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[Lime]

In my experience, people usually hail the re-imagined Lara Croft since TR2013 as an empowered and more ‘respectable’ (for lack of a better word) iconic character that is less visually exclusionary. Sometimes some people even go as far as to say that Lara Croft is finally a decent character that marks the point where the series finally became acceptable. You have many instances of this, such as 1, 2, 3 . Some of this discussion was already covered in this thread from last year

From a purely visual perspective, I completely agree that the re-imaginary was a much better and much more believable design that actually seemed realistic to various degrees. Before this visual reboot, it was pretty evident that Eidos back in the day took the character of Lara Croft and used her as a means to market the games with cheap titillation in order to appeal to straight boys / men with disposable income. (Sidenote: the character was originally supposed to be South-American, but Eidos decided against it and made her a White Brit instead). Yet, as evidenced in many different testimonies by girls and women (such as this research article, or Latoya Peterson & her documentary series on Girl Gamers), Lara Croft was an important character to them in their childhood despite of the obvious sexual objectification in marketing (this is not me condoning the sexual objectification, just nuancing how players use games to their own end).

However, in terms of characterization I think the rebooted Lara Croft / Tomb Raider pales in comparison to the classic, but less-visually inclusive design of the earlier Tomb Raider. I kinda feel like this point is something that flies under the radar when people talk about the reboot of the new Lara Croft, especially when the games are construed as empowering and "feminist".

• The first game was her origin story in which she had to overcome the struggles of survival to become the Tomb Raider. For this she cried and moaned consistently with several gasps and displays of exhaustion. This point seems acceptable, since it's supposed to be a Coming of Age / Origin story, so I'm all for giving some leeway to Crystal Dynamics
• Yet the weakness evident in TR2013 was accompanied by the off-putting remark by the developers of trying to say that (male) players would want to protect her, and the fact that 3 different male characters had to save her throughout the narrative.
• Then, when Rise of the Tomb Raider came around, I expected strong-willed (murderous) Lara would be much more prominent and prevalent - her Origin story had ended, so it was time for a more adult and hard-eyed protagonist. Yet what I experienced in ROTR was constant moaning, exhaustion, gasps, and display of vulnerability. I thought the whole Coming of Age thing was over, yet the character of Lara Croft continued to display the same vulnerable characteristics from the first game. The voice director, the animation director, the script writer, and the actor seem to simply repeat the same character without realizing the consequences of the prior character development.

Thus, Lara Croft is once more a character who seems like she's about to cry or gain PTSD from all the trials and tribulations she goes through (while if you imagined a male adventurous video game character doing the same seems laughable). Personally the whole vulnerable female character type is so really annoying. It's a form of veiled sexism where female characters act fragile, exhausted and doubtful while doing the same actions a male hero would do. It's really grating and eye-rolling to listen to since it's also only the female main characters that express this vulnerability. The concept artist did a good job visually rebooting Lara but the writer and director of the new direction is not executed very well. I feel like reading the whole "you'll want to protect her" along with the continuous depiction of the iconic character as vulnerable and fragile

Grandwizard summarized the point pretty well:

Just like the original design was sexed up to match the gaming audience, the new design of weak crying constantly vulnerable Lara was too. It's the new hot trend of male power fantasies in gaming to be the strong man leading the vulnerable female through danger like in Bioshock Infinite or The Last of Us. Crystal Dynamics just chased that trend except put the player not in the role of Lara, but in an outside entity that leads her by the hand and would 'want to protect her'. It's still gross just in a different way.

Personally I always prefer badass, capable and adventurous Lara who didn't need an origin story of almost being raped and traumatized to explain away her badassness. She was just awesome because she was.

Also Rihanna Prachett has a bad track record in games. TR2013's cast was a who's who of racial stereotypes and shouldn't be put on any pedestal for good representation and diversity in games. Lara has three different men die to save her in that game. THREE.

