• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

In this day and age, why would anybody want to watch a Hollywood movie with a female lead?

Lupingosei

Banned
Hollywood is so entrenched in their progressive ideology, that their movies are just boring and dull.

A movie with a female lead will never be exciting. She will never lose, never grow, never need to achieve anything, because she is perfect from the beginning. The live-action Mulan, Harley Quinn, or the new Star Wars trilogy were the precursors of this. Even worse Wanda or Carly were straight-up villains, but they still were somehow the good guys.

Even in the hypermasculine movies of the ’80s or nerd cult movies, they hate so much nowadays, the hero could lose. A woman in a movie today never has any danger or obstacle to fear, because she is already perfect. Ghostbusters 2016 is a great example, it took them 10 seconds to fix a problem with their equipment when they first tested it. While in the original they got slimed, destroyed half of a hotel, and almost killed a maid.

Again even those testosterone-filled movies like Conan, Predator or Rambo the hero could lose. Lose his friends, partners, family. One of the greatest movie series of all time, the Rocky movies were all about losing and getting up again. He lost the big fight in the first movie, lost against Clubber Lang, lost his coach and father figure, lost his friend, lost his fortune, his wife, and his son. But he never gave up, that is why people liked the movies, that is why the Rocky theme still has this effect.

It is strange, that Hollywood is more concerned to appease the Twitter maniacs, than producing a good movie. Women used to be heroes, Ripley was a hero because she was not this almighty fighting machine, but because she was clever and had a reason to fight. Same for Sarah Conner. The bride was almost killed by that slob Budd and had to learn and train to become what she was in the end. She also needed help from others to achieve her goal.

Would we get a movie today, in which the female protagonist gets shot into the chest with a shotgun by some hillbilly killer working as a bouncer in a strip club? Or would she have to learn from an abusive master, who hates women, especially American women? People like Tarantino are on their way out of Hollywood. This is probably for the better when even movies like in the Heights are not diverse and progressive enough.

And this will only get worse. American comics already demonstrated, if the hero is part of a minority group, he/she/they will never lose, never progress, never make any mistakes and never be wrong.
 

nush

Gold Member
It is strange, that Hollywood is more concerned to appease the Twitter maniacs, than producing a good movie. Women used to be heroes, Ripley was a hero because she was not this almighty fighting machine, but because she was clever and had a reason to fight. Same for Sarah Conner. The bride was almost killed by that slob Budd and had to learn and train to become what she was in the end. She also needed help from others to achieve her goal.

How could you leave out my girl Geena?



Hidden gem action movie, watch it if you have the chance.
 

Lupingosei

Banned
How could you leave out my girl Geena?

Hidden gem action movie, watch it if you have the chance.
I know the movie, I wanted to bring it up as an example, but it was already so long, that a lot of people would not read it.

But you are right, great movie, great example.
 
People will look at the title and hate on it but there is a discussion to be had here. To me, the big problem is that Hollywood is too afraid to write interesting female characters. They make them one-dimensional, afterall they all have to be strong and brave and smart. All those Disney princesses for example - interchangeable.
 

jason10mm

Member
It's not all like that. There is Peppermint, for example, with Jennifer Gardner. It's basically a generic male action film, just happens to have a woman in it.

But a big part of the problem, I think, is the relative youth of females that can be leading ladies of the type you are referring to. They are often in their 20' to mid 30s versus male stars well into their 50s. So the men have more experience, gravitas, and past legacy to draw on. The women get a few films at most before they get relegated to wife/mother roles.

Its compounded when the female led film gets a female director and writer, both of whom might be less experienced than the team assembled for a big male starring film. High quality females in these roles exist, sure, but there are far fewer of them and they can't be involved In everything.
 

MaestroMike

Gold Member
i, tonya was pretty dope and it came out 4 years ago. personally i love seeing loss and seeing characters absolutely crushed and destroyed and continue fighting not interesting if they're so dam invincible. split was pretty sweet as well and that came out 2016. there's some good ones with female leads just gotta look. sicario (2015) was nice as well lol
 
Last edited:

jason10mm

Member
That first Underworld film is almost TWENTY years old! Contemplate this on the tree of woe....



This film is about as far from Underworld as we are!
 

Mistake

Member
As Raven117 said, the writing is just shit. The op isn't wrong for being upset with them pushing their personal agendas over quality content though. I haven't enjoyed anything out of hollywood since marvel and dc junk became more mainstream. If you've seen one, you've seen them all.
 

