• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

I think it's time for Nintendo come back to the power race

Jun 16, 2018
4,273
3,928
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
Not gonna happen. Why would they want to balloon their game development budgets with high end graphics when their fan base is happy with the Switch? Makes no sense.

Chip design is being accelerated by AI, optimal chip design and algorithm design can beat the gains of moore's law.

Even on a budget, humans can be aided by ai, content creation can be accelerated by intelligent software, vastly accelerated.

A simple glimpse is artbreeder program.

Super powered console!
Hyper console, with ai google can design in hours what takes humans years. Similar is likely to happen elsewhere including gpu chip design.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bad guy

REDRZA MWS

Member
Jan 7, 2018
963
1,266
440
there are 5g chips that allow wireless transmission of high rez VR signals at high framerate, such chips could allow a portable console to connect both to a TV, as well as to future Smart Glasses that can project 100" Virtual TV screens that move around with you everywhere you go.
No thanks, just an up to par home console with hdmi 2.1 will do.
 
Feb 27, 2021
470
373
280
Nah, Nintendo have never done well in the power race. And why do we need 3 competing for power. Let one do something different.
 

Derktron

Member
Dec 27, 2019
2,420
2,937
510
Stop. Get some help because it's not going to happen any time soon. One of the things that could happen is when Nvidia makes a new mobile chip where later down the line Nintendo is forced to use it. The question is how powerful it would be. Another big thing to look at is Nintendo is having a good relationship with developers making games for the Nintendo Switch so I think when that changes then Nintendo would be forced to change their outlook. But in the meantime, that will never happen ever, maybe soon but that also comes from Nvidia as well.
 
Last edited:

daveonezero

Member
Nov 19, 2018
1,624
1,328
425
We should stop using the other companies upgrades and call this imaginary system the Super Switch.

I think Nintendo would do an upgrade through the dock before something like this.

just like the Switch but more drastic.

a better interface that adds ram and maybe a second GPU to just scale up. It wouldn’t have any exclusives but just display better and get better performance on the TV. A more drastic upgrade than what the Switch does.

even the. It’s a long shot. But this way they could sell the dock as a separate upgrade or an upgraded package. While the standard switch comes with the no frills dock.
 
Last edited:

Zannegan

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,942
1,423
535
You're assuming that only kids and casuals want the hybrid form factor, and that third parties will be tripping all over themselves to develop for a Nintendo console, which history shows has not been the case. So much for the pros.

In the cons category you have Nintendo dividing its development resources once again, using marketing and manufacturing bandwidth (or however you put this) to develop and prop up a product that history says may not have an audience, while backing off on the form factor that's made them wildly successful this gen just as serious competition appears on the horizon.

You want third party support on the next Nintendo hardware? Then pray that they nail the sweet spot the Switch did this gen, juuuuust close enough to get downports without driving prices too high. If Nintendo can get their CPU within spitting distance of the next gen consoles and use DLSS to make their GPU punch above its weight, then you'll have the most powerful handheld on the market and a console that's roughly equivalent to the Series S.

I honestly think that's the best case scenario you can hope for next gen, unless they figure out a way to make the "pro dock" feasible (and more importantly, attractive to consumers).
 

GuinGuin

Banned
May 18, 2021
1,754
3,504
445
Stop. Get some help because it's not going to happen any time soon. One of the things that could happen is when Nvidia makes a new mobile chip where later down the line Nintendo is forced to use it. The question is how powerful it would be. Another big thing to look at is Nintendo is having a good relationship with developers making games for the Nintendo Switch so I think when that changes then Nintendo would be forced to change their outlook. But in the meantime, that will never happen ever, maybe soon but that also comes from Nvidia as well.

Doesn't matter how powerful it is because Nintendo will downclock it for battery life anyway. They don't care about competing for the most powerful console they just care about creating compelling games.
 