That is to say there’s nothing wrong with being weak or vulnerable. It's entirely okay and fine to have weak and vulnerable characters in entertainment media. I just feel like it’s much more common when it comes to female characters and taking an iconic, empowered "badass" characterization and turn it into this trope is somewhat disappointing (especially when media outlets hail it as "progressive and feminist").

This video highlights how eye-rolling this can be.

Sidenote: Not sure if the thread title is worded properly. What I wanted to get at that is that the new Lara Croft is not really that 'progressive' as some media institutions claim to be and that the reboot characterization is more insidious in how it portrays a previously strong-willed iconic female character as a vulnerable girl in need of protection and help. So it's not necessarily a "setback" for female representation overall in video games, but it is a setback in regards to an iconic character within a medium otherwise devoid of female protagonists who are treated as equals to their male peers.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think where I disagree here is I didn't really perceive her character in Rise to be like that at all. Hell, if anything it was the opposite - she was almost too generic of an action hero, a superhero character that just kind of wiped out the opposition and everyone looked to for help despite a lack of a logical reason to do so.

There's a lot of flaws that can be pointed out about her characterization in Rise, but frail and vulnerable aren't really ones I'd throw in there.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I definitely agree. It's unfortunate some people can't seem to look past the old Lara's boobs and, inexplicably, judge the character solely on her appearance. It's kind of ironic that same people who would use old Lara's oversexed design as an example of objectification can't seem to look at her as anything, but a pair of boobs.

I miss the old, confident, sassy, mature tomb raider who was an expert historian and explorer, could hold her own against anything from armed mobs to T-Rex's and could use her feminine charms when it was beneficial.

 

[plasmawave]

More like a bipolar psychopath.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I don't think Camilla Luddington's breathy performance as Lara is reason to decry it as anti feminist tbh. She doesn't run around making quips like Nathan Drake but I don't think she's ridiculous in the other direction. She falls firmly in the middle.

I would also agree with the above post in that Lara is not "weak" or "vulnerable" at any point in Rise, really. If anything she has just become a stock video game character that gets the job done. I still don't quite understand why people criticize these games so much for their characterization and writing when they are very standard AAA fare.

Would I like Lara to be completely confident and self-assured and, perhaps more in line with this thread, "in control" of the situation like she was in the old games? Certainly, but I don't think her portrayal or her actions in the two games we have so far are a step back in anyway. Just a sidestep character-wise and an entire marathon forward presentationally.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I definitely agree. It's unfortunate some people can't seem to look past the old Lara's boobs and, inexplicably, judge the character solely on her appearance. It's kind of ironic that same people who would use old Lara's oversexed design as an example of objectification can't seem to look at her as anything, but a pair of boobs.

I miss the old, confident, sassy, mature tomb raider who was an expert historian and explorer, could hold her own against anything from armed mobs to T-Rex's and could use her feminine charms when it was beneficial.

What an important facet of cave diving...

 

[hawk2025]

I'm not sure I agree with the main premise of your point, but nevertheless her characterization in Rise was appalling.

Her incentives and motivation are poorly developed, and the whole game -- even leaving aside the female representation -- was a really weird spin on the White Savior plot that didn't even make much sense.

I can't make heads or tails of whether or not TR2013 and Rise were a setback for female representation, but the relationship between Lara and the native peoples -- even the way the natives respond and react to Lara and her motivations during the game -- is weird and condescending.

 

[Lime]

I think where I disagree here is I didn't really perceive her character in Rise to be like that at all. Hell, if anything it was the opposite - she was almost too generic of an action hero, a superhero character that just kind of wiped out the opposition and everyone looked to for help despite a lack of a logical reason to do so.

There's a lot of flaws that can be pointed out about her characterization in Rise, but frail and vulnerable aren't really ones I'd throw in there.

