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I think "Eye Adaptation" is the worst visual effect in modern games.

ShinNL

Member
Anyone who drives a car knows this is a real thing though.... when there's something super bright, like a sun, it's harder to see stuff that's in darker tones. That's why we have sun visors. Or why your car navigation in dark mode is near unreadable in daylight.

Another real life eye tip: car wheels don't spin backwards when going forward.
 
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GHG

Member
thats why it’s recommended to watch in a darker room (even more so on oled) the contrast in brightness is important. Also why sdr is inadequate and so is baseline hdr which only has one profile for both light and dark scenes. anyone that’s seen a very bright hdr scene on a decent tv in ideal ambient lighting can see how it is possible to produce that effect but 99% of people gaming don’t have such a panel

But you're still looking at a bright screen while your peripheral vision is still dark. It's not the same thing.

The only thing that could get close is a similar thing happening in VR. Incidentally, that's why it's recommended you turn off all the effects like bloom/lens flare/post processing when playing a game in VR.
 
This absolutely happens in real life (of course it does, devs are not just stupid like that). Happens to me, if it’s really really sunny outside and you’re stepping out of or into some dark building, I know exactly how that feels.

I will hereby commend devs for pushing the boundaries in making the games as realistic as possible.
 
I always assumed that developers do this to give a short moment for assets to load in, so it never was a huge deal.

It does annoy me though.
 

Shai-Tan

Banned
But you're still looking at a bright screen while your peripheral vision is still dark. It's not the same thing.

The only thing that could get close is a similar thing happening in VR. Incidentally, that's why it's recommended you turn off all the effects like bloom/lens flare/post processing when playing a game in VR.

whether something appears bright or not will be relative to the amount of light pupil is letting in. so in a dark room less light is needed to trigger the pupillary light reflex. Obviously better if you have a bigger screen or sit more close to a smaller screen but focus is enough

re vr one of the primary reasons those effects are bad is optics of vr hmd increase clarity, size, fov of less than ideal panels with trade offs that also make god rays and glare a problem.

 
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DaGwaphics

Gold Member
This absolutely happens in real life (of course it does, devs are not just stupid like that). Happens to me, if it’s really really sunny outside and you’re stepping out of or into some dark building, I know exactly how that feels.

I will hereby commend devs for pushing the boundaries in making the games as realistic as possible.

IKR, my eyes definitely need time to adjust to a stark change in lighting. I guess it's an individual thing.
 

nkarafo

Member
That's how it looks here where I live as well, however I remember my vacations in Greece and when I was exiting dark indoors there was definitely some time delay until my eyes have adjusted to the extremely bright environment outside. Not only sun is more intensive in Greece, but the environment is very bright as well (reflective stones instead of grass and houses painted all white).
Funny that you say that because i live in Greece and i don't see that. Then again, i live there so maybe i'm used to it.
 

nkarafo

Member
Also, it ABSOLUTELY does happen in real life, and I’ve never seen it exaggerated in a game to the point that I thought it was comical or problematic.
It absolutely doesn't.

Or else i maybe have super-sight or something and my eyes see everything perfectly despite brightness. Some of the responses make me think that might be the case.

But no, it doesn't. If you are in a tunnel, you can clearly see outside. If you look from a window you can clearly see outside. If you don't then maybe there is something wrong with your eyes.

This really gives me "the human eye can't see more than 24fps" vibes.

This absolutely happens in real life (of course it does, devs are not just stupid like that). Happens to me, if it’s really really sunny outside and you’re stepping out of or into some dark building, I know exactly how that feels.

I will hereby commend devs for pushing the boundaries in making the games as realistic as possible.
So, you are telling me that if you are in your house and look outside from a window on a sunny day, you see a constant glow that covers almost everything and you have to go outside for your eyes to adjust and actually see?

This is a legit question because it sounds incredible to me. I had no idea so many people see the world like that.
 
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Shai-Tan

Banned
If you’re in a tunnel and looking out it’s similar to putting a hood on your camera ie there’s less light entering your eye but you will still get adjustment that takes some seconds when you transition into an area with more photons bouncing into your eye. It’s not an all or nothing thing
 

nkarafo

Member
If you’re in a tunnel and looking out it’s similar to putting a hood on your camera ie there’s less light entering your eye but you will still get adjustment that takes some seconds when you transition into an area with more photons bouncing into your eye. It’s not an all or nothing thing
If you are in a tunnel and looking at the exit, you can still see what's there, that's my point. I mean, i go through tunnels every day... In games, if you stay in the tunnel and look at the exit, it looks like an atomic bomb explosion has freezed in time. It's just an over-exposured image where you can barely see anything. This is not realistic, come on people.
 
It absolutely doesn't.

Or else i maybe have super-sight or something and my eyes see everything perfectly despite brightness. Some of the responses make me think that might be the case.

But no, it doesn't. If you are in a tunnel, you can clearly see outside. If you look from a window you can clearly see outside. If you don't then maybe there is something wrong with your eyes.

This really gives me "the human eye can't see more than 24fps" vibes.


So, you are telling me that if you are in your house and look outside from a window on a sunny day, you see a constant glow that covers almost everything and you have to go outside for your eyes to adjust and actually see?

This is a legit question because it sounds incredible to me. I had no idea so many people see the world like that.
No, not that. Only when you transition physically from very dark to very bright/sunny place like in the example I mentioned. It doesn’t happen all the time, far from it, but during scorching summer months it can happen, yes.
My building main hall is kinda dark so when you step outside and you get sun directly in your face or when you go inside it can take few seconds or just a moment of adjustment. I do wear glasses so maybe it has something to do with that.
 
