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I don't understand why people aren't calling out the atrocious weapon system in Elden Ring

TheDreadBaron

Gold Member
Damn I sure left my mark here.

btw the creativity I use is a PC trainer to obtain 10 million runes.
Just joshing you brother. I think declaring brash passionate statements about our favorite games and then arguing about it is part of the lifeblood of this place. I don’t care if anyone wants to use cheats in their own game, be it BotW or Elden Ring if it helps them enjoy it that’s a legitimate way to play. Does it undermine the game design? Sure, but that’s for the individual to decide. So right on!
 
Just joshing you brother. I think declaring brash passionate statements about our favorite games and then arguing about it is part of the lifeblood of this place. I don’t care if anyone wants to use cheats in their own game, be it BotW or Elden Ring if it helps them enjoy it that’s a legitimate way to play. Does it undermine the game design? Sure, but that’s for the individual to decide. So right on!
Yep. Single Player games don't care for cheats either way. Just don't invade people. It is your game and you play it your way.
 

Bragr

Member
If you start blaming the game - stop and go find out wtf is going on with your problem
Think about what you just said here.

If a game has some problematic design in any way, it's "our" problem. That's completely ridiculous.

Most of you probably don't like the game at all unless you get told what to do from guides and wikis.

There are parts in every FromSotware game that are so out there you can spend hours finding it or you have to look at guides. If any other game tried to pull that, like Spider-Man or something, everyone here would lose their shit. Every FromSoftware game has parts in it that have problems, like any other game. Considering their obscure nature, it's only natural that some parts of their games have issues at times with player direction. Which they all do, how absurdly resistant some of you are to accept this makes no sense. It doesn't make the games bad.
 

Tomeru

Member
Think about what you just said here.

If a game has some problematic design in any way, it's "our" problem. That's completely ridiculous.

Most of you probably don't like the game at all unless you get told what to do from guides and wikis.

There are parts in every FromSotware game that are so out there you can spend hours finding it or you have to look at guides. If any other game tried to pull that, like Spider-Man or something, everyone here would lose their shit. Every FromSoftware game has parts in it that have problems, like any other game. Considering their obscure nature, it's only natural that some parts of their games have issues at times with player direction. Which they all do, how absurdly resistant some of you are to accept this makes no sense. It doesn't make the games bad.
I said if you start blaming the game then pause. Think what you have an issue with. Blaming it on bad design automatically is a, errm, weird direction to take.

Are you saying that its bad design to be obscure?
 

Braag

Member
It wasn't that big of an issue in the previous From games seeing as they weren't 100+ hour long games. If you wanted to try another build or weapons you just started a new playthrough.
Elden Ring is a long games and the thought of having to start all over again just to try out something new is unintuitive to say the least. At least you can respec so that's great, but I agree that changing weapons is very costly and bit of a hassle.
 

Azurro

Gold Member
I never played a game that has so many barriers for a simple weapon change. I almost feel like I have to restart the entire game just to use a new weapon.

I'm towards the end of the game. I have a weapon I have been using for around 40 hours that is upgraded to + 8 that I am sick and tired of. I want to use a sword that is fast, but any other sword of that nature needs completely different attributes to work. I had to respec all my skills toward an INT focus and use all my smithing stones on it. I did so.

But the new weapon turned out to be disappointing, so I had to respec my character back to the old stats to keep progressing in the game.

I have TONS of weapons, but almost all of them require different player stats, and now I have nowhere near the smithing stones needed to upgrade any one of them to a usable level. I know there are items I can give to the crones so I can buy smithing stones, but it's almost impossible to find them all without guides. Same with the larvae I need for respec, I only have one left.

I either have to use guides (which is like cheating for me) or restart the game so I can re-find enough resources to upgrade a new weapon. It's forcing you to replay massive parts of the game to scrounge for upgrade materials or start the game over.

FromSoftware has been doing stuff like this for a long time, intentionally designing systems in ways that require players to use the internet to find things out, it's free marketing for them if players do that, it's incredibly cheap. But this weapon system right here is complete nonsense. I'm not sure if people are too afraid to call out dumb stuff in excellent games, but this is some bullshit.