I'm not sure we played the same game? The entire opening segment on the mountain consists of her crying and moaning and the animation work having her act fragile and bothered (e.g. clutching her arms around herself from the cold - look no further than Jonah who doesn't seem to be bothered at all). You can imagine how weird this would be by gender-swapping the character into a typically masculine character (say, Nathan Drake) who would never clutch themselves from the cold while wearing a big thick parka jacket.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

I dunno, the series' moment-to-moment action always seemed to be a bit grittier than something like Uncharted, where things take a more realistic toll on people. But I would chalk that up to the story's almost vaguely horror/survival elements (they're not present in the gameplay but the story really wants to push that M rating sometimes) and I wouldn't say it reflects poorly on the character.

I'm usually supportive of arguments against setting back female representation in video games but I can't back this one up.

You can imagine how weird this would be by gender-swapping the character into a typically masculine character (say, Nathan Drake) who would never clutch themselves from the cold while wearing a big thick parka jacket.

I don't find this mental image weird at all. I mean, he passed out in the cold in Uncharted 2.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I'm not sure we played the same game? The entire opening segment on the mountain consists of her crying and moaning and the animation work having her act fragile and bothered (e.g. clutching her arms around herself from the cold). You can imagine how weird this would be by gender-swapping the character into a typically masculine character (say, Nathan Drake) who would never clutch themselves from the cold while wearing a big thick parka jacket.

but the game has a much more realistic tone than Uncharted. Lara isn't like Nate, and she doesn't just shrug this stuff off. You could say that making her more "grounded" may have been to make her more vulnerable but I don't think I would agree. It fits the story tonally and it affects all of the surrounding characters in the same way.

 

[Sanctuary]

What an important facet of cave diving...

She did, you know, encounter human opposition quite often. Or did you actually even play any of the earlier games?

In terms of whether or not the modern Lara is "more realistic" or whatever, I can't really get into a debate over that in any way simply because of how she's literally The Terminator when it comes to sustaining damage and shrugging it off a few seconds, or minutes later. That just completely ruins all possibility of looking at her in any way other than a videogame character.

 

[CyberPunked]

People always like to attach an agenda to design decisions...

 

[injurai]

Improved design, worse characterization.

I don't think anyone seriously championed her as a bastion of progress for female representation.

In fact people have been bemoaning her characterization since the team started talking about how they designed her. With the launch only solidifying people's concerns.

 

[Shaanyboi]

She did, you know, encounter human opposition quite often. Or did you actually even play any of the earlier games?

I played them plenty. I also find the notion of needing Lara to "use her feminine charms" as a dated shitty trope associated with female leads.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

People always like to attach an agenda to design decisions...

Not that I really agree with the purpose of this thread, but you do know that literally the whole act of "character design" is about communicating as much info as possible about that character in a unique and interesting way? Therefore literally every character that has been designed will have an "agenda" attached.

 

[semiconscious]

Just like the original design was sexed up to match the gaming audience, the new design of weak crying constantly vulnerable Lara was too. It's the new hot trend of male power fantasies in gaming to be the strong man leading the vulnerable female through danger like in Bioshock Infinite or The Last of Us. Crystal Dynamics just chased that trend except put the player not in the role of Lara, but in an outside entity that leads her by the hand and would 'want to protect her'. It's still gross just in a different way.

Personally I always prefer badass, capable and adventurous Lara who didn't need an origin story of almost being raped and traumatized to explain away her badassness. She was just awesome because she was.

Also Rihanna Prachett has a bad track record in games. TR2013's cast was a who's who of racial stereotypes and shouldn't be put on any pedestal for good representation and diversity in games. Lara has three different men die to save her in that game. THREE.

she was also captured (aka 'helpless') three different times ...

badass lara croft will always be the lara croft. accept no substitutes...

 

[hawk2025]

but the game has a much more realistic tone than Uncharted. Lara isn't like Nate, and she doesn't just shrug this stuff off. You could say that making her more "grounded" may have been to make her more vulnerable but I don't think I would agree. It fits the story tonally and it affects all of the surrounding characters in the same way.