Kataploom

Member
Jan 30, 2014
1,451
1,052
775
Colombia
This has nothing to do with hardware power or graphics, they are not mutually exclusive.

Nintendo has weak hardware because they found their highest profit comes from cheaper hardware and higher prices. I can't blame them.

Their most successful consoles since the SNES have all been significantly weaker than the competition - Wii, DS, 3DS, Switch. When they compete on hardware, they fail - N64, GameCube. Even Wii U had a short period of time when it was the strongest console for sale.
Actually they can. Price point is important for wide appeal... And most of people playing Nintendo games not that they don't care about graphics, but are mostly attracted to artstyle and their games look from good enough to fantastic as they are to them so putting more power is literally only if it doesn't affect other priority feature.

I game on PC too and can't give a shit about more powerful Nintend machine unless for constant 60fps on all THEIR games, since most run at 60fps but some like Xenoblade are still 30 fps.

Can live with that tho.
 
Jun 16, 2018
4,273
3,928
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
No thanks, just an up to par home console with hdmi 2.1 will do.
I'm a fan of cables, after all cables allow nutrient and oxygenated blood exchange, making it so with cables to the right machine you need not defecate, eat, or breathe.

But many prefer wireless, just like many prefer digital streaming. Making it ever harder for me to get the 4k blurays at the dwindling bestbuy physical video section, and having trouble even getting old dvd series from amazon in dvd. At least managed to get uncensored pretty baby and blue lagoon from amazon dvd area, though I'd prefer these in 4k.

And some even prefer to eat feces, though I prefer to eat honey.
 
Last edited:

Captain Toad

I advertise for PlayStation. For free.
Dec 1, 2020
4,270
11,972
640
I game on PC too and can't give a shit about more powerful Nintend machine unless for constant 60fps on all THEIR games, since most run at 60fps but some like Xenoblade are still 30 fps.
You're not Nintendo's target audience. You're PC, PlayStation and Xbox's. Nintendo will let them fight over you, while the rake in the money of a different demographic that they own to themselves.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Mar 6, 2013
22,829
2,663
795
Nope. And you would still be limited by making all games compatible with the handheld Switch. they didn't even made a Switch pro after all

But i suspect Switch 2 will have some sort of 4k compatibility with Nvidia tech. So finally massive improvment on image quality for Nintendo (at low rendering cost). Nintendo abandoned the power race simply because nobody gives a shit about buying an ultra powerful Nintendo console other than internet warriors, they would be eaten by Microsoft and Sony in raw numbers, with their pro consoles. The portable approach works well for them at delivering ok tech at lower prices while making profits, Switch still was strong and modern enough to get lots of third party ports
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zannegan
Jun 16, 2018
4,273
3,928
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
Doesn't matter how powerful it is because Nintendo will downclock it for battery life anyway. They don't care about competing for the most powerful console they just care about creating compelling games.
lot of promising battery tech always on the horizon. Also limit of power efficiency suggest over 1000x improvement still possible in compute per watt, iirc, though may be mistaken. That is before need for reversible computing which can break this limit. Algorithmic improvement of underlying software should allow 1000x improvement also, thus 1,000,000~ fold improvement potentially within reach(eventually).
You're not Nintendo's target audience. You're PC, PlayStation and Xbox's. Nintendo will let them fight over you, while the rake in the money of a different demographic that they own to themselves.
Think nintendo can and will be able to provide 60fps modes, that is quite easy to do, or at least get special screens and do 40-45 fps(akin to ratchet's new mode in ps5) which is more difficult to tell from 60fps.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Zannegan

Kataploom

Member
Jan 30, 2014
1,451
1,052
775
Colombia
You're not Nintendo's target audience. You're PC, PlayStation and Xbox's. Nintendo will let them fight over you, while the rake in the money of a different demographic that they own to themselves.
Actually I like Nintendo a lot and use to have (when money provides through a gen) PC + Nintendo combo. I really like how Nintendo games look, I'm a fucker for art style too. To me, MK8 looks absurdly good, even compared to other PC games I play too.