I'm confused, do you also get angry when in an RPG not every party member can use every weapon in the game? It's a game where you specialise towards a class, it's actually quite flexible in this aspect. Hell, you can even re spec your character if you feel like you messed up where you placed your upgrades when you leveled up. You can also buy smithing stones, and it's quite quick to farm enough souls to bring up a weapon from base level to at least +7.

I don't understand why you are upset to be honest, you just sound like you expect this to be Devil May Cry.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Reading through the comments we can tell who actually put a significant amount of time to learn the game are.

Maybe a 5-10 hour Rachet and Clank Rift Apart or Mario Odyssey would be better and not break there p**y?
 

Spaceman292

Member
I can relate OP - in prior Souls games you're be able to swing about 70% of weapons with an average character build and some of those that you can't, you can at least get away with two-handing. I have about fifty weapons in Elden Ring and I bet forty of them have red crosses next to them and I'm about level 54 right now.
Why do so many people in this thread not know how RPGs work? You're not meant to be able to use every weapon.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Many comments here tell of people who play the game wrong.

The internet is your friend here. The community is there to help you understand the game better and play better. You can certainly finish the game without any outside help, but you will never fully understand all this shit unless you are commited to it. If you start blaming the game - stop and go find out wtf is going on with your problem, because chances are you just don't fully understand something.

Go read and educate yourselves, its not cheating, these games are a team effort project. We've all been there, to some extent.
I think this is the perfect summa of how to downplay valid criticism of Souls games.

It’s a 100-hour adventure with so many options, they say. It’s an RPG and experimentation is required, they say. But apparently there’s a “wrong” way to play it, they also say.

The game can’t have a problem and couldn’t be better in any way, if you have problems it’s you who don’t understand something.

The game is deliberately obscure and if any other popular game was even half as obtuse as any From game the backlash would be egregious, but hey, it’s a team effort project, the community is there to help you.

”Educate yourselves”. For a video game.
 

Tomeru

Member
I think this is the perfect summa of how to downplay valid criticism of Souls games.

It’s a 100-hour adventure with so many options, they say. It’s an RPG and experimentation is required, they say. But apparently there’s a “wrong” way to play it, they also say.

The game can’t have a problem and couldn’t be better in any way, if you have problems it’s you who don’t understand something.

The game is deliberately obscure and if any other popular game was even half as obtuse as any From game the backlash would be egregious, but hey, it’s a team effort project, the community is there to help you.

”Educate yourselves”. For a video game.
Well, if you dont know how a game works, then is it not possible to play it "wrong"?

Also, yes. Educate yourselves if you have problems. The obscure nature of these games make the community effort all the more important. Why is this a problem?
 
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BbMajor7th

Member
Why do so many people in this thread not know how RPGs work? You're not meant to be able to use every weapon.
I'm comparing their last five RPGs with their latest RPG. The attribute requirements for weapons are noticeably higher than they have been in previous titles. Do you want to engage with that argument or not?
 

22•22

Doesnt need recognition
Awkward The Simpsons GIF
 

Bragr

Member
I'm confused, do you also get angry when in an RPG not every party member can use every weapon in the game? It's a game where you specialise towards a class, it's actually quite flexible in this aspect. Hell, you can even re spec your character if you feel like you messed up where you placed your upgrades when you leveled up. You can also buy smithing stones, and it's quite quick to farm enough souls to bring up a weapon from base level to at least +7.

I don't understand why you are upset to be honest, you just sound like you expect this to be Devil May Cry.
You didn't read what I said. I am not talking about being able to use every weapon, I am talking how even different swords require completely different builds, and if you combine that with all the stones you need to test weapons, it creates too many barriers to try new things. It's a bad system.

Try to upgrade and test 2-3 weapons late in the game with no guides, and you will see what I mean.
 

Clear

Gold Member
I think this is the perfect summa of how to downplay valid criticism of Souls games.

I disagree, its a pretty solid counter-argument to a bunch of general complaints where the fault lies with the user and not the program.

For example:

It’s a 100-hour adventure with so many options, they say. It’s an RPG and experimentation is required, they say. But apparently there’s a “wrong” way to play it, they also say.

