games with hyper competitive multiplayer, are “casual”. I guess Uncharted is “hardcore”.

Gears, CoD, Battlefield, Doom, Halo, sports games et al; games that require skill and are highly competitive are what I would consider hardcore. Little turn-based JRPGs, cinematic games with limited gameplay or artsy fartsy indie games don't seem hardcore at all to me.
 

TheMan

Member
I think there are pleeeenty of "hardcore" gamers who still enjoy the mainstream AAA games like COD, Fifa, etc.

Regardless, i'm not necessarily worried about this acquisition. In fact I think Microsoft is working towards a future where the logo on the box under your TV won't matter, it will all be about services, which is frankly fine by me.
 
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What folk here don’t realise is that, yes, having all those IPs is great, but you still need the talent to produce great products. We’ve already seen ex-COD devs move to PS with Deviation games, who are more than capable of building a PS exclusive multiplayer shooter that can compete with COD. I honestly believe this will be a positive for PS fans because Sony are now going to have to fill any voids in their release schedule with new IPs and it seems like they now have the studios to do so. It’s almost as if they saw this coming.

Yeah I do wonder a bit if these recent partnerships with ex-Bungie and ex-CoD devs is in response to the recognized risk of Activision selling out and they wanted to diversify away from relying too much on CoD...they probably didn't expect this to happen as soon as it did, though.

There's a real challenge IMHO with where CoD/Activision go from here. Microsoft is going to have their work cutout for them trying to ensure that these studios don't deteriorate and continue to remain a competitive, dominant brand over the coming years. Much of CoD's worth was through the roots that Vince developed back in the day, and these studios have just been churning out similar sequels every single year. Most brands with that sort of model eventually lose favor of casuals over the long-term.
 

Markio128

Member
Gears, CoD, Battlefield, Doom, Halo, sports games et al; games that require skill and are highly competitive are what I would consider hardcore. Little turn-based JRPGs, cinematic games with limited gameplay or artsy fartsy indie games don't seem hardcore at all to me.
Just my opinion, but every single game could have a hardcore following. There are gamers who are heavily invested in a particular game. You mentioned JRPGs; a hardcore FF7 fan could know every nuance of the game, be invested in every character, collect figurines and maybe even cosplay. That’s how I determine a hardcore gamer. The type of game has nothing to do with it in my mind.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Just my opinion, but every single game could have a hardcore following. There are gamers who are heavily invested in a particular game. You mentioned JRPGs; a hardcore FF7 fan could know every nuance of the game, be invested in every character, collect figurines and maybe even cosplay. That’s how I determine a hardcore gamer. The type of game has nothing to do with it in my mind.

I would call the gamer you describe an enthusiast and one that works at honing their skills and plays primarily highly competitive skill-based games hardcore. I'm not saying either of our opinions are right or wrong that's just how it feels to me.
 

Markio128

Member
Yeah I do wonder a bit if these recent partnerships with ex-Bungie and ex-CoD devs is in response to the recognized risk of Activision selling out and they wanted to diversify away from relying too much on CoD...they probably didn't expect this to happen as soon as it did, though.

There's a real challenge IMHO with where CoD/Activision go from here. Microsoft is going to have their work cutout for them trying to ensure that these studios don't deteriorate and continue to remain a competitive, dominant brand over the coming years. Much of CoD's worth was through the roots that Vince developed back in the day, and these studios have just been churning out similar sequels every single year. Most brands with that sort of model eventually lose favor of casuals over the long-term.
COD has been a good source of income for Sony, do doubt, but it has also been on the decline for a few years now, so Sony may have created the new studios knowing that Activision were a shitshow and worried that COD quality and sales would eventually fall off a cliff. And tbh, I still think the next COD will be on PS5, so Sony probably have a bit of time to build a replacement.
 

Markio128

Member
Just my opinion, but every single game could have a hardcore following. There are gamers who are heavily invested in a particular game. You mentioned JRPGs; a hardcore FF7 fan could know every nuance of the game, be invested in every character, collect figurines and maybe even cosplay. That’s how I determine a hardcore gamer. The type of game has nothing to do with it in my mind.
One of the definitions of hardcore:

highly committed in one's support for or dedication to something.
"hardcore gamers“
 
ds6sbyB.jpg

We are now at the testing stage I think
well... Get hyped on more purchases and controller designs.

PS fans play:
video games GIF


Xbox fans get excited on the controller:
Master Chief Halo Infinite GIF by Xbox
 

Woggleman

Member
I couldn't care less about COD but the success of these kinds of games and the money that comes with it allows Sony and other brands to make the games I love. Without COD, GTA and sports games selling consoles I would not have TLOU, Horizon or GOW series.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Nothing at all is being lost. The games will still be available to anyone that wants to play them, they will just have to buy a different console if they only have a Playstation or Switch.
 