Nintendo don't NEED more power on their consoles, at least not right now and probably not for a while since most younger generations play much less demanding games on their phones anyway so their games may feel premium to them.
 
Last edited:

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
17,922
28,974
1,075
Only gaming forums like GAF is cares about tech so it can fuel console war BS but not everybody is obsess about high tech graphics like this place is.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Member
May 31, 2020
5,752
11,437
665
Did you know Animal Crossing: New Horizons is closing in on 40 million worldwide sales? It looks like this...



It's possible, though not confirmed, that Nintendo likes making money.
 

daclynk

Member
Nov 10, 2017
280
292
350
Center of the World
You're not Nintendo's target audience. You're PC, PlayStation and Xbox's. Nintendo will let them fight over you, while the rake in the money of a different demographic that they own to themselves.
Close thread. so true.
i hate the fact that i have to buy a nintendo system just to play zelda and donkey kong. wish they would just go 3rd party and save the hassle of having to buy their shitty overpriced hardware.
you are going to wai for a long ass time.
 

JLB

Member
Dec 6, 2018
3,063
4,361
495
Here me out.

Most people expect the successor of Switch to be Switch 2.

And I agree, but I think Nintendo should go the dual console route.

We should get
Switch 2
Switch 2X

Switch 2 will be your normal successor, similar to the Switch it can be docked. Will support 720p handheld mode, and 1080p docked.

Switch 2X should be a console only super powered console. All Switch 2 games will be compatible with 2X however they will have higher framerates, RT, 4k support. But the extra thing they can do is have 2X exclusive games that are not held back by portable power. This way they would get all the bug 3rd party games releasing on 2X. Nintendo themselves don't even need to make 2X exclusive games they can support regular Switch 2, but have 2X enhancements such as 4K and RT. All Switch 2 games will be cross buy and work on 2X only we would have some 2X exclusives.

Basically
Switch 2 will continue Nintendo's domination of the kids, and casual market.
Switch 2X will bring back the 3rd party Devs that need more power and expand to hardcore gamer audience.

Playstation and Xbox are way ahead of Nintendo when talking about standard consoles that I dont think they will be able to catch up.
 

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,034
2,488
445
The Switch has barely the power of the PS3 while having unrivaled record sales. 2017's Zelda BOTW is still full priced. They don't need to compete power wise, especially with $500 consoles which are sold at a loss.
This is factually incorrect.

The Wii U was more powerful than PS3 because of more modern architecture, just like the Switch blew the Wii U out of the water. Raw horsepower means nothing here. The chipsets were way ahead.

Furthermore the OP is fake news, the Switch was about as powerful as they could make a portable with mass market appeal when it went into mass production for a decent price and battery life.

Switch was Nintendo reentering the handheld power race delivering the closest a portable came to bringing the console experience to a handheld, which Vita failed to do.
 
Last edited:
Jun 16, 2018
4,273
3,928
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
Actually I like Nintendo a lot and use to have (when money provides through a gen) PC + Nintendo combo. I really like how Nintendo games look, I'm a fucker for art style too. To me, MK8 looks absurdly good, even compared to other PC games I play too.

Nintendo don't NEED more power on their consoles, at least not right now and probably not for a while since most younger generations play much less demanding games on their phones anyway so their games may feel premium to them.
I had no problem with the supposedly abysmal framerates of the n64. Could be this framerate issue has to do with some aspect of brain capacity, for whatever reason low framerates do not affect my enjoyment. In fact I quite like it when framerates drop heavy during heavy action, even to single digit fps. You will also find that my brain capacity is significantly above average, even by human measures(quite astounding given the severe deficits of memory and reaction time I have which should affect standard human measures of intellectual capacity. Thus such measures despite being quite above average, vastly underestimate my true abilities.).

OR it could be a coincidence, though personal experience suggests higher intellect better ability to deal with low framerates.
 
