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I replayed TLOU2 and I still don't know what to think about it...

Hugare

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Why are you skipping over that the Fireflies kidnapped Joel, stripped him of his gear and were marching him to a possible death? Joel made a reasonable request to see Ellie and they started getting violent.

The Fireflies acted unethical in the way they were going to murder Ellie.

Joel and Tommy's hunter days would've been interesting to see but I don't see how those past events count against Joel at the hospital.
Play the game again

They didnt kidnap Joel lol. And they werent going to kill Joel. They were just marching him out of the hospital.

Joel became violent and went in Marlene's direction, so a guard stoped his ass. Didnt shoot him or anything.

And I'm not talking about the bigger picture, not just the hospital. Abby could have been the daughter of someone who Joel killed in the past on his younger years.

Maybe the Fireflies were unethical about killing Ellie that way, but Joel straight murdered everyone, dude.

Joel wasn’t just killing them, he was defending himself from them. Ellie’s pain was fresh, Abbys was from years before and without a full picture of what went on.
Nah. Joel wasnt just defending himself.

You only have to listen when Tommy talks about those years to understand how things happened. He straight up says that they killed innocent people.

Joel was one of those guys that would murder another family to save his, without asking questions. I would do the same? Probably. But I woud be aware that I became I monster by doing that. So thinks Tommy by saying "it wasnt worth it".

Oh and Ellie had the full picture? Please. She didnt know shit about Abby's motivations.

And so what if Abby's pain was from years ago?

Ellie would have felt the same at Abby's shoes
 
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Danjin44

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The game wants you to feel that? Interesting, because I don't think it ever made me feel that. I felt he did a terrible thing for humanity, but not that it was "doomed". After all, success of making a vaccine and one that worked and was righteously administered to the people was not a guaranteed outcome. Who knows what would have followed if the doctors had obtained a vaccine? Joel didn't do humanity any favors though.
Honestly I don't have that much issue original game's story, it in Part 2 that trying to make us feel what Joel did is wrong but based everything I know from the first game, I the just couldn't agree. The game was really trying make us sympathies with Abby and her cause and just couldn't.
 
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Honestly I don't have that much issue original game's story, it in Part 2 that trying to make us feel what Joel did is wrong but based everything I know from the first game, I the just couldn't agree. The game was really trying make us sympathies with Abby and her cause and just couldn't.
What can I tell you...too bad.

Not to derail the thread, but did you play Red Dead Redemption 2? If so, what do you think of that story?
 

Danjin44

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Not to derail the thread, but did you play Red Dead Redemption 2? If so, what do you think of that story?
I don’t play simulation games with crappy controls. My friend own the game I tried and just couldn’t stand it.
 

bitbydeath

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Play the game again

They didnt kidnap Joel lol. And they werent going to kill Joel. They were just marching him out of the hospital.

Joel became violent and went in Marlene's direction, so a guard stoped his ass. Didnt shoot him or anything.

And I'm not talking about the bigger picture, not just the hospital. Abby could have been the daughter of someone who Joel killed in the past on his younger years.

Maybe the Fireflies were unethical about killing Ellie that way, but Joel straight murdered everyone, dude.


Nah. Joel wasnt just defending himself.

You only have to listen when Tommy talks about those years to understand how things happened. He straight up says that they killed innocent people.

Joel was one of those guys that would murder another family to save his, without asking questions. I would do the same? Probably. But I woud be aware that I became I monster by doing that. So thinks Tommy by saying "it wasnt worth it".

Oh and Ellie had the full picture? Please. She didnt know shit about Abby's motivations.

And so what if Abby's pain was from years ago?

Ellie would have felt the same at Abby's shoes
Ellie saw everything, that should be justification in itself. Abby turned up after and didn’t know that the Fireflies were hunting them.

Joel’s actions weren’t clear, for all we know the families he killed attacked their village first.
 
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I don’t play simulation games with crappy controls. My friend own the game I tried and just couldn’t stand it.
Ok. Just wanted your input on that one since so many people praise the characters and the script and I think it's not very good and the main character is quite bad. What game you think has a great script?
 