Experimentation in no way implies that the process is "safe" or guaranteed to produce positive results. An experiment is an adventure, and failure is an option. The whole idea is that you learn, and in the end gain from that understanding.

Its not contradictory. You seem to be conflating opportunity with outcome.


The game is deliberately obscure and if any other popular game was even half as obtuse as any From game the backlash would be egregious, but hey, it’s a team effort project, the community is there to help you.

”Educate yourselves”. For a video game.

Again, I don't see how this is inherently bad.

The premise of these games, simply put is; "here is the problem, and here are some basic tools to get you started on solving that problem."
Where FROM's stuff departs from most games is that they also supply a whole slew of advanced tools and techniques but doesn't immediately highlight them. The concept being as you get comfortable with these basics, you'll likely run across these other things and feel not only empowered, but rewarded by their discovery.

If you want to expedite this process, you can look for insight in community-type resources. Because when millions of people are working together (albeit independently) things are way more rapid than by yourself.
 
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Azurro

Gold Member
You didn't read what I said. I am not talking about being able to use every weapon, I am talking how even different swords require completely different builds, and if you combine that with all the stones you need to test weapons, it creates too many barriers to try new things. It's a bad system.

Try to upgrade and test 2-3 weapons late in the game with no guides, and you will see what I mean.

You have swords that scale with strength, you have swords that scale with dex, those are the ones I normally use and I never have a problem with weapon variety, that's my build I can use long swords, great swords, short swords, axes, great axes and so on. I have seen swords that are not for my build, but that's ok, there are different classes in the game, if I want bad enough to use the swords in those classes, I can re spec.

Just because you are expecting the swords to be interchangeable across every class doesn't mean that the design decision is wrong.
 

Bragr

Member
I said if you start blaming the game then pause. Think what you have an issue with. Blaming it on bad design automatically is a, errm, weird direction to take.

Are you saying that its bad design to be obscure?
Of course not, but when you have an entire game filled with obscure paths and items, it's bound to have some issues at some point. Do you really think FromSoftware is 100% perfect in its design? There are paths and items in Elden Ring, and most FromSoftware games, that go too far and become too obscure, or overestimate how many players will discover them.

For example, there is a part in the game where you can't fast-travel unless you rest at a site of grace. The game doesn't tell you that, and that is stupid and can lead a lot of players to a lot of frustration.

I think FromSoftware is likely industry-leading in their player direction, they are genius at it, but some of their systems don't work as well as others. I mean, 80% of the people on here would dislike the game if they couldn't read a guide.
 

Spaceman292

Member
I'm comparing their last five RPGs with their latest RPG. The attribute requirements for weapons are noticeably higher than they have been in previous titles. Do you want to engage with that argument or not?
The game is longer and you get more levels. My point still stands. You chose a path and put your points in that.
 

Bragr

Member
You have swords that scale with strength, you have swords that scale with dex, those are the ones I normally use and I never have a problem with weapon variety, that's my build I can use long swords, great swords, short swords, axes, great axes and so on. I have seen swords that are not for my build, but that's ok, there are different classes in the game, if I want bad enough to use the swords in those classes, I can re spec.

Just because you are expecting the swords to be interchangeable across every class doesn't mean that the design decision is wrong.
If it leads the player on goose chases it is.

The game clearly wants you to try out different weapons, it gives you tons of them and the options to respec.
 

Tomeru

Member
Of course not, but when you have an entire game filled with obscure paths and items, it's bound to have some issues at some point. Do you really think FromSoftware is 100% perfect in its design? There are paths and items in Elden Ring, and most FromSoftware games, that go too far and become too obscure, or overestimate how many players will discover them.

For example, there is a part in the game where you can't fast-travel unless you rest at a site of grace. The game doesn't tell you that, and that is stupid and can lead a lot of players to a lot of frustration.

I think FromSoftware is likely industry-leading in their player direction, they are genius at it, but some of their systems don't work as well as others. I mean, 80% of the people on here would dislike the game if they couldn't read a guide.
So people are designed badly?

