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I think it's time for Nintendo come back to the power race

Woggleman

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They should continue what they are doing because it is working even if their games are not my thing. They give their audience what it wants.
 

UltimaKilo

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OP grow up. Nintendo is a business and they’re making loads of money. What they are doing is working and they should not deviate.
 

KAL2006

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This is a topic about Nintendo, the company that sells 32 millions copies of Animal Crossing and 35 of Mario Kart.

Do you think they care about the 200k units sold of whatever third party game, on which they only earn a fraction of what they earn with every copy they sell from an in-house game ?

It's all about expansion. Why not both. Why not continue to sell Animal Crossing and Mario Kart, but also provide better 3rd party support by having decent hardware so they can make more money with Call of Duty and FIFA or whatever games that sell a ton of coppies and microtransactions. Most companies aim to expand and look at growth and future potential, and not just be satisfied in doing more of the same.

Nintendo is a popular hardware maker and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for Nintendo to find a way to sell more coppies and microtransaction if they had a platform where this was possible without taking away from the market they already have.
 

KAL2006

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Too big a risk, imagine it sold like WiiU, it would probably wipe them out.

It wouldn't really, they would carry on selling the Switch 2. And ignore the Switch 2X and throw in simple upgrades 4K, 120FPS etc for there games. That's a worse case scenario if a 2X don't get the 3rd party support they have hoped.
 

Marty-McFly

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That's because Nintendo have been releasing the most weirding hardware. If they just release a PC like console they would get easy ports.

N64 was on cartridges

GameCube had mini disks, but even still it got decent 3rd party support, if it had regular disks it could have got more support.

Wii U, developers had to cater for the weird touchscreen.

Nintendo haven't ever released a normal system that's PC architecture with regular disk drive. So we still don't know the sort of 3rf party support they would get if they were to release a regular console.
They could have made it work if they wanted to. These seem like the go to issues or excuses at the time, but looking at the picture as a whole, third parties stance on Nintendo hasn't changed since relations soured in the NES era. The bad blood was potent. It was steadily down hill from there, to the point where Nintendo is now on pace to have the best selling platform ever, selling software in truck loads, and AAA Western third parties are still showing trepidation.
 
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cireza

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It's all about expansion. Why not both. Why not continue to sell Animal Crossing and Mario Kart, but also provide better 3rd party support by having decent hardware so they can make more money with Call of Duty and FIFA or whatever games that sell a ton of coppies and microtransactions. Most companies aim to expand and look at growth and future potential, and not just be satisfied in doing more of the same.

Nintendo is a popular hardware maker and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for Nintendo to find a way to sell more coppies and microtransaction if they had a platform where this was possible without taking away from the market they already have.
This is wishful thinking. Nintendo are perfectly satisfied with running their business this way. Always have been, otherwise, they would have made tremendous efforts to shake things up. But obviously, they haven't.

They always design their hardware around their specific needs, and they don't care about third parties. Being able to easily run third party games has never been a criteria for them.
 
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93xfan

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I disagree. They should stay the course and do something between a PS4 and PS4 pro in 2023/2024 with DLSS.

They do need to chase faster loading and get a decent CPU upgrade.
 

Azelover

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It's no coincidence they are lagging behind on the technical specs now, as opposed to before... If you thinking diminishing returns is something that doesn't exist, and that it doesn't affect Nintendo, you haven't been paying attention.

They have no reason to stay in the race for horse power.
 
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Marty-McFly

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What they are going to do instead of get lured into a meaningless arms race, is simply release enormous selling software and continue dominating. Especially when the competition starts making their move. Clap them when they get any momentum.

Metroid Prime 4 will probably blow any other Metroid away in sales.

BOTW 2 is going to be earth shattering. 30 million is very doable.

Splatoon 3 is good for 10 million or more.

ect. X 1000

They always have an IP that will sell when they want
 

Termite

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One of the smartest parts of the Switch being a "hybrid" is that it effectively blinded fans from the news that Nintendo has given up on dedicated home consoles for good.