Pejo

Member
Your issue is with what passes for writing nowadays. Not who the protagonist is.
Yea this is my takeaway too. The actresses are fine, they're just doing the part they're hired for. Writing for comedy has been AWFUL since about 5 years ago. Writing for action/adventure does seem to exhibit the problems the OP eluded to, with being unable to paint the protags as anything but constant winners.

The thing that annoys me about female led action movies is that they're just writing men. I liked movies where a woman doesn't have to depend on mastering every martial art and have a whole list of quips to show that she's a strong person and a good character. We haven't gotten anything like that in a long while.

Then there's always this classic which is a joke obviously, but it brings up a good point.
 

NoviDon

Member
Well I agree there is alot more garbage to sift through in mainstream entertainment to get to the good stuff. There is alot of political posing going on to try and woo certain segments of the viewership, instead of focusing on making the best work possible. So It takes alot of effort to find projects focused on craftsmanship that will reach the standards I need met. Thats why I diversify my hobbies as much as possible. Like with movies and tv its a globalized market now there are subtitles for all the popular series'. So I watch stuff from all over the world and watch indie moves as well so I can have acess to a wide range of quality content and the well never runs dry and its never repetitive.
 

Raven117

Member
The thing that annoys me about female led action movies is that they're just writing men.
This is my issue too. I mean, it’s not an “issue” but I would absolutely love to see a movie where the women’s “hero” arc reflects something that is feminine (in the Carl Jung sense).

ripley, Sarah Conner (already been discussed), are awesome examples of this. But I’d love to see a deep dive into what a female’s story arc would look like (that’s not just writing men).

The subtext of writing infallible hero’s is that it doesn’t ring true in your subconscious. I want a hero that pulls and develops on their own “strengths” (or, powerful and developed BECAUSE they were women. Not in spite.)

It really does have little to do with a women protagonist. They just need to write them (and all hero’s) better. But hey, you aren’t pulling in billions of dollars a year on family entertainment by making a Virginia wolf super hero.
 
Last edited:

Lupingosei

Banned
Your issue is with what passes for writing nowadays. Not who the protagonist is.
A man somehow is still allowed to lose and to grow from lost and grief. That is what makes movies interesting and what makes characters relatable. Rambo in first blood was not such an icon, because he was a killer, but because people could identify with this soldier tossed away by society.

But a female lead can never do that, because she is not allowed to lose, which would mean she is weak. We only have strong women in Hollywood. So she also can never lose against a man. Which takes away the stakes, the drama and the opportunity for growth. That is why not even girls bought Rey dolls, because she was boring. She did not inspire anybody.

That is why Stan Lee made Spiderman, a superhero with problems. The whole silver age was about that. Relatable heroes, which made comics the success they were. But the female hero and the minority hero can't have problems, because in the mind of Hollywood and the creators and more importantly Twitter, that would make them look weak. When Black Widow once talked about her past with Bruce Banner, they went crazy.
 

Whitecrow

Gold Member
Yeah, Hollywood didnt understand shit.

Boys usually love action movies, and one franchise that had lot of success in the female audience was 50 shades of Grey.
I leave it there and let everyone bring their conclusions.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
This thread wins for stupidest thing I’ve read today and that’s saying a lot because I frequent Twitter.

Please don’t go full incel and kill a bunch of women.
judging tom cruise GIF


Op you have a point as when a hero or heroine is too perfect they become unrelatable to the audience. You do not get invested in a story without struggle. Without the lows there can be no highs. The story is just flat. I think a lot of modern films are suffering from this. A lot of classic movies follow a heroes journey trajectory when a lot of modern movies tend to not show that path and end up placing the viewer at a point where the hero is at their peak
 
Last edited:

MilkyJoe

Member

In this day and age, why would anybody want to watch a Hollywood movie with a female lead?​


Judging by box office numbers the answers are they wouldn't. They are movies made without an audience. Women generally don't watch Terminator movies, for example, and men have no interest in watching one.
 

Scotty W

Member
If you are talking about action movies, you gotta have the hero’s journey. But this arc requires that the hero or heroine have flaws. But that is forbidden by modern politics- you cannot grow if you are already perfect.

Wonder Woman is a good example. She simply needs to lose patience with men so that she can steamroll them. So the film cannot do any realistic character analysis, because the men are simplified beyond recognition, and Wonder Woman is at a point of perfection qualitatively beyond what any human can reach.
 