Also, nothing bad about reading a guide other people put great effort in 👍
 
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Bragr

Member
The premise of these games, simply put is; "here is the problem, and here are some basic tools to get you started on solving that problem."
Where FROM's stuff departs from most games is that they also supply a whole slew of advanced tools and techniques but doesn't immediately highlight them. The concept being as you get comfortable with these basics, you'll likely run across these other things and feel not only empowered, but rewarded by their discovery.

If you want to expedite this process, you can look for insight in community-type resources. Because when millions of people are working together (albeit independently) things are way more rapid than by yourself.
The problem here is that a lot of players dislike hand-holding and using internet resources, and without that hand-holding, a lot of the obscure parts of the game become punishing or annoying, or outright dumb. I remember being stuck in Bloodborne for hours and eventually having to check a guide. That hurt the game massively. There are times when the FromSoftware approach doesn't hold up during the entire game, and their design is too hard to discover, which can lead players into hours of boring searching.

Now, most of the time I think they absolutely nail it, but it should be possible to point out a few problems once in a while without the entire FromSoftware fanbase going completely insane.

FromSoftware fans are worse than the worst console warriors and completely unreasonable and unable to admit any sort of issue, no matter how slight.
 

Bragr

Member
So people are designed badly?

Also, nothing bad about reading a guide other people put great effort in 👍
People are designed badly? huh?

I don't wanna use guides. I don't like hand-holding, especially in exploration-heavy games.

Again, the double-standard here is infuriating.

If Red Dead Redemption 2 had parts of the game that were annoying without a guide or hard to get by without reading how, people would FLIP out. There would be no end to it.
 

Saber

Member
Most of you probably don't like the game at all unless you get told what to do from guides and wikis.

Still didn't watched a single guide or a single info. Doing straight up blind and so far I got everything I want.
I think you're just mad you can't do what you want and instead of investing or just move on with the game you're just trying to prove how everyone is wrong and you're right. Maybe you guys are way too much dependable of handholding.


I'm comparing their last five RPGs with their latest RPG. The attribute requirements for weapons are noticeably higher than they have been in previous titles. Do you want to engage with that argument or not?

My brother Fake Fake liked a sword but with very high attributes requirements. You know what he did? Invested in the attribute, and now he is using that said sword. Problem solved.
Also, you can "reset" your character if you don't like or need a specific attribute later.
 
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Azurro

Gold Member
If it leads the player on goose chases it is.

The game clearly wants you to try out different weapons, it gives you tons of them and the options to respec.

What goose chase? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I can try like 6 different weapon types just off the top of my head, probably more if I actually check. It sounds more like you are throwing a tantrum because you can't use every single weapon at all times like DMC.
 

Clear

Gold Member
The problem here is that a lot of players dislike hand-holding and using internet resources, and without that hand-holding, a lot of the obscure parts of the game become punishing or annoying, or outright dumb. I remember being stuck in Bloodborne for hours and eventually having to check a guide. That hurt the game massively. There are times when the FromSoftware approach doesn't hold up during the entire game, and their design is too hard to discover, which can lead players into hours of boring searching.

Now, most of the time I think they absolutely nail it, but it should be possible to point out a few problems once in a while without the entire FromSoftware fanbase going completely insane.

FromSoftware fans are worse than the worst console warriors and completely unreasonable and unable to admit any sort of issue, no matter how slight.

Well look, the ideal I guess is always an organic process of discovery. However I doubt no matter how well this is handled, that everyone will keep up. And its also arguable that pitching this down so low that almost everyone will be able to do so will result in a strong feeling of "hand holding" among quicker-witted/more experienced players.

I get that its a balance, but personally I can't fault FROM for skewing towards the more capable or persevering segment of the market as their primary audience.

So I guess what I'm saying is that while I can't say that all criticisms are invalid - I myself have had to look a bunch of stuff up in ER- I think that characterising them as "faults" or "problems" is a little unfair because its all a fundamental design choice.

Bottom line for me is that no game, no art or entertainment is truly for everyone. Some things are more accessible and mainstream than others, but I appreciate the diversity. Even knowing that periodically I'll come across a thing that everyone is raving about but leaves me cold or disappointed.
 

