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Rumor Inside the target specs of the next Xbox 'Project Scarlett,' 'Anaconda', and 'Lockhart' (WindowsCentral.com )

Rolling_Start

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Ahh god damn.

Delete this drunk old man post if you want. Review the edits to make sure this isn't a trick if ya want!
 
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Rolling_Start

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They haven’t acknowledged a timeframe for cross-gen expiring. It may end at three years or five years or last the entire generation. We don’t know.

We know third parties can do whatever they want. That has literally been stated.

MS can and should do whatever they fuck they want. Though it's clear from Booty they foresee a time time when not all Scarlett games are on X1 platforms.

To try and present this as "all Scarlett games will be available on X1" is incredibly dishonest and frankly, a fanboy [] trick.

Pack that [stuff] in.
 
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RaySoft

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Well multiplatform and Xbox games have to run on PC anyway, so PC has to be a consideration in any "lower limit" of gameplay critical performance.

And even if you could integrate large amounts of GPU compute into core gameplay (and not just fairly obvious stuff like updating nodes for pathfinding in changing environments) you have the additional challenge of making things fun.

So far, I've seen nothing more impressive than RDR2 in terms of open world, even including PS4 exclusives.
I’ve been working with scalable engines for 20 years. I know what’s possible and what isn’t. The bigger issue people had was the cpu but that looks to be the same in both.

But you can make anything run on anything, with work. The point of Lockhart is, at its very core, that you can take a cutting edge product and reduce it in several ways until it will run on a lower spec system. Again, the only issue before was cpu interaction, however that looks to be like a cows opinion now. Reducing from 4k to 1080p, without changing anything else at all, already reduces vram utilisation. But loading in lower mips as well as cutting back in other areas would easily fit it into lower memory requirements.

This isn’t rocket science, it’s basic square peg, round hole stuff. The square peg won’t fit so shave the corners off and it does. But the round peg will always fit just fine.
Look at bitbydeath bitbydeath 's post above.. Try to scale that down to a One S...
 

bitbydeath

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We know third parties can do whatever they want. That has literally been stated.

MS can and should do whatever they fuck they want. Though it's clear from Booty they foresee a time time when not all Scarlett games are on X1 platforms.

To try and present this as "all Scarlett games will be available on X1" is incredibly dishonest and frankly, a fanboy [] trick.

Pack that [stuff] in.

You got any links for where he indicates cross-gen to be time based?
 

Rolling_Start

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You got any links for where he indicates cross-gen to be time based?

Yeah, thanks. Got them from the original article that was later used for the hatched job shitty t3 thread you created here (you never bothered looking for it).


"When Scarlett launches, there will still be the Xbox One S and Xbox One X out there. We need to approach that family of devices in the same way that we approach PC, where the content scales to meet the device"

You didn't link to the full article though. You used a two steps removed reinterpretation of the original interview to create your clickbait dumb as fuck thread.

Oh, btw, you got any actual quotes from Phil or Booty where they say all Scarlett games will run on X1? No, of course you fucking haven't.
 

bitbydeath

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Yeah, thanks. Got them from the original article that was later used for the hatched job shitty t3 thread you created here (you never bothered looking for it).


"When Scarlett launches, there will still be the Xbox One S and Xbox One X out there. We need to approach that family of devices in the same way that we approach PC, where the content scales to meet the device"

You didn't link to the full article though. You used a two steps removed reinterpretation of the original interview to create your clickbait dumb as fuck thread.

Oh, btw, you got any actual quotes from Phil or Booty where they say all Scarlett games will run on X1? No, of course you fucking haven't.

Your quote doesn’t indicate time based and it does state Xbox One directly as being what it will scale towards.
 
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Rolling_Start

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Your quote doesn’t indicate time based and it does state Xbox One directly as being what it will scale towards.

It indicates that scaling is a launch time issue and you know it. There's even more in the article.

I'll ask again - do you have any quotes from Phil or Booty that all Scarlett games will run on X1?

And the answer is no, you don't, because you're making shit up because you're partisan, don't read whole interviews, and don't understand technology. Boo Hoo. I'm being a dick, tue. But I'm drunk, I'm right, and both you and the mods know it.*

*I'll calm down now, I promise.
 
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bitbydeath

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It indicates that scaling is a launch time issue and you know it. There's even more in the article.

I'll ask again - do you have any quotes from Phil or Booty that all Scarlett games will run on X1?