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EDMIX

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his death was essentially a middle finger to fans for thinking he was a hero
The game was not made to cater to 1 side or the other, as to why we can even debate if he was a hero, or not. To some he is, to some he is not. Soooooo the game can be seen as a um "middle finger" to any side bud, it wasn't fucking made to only cater to 1 perspective. I don't think anyone should even waste time appeasing fans to the point of altering a story to make them feel good lol sounds fake as fuck.
TLOU2 is that the story isn't about how life can be unfair at times
Oh it is bud, it can be about all of that. Life isn't fair and many examples show this thru both titles. Get over it (adds to ignore)

lol have a good one bud.


impossible dream.

there is no way they have resource to distribute Vaccine to everyone to "save humanity".

Based on reality. This game doesn't have some futuristic technology

small group of Fireflies can create and distribute the vaccine.

a believable world

Even with the vaccine possible there no way they could distribute enough

Just stop man, the debate that I've seen you have over the months after this game's release regarding this vaccine has gotten more and more silly at the end of the day you don't really know what is capable in that universe and what is not to honestly say such a thing would be "impossible"

Number 1 you're talking about a world in which you don't fucking know every single last human being that was created in that Universe to say of vaccine could not be made, when did the release a bio of all the millions on Earth for you to know this sir?

Number 2 Joel existing Beyond Both Worlds before and after the apocalypse goes to show clearly there could be other people that existed that worked on vaccines BEFORE the apocalypse that very much can create one, you are not talking about some new fucking concept here that needs um "future tech", my god...we can create vaccines RIGHT NOW, why you argued some "future tech" would be needed is beyond me and desperate as fuck. We have been making them since the 1800s, to really say some shit like it would require some "future tech" makes zero sense, yet you fucking talking about "reality"?

Number 3 money is irrelevant in a situation like this where all hell has broken loose it means you're going to get entire teams of scientists trying to actually find a cure for this based on simply wanting the Cure, money would no longer be some object for them to obtain because of the current condition of the world so why you would save money is beyond me that's simply not a concept in this world any longer or in most post-apocalyptic worlds it's why in Fallout you can find post-war money and it's kind of a joke the point is that Society has fallen there for such a concept is going to be irrelevant.

Number 4 your entire desperate goalpost moving of a now arguing that it couldn't be distributed by the fireflies is even more irrelevant because why the fuck would they be the only ones to distribute something like this? They would simply make a bunch of deals with other groups to have them Distributing the vaccine as well.... I mean look at the pandemic going on right now is one fucking group Distributing the vaccine? You have multiple companies distributing their version.... soooo I'm not sure why you try to rest on this idea that they would just be the only ones that I don't know who told you any of that information and nowhere in the story doesn't try to argue they would be the only ones distributing it or something weird like that. You literally made up that point all on your own as nowhere in the game does it ever State they would be the only ones or they weren't going to allow any other group to have it or something odd like that you basically just made that up

So I think your argument about a believable world not having a single scientist that could find a vaccine sounds more unbelievable than believable because you're not really giving the full details of what is left in that Universe in the first place as in we don't even fucking know what the other side of the world looks like in The Last of Us.... so I'm not sure how you're under the assumption that no scientist exist where the fuck would you ever get this information that such a thing is impossible considering the lack of information you actually have on this universe in the first place?


So my friend, if you can believe in the fakest of shit like Nier, I don't know why you'd debate a real concept that exist RIGNT NOW in reality with a vaccine. Shit, that is where you draw the line? Fake robots flying and shit fighting other robots, but a thing that has existed since 1796 is now "unbelievable"? -_-.
 
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Danjin44

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Ok. Just wanted your input on that one since so many people praise the characters and the script and I think it's not very good and the main character is quite bad. What game you think has a great script?
For my taste I like NieR/Drakengard ,13 Sentinels, Odin Sphere, Zero Escape Series, AI: THE SOMNIUM FILES, Shin Megami Tensei, Ace Attorney Series, Team ICO games, Silent Hill and FROMSOFTWARE games.
 
