• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

I believe it's time to disband 343 Industries.

Moses85

Member
i hate them episode 2 GIF by Star Wars
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Makes as much sense as claiming that Spiderman remastered on PC was 4 years late.

I think your post pretty much sums up what I’ve been saying. People will make up the most outlandish narrative to shit on this dev. Imagine you trying to pass off the release of the individual games as an ‘insult’.

The basic facts are that the classic Halo games are on PC, in 4K HDR 120+ fps and wide FoV. And yet it isn’t breaking playtime records at the moment.

You can't really be this absent minded to dismiss the fact that MCC ignored PC for 5 years, and the game itself wasn't released on PC, but one game at a time, and pretend that had no impact on active users. It was an insult because they promised Halo MCC the game for PC, and they didn't deliver the game they promised. Comparing it to Spiderman doesn't make any sense, that's complete BS.

This is one of the strangest defenses for MCC I've seen, PC gamers were begging for the game for years and 343 shunned them until the calls for a port slowed down, they finally say they are going to release the game 5 years later, and when the launch date approaches they say "lol no we are going to release one game at a time" so the game really didn't release on PC for 7 years, but you don't think any of that, along with PC gamers witnessing the 3 years it took for 343 to even fix the damn game on the Xbox One, had any impact on player numbers? Are you serious?
 
Destiny was considered a failure the first 12 months after release as well until Bungie made huge updates and changes to the overall experience which included replacing Peter Dinklage as VO for "The Ghost" and making the loot progression less farm-centric. Don't you remember all the complaints about the story being a convoluted mess that was only explained if you read Grimoire cards on Bungie.net or the loot cave fiasco? You Halo Infinite haters sure do have rose-tinted glasses for Destiny all of a sudden.

No it wasn't. You're conflating complaints about story and grinding with your own point. Destiny was more feature and content rich than Infinite at launch and post 12 months launch too. You could play strikes, raids, PvP, campaign, patrols and shared world events without even mentioning classes and loot etc. There is far more diversity to the Destiny art, the mechanics, the world sandbox, enemies/factions and more.

I agree the story was a joke in Destiny 1 in-game. That does not equate it to Infinite around launch sustain. Destiny was considered a resounding success and players flocked to buy and play it. You have beer goggles on if you think Destiny didn't launch to a massive success and sustain of players over the same launch life as Infinite. Destiny also had two solid expansions in the first year; The Dark Below and House of Wolves.

Go ahead and find the metrics on MAU or total players from launch vs over the first year post launch. How about we go into being multi-platform support with Destiny at launch? Destiny/Bungie had a larger task than Infinite during development. Destiny also sold US$325million in its first 5 days on sale.

Put it this way, Destiny gave us PvE and things like Vault of Glass raid. What do you actually remember about Infinite? It's a forgettable game with either campaign or multiplayer. Sure that could change in the coming years but that's sure as shit not what I would have launched/developed over 6-7 years of Infinite's lifecycle thus far.
 
It’s a leadership issue. The game looks good and plays even better. All of the issues just stink of poor leadership and lack of focus. The game should haven delayed another year, that’s the biggest problem. A race to release to appease the fans without thinking about how long much of the content was going to take. MS did the same thing with Sea of Thieves. Launched in a fundamentally sound yet barebones package, but they kept up support and now it’s a robust game. I suspect Halo Inf will be the same way.
 
Destiny was considered a failure the first 12 months after release as well until Bungie made huge updates and changes to the overall experience which included replacing Peter Dinklage as VO for "The Ghost" and making the loot progression less farm-centric. Don't you remember all the complaints about the story being a convoluted mess that was only explained if you read Grimoire cards on Bungie.net or the loot cave fiasco? You Halo Infinite haters sure do have rose-tinted glasses for Destiny all of a sudden.
Yes destiny was hot garbage after it launched. People trying to revise history.
 
No it wasn't. You're conflating complaints about story and grinding with your own point. Destiny was more feature and content rich than Infinite at launch and post 12 months launch too. You could play strikes, raids, PvP, campaign, patrols and shared world events without even mentioning classes and loot etc. There is far more diversity to the Destiny art, the mechanics, the world sandbox, enemies/factions and more.

I agree the story was a joke in Destiny 1 in-game. That does not equate it to Infinite around launch sustain. Destiny was considered a resounding success and players flocked to buy and play it. You have beer goggles on if you think Destiny didn't launch to a massive success and sustain of players over the same launch life as Infinite. Destiny also had two solid expansions in the first year; The Dark Below and House of Wolves.

Go ahead and find the metrics on MAU or total players from launch vs over the first year post launch. How about we go into being multi-platform support with Destiny at launch? Destiny/Bungie had a larger task than Infinite during development. Destiny also sold US$325million in its first 5 days on sale.

Put it this way, Destiny gave us PvE and things like Vault of Glass raid. What do you actually remember about Infinite? It's a forgettable game with either campaign or multiplayer. Sure that could change in the coming years but that's sure as shit not what I would have launched/developed over 6-7 years of Infinite's lifecycle thus far.
This! For all the shit Destiny got in year 1 it was still infinitely more fleshed out and memorable than this barebones dead open world, single biome, repetitive and dull campaign of infinite. Biggest letdown for me in gaming in a long time.