Last edited:

Kataploom

Member
Jan 30, 2014
1,451
1,052
775
Colombia
I had no problem with the supposedly abysmal framerates of the n64. Could be this framerate issue has to do with some aspect of brain capacity, for whatever reason low framerates do not affect my enjoyment. In fact I quite like it when framerates drop heavy during heavy action, even to single digit fps. You will also find that my brain capacity is significantly above average, even by human measures(quite astounding given the severe deficits of memory and reaction time I have which should affect standard human measures of intellectual capacity. Thus such measures despite being quite above average, vastly underestimate my true abilities.).
I do notice framedrops, but as long as they are rare I don't care, I'm actually very sensible to framedrops and can get when a game came from 60 fps to... idk, 57 or 55, since there are micro stutters al around, but as long as it's not the normal state of the game I won't care.

Heck I even got an used GPU because I could run almost anything with my Vega 8 at 30fps, but can't handle framedrops to 27 or lower.

Nintendo games tend to be 60fps most of the time so they're perfect for me in that sense, performance is very rarely a Nintendo games issue, I think their focus on art style is an actual smart practice more devs should adopt since it lets them use less power and have more performant games that still look good.
 
Jun 16, 2018
4,273
3,928
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
I do notice framedrops, but as long as they are rare I don't care, I'm actually very sensible to framedrops and can get when a game came from 60 fps to... idk, 57 or 55, since there are micro stutters al around, but as long as it's not the normal state of the game I won't care.

Heck I even got an used GPU because I could run almost anything with my Vega 8 at 30fps, but can't handle framedrops to 27 or lower.

Nintendo games tend to be 60fps most of the time so they're perfect for me in that sense, performance is very rarely a Nintendo games issue, I think their focus on art style is an actual smart practice more devs should adopt since it lets them use less power and have more performant games that still look good.
there is definitely some framerate issue with the pc, maybe frame pacing or maybe something else. The n64 was rumored to run some games at 15-24~fps, I had no issue. But gaming at 30fps on pc, is somehow bothersome.(solid 30fps doesn't seem to bother me on consoles, and even unstable 30fps with drops doesn't bother me either, stutter is bothersome, but framerate drops are not.)
 
Last edited:

Elysion

Member
Jan 11, 2020
373
593
305
I think Nintendo’s last opportunity to release a system with up-to-date hardware was the WiiU. It came out in 2012, at a time when everyone was thirsty for new hardware, while the PS4/XBOne were still a year away. It would’ve been the perfect time to launch a powerful new system.

If the WiiU had been roughly on par with the XBox One (though probably with 4GB RAM instead of 8), I think it would’ve been incredibly successful, even if it had launched at 449 or 499. Nintendo would’ve had a whole year for themselves before their rivals launched their own next-gen systems, and by that time Nintendo could’ve easily dropped the WiiU’s price to 399 or 349 to stay competitive.

The only downside would’ve been that such a system wouldn’t have fit in with their later Switch hybrid strategy, since any handheld released during that time would’ve been much less powerful than this alt-WiiU. So their handheld and console operations would’ve either remained separate, or they could’ve kept the 3ds alive for a few more years and launched the Switch in 2019 or 2020, when a handheld on par with a XBox One would’ve been possible (though probably less powerful than the Deck).
 

sackings

Member
Jul 22, 2020
833
2,199
405
If you want power you pretty much have to sell hardware at a loss or breakeven, something nintendo has basically never done. And you can only do that if you have massive third party support (like sony and MS), because software has to offset the hardware losses. Theres really no incentive for them to do so, given how successful they are already. I think maybe you could argue Nintendo could make more money has a third party publisher than HW creator tbh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GuinGuin

Neil Young

Member
Mar 26, 2020
968
2,613
395
Even if they released a console twice as powerful as a series x, would that magically improve the overall quality of their games or number of releases. There's STILL no word on Mario Kart 9 or a follow up 3D Mario. They have a perfect business model. Release cheap hardware and games and charge premium prices. They're not changing that.
 
