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I worry for Sony's commitment to PSVR2.

Crayon

Member
That list up there^^^
edit: "up there" on the last page, lol.

The ps5 launch had demon's souls. Extraordinary game. PSVR2 has GT7. Funny to compare those two. They are both way up on pedestals. Like alyx, actually. I'll call that a tie.

Then what next on ps5? asscreed, colladoody, WRC9, Miles&Remaster, sackboy, astrobot, bugsnax, maneater, fortnite, etc. These are big names and good games and everything but we've played this stuff or at least something like it for many years. For people who like vr, who are looking for the next step, that psvr2 lineup is waaaaaay more exciting.
 
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I’m more convinced of their commitment this time around.

In their first party we know that they have:
- FireSprite
- Insomniac
- Team Asobi
- London Studio

who make good VR games.

And they’ve continued to built on existing relationships with other game makers (AAA and indies) to provide a wider range of content.

I do think they need a couple more studios to help flesh out things, but then again we don’t know what their plans are for the metaverse.
 
Sometimes Vita is used as an example of something. Products are produced and not always have sufficient success. The only way to never face a failure is not doing anything. I'm surprised how people are more willing to blame who tries rather than who doesn't do nothing. Human nature is often embarassingly illogical.
There’s a product for those people, it’s called an Xbox Series X/S.
 

VivaR3V

Neo Member
I’m more convinced of their commitment this time around.

In their first party we know that they have:
- FireSprite
- Insomniac
- Team Asobi
- London Studio

who make good VR games.

And they’ve continued to built on existing relationships with other game makers (AAA and indies) to provide a wider range of content.

I do think they need a couple more studios to help flesh out things, but then again we don’t know what their plans are for the metaverse.

Sony are giving the impression that this thing is going to snowball by the number of games announced, developers onboard. But the truth is that this is all factored in for launch, the early push. It’s further down the line, are developers really going to put the same level of effort in future games, or will it just end up being sub par experiences as before. I just can’t see the long term serious commitment, because it’s a loss leader. Can Sony afford to prop up these developers endlessly? Look at Meta and how much they are losing right now, but have to plough on because there’s value in being the leader later down the line. But the risks are super high. There’s no way Sony can compete with that, nor any small or large developers making content exclusively for one system. These devs can only succeed if their title is on every VR platform.. in which case, why would anyone choose Sony? The ease of use is what most will go for and that’s over on Meta,
 
Sony’s first party is almost exclusively third-person games, which is the worst kind of perspective to translate to a VR version.

So it might be time for another Killzone or some first person RPG that can be awesome for both regular and VR users (like RE7 and Village!).
 

Ar¢tos

Member
I’m more convinced of their commitment this time around.

In their first party we know that they have:
- FireSprite
- Insomniac
- Team Asobi
- London Studio

who make good VR games.

And they’ve continued to built on existing relationships with other game makers (AAA and indies) to provide a wider range of content.

I do think they need a couple more studios to help flesh out things, but then again we don’t know what their plans are for the metaverse.
London Studio is dead (moved to GaaS games, most likely mobile, so same thing as dead).
 

Rudius

Member
And you're cherry picking the fact that you need a high end PC to experience "damn-near the highest quality VR around". So that's going to set you back another $1500 minimum in addition to the $400 for a Quest 2.

Nearly double the cost of PS5 +PSVR2.

Sony doesn't need to justify squat. Their PSVR2 headset is aimed specifically for PS5 owners mostly, with VR inquisitive people being an exception. But certainly those that are only interested in High End VR (and not PS5) it's STILL CHEAPER than PC to go with Sony
A 1500 dollars PC will perform worse than a PS5 in VR due to the lack of eye-tracking and dynamic foveated rendering. To brute force the same results you need a top level machine.
 
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Fbh

Member
Yeah combined with the price this is one of the main reasons I'll wait to get one.

Sony doesn't have the best track record supporting their "non main console" devices and for the same price as the console I'd need to see some solid support moving forward for it to be worth it
 

Ar¢tos

Member
I think it’s more than likely they’ve staffed up the fantasy game but still work on VR. That team had specialists that just wouldn’t transfer over to GAAS.
They say they are working in one game, an online co-op shooter, Sony's new "Destiny" (weird, since Sony bought Bungie...).
 
As a PSVR1 and Quest 2/PCVR user for 5 years, and after seeing the launch lineup, I feel pretty underwhelmed, but not surprised: Almost everything is already available on PSVR1/Quest/PC. The standouts are obviously Sony's first party stuff like Horizon, GT7's VR update and Village, which if not for Sony's funding it wouldn't even exist.

What worries me is that, aside the aforementioned GT7 and Village, it seems that the hybrid game talk was just that. To be fair, Sony never officially has talked about that, it just was something some of us heard from PSVR Without Parole where some devs talked to them about Sony's PSVR2 plans. But porting existing games, and making their future games playable in VR would bolster the library and give us AAA VR games without much relative effort. It sounded plausible.