What, exactly, affects the surrounding characters?

Everyone in both games exist solely to serve Lara and revolve around her.

None of the characters in either game evolve, they are all catalysts for Lara's journey, and nothing else.

The self-sacrificial nerd with a love interest, the damsel in distress, the father figure that perishes, the loyal friend that gets captured, the friendly natives that help you fight and accept her motivations... Everyone in the game is a prop.

People always like to attach an agenda to design decisions...

Design decisions always have agendas, conscious or not.

 

[lightskintwin]

I wouldn't say a setback, because her no longer existing headlining a well received, triple AAA title would be a much bigger setback. However as much as I love and enjoy the rebooted game and sequel, the writing and characterizations are by far the weakest parts. The gameplay is so strong that a lot of the issues dealing with Lara Croft could be easily fixed simply by removing most of it and keeping the story minimal with just enough motivation for the player to know what's going on in order to continue playing to the final boss.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

What, exactly, affects the surrounding characters?

Everyone in both games exist solely to serve Lara and revolve around her.

None of the characters in either game evolve, they are all catalysts for Lara's journey, and nothing else.

The self-sacrificial nerd with a love interest, the damsel in distress, the father figure that perishes, the loyal friend that gets captured, the friendly natives that help you fight and accept her motivations... Everyone in the game is a prop.

That post was referring to the animations Lara displays while reacting to the harsh environment, which does affect the other characters too. Not talking story.

 

[CHC]

I think so as well. I mean, it's highly debatable, but playing through the game I found nothing particularly appealing about her. She wasn't a character I felt was especially respectable, admirable, or even believable at times. By the end of it, it really came across (to me, at least) that her constant moaning, gasping and exasperation was a cheap way to try to get me to relate. Almost a weird form of "pain porn" where I'm supposed to feel some kind of connection to the character by guiding through these horrible ordeals and hearing every groan and moan. Really didn't care for that.

In some weird way I almost feel that the old Lara - while obviously designed in large part to be titillating - was more powerful, and someone I would have a little more respect for. She was filthy rich, dealt with crazy stuff totally fearlessly, and was a bit of a charming scoundrel type. New Lara just feels compromised, and frankly, I'm not really sure what I am supposed to think of her as? It's like they worked so hard to try to avoid archetypes or cliches that there is little left to actually connect with.

 

[Lime]

I don't find this mental image weird at all. I mean, he passed out in the cold in Uncharted 2.

but the game has a much more realistic tone than Uncharted. Lara isn't like Nate, and she doesn't just shrug this stuff off. You could say that making her more "grounded" may have been to make her more vulnerable but I don't think I would agree. It fits the story tonally and it affects all of the surrounding characters in the same way.

I don't want to equate the two and they're two entirely different characters and narratives, it's just an easy example to emphasize the vulnerability the character displays (which is usually not represented with male characters). Also, see my edit with game footage to understand what I'm referring to in terms of characterization.

Improved design, worse characterization.

I don't think anyone seriously championed her as a bastion of progress for female representation.

Agreed with the first point, but in regards to your second point: maybe the authors weren't serious, but the articles I mention in the first paragraph champion the new character as a bastion of progress for female representation.

 

[Manu]

I've said it before: the ending of Tomb Raider 2013 should be Lara getting PTSD from almost dying a dozen times, being tortured, having had to kill hundreds of men and watching all of her friends die one by one in front of her.

And yet we get a screen saying "A SURVIVOR IS BORN." Somehow I'm supposed to believe that Lara leaves the island thinking "gee, that was fun! It really made me want to be a globe-trotting adventurer!"

 

[Balb]

I wouldn't say a setback, because her no longer existing headlining a well received, triple AAA title would be a much bigger setback. However as much as I love and enjoy the rebooted game and sequel, the writing and characterizations are by far the weakest parts. The gameplay is so strong that a lot of the issues dealing with Lara Croft could be easily fixed simply by removing most of it and keeping the story minimal with just enough motivation for the player to know what's going on in order to continue playing to the final boss.