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Fbh

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My random take as someone who neither hated nor loved it:

I think I'm in the minority that was disappointed by the pacing and structure more than the actual plot.
The game was too slow and too long. Took me 30 hours to finish and I just didn't feel like it had the encounter, location or enemy variety to justify it. Things like the scavenging, which I enjoyed in TLOU1, just start to get annoying when you hit the 20 hour mark, and the encounters start to blend together as you mostly fight the same handful of enemies in very similar locations. Having you upgrade and slowly find new tools and weapons with Ellie only to just have a break point in the middle forcing yo to start progression from scratch with a slightly different character was annoying. Having to got to the aquarium 30 times was annoying too.

The Abby part would have been better if it focused more on her and Lev and less on the godawful plot of Owen and friends. Her part only got good once you get to the Island, which is probably my favorite part in the game as it brings a much needed change in style and environment.

As for the story, I think the biggest issue is that they killed Joel too soon. His whole dynamic with Ellie was the strongest plot element of TLOU1, and they take it out of the game almost immediately and replace with other character dynamics that aren't nearly as engaging. Ellie and Dina was meh, Abby and Owen was terrible and Abby and Lev was decent but felt like a less good Ellie/Joel. When I'm more engaged by the flashbacks with Joel and Ellie than any of the stuff going on in the actual plot I think there's an issue.

And as mentioned, I thought the whole part with Owen and friends was terrible and really hard to give a shit about. In fact every time a new Abby flashback started I was my signal to end the playing session for the day.
 
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Ulysses 31

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Play the game again

They didnt kidnap Joel lol. And they werent going to kill Joel. They were just marching him out of the hospital.
Kidnapping:
1. Removal of the victim to another location against the victim's will
2. Forcible restraint of the victim such that they are not free to move freely

If they throw him out somewhere in the dangerous Salt Like City without his gear, that's practically killing him. They moved passed his bag and was told to keep moving, it wasn't looking like he was getting his gear back and Joel is right not to take that chance.
Joel became violent and went in Marlene's direction, so a guard stoped his ass. Didnt shoot him or anything.
Marlene gave the command to shoot Joel if he doesn't cooperate, he is being threatened with death. He just found out someone he deeply cares for is going to get murdered. Joel would be justified using deadly force against the Fireflies in todays society as self defence or in defence of another.
Maybe the Fireflies were unethical about killing Ellie that way, but Joel straight murdered everyone, dude.
There's no maybe about it, Ellie hadn't given informed consent to the surgery and Jerry was OK performing surgery knowing full well it would kill her.
 
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Danjin44

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So my friend, if you can believe in the fakest of shit like Nier, I don't know why you'd debate a real concept that exist RIGNT NOW in reality with a vaccine.
I’m not saying vaccine cannot real but I don’t believe a small group of Fireflies have the resources to make and distribute vaccine to save humanity.
 
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For my taste I like NieR/Drakengard ,13 Sentinels, Odin Sphere, Zero Escape Series, AI: THE SOMNIUM FILES, Shin Megami Tensei, Ace Attorney Series, Team ICO games, Silent Hill and FROMSOFTWARE games.
Ok. So pretty much pure fantasy japanese games. I see. I like fantasy japanese games too, but not similar to a game like Last of Us at all, and most of them have cardboard cutout characters. Many great games that I love, don't get me wrong (my GOTG is Bloodborne and The Last Guardian is in my top 5 this gen, SOTC isn't because it's a remake, but of course that's an all-time fav of mine). Anyway, not much to compare to The Last of Us.
 
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EDMIX

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I’m not saying vaccine cannot real but I don’t believe a small group of Fireflies have the resources to make and distribute vaccine to save humanity.
why the fuck would they be the only ones to distribute something like this?



Read the entire post...

You made that up all on your own btw, no where in either game does it state they ALONE would distribute some vaccine. They'd probably trade with groups, give it out freely to other groups etc, who knows, we don't have all that info. You keep trying to force this narrative that "a small group" when no where does it state they alone would do any of that.