If they had ever actually announced that, there would have been war. But instead, fans can just say "The Switch IS a home console! It's both!" even though it can have none of the advantages of dedicated hardware.

None of this is to say that Nintendo made the wrong decision - they were entirely correct with the Switch. But chasing power and home console specs? That's over.

That said, Switch 2 should be far more competitive than Switch 1. Diminishing returns between hardware generations are going to keep working in Nintendo's favour from now on.
 

KAL2006

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It's no coincidence they are lagging behind on the technical specs now, as opposed to before... If you thinking diminishing returns is something that doesn't exist, and that it doesn't affect Nintendo, you haven't been paying attention.

They have no reason to stay in the race for horse power.

It's not about diminishing returns it's about availability of games that have not been butchered by shit online or bad port.

In not saying they won't have success without the big 3rd party games as they have shown success with Switch without them. However an example is indie games, the switch is weak enough to port indie games which easily allows more support for 3rd party indie games which are now successful on Nintendo hardware. 3rd party indie games selling makes Nintendo money as they get a cut. I'm saying they can extend 3rd party support if they have enough power and get games like the next GTA, a proper FIFA port, COD and etc.
 

Derktron

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Doesn't matter how powerful it is because Nintendo will downclock it for battery life anyway. They don't care about competing for the most powerful console they just care about creating compelling games.
Wow, thanks for stating the obvious.
 

KAL2006

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I think people don't get how much a Sony get paid by 3rd party software sales.


Does any have sales data of how much profit Sony has made for FIFA and COD, from the sales cut as well as cut for microtransactions. Thats a massive income Nintendo can take advantage.
 
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Marty-McFly

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One of the smartest parts of the Switch being a "hybrid" is that it effectively blinded fans from the news that Nintendo has given up on dedicated home consoles for good.

If they had ever actually announced that, there would have been war. But instead, fans can just say "The Switch IS a home console! It's both!" even though it can have none of the advantages of dedicated hardware.

None of this is to say that Nintendo made the wrong decision - they were entirely correct with the Switch. But chasing power and home console specs? That's over.

That said, Switch 2 should be far more competitive than Switch 1. Diminishing returns between hardware generations are going to keep working in Nintendo's favour from now on.
Switch is making WAY more money than 3DS X Wii U, so they obviously made the right choice to streamline into one console/portable hybrid devision.
 

KAL2006

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Switch is making WAY more money than 3DS X Wii U, so they obviously made the right choice to streamline into one console/portable hybrid devision.

3DS was a shit successor to DS, Wii U was a abomination. You can't make comparisons like that.

What if Nintendo made Switch and a PS4 like system. They would have 2 hardwares to sell so more money to be made, as well as more cut from 3rf party ports.
 

StateofMajora

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This is the time where it makes the least sense for them to.

Wii U was when they should have gone all out, with Wii mote instead of the game pad and just called it Wii 2.

Now, they are handheld focused, have a modern architecture, and will have access to dlss with their next handheld in an era where engines are more scalable than ever.
 

KAL2006

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This is the time where it makes the least sense for them to.

Wii U was when they should have gone all out, with Wii mote instead of the game pad and just called it Wii 2.

Now, they are handheld focused, have a modern architecture, and will have access to dlss with their next handheld in an era where engines are more scalable than ever.

This is the time it make the most sense as they are at the top of their game. Mindshare for Nintendo is at its highest. It's best to strike while you are hot. Yes you can carry on doing the same thing and still be successful but great businesses think outside the box and think how they can expand and make more money while they are at the top.
 

StateofMajora

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This is the time it make the most sense as they are at the top of their game. Mindshare for Nintendo is at its highest. It's best to strike while you are hot. Yes you can carry on doing the same thing and still be successful but great businesses think outside the box and think how they can expand and make more money while they are at the top.
They’re not going to move back to home consoles. An ampere based Nvidia handheld will give them more than enough legroom to get ps5 ports, let them make visually stunning first party games and still keep hardware margins high.

It makes zero business sense to adopt a loss lead model.
 