Jun 16, 2018
4,273
3,928
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
Even if they released a console twice as powerful as a series x, would that magically improve the overall quality of their games or number of releases. There's STILL no word on Mario Kart 9 or a follow up 3D Mario. They have a perfect business model. Release cheap hardware and games and charge premium prices. They're not changing that.
remind me of the old apple and their underpowered overpriced macs, but apple seems to be about to play ball with the big boys. Their latest h/w is said to be getting extremely op.

Now nintendo need only get into good relation with nvidia, at the executive level, and they'll likely blow everything out of the water for cheap. Especially if arm+nvidia fusion takes place.

Of course a mere human ceo will likely have trouble convincing higher execs at nvidia to give them a good deal. So far it seems execs all over the world have been screwed by nvidia, or so I hear. You'd need godlike talent to convince nvidia to give you their tech at a cheap price, this would actually necessitate a ceo competent enough to be worth the ceo ridiculous salaries in north america.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neil Young

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,034
2,488
445
Basically
Switch 2 will continue Nintendo's domination of the kids, and casual market.
Switch 2X will bring back the 3rd party Devs that need more power and expand to hardcore gamer audience.
Your mistake is thinking 3rd parties wouldn't still give Nintendo the worst treatment even if they did release a more powerful console, see Gamecube and the early years of Wii U. Nintendo is on pace to have the best selling platform of all time with their own games, not third party afterthought ports.

If you want to sell on Nintendo you have to give a competitive effort to Nintendo gamer's like Capcom did with MH Rise. The market is there, but there is too much bad blood between Nintendo and third parties over the generations that I think will never be settled, mostly for the fact that third parties don't want to compete with Nintendo on its own platform.

Nintendo would be foolish to base too much of their plans around third parties who they cannot depend on, when they are more than capable of flourishing themselves.
 
Last edited:

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
8,977
8,436
770
Nintendo don't care about third parties. They only want to sell tenths of millions of their consoles and games, third parties are irrelevant to achieve this.
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,034
2,488
445
I mean, Take Two released LA Noire on Switch instead of GTA V (an Xbox 360 game) even though Switch and indies (and even Capcom) are breaking sales records on the platform.

That should tell you all you need to know about big Western AAA on Nintendo platforms and why Nintendo shouldn't care.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kataploom

Business

Member
Mar 22, 2018
725
1,230
430
Why would they make their hardware margins razor thin and their software developement cost go up?

The Switch could do with some more power, this year it would have been nice to get a more substantial upgrade than the oled, but they are never gonna go for cutting edge specs.
 

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,928
3,521
1,130
United Kingdom
OP says “Should”, but what OP means is “I want”. Nintendo doesn’t want, because Nintendo absolutely doesn’t need. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
Jan 7, 2018
963
1,266
440
Nah not the same thing. I’ve been all digital since the very start of the 360/ps3. What you are talking g about is ridiculous. I do t need anything portable nor wireless, and these 5G chips you speak of Nintendo isn’t even close too. Stop the bs. If Nintendo were to make a competitive home console if he in day 1. My 77” LG OLED doesn’t give a single shit about wireless 5G chips nor portable devices. It does however live hdmi 2.1 and the more powerful the chips inside to push 4/60/120 the better.
 

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
12,233
2,172
1,345
UK
If you want power you pretty much have to sell hardware at a loss or breakeven, something nintendo has basically never done. And you can only do that if you have massive third party support (like sony and MS), because software has to offset the hardware losses. Theres really no incentive for them to do so, given how successful they are already. I think maybe you could argue Nintendo could make more money has a third party publisher than HW creator tbh.

Switch OLED will be £310 in the UK. Which is in the expensive ballpark for a system. Nintendo consumers have shown they will pay a premium for not only there hardware but there software. Sony announced they have already started making a profit on PS5, I'm sure Nintendo can release a system at a premium price and make a profit day 1.
 