We only know of them trying to get from point A to B, we know not of point Z to really be debating something with zero information, you are basically assuming they alone would do this and debating something you made up...
 
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Danjin44

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like fantasy japanese games too, but not similar to a game like Last of Us at all, and most of them have cardboard cutout characters
disagree completely both Nier, 13 Sentinels much better story and character that TLOU series in my opinion. In fact in Nier its much more clear how he actually "dooms" humanity and actually doest much better job make us sympathies bot side of the conflict.
 
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disagree completely both Nier, 13 Sentinels much better story and character that TLOU series in my opinion. In fact in Nier its much more clear how he actually "dooms" humanity and actually doest much better job make us sympathies bot side of the conflict.
Subjective. Good for you. I played and beat the original Nier, those characters didn't do much for me (shrugs). The main character was a naive errant boy (man, in that version), and I'm sorry I don't remember much (2010 game I beat in 20 hours or so), but I remember the Kaine character was the stereotype anime badass woman with a dark secret and the skull kid was annoying as hell, the game trying to force me too much to emphatize/feel sorry for him. The plot twist and the end with that woman being the bad guy, I remember that was an eye-roller. Sorry, it's been too long and I'm just going by memory here. I'm not saying that kind of story can't be good, but it's not comparable to Last of Us in style and technique. The story in Nier is quite puerile to be honest. And there's nothing wrong with that.
 
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JayK47

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I am glad there is so much discussion on this game. Saves me the time playing it. Seeing as how I was not a super fan of the original, and the sequel sounds like it has more of the stuff I did not like in the original, I can safely pass on it. At this point I don't know if I would play it if I could for free. Definitely a contender for the game with the most threads alongside Cyberpunk.
 

Danjin44

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Subjective. Good for you. I played and beat the original Nier, those characters didn't do much for me (shrugs). The main character was a naive errant boy (man, in that version), and I'm sorry I don't remember much (2010 game I beat in 20 hours or so), but I remember the Kaine character was the stereotype anime badass woman with a dark secret and the skull kid was annoying as hell, the game trying to force me too much to emphatize/feel sorry for him. The plot twist and the end with that woman being the bad guy, I remember that was an eye-roller. Sorry, it's been too long and I'm just going by memory here. I'm not saying that kind of story can't be good, but it's not comparable to Last of Us in style and technique. The story in Nier is quite puerile to be honest. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I pretty you didn't even do route B or C......yeah you have no idea anything about NieR’s story.
 
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I am glad there is so much discussion on this game. Saves me the time playing it. Seeing as how I was not a super fan of the original, and the sequel sounds like it has more of the stuff I did not like in the original, I can safely pass on it. At this point I don't know if I would play it if I could for free. Definitely a contender for the game with the most threads alongside Cyberpunk.
What didn't you like from the first game? I have a friend who didn't like much the first game, and then he became prejudiced against the second game when he read all the spoilers. And he played game just to see what was the fuss about, totally expecting to hate the game (I mean he already hated it before playing it, that's how bad it was) and in the end he really liked the game, thought it is a great game even if he doesn't like stuff about the story and characters, but he definitely liked it a lot more than the first game.
 
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I pretty you didn't even do route B or C......yeah you have no idea anything about NieR’s story.
Lmao. You're pretty sure I didn't do those things? Just like you're pretty sure about the fireflies and all that shit you argue with zero information right? You know shit of what I did in Nier😂, and that besides the point. But look at you jumping to conclusions and making suppositions about what I play and what I know. Have a nice day! Lol
 
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Danjin44

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Because he wants to hate the game and feel very smart by doing so. And then he brings up Nier lmao, omfg...
I actually like original game very much but I’m not fan of 2nd game.

Also the reason I brought up NieR because it does some of the same story elements far better in my opinion, it doesn’t matter how much you don’t remember anything from it.
 
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LegendOfKage

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Play the game again

They didnt kidnap Joel lol. And they werent going to kill Joel. They were just marching him out of the hospital.

Joel became violent and went in Marlene's direction, so a guard stoped his ass. Didnt shoot him or anything.

