Support NeoGAF

[Jtibh]

I love how we went from consoles holding back pc's to consoles holding back consoles.

Next gen is dead. Staida wins. Fatality

 

[NickFire]

I do believe that to be the case. GPU TFLOPS have more to do with processing graphics than much else. The CPUs have more than enough power to provide the innovations in gameplay that people are looking for such as smarter AI, physics, Quantity of AI on screen at once, high poly meshes, so on and so forth.

Also consider that Xbox One X titles had 4k asset downloads that improved the look of the games at 4K.

I'm no expert, but I always thought the interplay between cpu and gpu was more complex and could be exploited beyond mere better resolution and fps. So part of me hopes you are right (so nothing gets held back), but part of me still hopes you are wrong (so that a 12TF system means more than 4Tf with better graphics).

 

[FireFly]

I think most of us understand that perfectly well. But people buying a 12 TF LAUNCH system have expectations of games designed to push 12 TF. If MS insists on feature parity between 4TF and 12TF (seems rather likely), do you really believe they can just turn down graphical settings and never have to make compromises to ensure parity? I have a lot of trouble believing that,

Well, at 1080p it would be a quarter of the power, rendering a quarter of the resolution, so it matches up perfectly.

 

[Bernkastel]

TFs would matter if your comparing like for like, same architectures, RDNA2 to RDNA2, then TFs would be a strong indicator, though Ray tracing implementation differences could play a bit if that role too, in addition

The whole Xbox One and PS4 family used GCN architecture. 4 TF of RDNA2 > 6 TF of GCN.

Well, at 1080p it would be a quarter of the power, rendering a quarter of the resolution, so it matches up perfectly.

You seriously think Ryzen 3.5 GHz + 13 GB Ram + Navi GPU with RDNA2 is supposed to do 1080p gaming ?

 

[Potato Chip PRO]

I'm only going to wait for the TRUE specs officially from Microsoft... As will I also wait for the true specs of the PS5 from Sony. Exciting times ahead but I'm not convinced on any of this till they publicly release the info!

 

[NickFire]

Paging people with programming experience. Paging people with programming experience.

Are the benefits of more powerful gpu's limited to resolution and fps? My guess is no from the little I have read, but others seem to think yes without hesitation, so I have no idea.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I'm no expert, but I always thought the interplay between cpu and gpu was more complex and could be exploited beyond mere better resolution and fps. So part of me hopes you are right (so nothing gets held back), but part of me still hopes you are wrong (so that a 12TF system means more than 4Tf with better graphics).

It’s mostly resolution that taxes the GPU and when you consider 4x the resolution of 1080p is 4k it only makes sense. Clearly there will be head room for more effects depending on if devs cater to 4k or 2k but both consoles should be able to display the same things, just on has higher quality assets and more resolution.

Let’s not forget that lower quality assets will require less RAM as well since you don’t need 4k textures and higher poly models.

 

[semicool]

The whole Xbox One and PS4 family used GCN architecture. 4 TF of RDNA2 > 6 TF of GCN.

You seriously think Ryzen 3.5 GHz + 13 GB Ram + Navi GPU with RDNA2 is supposed to do 1080p gaming ?

I don't think you understood my post, it was to compare ps5 to Xbox Next with TFs would be valid cause rDNA2 to rDNA2

 

[TLZ]

Just so you know jez not only had superb sources, but i know of like 3 other sources that all believe this. Tom Warren is one, the others well lets just say they are even better than Tom. So yeah I think i stayed strong and never waiver on most powerful console next gen. Xbox

So it's still all rumors and nothing concrete.

 

[skneogaf]

How can games be hindered if they have to be developed with the 4TB console in mind?

Genuine question as they're not on pc.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

So it's still all rumors and nothing concrete.

Nah its pretty concrete that those are targets

 

[Smaller than Atom]

Are devs complaining tho? Which dev is complaining about it when it hasn't been officially announced?

This.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

It’s really hard for me to believe that PS5 will be 3TF behind to start the next-gen.

I’m hoping we get concrete specs from both sides soon enough so the speculation ends.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

It’s really hard for me to believe that PS5 will be 3TF behind to start the next-gen.