BusierDonkey

Member
Sep 21, 2018
3,732
10,076
665
Chasing power has historically been a waste of time in the console space.

Despite the Master System being better on paper the NES sold well because it offered games and genres that nobody had played before. The NES’ software kept it going even into the Genesis short-lived reign.

The Game Boy was an industry laughing stock and every time a more powerful handheld was announced it was going to “crush” the Game Boy line. It never happened, not even close.

When the SNES released it was still technically “weaker” than the Genesis. It outsold the Genesis despite this, mainly due to it’s first party software.

N64 was Nintendo chasing the power figure hard. The PS1 was vastly weaker and outright trounced it.

The GameCube was technically trading blows with the Xbox in terms of power while in early the PS2 was barely outperforming the Dreamcast. The PS2 outsold the other three combined despite that.

DS games looked more than a generation behind the PSP library. Despite Sony’s attempt to “drag portable gaming out of the ghetto” with a more powerful handheld they missed the point of portable gaming. The PSP did well, but compared to the weaker DS it was clearly behind.

The Wii was “Two GameCubes taped together” competing against the first wave of HD systems. Despite being on the market for a shorter duration and being about half as powerful as competing consoles it led the market.

Nintendo then taped two Wiis together and released the WiiU which was now at the top of the systems at the time in power terms. Despite selling against systems at the end of their shelf-life and receiving multiple price cuts early in its life it failed hard.

Sony doubled down on the PSP philosophy and released the expensive Vita with expensive storage against what was basically an updated DS with slightly better visuals and a gimmick 3D effect. Despite the beautiful OLED screen and amazing visuals the Vita was one of the biggest blunders in gaming history despite actually being a great system.

The PS4 launched alongside the Xbone and trounced it. Despite being the first case listed where the console was more powerful, it was not the determining factor in the sales split. The Xbone reveal was the joke of the generation. The Xbone X released mid gen against the jet-powered PS Pro and the 6TF machine still didn’t make a difference. As those two machines duked it out Nintendo launched the Switch, a vastly weaker hybrid console. It also had a mainline Zelda and Mario game in its first year and was instantly a success.

Xbox Series on paper is stronger than the PS5 (feel free to debate this amongst yourselves, I really don’t care). It’s evident what direction the sales split is going this gen though. The now much, much, much, much (laughably) weaker Switch is cleaning house with no major releases in over a year, no price drops (technically the OLED Switch will be a price increase) and a library of WiiU ports. It’s on a trajectory to outsell the DS and PS2. Nintendo has perfected the evergreen title. Never a price drop on their software but sales are perpetually strong because the games have no shelf-life.

As this forum really likes to point out, most gaming PCs are 486 powered with graphics cards from 2007 because most people aren’t willing to dump $1000 on a gpu to have 8K nipples in their modded Skyrim.

In all of the above instances over the span of gaming going back to the NES there was only one case where the more powerful system outsold the weaker platform and in that case it was more due to poor leadership and a $100 price difference. In that single case it was also not Nintendo.

But maybe this time power will be the determining factor for Nintendo. They should totally blow all their savings to make a 4K hybrid console with a terrible battery life that costs $500 or more.
 
Last edited:

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
12,233
2,172
1,345
UK
Your mistake is thinking 3rd parties wouldn't still give Nintendo the worst treatment even if they did release a more powerful console, see Gamecube and the early years of Wii U. Nintendo is on pace to have the best selling platform of all time with their own games, not third party afterthought ports.

If you want to sell on Nintendo you have to give a competitive effort to Nintendo gamer's like Capcom did with MH Rise. The market is there, but there is too much bad blood between Nintendo and third parties over the generations that I think will never be settled, mostly for the fact that third parties don't want to compete with Nintendo on its own platform.

Nintendo would be foolish to base too much of their plans around third parties who they cannot depend on, when they are more than capable of flourishing themselves.