And I'm not talking about the bigger picture, not just the hospital. Abby could have been the daughter of someone who Joel killed in the past on his younger years.

Maybe the Fireflies were unethical about killing Ellie that way, but Joel straight murdered everyone, dude.

Nearly every action Joel took in the hospital was legally justifiable self-defense or defense of another.


 
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Woggleman

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It might have been legally self defense if courts existed anymore. It really wasn't since the fireflies were willing to let him leave peacefully.
 
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Woggleman

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Everything is not permitted but at the end of the day society has completely broken it is the law of the jungle and in their eyes he is the one standing between them and a chance to save the world.

At gunpoint is not exactly peaceful but they most likely would have let him leave in one piece if he didn't try to fight it.
 
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Hugare

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My random take as someone who neither hated nor loved it:

I think I'm in the minority that was disappointed by the pacing and structure more than the actual plot.
The game was too slow and too long. Took me 30 hours to finish and I just didn't feel like it had the encounter, location or enemy variety to justify it. Things like the scavenging, which I enjoyed in TLOU1, just start to get annoying when you hit the 20 hour mark, and the encounters start to blend together as you mostly fight the same handful of enemies in very similar locations. Having you upgrade and slowly find new tools and weapons with Ellie only to just have a break point in the middle forcing yo to start progression from scratch with a slightly different character was annoying. Having to got to the aquarium 30 times was annoying too.

The Abby part would have been better if it focused more on her and Lev and less on the godawful plot of Owen and friends. Her part only got good once you get to the Island, which is probably my favorite part in the game as it brings a much needed change in style and environment.

As for the story, I think the biggest issue is that they killed Joel too soon. His whole dynamic with Ellie was the strongest plot element of TLOU1, and they take it out of the game almost immediately and replace with other character dynamics that aren't nearly as engaging. Ellie and Dina was meh, Abby and Owen was terrible and Abby and Lev was decent but felt like a less good Ellie/Joel. When I'm more engaged by the flashbacks with Joel and Ellie than any of the stuff going on in the actual plot I think there's an issue.

And as mentioned, I thought the whole part with Owen and friends was terrible and really hard to give a shit about. In fact every time a new Abby flashback started I was my signal to end the playing session for the day.
I agree, the pacing was tough

But maybe it was intentional?

Like, in Alien Isolation. I felt like a wreck after finishing that came, seriously. Felt like I barely survived, just like Ripley lol

I believe that they wanted for you to feel exausted by the end. Maybe they tried the same with TLOU?

Where you go like "Ellie dear, thats enough. Go home". But she keep going. I certainly felt that way by the end.

Thats why replaying both games, TLOU and Alien, is a bitch
 
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JayK47

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What didn't you like from the first game? I have a friend who didn't like much the first game, and then he became prejudiced against the second game when he read all the spoilers. And he played game just to see what was the fuss about, totally expecting to hate the game (I mean he already hated it before playing it, that's how bad it was) and in the end he really liked the game, thought it is a great game even if he doesn't like stuff about the story and characters, but he definitely liked it a lot more than the first game.
Emphasis on brutality. And they seemed to have doubled down on that in the sequel. With such high quality graphics these days, I really do not have the stomach for it. Now cartoon violence, that I do enjoy.
 
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Emphasis on brutality. And they seemed to have doubled down on that in the sequel. With such high quality graphics these days, I really do not have the stomach for it. Now cartoon violence, that I do enjoy.
Oh well. Then it's definitely not something you'd enjoy.
 

Ulysses 31

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Everything is not permitted but at the end of the day society has completely broken it is the law of the jungle and in their eyes he is the one standing between them and a chance to save the world.
Sounds like you believe force settles matters then in which case you should be rooting for Joel since his use of force is more successful than the Fireflies'.
At gunpoint is not exactly peaceful but they most likely would have let him leave in one piece if he didn't try to fight it.
He just learned Ellie was going to get killed, not exactly a calming experience and it's unclear where he's being marched to or if he'll ever get his stuff back raising further anxiety.
 