Yep, the two games are really well made, but the writing and characters are baaaaaaaad.

 

[Lexad]

I never felt like I was protecting her. I thought she was acting realistically to horrific conditions, regardless of male/female. She is the best representation of women in VG that I have ever seen.

 

[Sanctuary]

I played them plenty. I also find the notion of needing Lara to "use her feminine charms" as a dated shitty trope associated with female leads.

Is this just something you want to be offended by? Because from what I recall having actual human interactions a few times in my life, social graces and charisma do exist, and they aren't necessarily equal among all people either. While it might have been exaggerated, it's not entirely unrealistic.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

In terms of whether or not the modern Lara is "more realistic" or whatever, I can't really get into a debate over that in any way simply because of how she's literally The Terminator when it comes to sustaining damage and shrugging it off a few seconds, or minutes later. That just completely ruins all possibility of looking at her in any way other than a videogame character.

The modern Tomb Raider games always struck me as a game where they made the story thinking it might be this pretty challenging, brutal and realistic survival game...and then ended up throwing in a very easy TPS game instead.

I'm personally not bothered by cutscene-to-gameplay dissonance but I know others might be. I kind of wish the game was a little less brutal in the QTE sequences - some of the times when you fail, the death animation is really disturbing.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yet the weakness evident in TR2013 was accompanied by the off-putting remark by the developers of trying to say that (male) players would want to protect her, and the fact that 3 different male characters had to save her throughout the narrative.

Was this a statement from the developers or the marketing department?

I don't mind Lara being vulnerable, it makes her more human. It wouldn't be believable to me if she were a female Rambo going through hell with no emotion.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Is this just something you want to be offended by? Because from what I recall having actual human interactions a few times in my life, social graces and charisma do exist, and they aren't necessarily equal among all people either. While it might have been exaggerated, it's not entirely unrealistic.

There's a difference between "social graces" and "feminine charm" and yes, a female character written by probably straight men who uses her "feminine charms" (read: breasts) to get places, when played straight, should raise eyebrows.

You don't see Nathan Drake attending events in a low cut suit, baring his chest full of hair, which he then literally rips apart to allow him to move properly during action sequences and in the process reveals his upper thighs and abs.

 

[CyberPunked]

What, exactly, affects the surrounding characters?

Everyone in both games exist solely to serve Lara and revolve around her.

None of the characters in either game evolve, they are all catalysts for Lara's journey, and nothing else.

The self-sacrificial nerd with a love interest, the damsel in distress, the father figure that perishes, the loyal friend that gets captured, the friendly natives that help you fight and accept her motivations... Everyone in the game is a prop.




Design decisions always have agendas, conscious or not.

Not that I really agree with the purpose of this thread, but you do know that literally the whole act of "character design" is about communicating as much info as possible about that character in a unique and interesting way? Therefore literally every character that has been designed will have an "agenda" attached.

Rather, people like to attach political, social, or whatever kind of agenda you associate with slightly too much moaning from a character, to design decisions.

Legend trilogy still the best Lara by far. RIP badass Lara.
Just like the original design was sexed up to match the gaming audience, the new design of weak crying constantly vulnerable Lara was too. It's the new hot trend of male power fantasies in gaming to be the strong man leading the vulnerable female through danger like in Bioshock Infinite or The Last of Us.

This is a perfect example of attaching an agenda where there isn't one. Yeah, all developers are purposely making design decisions for male fantasies...

 

[jdstorm]

Unfortunately this will always be an issue as no one can agree on what it means to be female.

What do I mean by this? Masculinity has often been defined simply. Dating back to the days of the hunter gatherer It's been about having the biggest muscles and most resources. Obviously that doesn't express the full neuance of what it means to be male, but it's pretty close.