That's because Nintendo have been releasing the most weirding hardware. If they just release a PC like console they would get easy ports.

N64 was on cartridges

GameCube had mini disks, but even still it got decent 3rd party support, if it had regular disks it could have got more support.

Wii U, developers had to cater for the weird touchscreen.

Nintendo haven't ever released a normal system that's PC architecture with regular disk drive. So we still don't know the sort of 3rf party support they would get if they were to release a regular console.
 

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
12,233
2,172
1,345
UK
I mean, Take Two released LA Noire on Switch instead of GTA V (an Xbox 360 game) even though Switch and indies (and even Capcom) are breaking sales records on the platform.

That should tell you all you need to know about big Western AAA on Nintendo platforms and why Nintendo shouldn't care.

Because the porting process is still long on a Switch. Take Two has dropped support for PS3 GTA Online a while back they are focused on PS4 level hardware for updates on there GTA Online.

I really doubt 3rd parties would ignore a system that's PC like for easy ports.
 

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
12,233
2,172
1,345
UK
Nintendo don't care about third parties. They only want to sell tenths of millions of their consoles and games, third parties are irrelevant to achieve this.

Yeah I guess the cut they get selling 3rd party games is minor.
 

Alebrije

Member
Feb 25, 2010
10,304
2,872
1,135
Nintendo has not motivation to move from its current possition..they are making tons of money and will keep the same way just with small hardware improvements. The reason : Nientendo consoles is the only place to play Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Smash, and other IPs like Metroid, Pikmin, Donkey K, Animal C, Splatoon....etc.

Also has the most affordable way to play mobile games from other Developers.

Sincw Wii era Nintendo Knew the way to keep competitive in the industry was the blue ocean model to create value at low cost. Nintendo fans see a value on Switch that even an small change like the oled screen makes them buy it even if they own a Switch.
 
Last edited:

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
12,233
2,172
1,345
UK
Nintendo has not motivation to move from its current possition..they are making tons of money and will keep the same way just with small hardware improvements. The reason : Nientendo consoles is the only place to play Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Smash, and other IPs like Metroid, Pikmin, Donkey K, Animal C, Splatoon....etc.

Also has the most affordable way to play mobile games like from other Developers.

Sincw Wii era Nintendo Knew the way to keep competitive in the industry was the blue ocean model to create value at low cost. Nintendo fans see a value on Switch that even an small change like the oled screen makes them buy it even if they own a Switch.

I personally don't think it's about value anymore it's about Nintendo's IP that sell. In fact gaming on a Nintendo system is pricey these days, Switch has yet to have a price drop and the costs way more and never drop in price.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
8,977
8,436
770
Chasing power has historically been a waste of time in the console space.

Despite the Master System being better on paper the NES sold well because it offered games and genres that nobody had played before. The NES’ software kept it going even into the Genesis short-lived reign.

The Game Boy was an industry laughing stock and every time a more powerful handheld was announced it was going to “crush” the Game Boy line. It never happened, not even close.

When the SNES released it was still technically “weaker” than the Genesis. It outsold the Genesis despite this, mainly due to it’s first party software.

N64 was Nintendo chasing the power figure hard. The PS1 was vastly weaker and outright trounced it.

The GameCube was technically trading blows with the Xbox in terms of power while in early the PS2 was barely outperforming the Dreamcast. The PS2 outsold the other three combined despite that.

DS games looked more than a generation behind the PSP library. Despite Sony’s attempt to “drag portable gaming out of the ghetto” with a more powerful handheld they missed the point of portable gaming. The PSP did well, but compared to the weaker DS it was clearly behind.

The Wii was “Two GameCubes taped together” competing against the first wave of HD systems. Despite being on the market for a shorter duration and being about half as powerful as competing consoles it led the market.

Nintendo then taped two Wiis together and released the WiiU which was now at the top of the systems at the time in power terms. Despite selling against systems at the end of their shelf-life and receiving multiple price cuts early in its life it failed hard.