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Woggleman

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I am not rooting for or against Joel. Both sides are doing what they believe to be the right thing. This series does not have evil mustache twirling villians except for David since there is no need to be pedo at any time. If he was just horny there are adult women in his group. Even the Rattlers as terrible as they are are doing something they feel will benefit them.
'
They were not going to kill Ellie just for the sake of killing her and many people involved including Marlene and Jerry were conflicted about it but felt that one life was worth sacrificing to save millions. Joel in many ways was worse since he admitted to ambushing and killing innocent people in the past for nothing other than their possessions. Accept for his adopted daughter he seemed to have little regard for human life during TLOU1.
 
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bitbydeath

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Everything is not permitted but at the end of the day society has completely broken it is the law of the jungle and in their eyes he is the one standing between them and a chance to save the world.

At gunpoint is not exactly peaceful but they most likely would have let him leave in one piece if he didn't try to fight it.
Killing her at the chance of a vaccine was ridiculous to begin with. Breeding her would have made more sense.
 
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PanzerAzel

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This is the ultimate failure of the second game. Were supposed to feel bad for wanting revenge because the game goes resorts to cheap emotional manipulation such as killing a dog or a pregnant woman(which Abby almost knowingly does later as opposed to Ellie to did it accidentally) to make us feel bad, yet the problem was I still felt Ellie was justified in her actions since she was mostly defending herself and Abby and her crew were not relatable or likable in the slightest.
I can respect what ND attempted with this game, but think it was a lost cause before it even began.

I spent many hours playing as Joel, and partly as Ellie. Any moral arguments from an outside party’s actions held against their actions and choices (that I not only stood by, but actively engaged in) are going to falter before they’re even humored regardless of higher merit, simply by virtue my own degree of personal investment. Right or wrong they were as characters, I grew with Joel and Ellie. I didn’t with Abby, Owen or Manny, and it doesn’t matter how bankrupt Joel or Ellie’s moral standing or justifications might be when contrasted to another, I’m going to be, naturally, heavily predisposed to their favor. This is why I don’t much care to engage in the debate on who was more justified in their actions. Even if Abby is, I will always be on Joel and Ellie’s side, because I grew alongside them, and the intricacies and nuances of their characters bear on any moral framework presented.

If ND wanted to run this experiment, they are working against a massively stacked deck….which is why their attempts at plying sympathy by such superficial tactics of manipulation are not only laughable, they’re downright insulting. It’s an indictment on ND’s misunderstanding of players’ affinity for Joel and Ellie that they believed that having us toss doggie the ball, saving the zebra with Daddy, showing her crying over his corpse or witnessing Abby shivering in fear over heights would tend players towards her plight to anywhere NEAR the degree that many, many hours they’ve already spent seeing….no, experiencing Joel and Ellie‘s lives through their worst and best have. I can appreciate what they were going for, but what did they honestly expect players were going to feel? If they wanted to run this experiment, what they should’ve done is commit the entirety of the second game solely to Abby’s story coinciding with the first game‘s events and ended it at the hospital, then have the third game pitting the two against each other. That would’ve allowed equal growth, understanding, and relation to Abby by players. To not just see her encounter the hardships, but to grow with her through them.

Because otherwise, you’re not just pitting two moral arguments against each other on level grounding, you’re pitting one with an unfair advantage of many hours of personal investment and bias. The utter disregard of that investment not only comes off as incredibly disrespectful to the characters, but the player themselves.
 

Ulysses 31

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I am not rooting for or against Joel. Both sides are doing what they believe to be the right thing. This series does not have evil mustache twirling villians except for David since there is no need to be pedo at any time. If he was just horny there are adult women in his group. Even the Rattlers as terrible as they are are doing something they feel will benefit them.
'
The game lets their actions speak for themselves, David's gang are cannibals, the Rattlers enslave people. It's not strange to get negative impressions of them.