Feminity has never been that simple. As what it means to be a woman means different things to different women. This diversity within the community has lead to a variety of stereotypes and often the same behaviour can be viewed differently by different women. Take for instance the polarising figure of Kim Kardashian. To some her frequent posing nude is an empowering and liberating example of a confident woman secure in her sexuality. To others it's seen as a shameful and trashy use of sexuality by an insecure woman desperate for her 15 minutes of fame to last as long as possible.

How does this relate to Lara Croft. It means her every action is going to be viewed and analysed through the lense of the reviewers own preconceived notion of what it means to be a woman. To some a grunt is the sign of a person completing a challenging activity requiring intense physical exertion. To others it's some form of sexuality that's specifically designed to pander to the male player.

To me New Lara has the characterisation consistant with what it means to be a modern woman in 2016 and a degree of agency not often given to fictional characters. Especially female ones. Which is about as much as any fictional character can hope for from their creators. Lara's story might not fit anyone's ideal. But she's living her own story and that's the most important thing.

 

[injurai]

Agreed with the first point, but in regards to your second point: maybe the authors weren't serious, but the articles I mention in the first paragraph champion the new character as a bastion of progress for female representation.

Well, the media is the media and everyone has to take a stance and shape public opinion. But down in the depths of forums I rarely saw people without complaint.

That being said all my girl friends really loved the game, so having more games with a female character that delivers compelling gameplay certainly is a step forward.

 

[potatohead]

New Lara is not the Lara I grew up with so by default it is not the one I want.

I much prefer the sassy kick-ass version that I got to know on PS2.

Sure, not a deep character, but neither is the new one. And the PS2 one was just a fun and cool character.

It's like having Nathan Drake be a super cool snarky everyone-loves-him-and-wants-to-be-him character and then turn him into a whiny shell of his former self.

But it is what it is.

Was this a statement from the developers or the marketing department?

I don't mind Lara being vulnerable, it makes her more human. It wouldn't be believable to me if she were a female Rambo going through hell with no emotion.

Lara showed emotion plenty of times in the PS2 trilogy while still being a badass acrobat gunslinger.

They aren't and don't have to be mutually exclusive (unless one joins that narrative dissonance crowd and hates everything fun).

 

[LordRaptor]

I never thought the OG Lara's characterisation was bad (rich girl thrillseeker) or needed to traumatise her to provide an excuse why a woman could be an action hero in the first place.

Elsa Bloodstone channeling original Lara

 

[Sanctuary]

The modern Tomb Raider games always struck me as a game where they made the story thinking it might be this pretty challenging, brutal and realistic survival game...and then ended up throwing in a very easy TPS game instead.

I'm personally not bothered by cutscene-to-gameplay dissonance but I know others might be. I kind of wish the game was a little less brutal in the QTE sequences - some of the times when you fail, the death animation is really disturbing.

I mean, all of those hundred foot drops she sustains without breaking a single bone? Or how about when she gets impaled on some rebar, limps for maybe twenty minutes and then ends up healing like Wolverine? It's not even the overly graphic death scenes that I find ridiculous; it's the way she takes pretty much any environmental damage, most of which would seriously maim most people, yet she barely even gets stunned from it. She's literally a Terminator.

There's a difference between "social graces" and "feminine charm" and yes, a female character written by probably straight men who uses her "feminine charms" (read: breasts) to get places, when played straight, should raise eyebrows.

You don't see Nathan Drake attending events in a low cut suit, baring his chest full of hair, which he then literally rips apart to allow him to move properly during action sequences and in the process reveals his upper thighs and abs.

I understand that complaint, but that's not what I was talking about, and I'm not sure the poster who originally mentioned it was either.

 

[nynt9]

I agree with this too. 90s Lara was what was considered sexy by their target audience in the 90s. Modern Lara is what's considered sexy by their target audience now. There is no progress in her depiction. She's still designed with a male gaze and is objectified. She's also barely a character and just a vehicle for getting battered for the player's emotional reactions. It's pretty exploitative.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I played them plenty. I also find the notion of needing Lara to "use her feminine charms" as a dated shitty trope associated with female leads.