22•22

Doesnt need recognition
I, for one, don't have a clue what's happening in the game story wise except for the basic GO FIND RING premise. And I'm very much okay with that. There's a certain charm having to look up the lore of this mysterious world. I'll take From's approach any days over cutscene after cutscene pushed down my troat, that's for sure. =)
 

BbMajor7th

Member
The game is longer and you get more levels. My point still stands. You chose a path and put your points in that.
I think your point was 'duh, doesn't anyone know how RPGs work'. Which doesn't stand, because I wasn't comparing it to other RPGs but prior games from the same studio and noting the differences. A sensible mitigation for this difference is the ability you have to re-spec, which somebody else mentioned above and is probably a more decisive difference in Elden Ring than it's overall length. That said, it doesn't address the issue with the limited weapon upgrade materials. I will add, that this issue doesn't actually affect me: I tend to very monogamous with my weapon choices in Souls - I pick one and keep it the whole run - but for those who like to experiment a bit more, I can see how this might be frustrating.
 

Spaceman292

Member
I think your point was 'duh, doesn't anyone know how RPGs work'. Which doesn't stand, because I wasn't comparing it to other RPGs but prior games from the same studio and noting the differences. A sensible mitigation for this difference is the ability you have to re-spec, which somebody else mentioned above and is probably a more decisive difference in Elden Ring than it's overall length. That said, it doesn't address the issue with the limited weapon upgrade materials. I will add, that this issue doesn't actually affect me: I tend to very monogamous with my weapon choices in Souls - I pick one and keep it the whole run - but for those who like to experiment a bit more, I can see how this might be frustrating.
There isn't a limit to upgrade materials. You pick up loads and you can unlock the ability to buy them infinitely. I'm near the end of the game and I have three fully upgraded weapons with plenty of materials to spare.
 
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Tomeru

Member
People are designed badly? huh?

I don't wanna use guides. I don't like hand-holding, especially in exploration-heavy games.

Again, the double-standard here is infuriating.

If Red Dead Redemption 2 had parts of the game that were annoying without a guide or hard to get by without reading how, people would FLIP out. There would be no end to it.
So you wanna explore alone, but the game is too obscure, but you dont wanna use a guide because....

Ego?
 

WolfusFh

Member
I disagree, its a pretty solid counter-argument to a bunch of general complaints where the fault lies with the user and not the program.

For example:



Experimentation in no way implies that the process is "safe" or guaranteed to produce positive results. An experiment is an adventure, and failure is an option. The whole idea is that you learn, and in the end gain from that understanding.

Its not contradictory. You seem to be conflating opportunity with outcome.
So, in short, the game has an excessive amount of unintuitive and repetitive trial and error. Any other game with this trait is criticized, and it's always treated as a flaw of the game. Oh, but not from software games. Their games, the issue is always with the player, obviously.

The level of blind fanboyism these games have is insufferable. Ironically, most souls fanboys are the ones that need to "git gud". In regards to criticism, that is. Maybe try devoting some of that time that you spend learning about the "ultra mega best deep lore ever" to learning about logical criticism.
 

Tomeru

Member
So, in short, the game has an excessive amount of unintuitive and repetitive trial and error. Any other game with this trait is criticized, and it's always treated as a flaw of the game. Oh, but not from software games. Their games, the issue is always with the player, obviously.

The level of blind fanboyism these games have is insufferable. Ironically, most souls fanboys are the ones that need to "git gud". In regards to criticism, that is. Maybe try devoting some of that time that you spend learning about the "ultra mega best deep lore ever" to learning about logical criticism.
Such as?
 

WolfusFh

Member
So you wanna explore alone, but the game is too obscure, but you dont wanna use a guide because....

Ego?
If a game needs a guide for proper exploration, it's bad design. That's his point. You can't say that you don't like handholding if you're using a guide, that's nonsensical.

If the process of learning about the game without any assistance is tedious, repetitive and unproductive, then the "obscurity" was most likely poorly implemented.

It's amazing that you can't grasp such simple concept despite being clearly explained to you.
 

Tomeru

Member
If a game needs a guide for proper exploration, it's bad design. That's his point. You can't say that you don't like handholding if you're using a guide, that's nonsensical.