I’m hoping we get concrete specs from both sides soon enough so the speculation ends.

Who told you that?

 

[Celcius]

Paging people with programming experience. Paging people with programming experience.

Are the benefits of more powerful gpu's limited to resolution and fps? My guess is no from the little I have read, but others seem to think yes without hesitation, so I have no idea.

I'm a programmer but I don't make videogames lol. With that being said, there is more to having more powerful gpus than just resolution and frame rate. More powerful gpus could push more polygons for increased detail in characters, objects, etc... more power could allow you to enable ray-tracing, more powerful gpus could help with having larger or more interactive worlds/levels, more enemies/objects on screen, etc...

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Poster quoted here says 12.8tf. And this is TimDog.

Yep, TimDog.

 

[Bryank75]

Yep, TimDog.

XcloudTimdog What's this 12.8 about? Scar or PS5? If you don't mind clarifying?

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Just so you know jez not only had superb sources, but i know of like 3 other sources that all believe this. Tom Warren is one, the others well lets just say they are even better than Tom. So yeah I think i stayed strong and never waiver on most powerful console next gen. Xbox

Yep, everything is superb on Xbox, MS sources ( others doesn't matter ), games, you even....

You should only trust information from MS shills. Didn't you get the memo?

You're god damn right, man! You're god damn right!

 

[Clear]

If Lockhart exists, One X is gonna get discontinued so fast. It has literally no place in that line-up.

 

[mckmas8808]

This article is crap. It’s just a bunch of rumors without anything hard backing it up.

These rumors have been going around for the last 18 months though.

Even if they get rid of Xbox One S & Xbox One X you still have low end PCs. MS has no reason to jump out the window & try making games that can only run on a 12TF console that may or may not sale enough to recoup from the work it would take to make a game that only play on that console.

This might be the sad truth guys.

 

[Nikana]

I'm guessing lockhart won't have Ray Tracing and Anaconda will and they are going to sell it as 4K and 4K with Ray Tracing.

 

[The Alien]

a pro tip for your:

search for the 10 last biggest AAA games from 2019 and then look on the "minimum requirements PC specs"

can you see how stupid your post is? ...

I actually think the post was stupid because he clearly didn't read the quotes around the 4TF and what the performance expectations for Lockhart would be...

"It's important to note, however, that TF doesn't really tell the entire story of next-gen systems, owing to piles of custom tech Microsoft is planning to bake into these consoles. For example, Microsoft already spoke about how ray-tracing will be a factor in next-gen systems, and while Lockhart has less raw power than the X, it will have capabilities that elevate it further than the X in various ways."​

 

[bumleforce]

A little off subject but I find it weird gears 5 not being nominated for any game of the year awards despute reviewing well

 

[bumleforce]

Looking forward to a console which offers no games (for me) and also a lot of other people. Zero chance for Microsoft after Phillies VR statement.

U mean u and the .5% of gamers who own VR? U wont be missed

 

[Sota4077]

Trying to undermine Sony, by holding back next-gen.

That doesn't make any sense. That would be like saying folks with lower end GPU's on their PC are holding back gaming. They're not. Developers simply turn off certain things and leave out certain things. Same as on PC right now. If I have a 1080ti I can play pretty much anything on high or ultra. If I have a 760 I am playing most things on low. I would bet every dime I have that is the only thing that will be different between Lockhart and Anaconda.

 

[Sota4077]

Microsoft is pulling another dumbfuck move that developers reportedly hate, Lockhart is a pain in the arse/bum, they said.

Yeah. I am going to need a source on this. And please do not link some single indie developers Twitter post about it. I follow all this pretty closely and I have literally never heard a single developer utter a word about it.

 

[Proelite]

The console that has the worse HW RT will hold back the next generation.

 

[quickwhips]

A little off subject but I find it weird gears 5 not being nominated for any game of the year awards despute reviewing well

Meh. I hardly play any games that win awards and dont put to much thought into reviews.

 

[Max_Po]

This article is crap. It’s just a bunch of rumors without anything hard backing it up.

Not surprising, fan boys touching themselves with left while typing with right hand ... "Trying to Trick SONY" ....

 

[EverythingsOverrated]

The more that I think about Lockheart, the more I think it actually makes sense. It sounds like a a pain in the ass for devs, but if they can deliver a 1080p "next gen" box for $299 that plays the same games at lower settings I can see a whole lot of those filthy casuals jumping on the bandwagon pretty quickly - and MS absolutely needs this thing to perform well out the gate. Would I buy it? Fuck no. But I know a lot of people that would.

 

[TLZ]

XcloudTimdog What's this 12.8 about? Scar or PS5? If you don't mind clarifying?

He was making fun of PS5's "heat issues" apparently. Doesn't matter.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I do believe that to be the case. GPU TFLOPS have more to do with processing graphics than much else. The CPUs have more than enough power to provide the innovations in gameplay that people are looking for such as smarter AI, physics, Quantity of AI on screen at once, high poly meshes, so on and so forth.

Also consider that Xbox One X titles had 4k asset downloads that improved the look of the games at 4K.

Hmmmm bringing back the balanced console type narrative from years yonder when Xbox knew ps4 was more powerful and was doing damage control.


Hmmmm

 

[Bryank75]

He was making fun of PS5's "heat issues" apparently. Doesn't matter.

Ah I see, I guess I was expecting a bit much...

 

[MarkMe2525]

Exactly! I hate it.



No idea how MS doesn't understand this.



Welcome to the "We hate Lockhart Console" club.

Maybe... Just maybe... its you and others that don't understand this. Microsoft is in the know on how games are made and scaled.

 

[Jtibh]

The people not understanding that game engines are scaleable are going to be spouting uneducated garbage until they come out and blow minds.

Please scale red dead 2 or witcher 3 to ps3.
I want to see.
And if you can and with a huge cut back whats the point.
Just look at wii ports of third party games or splinter cell xbox vs ps2.
12tf to 4tf? Actually make it 12tf to 1.4tf since according to xbox games will be playable accross all their systems including base xbox.

 

[bitbydeath]

Please scale red dead 2 or witcher 3 to ps3.

 

[ManaByte]

Wow XcloudTimdog is on GAF? He should post more often.

 

[Gavon West]

In the end of the article he say to take the info with a pinch of salt. No much confidence from him.

Tom Warren (I believe that's his name) very reliable, also backed the specs here. Word around town is these are legit specs so far but, could change.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Please scale red dead 2 or witcher 3 to ps3.
I want to see.
And if you can and with a huge cut back whats the point.
Just look at wii ports of third party games or splinter cell xbox vs ps2.
12tf to 4tf? Actually make it 12tf to 1.4tf since according to xbox games will be playable accross all their systems including base xbox.

RDR2 has a super low mode, that makes it scalable. Which means it could come to switch.. maybe. It uses GTAV's engine, so it's totally possible.


The Witcher 3 is on Switch and the switch is 192 GFLOPS in handheld mode and 384 GFLOPS docked. The Playstation 3 was 192 GFLOPS. So.. it's possible.

Where is your god now?

 

[Gavon West]

Wouldn't 4 scarlett TFs work out about the same as an X? If so then my guess would be that lockhart is a replacement for the one family with some extra ram and cpu oomph, and scarlett is the actual new gen dogs danglies.

Some of you guys are perhaps to raft to be posting or calling yourselves gaming enthusiasts, I swear to god... Smh.

Nearly Everything about Lockhart will have next gen tech. This is the SSD the CPU, which are your faster load times beefy graphics etc. It will definitely be more powerful than the X. But its a 1080p box instead of 4K. Its still gonna be very powerful. Its more so for the casuals and will be priced as such.


As for the ones saying Lockhart will hold back next gen..... fucking christ! Smh. Just step away from the laptop and sell your current systems. You know less than nothing yet, claim to have knowledge from an arm chair position. Lol.

Stahp it!

 

[GlassAwful]

Native 4k is a waste of resources that would have been better spent on making better looking/performing games. Everyone has been saying that since day fucking one.

Anaconda being designed to run Lockhart games at four times the resolution Is the anchor everyone has been talking about. MS will drive its studios and third parties to master games at 1080 for the lowest common denominator.

Could you imagine what a capable studio could render on a 12 TF system at 1080p or even 1440p with a little MSAA?

Well keep on imagining because if MS gets their way they just kneecapped that possibility for an entire generation (except for Sony exclusives if its comparable specs).

 

[Barakov]

Yep, everything is superb on Xbox, MS sources ( others doesn't matter ), games, you even....

Oh. Boy. Here we go.

 

[Psykodad]

That doesn't make any sense. That would be like saying folks with lower end GPU's on their PC are holding back gaming. They're not. Developers simply turn off certain things and leave out certain things. Same as on PC right now. If I have a 1080ti I can play pretty much anything on high or ultra. If I have a 760 I am playing most things on low. I would bet every dime I have that is the only thing that will be different between Lockhart and Anaconda.

I was replying to the question of the other poster directly, who asked why MS would gimp next-gen.

I definitely wouldn't assume that MS is unwilling to pull a stunt like that.

 

[vpance]

Native 4k is a waste of resources that would have been better spent on making better looking/performing games. Everyone has been saying that since day fucking one.

Anaconda being designed to run Lockhart games at four times the resolution Is the anchor everyone has been talking about. MS will drive its studios and third parties to master games at 1080 for the lowest common denominator.

Could you imagine what a capable studio could render on a 12 TF system at 1080p or even 1440p with a little MSAA?

Well keep on imagining because if MS gets their way they just kneecapped that possibility for an entire generation (except for Sony exclusives if its comparable specs).

As much as we don't like the prospect of Lockhart ball and chaining everything, I'm not too worried about it. I think most devs will drop it 2-3 years in. MS won't have the marketshare influence to enforce their policies at that point. In the beginning most will play it safe and make cross gen games anyways, so they'll entertain MS demands for a while.

I suspect MS will eventually allow Lockhart to go to 720p or below or simply market it as a streaming only box to fit your described situation, in order to appease developers.

 

[Stuart360]

So why are devs complaining about RAM shortage in lockhart is the GPU is really a measly 4tf? Wouldn't that be a bigger issue?

1080p vs 4k. I honestly dont get how so many people cant get their heads around this.

 

[Psykodad]

1080p vs 4k. I honestly dont get how so many people cant get their heads around this.

Why would devs complain about that, if it's just a matter of turning off a few settings?

 

[Stuart360]

Why would devs complain about that, if it's just a matter of turning off a few settings?

I was responding to him saying the 4tf would be a bigger problem, As for devs complaining, Its just rumours

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Why would devs complain about that, if it's just a matter of turning off a few settings?

Isn't it strange that devs are going to put all of their time and effort in to making the game max settings on scarlett, which will be, by design, the 'less popular' version of a next-gen Xbox. Only to have all that hard work 'turned-off' because the relatively more popular console will be the lead platform?

It seems, to me, that that would be a huge waste of time and resource.

Why put extra effort in to making something for the niche (next gen launch window) of a niche (scarlett popularity vs lockhart popularity)?

 

[Stuart360]

Isn't it strange that devs are going to put all of their time and effort in to making the game max settings on scarlett, which will be, by design, the 'less popular' version of a next-gen Xbox. Only to have all that hard work 'turned-off' because the relatively more popular console will be the lead platform?

It seems, to me, that that would be a huge waste of time and resource.

Why put extra effort in to making something for the niche (next gen launch window) of a niche (scarlett popularity vs lockhart popularity)?

Lockhart is what you need to run 4k Scarlett games at 1080p. In fact it will be slightly more capable at 1080p than Scarlet will be at 4k as its 4tf vs 12tf. Setting wont need to be changed in most cases, it will simply be 'you put the game in Scarlett and its 4k, you put the game in Lockhart and its 1080p'.
The only thing holding back next gen is 4k, not Lockhart.

 

[Psykodad]

I was responding to him saying the 4tf would be a bigger problem, As for devs complaining, Its just rumours

These specs are also still rumors.