No different than Bond, or Indy, or any other male character using his male charm. It wasn't a defining part of her character, or even a large part, but it was another asset she used. Do you have a problem with that? Should she exhibit no personality whatsoever when interacting with other people?

I agree with this too. 90s Lara was what was considered sexy by their target audience in the 90s. Modern Lara is what's considered sexy by their target audience now. There is no progress in her depiction. She's still designed with a male gaze and is objectified.

This is what I'm talking about. Your post ENTIRELY ignores any characterization and focus solely on her design. Did you guys even play the old games? Did you know they had cutscenes? That she had a personality?

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

I don't want to equate the two and they're two entirely different characters and narratives, it's just an easy example to emphasize the vulnerability the character displays (which is usually not represented with male characters). Also, see my edit with game footage to understand what I'm referring to in terms of characterization.

I think it's great that they're using a character to show sides of player characters that we wouldn't usually see in a video game. If they're using a female to do it, then so be it. It's an interesting path to try and show a more vulnerable, honest depiction of an action hero. They get tired, they fail sometimes, they need help, they're afraid of things and react as I would to the environment.

(Again, not talking about the gameplay, just the cutscenes and interactive story bits.)

I don't know, I definitely get some of your complaints ("you'll want to protect her" was a terrible line) but I don't really see any sense that this is a female driven thing.

I mean, all of those hundred foot drops she sustains without breaking a single bone? Or how about when she gets impaled on some rebar, limps for maybe twenty minutes and then ends up healing like Wolverine? It's not even the overly graphic death scenes that I find ridiculous; it's the way she takes pretty much any environmental damage, most of which would seriously maim most people, yet she barely even gets stunned from it. She's literally a Terminator.

On a sliding scale between Uncharted and something completely and utterly realistic, the modern Tomb Raider games still fall closer to Uncharted. They're still pretty silly sometimes, and contain flat out supernatural elements.

Plus, at times, the writing is just bad. Those inconsistencies are pretty poor, I agree. But that doesn't mean we should just pretend the story doesn't have goals or a tone to be more realistic than your average action game.

 

[120v]

i mean, at the end of the day the developer's choice is pretty binary. either you have a dolled up super killer or one that "struggles". i don't think CD made groundbreaking decisions with the reboot but its Lara fucking Croft. only so much you can do

 

[Shaanyboi]

Is this just something you want to be offended by? Because from what I recall having actual human interactions a few times in my life, social graces and charisma do exist, and they aren't necessarily equal among all people either. While it might have been exaggerated, it's not entirely unrealistic.

Except the "honey pot" has already been commented on as a tired fucking trope. You're not talking about charisma, you're talking about a convenient excuse to sexualize a character.

No different than Bond, or Indy, or any other male character using his male charm. It wasn't a defining part of her character, or even a large part, but it was another asset she used. Do you have a problem with that? Should she exhibit no personality whatsoever when interacting with other people?

Bond is a creepy fucking rapist, let's not use him as some kind of positive example of anything.

 

[Fandangox]

Does it really matter? None of this characters are pushing the medium.

Here's an idea for the developers:

Create a storyline where Lara Croft gets breast cancer.

IMAGINE THE DRAMA of a vulnerable Lara Croft, still persisting in her wordly adventures, despite her illness, it needs fleshing out, no pun intended, but I guratantee the gaming world will be shocked, STUNNED, and moved at the effort to make Lara Croft's character more meaningful.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I disagree with your assumption that the story is trying to showcase Lara having PTSD considering no one ever brings it up during the story. Ana in Rise talks about her unhealthy obsession with wanting to complete her father's legacy but it's quickly dropped. I guess she shows signs of mental illness but the game makes it seem like it's no big deal.

 

[Bladenic]

I haven't played Rise yet but I knew I wasn't gonna escape Lara's constant sex moans and grunts.