KAL2006

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They’re not going to move back to home consoles. An ampere based Nvidia handheld will give them more than enough legroom to get ps5 ports, let them make visually stunning first party games and still keep hardware margins high.

It makes zero business sense to adopt a loss lead model.

I already stated PS5 is not selling at a profit. Switch OLED and lack of vanilla Switch price drop has shown people are willing to pay a premium for Nintendo. They can sell a powerful system day 1 with a profit and still sell a Switch 2 with a bigger profit. It's just a way to give options and expand the market just how Microsoft has done with Gamepass, Series S and Series X.
 

StateofMajora

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I’ve been thinking about this, and the only thing I think Nintendo needs to splurge a bit on is storage speed. Ps5 has raised the bar so high in this way that even if a developer lowers resolution and other things they might run into problems if a game relies on the ssd speed.

What exactly they can do in a handheld, I’m not quite sure. Faster game cards and a faster cpu is a start, but not enough to make all ports a breeze.
 

StateofMajora

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I already stated PS5 is not selling at a profit. Switch OLED and lack of vanilla Switch price drop has shown people are willing to pay a premium for Nintendo. They can sell a powerful system day 1 with a profit and still sell a Switch 2 with a bigger profit. It's just a way to give options and expand the market just how Microsoft has done with Gamepass, Series S and Series X.
Not if they charge $500. People wouldn’t buy it for their kids.

$299 might be getting them profits atm but it’s a price that’s attractive to customers. Nintendo knows what they are doing business wise.
 

Marty-McFly

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3DS was a shit successor to DS, Wii U was a abomination. You can't make comparisons like that.

What if Nintendo made Switch and a PS4 like system. They would have 2 hardwares to sell so more money to be made, as well as more cut from 3rf party ports.
Sony tried to have a successful portable and home console and failed because they spread themselves too thin.

I think Nintendo is much better off focusing all of their efforts in one area. It's 2021, not the Gameboy and NES era.

I can see there being some market for some powerful home Switch line that scales like the XSS to the XSX, but I don't think Nintendo's that interested.
 
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cireza

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FIFA and COD
And people will continue buying a Playstation to play these games. They don't think for a second whether the games are available elsewhere. They just buy the new PS, and their couple games.
 
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Kataploom

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there is definitely some framerate issue with the pc, maybe frame pacing or maybe something else. The n64 was rumored to run some games at 15-24~fps, I had no issue. But gaming at 30fps on pc, is somehow bothersome.
You can always cap the framerate using fraps and vsync and it will play well at 30fps. At 30 a lot of games are just ok, the problem is when it goes under that... damn, just can't
 

KungFucius

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Here me out.

Most people expect the successor of Switch to be Switch 2.

And I agree, but I think Nintendo should go the dual console route.

We should get
Switch 2
Switch 2X

Switch 2 will be your normal successor, similar to the Switch it can be docked. Will support 720p handheld mode, and 1080p docked.

Switch 2X should be a console only super powered console. All Switch 2 games will be compatible with 2X however they will have higher framerates, RT, 4k support. But the extra thing they can do is have 2X exclusive games that are not held back by portable power. This way they would get all the bug 3rd party games releasing on 2X. Nintendo themselves don't even need to make 2X exclusive games they can support regular Switch 2, but have 2X enhancements such as 4K and RT. All Switch 2 games will be cross buy and work on 2X only we would have some 2X exclusives.

Basically
Switch 2 will continue Nintendo's domination of the kids, and casual market.
Switch 2X will bring back the 3rd party Devs that need more power and expand to hardcore gamer audience.
No way in fuck Nintendo splits the market. Why would they spend money to design hardware just for publishers to port games from other consoles? They care about selling systems and their games and the margins on that activity.

It could be possible for them to add hardware to the dock to make games play better instead of just upping the power to the hardware, but all games will run both docked and undocked. Or they could just partition the HW in the system and turn it on when docked. My guess is that they go with 1080p 60FPS with DLSS to make it look OK on 4k. RT doesn't matter to them unless it cuts development costs like DLSS does. Switch 2 should be out 8 years or so after the switch. That is more than enough time to get a machine that is at least 4x as powerful for about the same cost. Sony and MS did about 6x but upped the cost. So most likely they will have the Switch 2 be about 2x as powerful because Nintendo.
 