The Fireflies disregard Ellie's autonomy and plan to kill her without informed consent.
They were not going to kill Ellie just for the sake of killing her and many people involved including Marlene and Jerry were conflicted about it but felt that one life was worth sacrificing to save millions.
The Fireflies have altruistic intentions but the game doesn't show that they can deliver. It weakens their position severely when theirs require certain death of someone very unique(immune to infections).
Joel in many ways was worse since he admitted to ambushing and killing innocent people in the past for nothing other than their possessions. Accept for his adopted daughter he seemed to have little regard for human life during TLOU1.
I'm not making a case that Joel is a righteous person, he's clearly not, just that he's more justified in his actions at the hospital than the Fireflies from a moral and legal standpoint in today's society.
 
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I guess a lot of people need to focus on any weaknesses in the story because every other element of the game is peerless. Nothing is perfect and you can’t please everybody. Maybe some gamers may have accepted Abby’s story a little more if she had met their expectations of what a video game female should look like. And they may have preferred Ellie if she wasn’t gay. But then that would mean growing the fuck up.
Would't "immature" guys prefer Ellie gay because lesbians can be objectified more?

I honestly think that using Ellie's sexuality and Abby's muscular appearance to shield their story arcs from criticism makes the assumption that people from groups that the social justice crowd call marginalized can't fend for themselves or take criticism like everyone else?
 

LegendOfKage

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They were not going to kill Ellie just for the sake of killing her and many people involved including Marlene and Jerry were conflicted about it but felt that one life was worth sacrificing to save millions.
Nothing about the cure was certain. Even the first game makes a point of saying that other attempts with people who were immune resulted in their death and no cure. Plus, of course that's not their call to make.

Joel in many ways was worse since he admitted to ambushing and killing innocent people in the past for nothing other than their possessions.
Nothing even close to that happened in the original game. That sounds like rewriting the character for the sequel, which I'm sure is yet another reason people hated the game.
 
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Vaelka

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The way I look at it.

Production value = top class.

Gameplay = generic and repetitive.

Story = not as original as the writers thought it was and also poorly executed.

There's a ton of stuff in the story that really bothers me too because the game is marketed as and tries so hard to present itself as '' realistic '', lika Dina falling through the roof and acting like she broke her spine then being fine in the next scene.
It's as if they just had to get Dina and Ellie into the situation they were in so they wrote it in an incredibly dumb way and then it gets even worse with the whole strangling thing and a dude just walking in stopping him from killing them just to say that he needs to kill them.
There's so much of this in the game and it becomes pretty hard to take it seriously.

Same with Abby being muscular anyone who says that it's '' realistic '' because there was a gym and food is completely clueless about how any of this works.
And to anyone who does it comes across as really cheesy and dumb for a game that takes itself so seriously.
It wouldn't have bothered me at all in most games but in a game like this I just think it's stupid regardless of gender.

It's not an awful game it's just not as great as it or people and the games media thinks and acts like it is.
It's kinda like a random dumb action movie with pretentious writing that happens to have a really high budget.
It's not absolutely horrible to sit through or the worst thing ever but it also feels a bit ridiculous with the amount of praise it gets, and it almost makes me feel embarrassed for the industry.
Like that's the best we can do?
The insane levels of hate is over the top too tho.
 
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Ulysses 31

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There's a ton of stuff in the story that really bothers me too because the game is marketed as and tries so hard to present itself as '' realistic '', lika Dina falling through the roof and acting like she broke her spine then being fine in the next scene.
It's as if they just had to get Dina and Ellie into the situation they were in so they wrote it in an incredibly dumb way and then it gets even worse with the whole strangling thing and a dude just walking in stopping him from killing them just to say that he needs to kill them.
There's so much of this in the game and it becomes pretty hard to take it seriously.
The game's also strange when it comes to knocking people out, how many times we seen someone get knocked out in 1 hit but Joel somehow can take several golf swings to the head and not be knocked out.
 
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Foorbits

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My take:
- Graphics and Sound: Top notch, untouched besides maybe Red Dead Redemption 2
- Gameplay: Typical Naughty Dog mess. Kinda fun but not at the same time.
- Story: Bloated, forced plot points, but the flashback scenes with Ellie and Joel are among the best written and directed I've seen in gaming.
 