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Shai-Tan

Banned
If you are in a tunnel and looking at the exit, you can still see what's there, that's my point. I mean, i go through tunnels every day... In games, if you stay in the tunnel and look at the exit, it looks like an atomic bomb explosion has freezed in time. It's just an over-exposured image where you can barely see anything. This is not realistic, come on people.

well yeah if it’s exaggerated it’s another case of imitating bad cameras or just reflective of the simplicity of the method to produce it (kind of like how RTX in games like Metro Exodus have extreme dark areas right next to a window because it’s not practical to do enough bounces to fill out the scene)
 

nkarafo

Member
No, not that. Only when you transition physically from very dark to very bright/sunny place like in the example I mentioned. It doesn’t happen all the time, far from it, but during scorching summer months it can happen, yes.
My building main hall is kinda dark so when you step outside and you get sun directly in your face or when you go inside it can take few seconds or just a moment of adjustment. I do wear glasses so maybe it has something to do with that.
Ok i see what you are saying but that is a different case than what i'm talking about in the OP or the video i posted. I mean, in the video it looks more like a cheap camera that tries to level correct everything. You can see the character slightly going behind a wall and everything outside gets brighter. It's stupidly fake.
 
Actually at first I though, this guy has a point... Then I stopped and gave it serious consideration, it enables better/more accurate lighting of both dark and brightly lit scenes.

It does go way too slow in many / most games, like exaggerated chromatic aberration or other over done effects this is annoying.
 

Soodanim

Member
I don't pay attention enough to say whether or not the OP video is representative of how games use it or if it's just an exaggerated effect to show it off, but when it's done well it's natural to the point where I don't notice it. Without everything lighting would feel flatter.

It's obviously a real effect, but I can definitely understand how it can be overdone. I don't find that my eyes take that long to adjust unless I've been in a very bright environment for a long time, and even then it's not as extreme as nkarafo is describing. even if he is using hyperbole. A more subtle effect is much more likely to be unnoticed because it feels natural.
 
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LordOfChaos

Member
Wasn't something like this introduced in Half Life: Lost Coast as a pre-HDR "HDR"? The pitch was you could have something like that barn appear to have deep shadows while you're in the bright light, while it would brighten as you went in it, effectively expanding the range of lighting an artist could use instead of having everything lit from the start.
 

Rayderism

Member
It's like having active contrast enhance turned on to high on a TV, but it's built in to the game and you can't turn it off. I find it a bit annoying myself. I forget what game I was playing that did that, but it caused me to pause and look in my TV settings, thinking contrast enhance got turned back on somehow. Then I looked in the game settings trying to find a way to turn that off, because it looked goofy to me for the game to keep doing that.
 

Soodanim

Member
I'm desribing how games do it.
I looked up Driveclub.

1:40-1:45.
That's definitely taking it to an extreme, although it's such a quick transition that it's not a big issue. I can only think of one other game in recent time that does it so strongly, and that's Elex. I can't say I've noticed it being a widespread issue.

Wasn't something like this introduced in Half Life: Lost Coast as a pre-HDR "HDR"? The pitch was you could have something like that barn appear to have deep shadows while you're in the bright light, while it would brighten as you went in it, effectively expanding the range of lighting an artist could use instead of having everything lit from the start.
That's exactly it, and what I thought of when I read the OP. It's subtle there.
 
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Ok i see what you are saying but that is a different case than what i'm talking about in the OP or the video i posted. I mean, in the video it looks more like a cheap camera that tries to level correct everything. You can see the character slightly going behind a wall and everything outside gets brighter. It's stupidly fake.
Well, fine but maybe give them a break, it is clear that they are trying to recreate this effect and it’s not perfect at the moment. Some games have it way exaggerated like already mentioned Gran Turismo.
 

zombrex

Member
The worst is when in FPS games you look outside through windows and everything is totally overexposed and you can't see shit. Battlefield did this for almost a decade not sure if they fixed it still. Gran Turismo is also terrible when you drive through the tunnels, it happens even when it would not in real life.
 

Shai-Tan

Banned
The worst is when in FPS games you look outside through windows and everything is totally overexposed and you can't see shit. Battlefield did this for almost a decade not sure if they fixed it still. Gran Turismo is also terrible when you drive through the tunnels, it happens even when it would not in real life.

sometimes overexposed exterior can look cool though. I think the problem of Battlefield 3 was excessive amount of bloom (reminds me of the times at the optometrist when they gave those eye drops that super dilate your pupils)
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Graphics have risen developers know good lighting won't carry video games but it doesn't hurt to have good eye adaptation (lighting) in video games.
 
Elex is really terrible with it. You can look directly out of a window and get blasted as if you were right in front of the sun. And looking inside buildings from the outside it's pitch black.

Makes me wonder if it is some kind of performance thing - just masking not rendering the inside / outside or something.
 
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John Day

Member
I see your point. I think it works fine during a scene, or a slow walking section really. But right smack in the middle of action is a bad.
 

tassletine

Member
I think if it's used as part of gameplay ie : To surprise people, then it could be good.
I'd like a game that utilised it in a way that had you getting used to the dark. Ie~: Slowly, over a series of minutes realising that you were in a horrible location, for a horror game.
 
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