01011001

Banned
Based on the direction Activision Blizzard has been taking the past decade, is the buyout really that much of a concern beyond the super casual audience who only buys Madden/FIFA and Call of Duty every single year, and potentially for Sony as a company?

Activision Blizzard is just as bad as EA (if not worse) these days and is the epitome of creative stagnation in the industry. Bobby Kotick has been consolidating every development team Activision has into Call of Duty support studios, and I suspect that Blizzard would have increasingly seen a similar fate in the following years. Activision Blizzard would have continued to devalue itself in the eyes of the more hardcore audience by focusing solely on Call of Duty with no other IPs being used, so outside of the concern of monolithic megacorp expansionism (which is a valid concern), I fail to see how the Microsoft acquisition is a terrifying proposition.

Time will tell how this all turns out, but I’m more optimistic about the future of Activision Blizzard simply because Phil Spencer has an incentive to release a greater variety of games on Game Pass rather than solely developing Call of Duty year after year. This also might lead to Blizzard games potentially coming to Steam in the future.

wtf? lol

Diablo, Overwatch, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, basically all the classic Sierra adventure games like Space Quest, Warcraft, Hexen...
and Microsoft already voiced interest in using older IPs from Activision Blizzard again.
who knows? maybe we will see a new THPS? maybe a new Spyro? since Xbox needs more in house platformers in general... they now not only have the IPs but also the studios that can pull off good sequels to them
 
Nothing at all is being lost. The games will still be available to anyone that wants to play them, they will just have to buy a different console if they only have a Playstation or Switch.
With MS they don't need to buy a console at all. No other platform holder gives gamers more ways to play their games. Nothing is lost at all.
 

01011001

Banned
With MS they don't need to buy a console at all. No other platform holder gives gamers more ways to play their games. Nothing is lost at all.

well if you don't want to play on a Phone + input lag then you will need a PC or an Xbox. but it is true for the casual audience that it's very easy to play their games.
 
Starcraft is not casual. Curious what you would consider a "hardcore" game. Dont just name something that's supposed to be difficult (fromsoftware).
 
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Tschumi

Member
A week ago everyone thought blizzard was a waste and Activision were worse. Just like 2 years ago everyone thought Bethesda were fallen auteurs.

You guys are living in the 00s lol, most of the talented people at these companies have long since left.

If we see more than.. one of Activision's dormant IPs getting a AAA release this generation I'll eat my own back's switch.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
A week ago everyone thought blizzard was a waste and Activision were worse. Just like 2 years ago everyone thought Bethesda were fallen auteurs.

You guys are living in the 00s lol, most of the talented people at these companies have long since left.

If we see more than.. one of Activision's dormant IPs getting a AAA release this generation I'll eat my own back's switch.
I think you'll find it's the opposite - straight after MS announced they were buying both these publishers, all of a sudden their status changed on places like this. We've now got people on here saying COD is irrelevant and Sony can just whip up a replacement FPS that will sell 10+ million copies every single year. People on here are legit trying to convince themself that the highest selling game every year on every platform it releases on is irrelevant lol.
 
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Lognor

Banned
COD has been a good source of income for Sony, do doubt, but it has also been on the decline for a few years now, so Sony may have created the new studios knowing that Activision were a shitshow and worried that COD quality and sales would eventually fall off a cliff. And tbh, I still think the next COD will be on PS5, so Sony probably have a bit of time to build a replacement.
That's some serious copium. Wow!

It's on the decline but it's still the best selling game on PlayStation every year. Huh.

And here you are spinning this into how smart Sony is because they knew cod was dead and that's why they've apparently created a new studio to make a new cod type game. And of course it will be brilliant because why not? And it'll probably have an amazing single player mode, right? So you'll play and love it... something you've never been able to do with cod. Is that right?
 

Tschumi

Member
The opposite to how you're portraying it though.
I tend to think it's pretty obvious that people who expect something generation-defining from Bethesda now are the ones who are flipping precedent.

To throw them a bone though I'm prepared for them to make a good game, happy to have the computer to play it if it is good.. a few years from now.. but people using them as a byword for guaranteed excellence make me smirk
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Just think what people thought of the Smaller stuff that Disney acquired with marvel and Star Wars. Now the Disney plus service has massive hit shows and enjoyable side content like the mandaLorian, book of bobba fett, Loki, Hawkeye, wandavision, and all the more coming like obi wan.

microsoft are setting themselves up to be able to tap into tons of franchises that activision and blizzard didnt know or want to because kotick was so obsessed in the yearly cod churn out.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Blizzard has some of the most hardcore brands dude, never heard of warcraft\starcraft\diablo??

Cod is just the most famous brand they have.
 
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