And the answer is no, you don't, because you're making shit up because you're partisan, don't read whole interviews, and don't understand technology. Boo Hoo. I'm being a dick, tue. But I'm drunk, I'm right, and both you and the mods know it.*

*I'll calm down now, I promise.

My argument is that they haven’t suggested any timeframe. You asking me for a quote on timeframe is my point.
 

Rolling_Start

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My argument is that they haven’t suggested any timeframe. You asking me for a quote on timeframe is my point.

Okay, what you actually meant with all your previous posts and threads is that MS intend to have a cross gen window before moving beyond X1.

I'm glad we could find this understanding, and shared awareness of MS's intentions. ;)
 
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Okay, what you actually meant with all your previous posts and threads is that MS intend to have a cross gen window before moving beyond X1.

I'm glad we could find this understanding, and shared awareness of MS's intentions. ;)
Personally I am more generous and expect that cross gen window to be 2 years. But even at such a short time frame, it still leaves Lockhart with no reason for existing.

At 2 years, just when Lockhart start to have exclusives, there would start to be 2nd hand PS5 and Scarlets available on the market. And what was people suppose to do with Lockhart during those two years? Might as well not releasing it at all until the cross gen window ends.

Can Lockhart survive 2 years with no exclusives to play on it?
 

onQ123

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So you think overall world complexity is just CPU bound? That is extremely old fashioned view. GPU's, are in this day and age, also taking on a job as a co-processor. It's not just a rasterizer anymore. It's async compute are also used for different complex calculations, off-loading the cpu (and doing a much better job at it than a cpu would do anyways) By your comment, that thinking are more grounded in the '90's. Hardware design has changed over the years, it's much easier today to draw more performance out of the system without micromanaging everything. It's clear that the hardware guys and the programmers are actually talking to eachother now.

I know about GPU compute I was the main one talking about it last generation ,
 

Silent Viper

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No, because PC games are, under a certain point of view, underutilising high end HW for brute force-able graphical flare only and the big changes in PC gaming are happening when the minimum specs make a jump usually coinciding with the game consoles releases. Many PC games are now made possible by having the console market to prop them up (see CDPR comments about console versions effect on Witcher 3 development for example).



Some people wish consoles to be no more than PC’s, but they are not. They are fixed HW closed boxes where developers have time and incentive to develop exclusive software targeting the new custom HW and custom OS combination and not an open platform with an OS that has strong backwards compatibility for HW peripherals and software applications. Hence why you will see Scarlett, for example, offering API’s to access the SSD and manage RAM you are likely not to see on Windows desktop for quite some time.


From what we have seen on PC’s, for pure gaming apps, a Navi GPU is more likely to deliver close to its theoretical peak than a Polaris based GPU (almost closing that gap).
No such a thing as NVFLOP, Navi FLOP, Polaris FLOP, etc...


If u real developer or know anything about development then you should know every game is scaled from high end to low end systems. It's happening now on consoles and for ages on PC. It will continue to happen in future as well. Most Engines are scalable today to work on different gpus.


And that tera flop question was to know whether u are one of those ppl who crying about Lockhart being weaker than X coz of 4TF gpu rumours. Navi even with less tflops will out perform X gpu with ease
 

Psykodad

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We know third parties can do whatever they want. That has literally been stated.

MS can and should do whatever they fuck they want. Though it's clear from Booty they foresee a time time when not all Scarlett games are on X1 platforms.

To try and present this as "all Scarlett games will be available on X1" is incredibly dishonest and frankly, a fanboy [] trick.

Pack that [stuff] in.
You do realize there's a chance that third parties skip xbox, pushing PS5 sales, right?
 
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megreotsugua

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If MS is targetting 12TF for scarlett then I don't see how they can be the most powerful next-gen. I think they might still try to target higher flops.
 
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Psykodad

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This is the dumbest fanboy, wet dream of a scenario I’ve read in a while. Even if Xbox sells 50M consoles and Sony Sells 100M consoles, you think 3rd parties would just pass on potentially selling 50M copies of something?
Not collectively, obviously.

But depending on the game, third parties might opt to not release their game on Xbox, if their next-gen game needs to run on the One S too.
Or are you gonna deny that possibility?
 
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Mistershine.

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Not collectively, obviously.

But depending on the game, third parties might opt to not release their game on Xbox, if their next-gen game needs to run on the One S too.
Or are you gonna deny that possibility?
The cross gen quote is about first party titles, third party titles can target next gen only from launch if they want.
 