Sony doubled down on the PSP philosophy and released the expensive Vita with expensive storage against what was basically an updated DS with slightly better visuals and a gimmick 3D effect. Despite the beautiful OLED screen and amazing visuals the Vita was one of the biggest blunders in gaming history despite actually being a great system.

The PS4 launched alongside the Xbone and trounced it. Despite being the first case listed where the console was more powerful, it was not the determining factor in the sales split. The Xbone reveal was the joke of the generation. The Xbone X released mid gen against the jet-powered PS Pro and the 6TF machine still didn’t make a difference. As those two machines duked it out Nintendo launched the Switch, a vastly weaker hybrid console. It also had a mainline Zelda and Mario game in its first year and was instantly a success.

Xbox Series on paper is stronger than the PS5 (feel free to debate this amongst yourselves, I really don’t care). It’s evident what direction the sales split is going this gen though. The now much, much, much, much (laughably) weaker Switch is cleaning house with no major releases in over a year, no price drops (technically the OLED Switch will be a price increase) and a library of WiiU ports. It’s on a trajectory to outsell the DS and PS2. Nintendo has perfected the evergreen title. Never a price drop on their software but sales are perpetually strong because the games have no shelf-life.

As this forum really likes to point out, most gaming PCs are 486 powered with graphics cards from 2007 because most people aren’t willing to dump $1000 on a gpu to have 8K nipples in their modded Skyrim.

In all of the above instances over the span of gaming going back to the NES there was only one case where the more powerful system outsold the weaker platform and in that case it was more due to poor leadership and a $100 price difference. In that single case it was also not Nintendo.

But maybe this time power will be the determining factor for Nintendo. They should totally blow all their savings to make a 4K hybrid console with a terrible battery life that costs $500 or more.
Quite a lot of shortcuts taken here. There is nothing that proves or disproves that aiming at having the most powerful console will always lead to failure/success.

It is always a mater of context.

You talk about the MegaDrive, but the fact that it was a very powerful console is what allowed it to stay relevant and offer a huge competition with the SNES, despite being two years older hardware. It definitely played a part here.

N64 was not more powerful than PS1 or Saturn if you take into account storage capacity, which was of course a huge enabler for pretty graphics.

PS2 was weaker than Xbox and GC but released much earlier, and surfing on the success of the PS1. You can't conclude that the sole power argument is what defined this generation, obviously the PS2 had a huge advantage despite being extremely hard to develop for and weaker.

PS4/One and PS5/Series feel totally irrelevant to compare when you see the focus of Microsoft, which is much larger than simply selling units.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
8,977
8,436
770
Valve needs to shut down Steam and Sony need to ban 3rd party's releasing games on PS5. That cut is worthless all that DLC money, microtransactions, are worthless profits.
This is a topic about Nintendo, the company that sells 32 millions copies of Animal Crossing and 35 of Mario Kart.

Do you think they care about the 200k units sold of whatever third party game, on which they only earn a fraction of what they earn with every copy they sell from an in-house game ?
 

tr1p1ex

Member
Feb 18, 2014
995
264
515
They probably wouldn't get 3rd party games. The Gamecube stopped getting 3rd party games despite having similar power as the other guys. It's about install base. Doubt the install base of the more powerful Switch would be enough to attract 3rd party ports. And Nintendo is leery of trying to compete on price against companies as big as Sony and MS which won't help install base.

Also I feel like a dual class console release will encourage developers to release even worse games for the base system. if people complain you tell them to get the more powerful system. It could even rub off on Nintendo.

And then it would not improve the Nintendo games either. Games are fun as is. AS someone said, BotW, one of the best open world games, even arguably the best, runs on the Wii U. IT's much more about craftsmanship than resolution.

And in my experience more power has never made new games run smoother. Because developers who release janky games always release janky games no matter the power.
 
Last edited: