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Inside Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PS5: The Insomniac Technology Breakdown

MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
SlimySnake said:
just goes to show how far ahead Cerny really was. this is an even bigger deal than 8GB GDDR5 which also took a while to become standard on mid to high end PC GPUs because the PS4 only had 5 GB of VRAM available for games and some of it was used for system ram which PC games have an abundance of.

This is almost 11 Zen 2 Cores of performance that they will need dedicated hardware for. Anything is possible, but I think cerny deserves a lot of credit for designing something that is years ahead of anything in the PC space and for only $399.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile PC owners have to wait for RTX I/O and Direct Storage. But even then it will take some time for the public to adopt the technology. It's not like you can flip a switch and obtain all the I/O benefits that the PS5 has. And even after people start to adopt the technology HDDs will still be used by a lot of gamers on PC. Maybe not you're enthusiast's but certainly many average Joe's will be stuck with HDDs. Might take some time for SSDs to become part of the minimum requirements.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Negotiator101 said:
What's the dynamic resolution for mate? It's to reduce GPU workload, don't try to be smart 😁
Click to expand...

Listen dumbass.

My previous PC build was a 3570k paired with a 980ti. It served me tremendously well until I upgraded to a 120hz screen, then all hell broke lose and it struggled to hit 120fps in modern games no matter how much I lowered the settings or resolution. The CPU was pegged at 100% utilisation while the GPU was sat at ~50-60% utilisation. I then upgraded to a new CPU (3900x) and the problem went away.

When you get past the threshold of 60fps the game is far more demanding on the CPU regardless of the resolution in a lot of cases. You can drop it down to 720p but if the CPU is the bottleneck you will see zero improvement in framerate and the GPU will just be sat there chilling.

Dynamic resolution is there for scenarios where you are GPU bound, not CPU bound.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
MasterCornholio said:
Meanwhile PC owners have to wait for RTX I/O and Direct Storage. But even then it will take some time for the public to adopt the technology. It's not like you can flip a switch and obtain all the I/O benefits that the PS5 has. And even after people start to adopt the technology HDDs will still be used by a lot of gamers on PC. Maybe not you're enthusiast's but certainly many average Joe's will be stuck with HDDs. Might take some time for SSDs to become part of the minimum requirements.
Click to expand...
I dont know about that. everyone has an ssd nowadays, even cheap laptops.

devs dont give a fuck about PC average Joes. they will set the minimum requirements based on the ps5 or xbox series s specs.
 
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MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
SlimySnake said:
I dont know about that. everyone has an ssd nowadays, even cheap laptops.

devs dont give a fuck about PC average Joes. they will set the minimum requirements based on the ps5 or xbox series s specs.
Click to expand...

Well yes minimum requirements tend to increase with every console generation. SSDs are certainly a lot more common than before but nobody has any hardware like the RTX I/O GPUs. That's going to take some time for people to adopt.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
GHG said:
Listen dumbass.

My previous PC build was a 3570k paired with a 980ti. It served me tremendously well until I upgraded to a 120hz screen, then all hell broke lose and it struggled to hit 120fps in modern games no matter how much I lowered the settings or resolution. The CPU was pegged at 100% utilisation while the GPU was sat at ~50-60% utilisation. I then upgraded to a new CPU (3900x) and the problem went away.

When you get past the threshold of 60fps the game is far more demanding on the CPU regardless of the resolution in a lot of cases. You can drop it down to 720p but if the CPU is the bottleneck you will see zero improvement in framerate and the GPU will just be sat there chilling.

Dynamic resolution is there for scenarios where you are GPU bound, not CPU bound.
Click to expand...
I think what people dont realize is that devs havent pushed the cpu since crysis in 2007. thats why the cpu loads are in the teens at max in 90% of the games because they were coded around the limitations of the jaguar CPUs.

insomniac is likely taxing the CPU with all those NPCs in every single area, and those spaceships flying in most cities. Yes, the GPU has to render all those things but the cpu also has to do its calculations 4x faster to go from 30 fps to 120 fps. if its already around 60% usage at 30 fps, just dropping the gpu resolution will help with the gpu load but wont help the cpu do its calculations any faster.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Unknown? said:
PC devs don't care about their biggest market?
Click to expand...
i said devs. i am sure pc focused devs who make isometric rpgs will still cater to that market but console focused developers dont care. they will move on.

we already have games with ssds are a requirement.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
SlimySnake said:
i said devs. i am sure pc focused devs who make isometric rpgs will still cater to that market but console focused developers dont care. they will move on.

we already have games with ssds are a requirement.
Click to expand...

I really hope it's a quick transition though. I really don't want slow HDDs to inhibit game design for the next 5 years.
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Negotiator101 said:
What's the dynamic resolution for mate? It's to reduce GPU workload, don't try to be smart 😁
Click to expand...
Will be bookmarking this post....
assurdum said:
Did you cared at least to check the video? They said to have intentionally reduced the GPU works for the 120 Hz output and there was potentially a lot of overhead to max out. That doesn't sounds of bottleneck to me
Click to expand...
I was wondering the exact same thing....

Just watch the video...then have a debate on twitter with the dev about what you dont agree with if you feel really strongly about it.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Corndog said:
Why does any thread involving ps5 game have to devolve in ssd,io, cerny worship?
Click to expand...

You're in the wrong thread buddy.

Why does it irritate you that we talk about technology.

Inside Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PS5: The Insomniac Technology Breakdown​

Click to expand...

Are you one of the ones in denial?

boom smile GIF


If not then this tech talk shouldn't bother you.

Also if you're not interested in the PS5s tech then that's not my problem you're in this thread.

SlimySnake said:
the real question is why does it trigger you so much?
Click to expand...

I guess it's because its the PS5. If it was a tech talk about some other platform he wouldn't be bothered by it. I really don't believe this is the right thread for him.
 
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J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
SlimySnake said:
it's literally the topic of the title. the first 20 minutes of this interview are about the ssd and i.o. we are literally discussing the article. it's also the most impressive thing about the ps5 hardware.

the real question is why does it trigger you so much?
Click to expand...

MasterCornholio said:
You're in the wrong thread buddy.

Why does it irritate you that we talk about technology.



Are you one of the ones in denial?

boom smile GIF


If not then this tech talk shouldn't bother you.

Also if you're not interested in the PS5s tech then that's not my problem you're in this thread.



I guess it's because its the PS5. If it was a tech talk about some other platform he wouldn't be bothered by it. I really don't believe this is the right thread for him.
Click to expand...
I have no words, lol.

For those that obviously arent looking at the video....its an interview with an Insomniac dev. And it touches on some great tech info about the PS5 and Rift Apart.

John asked some great questions.

Just realized the info is in the OP....lmao. Are some ppl literally not even looking at the OP?
 
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MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
jroc74 said:
I have no words, lol.

For those that obviously arent looking at the video....its an interview with an Insomniac dev. And it touches on some great tech info about the PS5 and Rift Apart.

John asked some great questions.
Click to expand...

It's almost like people don't even check the thread title people posting in it. Just something that annoys me as it only derails the thread.

Definitely some pretty interesting questions answered in this interview. Some of us are genuinely interested in seeing how they built the game around the PS5s tech.

What I think was uncalled for was C Corndog Cerny worship comment. I never like seeing those types of things.
 
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Synless

Synless

Member
I posted this in another thread:

I just realized they are using lower resolution on the edges of the screen in performance RT mode. someone who pixel counts could confirm but it’s quite obvious and reminds me of VR games. The image for objects in the center are of higher resolution.

A good chunk of the left and right of the screen are clearly lower res. foreveated rendering I think they call it?

edit* just noticed it’s in Fidelity as well. I’m kind of disappointed by this.
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
Synless said:
I posted this in another thread:

I just realized they are using lower resolution on the edges of the screen in performance RT mode. someone who pixel counts could confirm but it’s quite obvious and reminds me of VR games. The image for objects in the center are of higher resolution.

A good chunk of the left and right of the screen are clearly lower res. foreveated rendering I think they call it?

edit* just noticed it’s in Fidelity as well. I’m kind of disappointed by this.
Click to expand...
Oh I thought that was just chromatic aberration.
 
A

abel empire

Banned
IntentionalPun said:
It's really not latency, it's throughput. I don't know where this forum keeps getting that; throughput is bottlnecked on PC due to the need to go through CPU/system RAM. The latency is still incredibly low.

But DirectStorage removes that.
Click to expand...
Thats not what throughput means, throughput is bandwidth you can have faster nvme drives on pc with faster ram problem is latency and its what you just. Described, the time wasted talking between cpu storage ram and gpu is whats called latency. Throughput is the gb per second your storage or ram can push and thats not the bottleneck.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
abel empire said:
Thats not what throughput means, throughput is bandwidth you can have faster nvme drives on pc with faster ram problem is latency and its what you just. Described, the time wasted talking between cpu storage ram and gpu is whats called latency. Throughput is the gb per second your storage or ram can push and thats not the bottleneck.
Click to expand...
Throughput is not bandwidth lol.. WTF are you talking about? What did I say it means? I know what latency is.. it's really not a big latency improvement, the issue is throughput... which is... bottlenecked (and isn't bandwidth.)
 
A

abel empire

Banned
SlimySnake said:
just goes to show how far ahead Cerny really was. this is an even bigger deal than 8GB GDDR5 which also took a while to become standard on mid to high end PC GPUs because the PS4 only had 5 GB of VRAM available for games and some of it was used for system ram which PC games have an abundance of.

This is almost 11 Zen 2 Cores of performance that they will need dedicated hardware for. Anything is possible, but I think cerny deserves a lot of credit for designing something that is years ahead of anything in the PC space and for only $399.
Click to expand...
Hes been in the industry before I was born and I think most gamers today so he knows computer game engineering, and also working with japanese engineers gives sony a step ahead others the japanese are pioneers in electronics infact theres a big debate between nvidia and sony on who.invetned the gpu. Cause sony where the first ones to name the ps1 graphics processor gpu.

Not to say much but all playstation hardware has always been proprietary and alien from ps2s emotion engine to ps3s cell processor to ps4's hardware decompressor unified 8gb gddr5 to ps5s io, God knows what theyll come with on ps6 I think physics simulation would be the biggest innovation going forward than polygins, textures or data
 
A

abel empire

Banned
IntentionalPun said:
Throughput is not bandwidth lol.. WTF are you talking about? What did I say it means? I know what latency is.. it's really not a big latency improvement, the issue is throughput... which is... bottlenecked (and isn't bandwidth.)
Click to expand...
You cant get faster throughput because of latency as I explained pcs have faster bandwidth than ps5 the ram on pcs is faster the storage is faster problem is the latencies between those devices, cerny explained this in his road to ps5 talk that you can have faster bandwidth but thats not enough because there are alot of latencies you have to remove in order to have full utilization of the nvme bandwidth its why they put so much silicone on the io to remove latencies
e6KV4rF.jpg

oVSdjeX.png

lLbbQtm.jpg
 
C

Corndog

Banned
GHG said:
Listen dumbass.

My previous PC build was a 3570k paired with a 980ti. It served me tremendously well until I upgraded to a 120hz screen, then all hell broke lose and it struggled to hit 120fps in modern games no matter how much I lowered the settings or resolution. The CPU was pegged at 100% utilisation while the GPU was sat at ~50-60% utilisation. I then upgraded to a new CPU (3900x) and the problem went away.

When you get past the threshold of 60fps the game is far more demanding on the CPU regardless of the resolution in a lot of cases. You can drop it down to 720p but if the CPU is the bottleneck you will see zero improvement in framerate and the GPU will just be sat there chilling.

Dynamic resolution is there for scenarios where you are GPU bound, not CPU bound.
Click to expand...
Why would it be cpu bound? Need more insight from the developers as to why it is even with this massive jump in cpu power.
 
C

Corndog

Banned
abel empire said:
You cant get faster throughput because of latency as I explained pcs have faster bandwidth than ps5 the ram on pcs is faster the storage is faster problem is the latencies between those devices, cerny explained this in his road to ps5 talk that you can have faster bandwidth but thats not enough because there are alot of latencies you have to remove in order to have full utilization of the nvme bandwidth its why they put so much silicone on the io to remove latencies
e6KV4rF.jpg

oVSdjeX.png

lLbbQtm.jpg
Click to expand...
Why do they need silicone?
 
C

Corndog

Banned
Synless said:
I posted this in another thread:

I just realized they are using lower resolution on the edges of the screen in performance RT mode. someone who pixel counts could confirm but it’s quite obvious and reminds me of VR games. The image for objects in the center are of higher resolution.

A good chunk of the left and right of the screen are clearly lower res. foreveated rendering I think they call it?

edit* just noticed it’s in Fidelity as well. I’m kind of disappointed by this.
Click to expand...
Do you have a screen shot? Sorry so many posts in a row.
 
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GHG

GHG

Member
Corndog said:
Why would it be cpu bound? Need more insight from the developers as to why it is even with this massive jump in cpu power.
Click to expand...

Did you even read my post before replying to it?

The scenario(s) when something becomes CPU bound is already explained. This is consistent across pretty much all games, hence why CPU benchmarks for gaming are typically conducted under 720p.
 
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ratburger

ratburger

Member
Md Ray said:
Yeah, it makes sense. When Zen 2 launched, AMD were getting better at gaming perf but were still catching up with Intel's best at that time. While it's a dramatic improvement over Jaguar, there was still room for improvement. That's where Zen 3 comes in.

But I'd say Zen 2 is still very potent and will age just fine over time.
Click to expand...

Zen2 desktop chips aren't bad, they're only like 10% slower than Skylake in terms of single-threaded performance. However, the consoles aren't using the desktop chips, but the mobile ones. Hence, only half the L3 cache per CCX, which is a 15% performance hit right there. Furthermore, they're saddled with GDDR6, which has twice the latency of regular DDR4 (and close to 3x that of hand-tuned Samsung B-die @ 55ns). So not only are they going to have a lot more cache misses than a desktop Zen2 CPU, they're going to be waiting on the RAM much longer each time. And games, with their branch-heavy workloads, produce a lot of those. Lastly, the PS5 CPU's max frequency is 3.5GHz versus somewhere between 4.2 and 4.5GHz for most of Zen2's desktop lineup.

All in, you're looking at roughly half the single-threaded performance of the PS5 CPU (and the Series X) compared to a Zen2 CPU in a gaming rig.
 
CamHostage

CamHostage

Member
SlimySnake said:
I dont know about that. everyone has an ssd nowadays, even cheap laptops.
Click to expand...

What, that's not true? Cheap laptops have eMMCs, and although at the level we're talking to play this quality of gaming you're going to want a SSD in your tower, people caring for space & price over speed still run SATA HDDs.

I never looked to see what DirectStorage can do for a HDD (it should still be a factor it looks like?) but HDDs will continue to be a market factor unless SSD per-GB price plummets and capacity increases greatly... UNLESS something comes along that proves SSDs are the killer app'accessory for PC play, and these consoles are starting to do that.
 
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TrebleShot

TrebleShot

Member
Genuine question here for you PC lot.

is it possible to build a PC that would be able to run R+C with all the teleporting and warping at 60fps with ray tracing at 1440p?

also to take it a step further how about in native 4K bells and whistles in 60fps??

is there an SSD with integration that could pull it off? Or is this also a very rare game that is only possible on PS5 right now?
 
Mister Wolf

Mister Wolf

Member
TrebleShot said:
Genuine question here for you PC lot.

is it possible to build a PC that would be able to run R+C with all the teleporting and warping at 60fps with ray tracing at 1440p?

also to take it a step further how about in native 4K bells and whistles in 60fps??

is there an SSD with integration that could pull it off? Or is this also a very rare game that is only possible on PS5 right now?
Click to expand...

Sure. Computer motherboards support up to 128GB of DDR4 RAM. Worst case scenario the whole game could be loaded into RAM but I doubt that would need to happen.
 
skit_data

skit_data

Member
Mister Wolf said:
Sure. Computer motherboards support up to 128GB of DDR4 RAM. Worst case scenario the whole game could be loaded into RAM but I doubt that would need to happen.
Click to expand...
Read somewhere that this game would take up nearly 200GB space uncompressed. If tht is indeed the case not even 128GB of RAM would be enough. Would a PC be able to decompress it fast enough to provide a seamless experience without dedicated hardware decompression?

Maybe, but it probably take a lot from the CPU doing so.
 
Mister Wolf

Mister Wolf

Member
skit_data said:
Read somewhere that this game would take up nearly 200GB space uncompressed. If tht is indeed the case not even 128GB of RAM would be enough. Would a PC be able to decompress it fast enough to provide a seamless experience without dedicated hardware decompression?

Maybe, but it probably take a lot from the CPU doing so.
Click to expand...

Why would it need to be fully uncompressed on PC?
 
skit_data

skit_data

Member
Mister Wolf said:
Why would it need to be fully uncompressed on PC?
Click to expand...
I guess it could be compressed but it would probably require quite a lot of CPU juice to constantly decompress it on the fly, but I guess it possibly could work if you have a very good CPU.
It would work a lot better in upcoming GPUs with dedicated decompressors.
 
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