If the process of learning about the game without any assistance is tedious, repetitive and unproductive, then the "obscurity" was most likely poorly implemented.

It's amazing that you can't grasp such simple concept despite being clearly explained to you.
The game doesnt need a guide though. The only guides you find online are what people that play the game find. You can find out everything aboutvthe game given time.

However...

Its amazing-ly obvious that you are used to hand holding so much, that it demolished your ability to play a video game without anyone explaining anything.
 

WolfusFh

Member
Are you serious? Just of the top of my head, I can say: Megaman X5 and X6. The former being constantly criticized by the unintuitive parts mechanics that obligatorily results in trial and error. The latter being criticized by fake difficulty.
Many 3D Sonic games.
Ghostrunner, limbo and Mirrors' Edge also received criticism related to trail and error.

And overall, it's treated as bad design and fake difficulty in most situations. There's even a trope for it.

You don't need to play dumb and pretend that games don't get criticism for this.
 

WolfusFh

Member
The game doesnt need a guide though. The only guides you find online are what people that play the game find. You can find out everything aboutvthe game given time.
If the game doesn't need a guide, then that shouldn't be a suggestion. That's the whole point. If there are in-game strategies for solving the problem, then that would be the suggestions. That's what OP criticized. Try to pay attention to the discussion, buddy. I know you're slow on this "argumentation" thing, but try to keep up.
However...

Its amazing-ly obvious that you are used to hand holding so much, that it demolished your ability to play a video game without anyone explaining anything.
Oh, yes, I'm such a bad gamer, oh.
It's amazingly obvious that you are unable to handle criticism, and you lack any logical ability to have a proper discussion.
If you had any resemblance of logic, you would've noticed that I'm supporting OP's points, and trying to make them even more clear, since you are so painfully unable to comprehend it. You don't need hand holding in games, but you sure need them a lot in any form of debate.

Besides, as to your silly "point". I've played much harder and better games before, buddy. Hollow knight is one of my favorite platformers. Turns out the difficulty is actually fun.
You won't get anywhere with your shitty "lol git gud" garbage argument here.
 
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Tomeru

Member
If the game doesn't need a guide, then that shouldn't be a suggestion. That's the whole point. If there are in-game strategies for solving the problem, then that would be the suggestions. That's what OP criticized. Try to pay attention to the discussion, buddy. I know you're slow on this "argumentation" thing, but try to keep up.

Oh, yes, I'm such a bad gamer, oh.
It's amazingly obvious that you are unable to handle criticism, and you lack any logical ability to have a proper discussion.
If you had any resemblance of logic, you would've noticed that I'm supporting OP's points, and trying to make them even more clear, since you are so painfully unable to comprehend it. You don't need hand holding in games, but you sure need them a lot in any form of debate.

Besides, as to your silly "point". I've played much harder and better games before, buddy. Hollow knight is one of my favorite platformers. Turns out the difficulty is actually fun.
You won't get anywhere with your shitty "lol git gud" garbage argument here.
Tell me its your ego speaking without telling me its your ego speaking.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
For example, there is a part in the game where you can't fast-travel unless you rest at a site of grace. The game doesn't tell you that, and that is stupid and can lead a lot of players to a lot of frustration.

Right, except that it does.



Your problem was that you didn't actually TRY to do something, you just assumed you knew, and then got frustrated.
 

WolfusFh

Member
Tell me its your ego speaking without telling me its your ego speaking.
You're the one that brought that subject up, though. You souls fanboys can only repeated the same stupid "git gut" argument, and then you complain about people's ego? Yeah, nothing hypocritical here.

Try coming up with anything that remotely resembles a logical argument before you reply.
 

Tomeru

Member
You're the one that brought that subject up, though. You souls fanboys can only repeated the same stupid "git gut" argument, and then you complain about people's ego? Yeah, nothing hypocritical here.

Try coming up with anything that remotely resembles a logical argument before you reply.
Ego and logic don't mix, sorry 💁
 

WolfusFh

Member
Ego and logic don't mix, sorry 💁
Oh, you actually managed to say something correct. Congratulations, that must be a first time for you.