I seriously believed the reason GTAV was ported to PS5 was because it would have a VR mode ready for PSVR2's launch, same thing with The Last of Us Part 1 remake,

There's tons of stuff ready for that like Returnal, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Destiny 2... Not to mention upcoming games like Spider-Man 2. If that last one isn't a hybrid game I'll lose all faith.

We have seen this every time: Third parties are not going to bother if they don't see Sony putting in their A game, I wanna see Sega, Namco, Capcom, Platinum Games, Square-Enix really on board or else it's going to be indies all over again. Don't get me wrong I love indies, but I recognize most only play the big, popular stuff, and if that stuff isn't coming, the market is not going to expand.
The main deal breaker about PSVR is, it isn't wireless and Backwards Compatibility. If I purchase a VR headset for PC, I don't need to wait for games to become VR Compatible, thanks to mods and Indies.
 

drezz

Member
The lack of PSVR2 Alyx is proof alone there not taking this seriously.
Sony would love to have Alyx on PSVR2, but it's Valve's game, they don't have too port anything.

Valve is however helping a bunch of devs with their VR games on Steam; financially, in order too push VR forward, and because of that... I think... maybe... just maaaybe, they would port over Alyx to PSVR2 in order to help push VR as a whole forward and too the masses.

But apart from that... I dont see any other reason why Valve would do it.
And since we have not heard anything about it, then A) Its not coming at all. Or B) Coming later, post launch.
I'd say november time, if they port it... But I'm 50/50 on the situation.

Could also say I already finished Alyx on PCVR;Quest 2 wireless on a beefy pc, and played for 16 hours(None of the mods doh!)
It's a very good game, and it would be AMAZING for people playing VR for the first time(like I did) and experience the wonders of VR in the ways Valve let's us in Alyx.
But it is still just 16 hours... Its not a make it or break it game for Sony or PSVR2.
We still need NEW games made for VR and Hybrid combination games.
Games such as GTA6 or Cod/Warzone2(Dare I even say Far Cry 7?) in VR could do just as much good as Alyx, but the amount of hours I could spend in thoose games could dwarf the hour count in Alyx.
imho.
 

JLB

Banned
It's a $550 device that needs a $500 console to work. Obviously they're not going to throw all their resources at it and make VR modes for all the games you listed.

PSVR2 has a good selection of launch window titles.

You might want to see "Sega, Namco, Capcom, Platinum Games, Square-Enix really on board" but that time isn't yet for VR and it doesn't matter what Sony does it won't change that.

We're still a while off most developers putting real effort into releasing VR content. Focusing more on VR at the expense of traditional gaming would be foolish.

Also a wired option that turn off a big portion of that market, specially after Quest.
 

Ronin_7

Banned
VR isn't replacing traditional gaming, VR is a complement but Sony should have alot of software planned for it.

Just as Cloud it's just a complement, traditional gaming will always be 👑 no matter what anyone says to you.

By traditional = Download & Play on your devices.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Proof of this? they are making a GaaS game )for the PS5), yeh, but proof they aren't working on other things also?

In this interview nothing suggests that they have more than one team (from the answers its logical to assume only one team) and they clearly say they are not doing anything for VR at the moment (the team).
 

JLB

Banned
Delusional post.

Devs couldn't care less if it's wired or wireless, the way you program these games is basically the same apart APIs.
Kermit GIF

Who is talking about devs? Im talking about users.
 

midnightAI

Member

In this interview nothing suggests that they have more than one team (from the answers its logical to assume only one team) and they clearly say they are not doing anything for VR at the moment (the team).
Ok, so not working on anything VR 'at the moment' and are working on a PS5 exclusive and so are not dead, gotcha (and where did you get mobile from?)
 

drezz

Member
Proof of this? they are making a GaaS game (for the PS5), yeh, but proof they aren't working on other things also?
They said they are moving away from VR and the new project would be a first away from eyetoy, move, vr (something along these lines) in a tweet, I cant find it.

However Im hopefull they already have made ports and will feed them out as time progress.
They were very quick too patch the PS5 version too max LOD at all times and some stuff with PS5's launch... so maybe they spent the last 1 and a half years doing the porting and then moved on?
 