Pallas

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Not collectively, obviously.

But depending on the game, third parties might opt to not release their game on Xbox, if their next-gen game needs to run on the One S too.
Or are you gonna deny that possibility?

You mean those niche Japanese titles that Phil keeps going to Japan to get on Xbox? Thats about all I can think of aside from paid third party exclusives.
 

Psykodad

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The cross gen quote is about first party titles, third party titles can target next gen only from launch if they want.
That makes sense. Otherwise they'll run into the problem I was talking about.
You mean those niche Japanese titles that Phil keeps going to Japan to get on Xbox? Thats about all I can think of aside from paid third party exclusives.
Not really sure where you're going with this.
 

Panajev2001a

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If u real developer or know anything about development then you should know every game is scaled from high end to low end systems. It's happening now on consoles and for ages on PC. It will continue to happen in future as well. Most Engines are scalable today to work on different gpus.

You are repeating your point over and over without reading any feedback you get. Alas, I refer you to earlier post as why others and I disagree on your rosy picture. Everything can scale, everything can be done, but there are costs / benefits from not having to do so over a large variety of HW specs. You can already see it with console generation releases and minimum HW specs changes on the PC gaming side, games created with specs in mind and either get nasty cuts on lower end platforms (see OG Xbox One performance on modern titles vs PS4, DF did and found a widening gap and they were comparing the S specs bump even) or they ask you for full price money for the port... PC Witcher 3 + PS4 Witcher 3 + Switch Witcher 3... each requiring an additional purchase (customers pay the porting cost and you bet they were testing the console versions, or similarly species PC’s, alongside the PC ones instead of leaving it down to the last few weeks... how do you think they get good looking stable 60 FPS multiplatform games? Develop for top PC and then at the last minute figure out how to make it run at 60 FPS on OG Xbox One without brutal cuts on tons of features/effects?)... there posted the same stuff again instead of linking the other posts, not that it will be likely read this time either ;)...

Do not get, beside platform loyalty and the platform provider in question pushing for it, why some people like yourself are seemingly hellbent on having console become the worst of both models (worst of PC and worst of consoles): closed platforms + walled garden protected + volatile HW specs no developer targets directly anymore...


And that tera flop question was to know whether u are one of those ppl who crying about Lockhart being weaker than X coz of 4TF gpu rumours. Navi even with less tflops will out perform X gpu with ease
I got that, but while we have a more advanced architecture with features the previous one lacks and that will likely hit a lot closer to its performance peak (and in FP16 heavy code Lockhart will pull ahead more over Scorpio too, but then you need to consider rapid packed math useful for the Pro too ;)), 2 or so TFLOPS is still a large enough divide to make Lockhart outperform Scorpio with “ease”.
 
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I don't


I like it.

For those who think that the Lockhart will be $299, does that mean that the X will be $199 by next year?

Bear in mind that Microsoft have already said that the X will be 'forward compatible'. If price is my gatekeeper to next gen, why would I spend $299 when I can spend $199 and be forwards compatible for the first 12-18 months?

IF Microsoft release two consoles, do we have the confidence that they won't ditch the Lockhart after 2 years, drop the price of the Scarlett and release a Scarlett X?


Why buy a 2020 car when you can get a fully loaded 2018-2019 for a cheaper price?

Someone is gonna buy that 2020 regardless.
 

Pallas

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That makes sense. Otherwise they'll run into the problem I was talking about.

Not really sure where you're going with this.

You said third party developers could skip Xbox, you never specified who or how many, but the thing is that has already happened with the Xbox One when it concerns niche titles from out East, hence my comment about Phil.

I don’t see any major publishers/developers skipping Xbox, unless they have some of publishing agreement with Sony.
 

Psykodad

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You said third party developers could skip Xbox, you never specified who or how many, but the thing is that has already happened with the Xbox One when it concerns niche titles from out East, hence my comment about Phil.

I don’t see any major publishers/developers skipping Xbox, unless they have some of publishing agreement with Sony.
Well, yeah.

What I said is under the assumption that MS will gimp next-gen.
Rn it's just FUD with all the rumors, so anything can happen at this point.
 

ethomaz

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“The relatively modest increase in clock speed over the previous-gen systems may seem mild”

You start to think about a lot of thing with that great writing :D

3.5Ghz is almost double increase in clock.