Since you now acknowledge this, I'm sure you'll be able to come up with arguments that do not try to attack a person's skill, and instead you'll focus on what's being said. So I'll wait for that.
 

Keihart

Gold Member
I think this is the perfect summa of how to downplay valid criticism of Souls games.

It’s a 100-hour adventure with so many options, they say. It’s an RPG and experimentation is required, they say. But apparently there’s a “wrong” way to play it, they also say.

The game can’t have a problem and couldn’t be better in any way, if you have problems it’s you who don’t understand something.

The game is deliberately obscure and if any other popular game was even half as obtuse as any From game the backlash would be egregious, but hey, it’s a team effort project, the community is there to help you.

”Educate yourselves”. For a video game.
Way to cope
You can also learn to read the in game text and pay attention.
 

Keihart

Gold Member
The problem here is that a lot of players dislike hand-holding and using internet resources, and without that hand-holding, a lot of the obscure parts of the game become punishing or annoying, or outright dumb. I remember being stuck in Bloodborne for hours and eventually having to check a guide. That hurt the game massively. There are times when the FromSoftware approach doesn't hold up during the entire game, and their design is too hard to discover, which can lead players into hours of boring searching.

Now, most of the time I think they absolutely nail it, but it should be possible to point out a few problems once in a while without the entire FromSoftware fanbase going completely insane.

FromSoftware fans are worse than the worst console warriors and completely unreasonable and unable to admit any sort of issue, no matter how slight.
Dude, you can play this shit blind, lvl 10 , no horse, no maiden, and still beat it.
This "but you have to use a wiki" shit is such a strawman.
 

Tomeru

Member
Oh, you actually managed to say something correct. Congratulations, that must be a first time for you.

Since you now acknowledge this, I'm sure you'll be able to come up with arguments that do not try to attack a person's skill, and instead you'll focus on what's being said. So I'll wait for that.
Im sorry that you feel attacked, it wasn't my intention.

Your arguement has no merit, and I explained it already. I'll quote myself, if you don't mind: "The game doesn't need a guide though. You can find anything about the game given time".

And on the subject of suggestions. I suggest you don't project your level 512 ego on every elden ring player. Some enjoy reading what others discovered about the game, and then seeing it themselves. Some don't have time to play 6 hours a day, or are mentally exhausted after a day of work, or have children, or issues in life... So suggesting the use of community resources is a good suggestion. People are free to enjoy a game however they like.

With that said - you dont need to use a guide to discover everything about the game. You can play and play and it'll come organically.

This is the nicest way I can think of, of telling you to git gud.
 

WolfusFh

Member
Im sorry that you feel attacked, it wasn't my intention.
Oh, sure.
Your arguement has no merit, and I explained it already. I'll quote myself, if you don't mind: "The game doesn't need a guide though. You can find anything about the game given time".
You really need a lot of hand holding in regards to argumentation, huh? So let's try to summarize what was being discussed.
The OP is claiming that the weapons system is poorly designed, since, in order to understand the system WITHOUT A GUIDE, an excessive amount of unintuitive trial and error is needed.

In regards to that point, a proper response would be showing how it is possible to circumvent the issue with the knowledge the game gives you. You, instead, either recommended a guide or repeated the "git gud argument".
And on the subject of suggestions. I suggest you don't project your level 512 ego on every elden ring player.
Then maybe Elden ring fanboys should stop projecting their insecurities on everyone that makes any slightly negative criticism towards the game. Extremely hypocritical complaining about an issue you yourselves created.
Some enjoy reading what others discovered about the game, and then seeing it themselves. Some don't have time to play 6 hours a day, or are mentally exhausted after a day of work, or have children, or issues in life... So suggesting the use of community resources is a good suggestion. People are free to enjoy a game however they like.
Never even debated that. I don't have anything against guides or against people using guides. What I said was that IF the game needs a guide to determine something, then that something (not the entire game, just that thing) was poorly designed.
With that said - you dont need to use a guide to discover everything about the game. You can play and play and it'll come organically.
Then you should have no problem replying to OP's points with the "organic knowledge" you acquired, thus properly refuting his point. But you haven't.
 
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