Lupingosei

Banned
People will look at the title and hate on it but there is a discussion to be had here. To me, the big problem is that Hollywood is too afraid to write interesting female characters. They make them one-dimensional, afterall they all have to be strong and brave and smart. All those Disney princesses for example - interchangeable.
Mulan is a great example of how a Disney princess works. She was not the superhero from the live-action version, she had to struggle, fight with her emotions, and had to use her mind because she had not the brute strength to fight against the man. In the live-action version, she was just a Jedi and she decided when to use her superpower. In the original, because she was able to do all of it, she was able to earn the respect of others and that is why the scene, when everybody bowed to her had such a huge impact. It felt earned and everybody in the audience was cheering for her.
 
You gotta be kidding me, OP:



[edit] Having read the rest of your post, I now see that your real issue is with the writing in movies NOW, rather than watching moves now. But then again, good movies in general aren't very common lately. I sort of get your point, even though I wouldn't go quite as far as you did.
 
Last edited:

nush

Gold Member
I'd love to watch this again with 2021 eyes. As I remember there was much pearl clutching at the time. Basically as I remember it was gender swapped Death Wish.

 

Ulysses 31

Member
Hollywood is so entrenched in their progressive ideology, that their movies are just boring and dull.

A movie with a female lead will never be exciting. She will never lose, never grow, never need to achieve anything, because she is perfect from the beginning. The live-action Mulan, Harley Quinn, or the new Star Wars trilogy were the precursors of this. Even worse Wanda or Carly were straight-up villains, but they still were somehow the good guys.

Even in the hypermasculine movies of the ’80s or nerd cult movies, they hate so much nowadays, the hero could lose. A woman in a movie today never has any danger or obstacle to fear, because she is already perfect. Ghostbusters 2016 is a great example, it took them 10 seconds to fix a problem with their equipment when they first tested it. While in the original they got slimed, destroyed half of a hotel, and almost killed a maid.

Again even those testosterone-filled movies like Conan, Predator or Rambo the hero could lose. Lose his friends, partners, family. One of the greatest movie series of all time, the Rocky movies were all about losing and getting up again. He lost the big fight in the first movie, lost against Clubber Lang, lost his coach and father figure, lost his friend, lost his fortune, his wife, and his son. But he never gave up, that is why people liked the movies, that is why the Rocky theme still has this effect.

It is strange, that Hollywood is more concerned to appease the Twitter maniacs, than producing a good movie. Women used to be heroes, Ripley was a hero because she was not this almighty fighting machine, but because she was clever and had a reason to fight. Same for Sarah Conner. The bride was almost killed by that slob Budd and had to learn and train to become what she was in the end. She also needed help from others to achieve her goal.

Would we get a movie today, in which the female protagonist gets shot into the chest with a shotgun by some hillbilly killer working as a bouncer in a strip club? Or would she have to learn from an abusive master, who hates women, especially American women? People like Tarantino are on their way out of Hollywood. This is probably for the better when even movies like in the Heights are not diverse and progressive enough.

And this will only get worse. American comics already demonstrated, if the hero is part of a minority group, he/she/they will never lose, never progress, never make any mistakes and never be wrong.
Not blindly no, I may check other work of the writers and directors to see if they were being activists.

If the movie premise sounds interesting enough, I'll probably check it out.
 
Battle Angel Alita is based on a 30-year-old manga and was in development hell for almost 15 years.

It does not represent present-day Hollywood.
Sure, but you gotta admit they still release the movie as it is, and they still do so recently. They could have changed anything about that story, and I'm sure some things did change.
 

Irobot82

Member
If the movie has a female lead and she is amazing/powerful/whatever because she is female. No.

If the movie has a badass lead character who struglles/goes through adversity/becomes triumphant/whatever and happens to be female. Fuck yeah.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Bad thread title, too generic.

Strong women have always been a thing. Hollywood has a long tradition of strong women leading or co-leading. And they never felt out of place. You’d think, “this woman is a great person“, and your male brain wouldn’t even think about wanting to fuck her because you were genuinely interested in her act. These women didn’t need to be superheroes, or male wannabes. Ripley and Sarah Connor are relatively new characters - women before that could be amazing characters in a dress and high heels.

Now they pick stupidly gorgeous women, write absolutely lame roles for them, and then blame you for focusing on their T&A while they do absolutely nothing relevant on screen except flashing their T&A from the movie’s poster before the film even starts reeling.
 
Top Bottom