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EruditeHobo

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Even with the vaccine possible there no way they could distribute enough to people to save humanity, in fact things might get even worse because other group of factions also try get their hands of the limited number vaccine so there would be even more war and conflict.

This doesn't matter, at all.

You're not engaging with what the story is telling you and what is being clearly laid out as "true" within the world of the story.
This is just pointless nitpickery... you could do this with every single story that's ever been told. Don't do this.
 
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It's really a weird thing but going back to PS4 games, the ones I've found by far the most jarring visually are TLOU 2 and Uncharted 4. It's really weird - I always found them the most beautiful games of all before I got a PS5, but they both look really soft and have horrible muddy textures now. I don't think it's just the relatively low resolution, either, it seems to be the actual textures themselves.
I just booted TLOU2 on my PS4 on a smaller screen and imo it looks better in 30fps. I think Naughty Dog was careful to cut corners on the textures/visuals to make it look super beautiful in 30 frames.

Those flaws are exposed at 60fps. I will say that the lack of haptics is noticeable on the PS5 and the PS4. They definitely need to patch that in at some point.
 

Hunnybun

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I just booted TLOU2 on my PS4 on a smaller screen and imo it looks better in 30fps. I think Naughty Dog was careful to cut corners on the textures/visuals to make it look super beautiful in 30 frames.

Those flaws are exposed at 60fps. I will say that the lack of haptics is noticeable on the PS5 and the PS4. They definitely need to patch that in at some point.

Hmm, is that a thing? I don't think I've ever seen a jump to 60fps that ever did anything other than hugely improve a game's visuals.

How would that even work?

Also, I noticed the same thing with Uncharted 4 and that's still at 30fps.
 

GermanZepp

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I didn't like the direction they took with the story, dialogue and characthers. I didin't like start upgrading the skills againg with abby. Technically the game was awesome.
 

Ulysses 31

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This doesn't matter, at all.

You're not engaging with what the story is telling you and what is being clearly laid out as "true" within the world of the story.
This is just pointless nitpickery... you could do this with every single story that's ever been told. Don't do this.
It matters for the believability of one of the sides in that story's conflict.

The world building hasn't caught up to the claims the story makes at that point.
 

sainraja

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Posts like yours shows that some of you still dont get it

I'm not saying that people who deslike the game "dont understand" the game. But some cant quite see it from other perspectives.

Yes, Joel deserved to die. He was a fucking mass murdered, ffs. He killed not only Abby's father and the Fireflies, but how many innocent people when he was younger with Tommy?

So many "Joels" for so many Ellies were probably killed by his hands.

From Abby's perspective, he was a jerk. And Ellie was also a monster.

Ellie killed all of Abby's friends + boyfriend + her dog + a fucking babby because of Joel

Imagine Abby killing Joel, Tommy, Dina, and pretty much everyone that Ellie ever cared about because of her fathers death

In the end, Ellie is a freaking monster in ways that Abby never was.

But we brush it off because we know Ellie, we feel her pain for Joel's death and etc.
In the world of The Last of Us, everyone is guilty of something which is why I think they shouldn't have focused too much on the revenge aspect. Although I get it now. Joel wasn't an angel. But no one in that world really was.....outside of Ellie I guess but she became a monster by the end, anyway.

All of them walk the path of destruction where their actions will equally affect someone else in similar ways....the line has to be drawn somewhere. I would have preferred a mix where they focused on character stories along with the story of the world they were living in, with the infection also taking some of the focus.
 
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Saber

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This doesn't matter, at all.

You're not engaging with what the story is telling you and what is being clearly laid out as "true" within the world of the story.
This is just pointless nitpickery... you could do this with every single story that's ever been told. Don't do this.

Doesn't matter for who? You? Just because you can't produce a valid argument doesn't mean its true lol
 

Ulysses 31

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No, it doesn't. The believability of their ability to maximize Ellie's sacrifice is not what the story is interested in. That's not the point at all.
Even if that's not the point of the story according to you, why should players ignore that after the whole journey with Ellie and Joel?