KAL2006

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Sony tried to have a successful portable and home console and failed because they spread themselves too thin.

I think Nintendo is much better off focusing all of their efforts in one area. It's 2021, not the Gameboy and NES era.

I can see there being some market for some powerful home Switch line that scales like the XSS to the XSX, but I don't think Nintendo's that interested.

But I didn't say Nintnedo should make a portable. I said they should make a hybrid system like Switch as well as a dedicated powerful console.

And they wouldn't spread themselves goo thin as I have stated in my OP Nintendo would be making games mainly for the hybrid console and just simply have extra bells and whistles (4K, RT) a for their dedicated consoles when those games are played on that system. So Nintnedo wouldn't be making 2 Mario Karts one for each system they would be making only 1 Mario Kart which is enhanced when played on the dedicated console.
 

Coolwhhip

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I have said many times too that a console only Switch would make sense. But Nintendont care.
 

KAL2006

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And people will continue buying a Playstation to play these games. They don't think for a second whether the games are available elsewhere. They just buy the new PS, and their couple games.

People continued to buy games on PlayStation, then Microsoft entered the market and took some of that marketshare. Nintnedo hasn't even tried to see if they can, GameCube was gimped by mini disks, Wii was too weak and had motion controls, Wii I was too weak and had a weird 2nd screen. Basically we haven't had a single Nintendo console that has attempted a regular console for 3rd parties so now would you know people won't buy on a Nintendo system that's powerful. We also live in a age where Dev tools can easily port as all architecture is the same.
 

KAL2006

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Not if they charge $500. People wouldn’t buy it for their kids.

$299 might be getting them profits atm but it’s a price that’s attractive to customers. Nintendo knows what they are doing business wise.

And why not both.

My OP has stated to make 2 systems, 1 hybrid and 1 dedicated powerful console.
 

Marty-McFly

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But I didn't say Nintnedo should make a portable. I said they should make a hybrid system like Switch as well as a dedicated powerful console.

And they wouldn't spread themselves goo thin as I have stated in my OP Nintendo would be making games mainly for the hybrid console and just simply have extra bells and whistles (4K, RT) a for their dedicated consoles when those games are played on that system. So Nintnedo wouldn't be making 2 Mario Karts one for each system they would be making only 1 Mario Kart which is enhanced when played on the dedicated console.
It's not a terrible idea from a gamer's perspective. I wouldn't be opposed to it. I don't think Nintendo would do it though. It's not like them.
 
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So after a couple of decades of proving that their game designs aren't hampered by the teraflops, Nintendo should build a 500w monstrosity just so that OP can play Mario and Assassin's Creed or some bullshit on the same box.
 

tr1p1ex

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Not going to happen. It would never get the 3rd party games. Which 3rd party is going to port their game to a completely different architecture on a tiny install base?

Nintendo would waste time and resources developing a 2nd piece of hardware that is significantly different.
 
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KAL2006

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So after a couple of decades of proving that their game designs aren't hampered by the teraflops, Nintendo should build a 500w monstrosity just so that OP can play Mario and Assassin's Creed or some bullshit on the same box.
In business it's about making money.

Nintnedo are in the game industry. And one of the best ways to make money is from getting a cut from your 3rd party partners. They can continue there game design power is nothing to do with it.
 

cireza

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then Microsoft entered the market and took some of that marketshare.
And it took tremendous efforts over several generations to achieve this, which is not even taking the majority of the share.

Nintnedo hasn't even tried to see if they can, GameCube was gimped by mini disks, Wii was too weak and had motion controls, Wii I was too weak and had a weird 2nd screen.
Yes, because as I said earlier, Nintendo design their console around their internal need and don't care at all about third parties. It has always been the case since the NES. Third parties are an afterthought. Back in the NES/SNES days, they had contracts to force third parties to stay on their consoles. But once this changed, and because of how they designed their consoles, they naturally left.
 