I would like to take this opportunity however to state that Rihanna Pratchett is an atrocious writer. Just because a female writer is writing female characters doesn't make them good. Faith was basically not even a character in ME and Lara has her issues too.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Except the "honey pot" has already been commented on as a tired fucking trope. You're not talking about charisma, you're talking about a convenient excuse to sexualize a character.

Are we going to pretend the idea of a "honey pot" isn't just a sexist double standard where a woman is criticized for being charming/alluring/charismatic, while a male would be praised for it?

Bond is a creepy fucking rapist, let's not use him as some kind of positive example of anything.

I can't tell if you're intentionally misinterpreting what's being said or actually don't understand my point. The point is that male characters in leading action roles are known to use charm and charisma when interacting with people in non-combat settings. There's no reason a female character should be criticized for doing the same thing. Yes Bond takes it to crazy creepy levels, but that's besides the point.

 

[John Harker]

You're projecting a narrow, male-centric, "expected" view of what a "badass hero" needs to be. And I respectfully disagree.

She's a real attempt - attempt mind you, always room for improvement - to show depth to a person going through immense trauma and having to adapt who they are to survive.

It's also a video game, so ya know, killing.
But what you see as "weak," is actually the groundwork for a more nuanced persona.

They did a great job making her contemporary, considering her roots, and the need to contrast her to plenty of current male heroes.

Now, they can certainly make improvements with the other characters in these games and the overall story telling devices used and game bloat... But that's another topic

 

[Lexad]

There's a difference between "social graces" and "feminine charm" and yes, a female character written by probably straight men who uses her "feminine charms" (read: breasts) to get places, when played straight, should raise eyebrows.

You don't see Nathan Drake attending events in a low cut suit, baring his chest full of hair, which he then literally rips apart to allow him to move properly during action sequences and in the process reveals his upper thighs and abs.

Where does the new Lara do this?

 

[Sanctuary]

Except the "honey pot" has already been commented on as a tired fucking trope. You're not talking about charisma, you're talking about a convenient excuse to sexualize a character.

I'm glad that you can put words into my mouth, since I never said anything remotely indicating that. Regardless, certain subjects just can't be discussed around here without being twisted from harmless to objectification even when that's not what is going on.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

I find her incredibly boring. I hate the modern Tomb Raider games, and I completely despise the new Lara that Crystal Dynamics created.

I'm not even a fan of the original Lara or the older games in general. However, I can at least appreciate what those games were trying to do. The recent Tomb Raider games are easily the most generic modern video games in this industry. Absolutely nothing special or interesting about them.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Where does the new Lara do this?

The old Lara does

 

[SlickVic]

I watched that 'gasping' video. If I was trying to climb out of an overturned truck, get to the surface after swimming underwater, running through a collapsing tomb, trying not to shiver to death on a frozen mountain, etc I'd probably be gasping for breath as well. Hell, Lara does a much better job than I would in handling those tense situations. And to me, her ability to successful manage those encounters shows bravery and makes her a 'badass' character in my books. If that video is considered 'eye rolling' or shows signs of her weakness and frailty, then I suppose we just have a fundamental difference in our interpretations of those scenes and I'll just leave it at that.

Edit: In also bringing up the discussion of a male vs female hero in adventure games like this, I honestly do find it amusing when games portray a male hero doing the things listed above without even appearing to break a sweat. To me, it almost appears like those characters are being portrayed as gods (and perhaps in certain games like God of War, that is indeed the case), where nothing is truly exerting them. I have to admit that's not something I often pay attention to in games, but with Laura's 'gasping', I never had an issue with that, because it seemed like an appropriate human physiologic response to those situations, and someone like me probably would be gasping to the point of collapse in those situations (which would not make for a great video game admittedly).

 

[xRaizen]

I replayed the trilogy before TR2013 recently and have to say I miss OG Lara. Loved her sassy personality.