The main deal breaker about PSVR is, it isn't wireless and Backwards Compatibility. If I purchase a VR headset for PC, I don't need to wait for games to become VR Compatible, thanks to mods and Indies.
It’s wired for a reason. If you don’t mind about specs like Quest 2 it works fine wireless. But when you need to render a minimum of 90fps stable and need to eye track 240 times a second without a single failure I guess wireless just doesn’t cut it yet. Any minor interference in the air and your headset won’t work properly.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Ok, so not working on anything VR 'at the moment' and are working on a PS5 exclusive and so are not dead, gotcha (and where did you get mobile from?)
I didn't, but since a lot of gaas is mobile, I don't remove it as a possibility for the future.
 

midnightAI

Member
I didn't, but since a lot of gaas is mobile, I don't remove it as a possibility for the future.
Doubtful, if you are making a game as a mobile GaaS you have to design it like that from the very beginning, meaning a PS4 would also be powerful enough to run it, but its a PS5 exclusive so I'd say its highly likely it wont be on mobile
 

midnightAI

Member
They said they are moving away from VR and the new project would be a first away from eyetoy, move, vr (something along these lines) in a tweet, I cant find it.

However Im hopefull they already have made ports and will feed them out as time progress.
They were very quick too patch the PS5 version too max LOD at all times and some stuff with PS5's launch... so maybe they spent the last 1 and a half years doing the porting and then moved on?
The chances are it was more likely tha they meant they are moving away from VR for their next game rather than moving away from VR entirely, but we'll see. But with their VR experience and the employees they have I'd say this isnt the last we'll hear of them regarding VR (and yeh, they'll probably update Blood and Truth to PSVR2, should be relatively simple thing to do but they would have to remove the standard controller support for it as DualSense can't be tracked in VR, but thats not a biggie, that was just handy because the move controllers were so poor)
 

Wulfer

Member
Kinect says hello and it was $100 more to the added price. No games = No device development = dead expensive addon! MS just trashed their VR / AR development, Nintendo has no interest as they just want to do consoles. This leaves Sony to support this albatross and that makes it hard for 3rd parties to bite and develop new games for a single platform. Again no ground breaking games equal no interest equal dead addon aka same as Kinect. Kinect was a moving device that failed to get the user to move. VR is another world experience that requires new worlds, who's going to go out on a limb and build them, not 3rd parties!
 
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Wonko_C

Member
What...? Spider-Man 2 as a VR game? Do you wanna be throwing your guts out every 2 minutes? I think the concern is not justified, more than 30 games on launch is extremely good. Several first party studios have VR games as main projects which shows already a huge commitment from Sony on this.
But if you are unsure are you not forced to buy on launch and you can wait a year and evaluate after.
I have my VR legs, Spider-Man 2 in VR would be just fine. There are already games like Yupitegrad, Swarm and Windlands 1 & 2 so it's not like it hasn't been done before.
 

midnightAI

Member
Kinect says hello and it was $100 more to the added price. No games = No device development = dead expensive addon! MS just trashed their VR / AR development, Nintendo has no interest as they just want to do consoles. This leaves Sony to support this albatross and that makes it hard for 3rd parties to bite and develop new games for a single platform. Again no ground breaking games equal no interest equal dead addon aka same as Kinect. Kinect was a moving device that failed to get the user to move. VR is another world experience that requires new worlds, who's going to go out on a limb and build them, not 3rd parties!
It isnt a single platform though, are you forgetting Steam/PC VR?
 

Wulfer

Member
It isnt a single platform though, are you forgetting Steam/PC VR?
So, is Sony allowing their exclusives on Steam and PC VR now? They don't like to do that too much on consoles. VR isn't a console or PC it's a different animal all together.
 
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midnightAI

Member
So, is Sony allowing their exclusives on Steam and PC VR now? They don't like to do that too much on consoles. VR isn't a console or PC it's a different animal all together.
Huh? you said third parties wont develop for PSVR2 because its a single platform, VR itself isnt a single platform, so third parties will develop games that work on Steam/PC VR AND PSVR2.

Sony will support it because its their platform, they already are with Horizon and GT7.
 

Wonko_C

Member
People whine about lack of back compatibility. Developers do proper upgrades of PSVR titles, most of times for free. People whine about PSVR 2 having the same titles of PSVR 1.

People whine about PSVR 2 being into the closed console environment and being not open to the vast catalogue of (mostly mediocre) titles on PC. Developers do PSVR 2 versions of PC titles, often with significant improvements. People whine that many PSVR 2 titles are already avaliable on PC.

People whine that there's no GT7 VR mode, and that they would order it if announched. GT7 VR mode is announced, and now they will order it when Alyx will be announced (which they have never played, but people say it's the best VR game, so they repeat it like retards). After Alyx will be announched, I'm curious to see what will be the next whining.

VR is a niche market which is not able to be significantly profitable (or even at a loss), and yet there are several developers who are trying to be the pioneers building the market, instead of some who are simply able to buy the work done by others. To call "underwelming" a launch which has more titles that many console launches, big and small, is very disrespectful towards all those are betting much, and some everything, on the titles coming out. That's acting like a spoiled brat.
We have never known in advance which titles would come out during a generation of a console. It's no different here. But at least it's clear that there have been lots of study, refinements and investments on PSVR 2 hardware, to make possible to have a "future proof" VR on console that matches high end PC VR, and for a MUCH lower price. Do you ever realize how impressive this is compared to what usually is needed to have the same quality elsewhere? People don't realize that the reason foveated rendering only works on PSVR 2 at the moment is because it requires a pipeline of input and rendering with VERY strict time windows (to be able to use foveated rendering with a frame rate of 120 fps, AT LEAST 240 eye samples per second are needed, in order to send the position of the eye ALWAYS before the GPU starts to render the frame - the latency is very small), and PS5 was engineered to be able to do so with PSVR 2 from the start. Who else did something like that? Nobody. It seems like a serious commitment, to me. Let's hope Jimbo doesn't ruin everything (the project was not his own).

I'm also looking forward to know if the story of "hybrid games" will turn out to be true and to be applied to at least the majority of the games. To me, that would make the difference from a huge success to a moderate success. One day, VR will have its own big games developed around it, but for now, VR to shine the most needs hybrid games like RE8, GT7 or others, capable to offer unparalleled immersion and interaction in high quality games. So I'm also worried in waiting.
But please, enough with this "underwelming" story: from hardware to software, nobody else in the market showed as much commitment and real investment than Sony, on high end VR. What's the point to have a 5000 dollars headset, if there's no proper software to take advantage from it? Or to need thousands of dollars of GPU to be able to run a game with high detail on it? Making the number of geared gamers so small that basically no single developer would spoend time and money to develop something at that level?
What's the point of hoping that VR games will evolve with standalone VR units, if they push the market towards casual gaming and low end engines?

PSVR 2 is not a safe bet: it's a serious attempt for high end VR gaming to rise again, after the diffusion of standalone Quest 2 pushed the market towards low specs casual motion gaming (the VR Wii counterpart, in short).


So, is it possible to stop the useless whining and just wait and see? If money is a problem, just don't buy it and wait. To me, there are already several games in the first year that could last years for me, and I suspect that Behemoth will be my kind of game, after seeing the work of Skydance on The Saint and Sinners series. Even if the dream of big hybrid games will not come to reality, I'm more than sure that there will be plenty of wonder. So, why the fuck should we look to what could not be, instead to what we already know will be? Could we just enjoy the wonders we have, instead of whining on what we don't even know we will not have?
Money is not the issue, it's the legit concern that Sony will not do a PSVR3 after this if it doesn't perform well, and the blame would be entirely on them.

I've been a staunch supporter of VR and I don't want the medium to die out, it's just that.
 
Very well. Bookmarked.

I mean, I don't know how you're going to bookmark my post and say "told you so!".

Half Life Alyx is great and I'd love to have it on PSVR2, but it's not some VR title that stands so far out from the rest. There are many people that think RE7 is the best VR game on the market, or AstroBot, or Song in the Smoke, or Saints and Sinners...

Personal taste and all that. But certainly Sony has a Half Life Alyx like production with Horizon: CoTM - where you prefer it or not it has stunning visuals and tons of interactivity and will set a VR benchmark in certain areas. Similarly, GT7 is an entire game in VR of a marquee series. That's massive. And RE8 (which will be massively better than the PC mod per Ian Higton) is better looking in VR than the flat screen.
 
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ZoukGalaxy

Member
Oh BS, it's launching with a bunch of redundant titles and things that have been on PC for ages.
Consoles =/= PC

That's a different market and that's the thing you don't seem to get.
Think About It GIF by Identity

They're trying to expand the market,.
 
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Oh BS, it's launching with a bunch of redundant titles and things that have been on PC for ages.
Then it’s still launch games, even if they’re old for you. It’s just a fact sheet of what games will be available on the platform, not how old they are and if they were already released before.
 

AGRacing

Member
He's right. At half the hardware price you can be (sort of) forgiven for a lack of AAA. But at this hardware price point the smart strategy is to wait and see what's coming next. If they had announced premium stuff for this holiday as well I'd have bought one. As it stands now, and I've said this before... It is officially the first piece of Sony hardware that I am NOT buying at launch. For me that is a pretty big deal.
 

ABnormal

Member
Money is not the issue, it's the legit concern that Sony will not do a PSVR3 after this if it doesn't perform well, and the blame would be entirely on them.

I've been a staunch supporter of VR and I don't want the medium to die out, it's just that.
Of course. But who's interested on low-end VR? If Sony decided to push for low-end VR, I would not be even interested. So it's make or break.

But according to their own statement, they espect a 7% penetration of PSVR 2, instead of the 5% of PSVR 1. They do not espect mass adoption, so they are already prepared for it to be a niche. It will be until motion sickness will be completely eliminated, allowing for unrestricted motion in VR, and to be enjoyable by everyone.
 
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