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KAL2006

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Not going to happen. It would never get the 3rd party games. Which 3rd party is going to want to port their game to a completely different architecture on a tiny install base?

Nintendo would waste time and resources developing a 2nd piece of hardware that is significantly different.

The architecture would be similar to a gaming PC.
 
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In business it's about making money.

Nintnedo are in the game industry. And one of the best ways to make money is from getting a cut from your 3rd party partners. They can continue there game design power is nothing to do with it.
Ahh yes, about making the money. Nintendo has completely failed on that front. They should definitely change course and just staple every feature from Xbox onto their next system. Then straight to making electric cars... I mean, Teslas run some okay games and they are making like a billion a quarter and rising. Could you imagine an entire Nintendo car? How many billions!

I am grateful we are having this intelligent business conversation.
 

tr1p1ex

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The architecture would be similar to a gaming PC.
It wouldn't tho. ...because that means Nintendo would have to port their games to this new architecture.

The Switch runs on ARM. Switch 2 likely will do the same.
 
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I like your idea, but that super power console will not succeed. Nintendo has been away from AAA gaming development for 18 years. I don't think they will be able to suddenly manage USD 200 million projects.
 

KAL2006

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Ahh yes, about making the money. Nintendo has completely failed on that front. They should definitely change course and just staple every feature from Xbox onto their next system. Then straight to making electric cars... I mean, Teslas run some okay games and they are making like a billion a quarter and rising. Could you imagine an entire Nintendo car? How many billions!

I am grateful we are having this intelligent business conversation.

You are.confused they haven't failed at all Switch had made them a ton of money and they are in top, while you are on top you don't make more of the same you find ways to expand your userbase to make more money.
 

KAL2006

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It wouldn't tho. ...because that means Nintendo would have to also port their games to the architecture.

The Switch runs on ARM. Switch 2 likely to follow suit. Now they are going to have 2 different architectures again? Never going to happen.

Nintnedo would be using NVidia.

I'm sure NVidia would be able to come up with a solution where they can emulate and enhance their handheld architecture on their dedicated powerful console. The architectures can share some similar components but not all the same. There are even rumours that ARM will be able to do big things in the future when it comes to power. NVidia now owns ARM. Even the same architecture from their handheld may even be able to run way better without thermal and battery limitations. Just a more powerful chip but same architecture.
 

tr1p1ex

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The only thing that has really changed in their favor with regards to making an expensive console to compete with the PS/Xbox is cross-platform play. It wouldn't be a showstopper for little jimmy's Mom to buy a Switch 2x for him to play CoD online if the Switch 2x managed to get CoD.
 

KAL2006

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I like your idea, but that super power console will not succeed. Nintendo has been away from AAA gaming development for 18 years. I don't think they will be able to suddenly manage USD 200 million projects.

If you read my OP, I have stated Nintendo wouldn't make exclusive games for the dedicated console they would just enhance their games from the hybrid console with RT, and 4K but they will stick to there design philosophy of making cheaper games but with the added resolution, FPS and RT those lower budget games would still look outstanding. They can let the 3rd parties make exclusive games for the dedicated console as they would only be porting whatever they release on PS5 and PC.
 

tr1p1ex

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Nintnedo would be using NVidia.

I'm sure NVidia would be able to come up with a solution where they can emulate and enhance their handheld architecture on their dedicated powerful console. The architectures can share some similar components but not all the same. There are even rumours that ARM will be able to do big things in the future when it comes to power. NVidia now owns ARM. Even the same architecture from their handheld may even be able to run way better without thermal and battery limitations. Just a more powerful chip but same architecture.
ARM isn't x86. PS5/Xbox are x86. Switch is ARM. PS5/Xbox use aMD gpus. Nintendo would indeed use Nvidia. Emulators don't just appear out of thin air day 1 and work. Nevermind the cost and development time needed to support what will surely be a tiny install base. Not going to happen.

AGain the biggest issue of them all is getting 3rd party games. 3rd party developers aren't going to port their games just because. It has to make some financial sense. And without an install base of significance it won't.
 
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bender

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