The trees and leaves don't even sway gently in the breeze in Infinite. Guess they ran outta time on that. Could've fixed that by now but that is 343 for ya. Look how long it's taking then to implement co-op. This is why this 10 year plan is a joke. The game will fail before they're able to turn it around and put out an expansion for campaign. Where are new maps for multiplayer?
 

ZehDon

Member
... This is why this 10 year plan is a joke. The game will fail before they're able to turn it around and put out an expansion for campaign. Where are new maps for multiplayer?
That ship's sailed. Microsoft barely acknowledge this thing exists, and it's been absent from their shows and press releases pretty much since launch. For a live service, that's an implicit admission of failure - they're not even trying to promote it any more. On PC, it's basically dead, and on Xbox, it's slowly dying, already lagging behind old single player games. 343i prioritised Forge over their own new content for a reason: to outsource new maps and modes to the community. I'd bet Infinite's live support team is little more than a skeleton screw given how badly it's failed, and Forge is their best shot for keeping the game alive until Certain Affinity's Battle Royale.
On that note, if you're expecting a proper full campaign expansion, offering up an ODST-level experience, I think you'll be disappointed. Given that Infinite died, I doubt Microsoft will be pouring more money into the blackhole that's swallowed a rumoured half billion. I'd wager 343i are working on a new mainline Halo title led by Joseph Staten, with Certain Affinity to take over Infinite's "live service" once the BR is done, with the aim to release that new title at the tail end of this generation. Until then, Infinite will limp on to generate what little money it can with its pathetic seasonal updates.
 
Last edited:

Havoc2049

Member
It is? Game looks great to me. I've never gotten the complaints over the MCC's updated visuals.
All the naval personnel look like overweight middle aged men, who instead of fighting the Covenant, have been fighting the battle of the bulge.


Here we have a comparison shot from the same scene. Again, the navy guy in the Anniversary edition is overweight and looks like he's pushing 60 years old. Keyes has this weird simpleton look, instead of a hard grizzled Commander, trying to figure a way out of a bad situation, like in the original.





Sgt. Johnson looks like an old man pushing 60+ years of age, instead of a bad arse Sergeant in the Marine Corps. His skin also has a weird ashen look.


I also just prefer the simple stylized and clean look of the original over the buzy and cluttered look of the Anniversary CE. I thought 343 did a much better job with Halo 2 Anniversary.
 

Ozriel

Member
Be sincere, do you believe this team can make a good shooter?


That’s like 50 women out of 450 employees.
Some of you guys are strange.

This take man. Destiny shits on Infinite. Infinite isn't the best Halo yet, far from it. Forge does look good but setting your multiplayer game back a generation in terms of graphics and having your community build maps on a gimped non-dev software tool isn't going to regain the crown of FPS nor the sustained masses to play long term. Mods support should have been here already. I hope mods release with Forge.

Bungie moved more into Shadowrun territory with Destiny and introduced PvE strikes, shared spaces and loot that affects gameplay while innovating with Gambit, RAIDS, dungeons and UI presentation. What did Infinite innovate or evolve? It's a step backwards and a repeat of Halo 5 chaotic BTB or esports split again. I didn't even go into the wonderful art and exploration of Destiny 1 & 2 vs Infinite's bland and repetitive one biome.

How exactly do you think Infinite is the best Halo yet? Fuck me.


And yet even that comes nowhere close to the populations seen in the glory days of Halo. Even with a bump from new content out now + lightfall hype, Destiny 2 CCUs are a third of Apex Legends on Steam. The market has moved, which is why it makes no sense to continue to carpet 343i for Halo not being the most dominant shooter.

Let’s not go into how most of 343’s efforts to change Halo have been met with extreme resistance from the hardcore fanbase.
 

Ozriel

Member
That ship's sailed. Microsoft barely acknowledge this thing exists, and it's been absent from their shows and press releases pretty much since launch. For a live service, that's an implicit admission of failure - they're not even trying to promote it any more. On PC, it's basically dead, and on Xbox, it's slowly dying, already lagging behind old single player games. 343i prioritised Forge over their own new content for a reason: to outsource new maps and modes to the community. I'd bet Infinite's live support team is little more than a skeleton screw given how badly it's failed, and Forge is their best shot for keeping the game alive until Certain Affinity's Battle Royale.
On that note, if you're expecting a proper full campaign expansion, offering up an ODST-level experience, I think you'll be disappointed. Given that Infinite died, I doubt Microsoft will be pouring more money into the blackhole that's swallowed a rumoured half billion. I'd wager 343i are working on a new mainline Halo title led by Joseph Staten, with Certain Affinity to take over Infinite's "live service" once the BR is done, with the aim to release that new title at the tail end of this generation. Until then, Infinite will limp on to generate what little money it can with its pathetic seasonal updates.


None of this has any basis in reality at all.
They’re not going to ditch Halo Infinite and work on a new Halo game at this point, the game isn’t ‘dead’ on PC and certainly isn’t ‘dying’ on Xbox. They’re pushing on Forge and Campaign co-op because these are staple Halo features they delayed from release to polish. At the same time, they’ll be working on bug fixing, additional maps and content.
Forge isn’t intended to completely outsource map making.


They’ve had one major show since Halo Infinite released. There’s been no point making a big deal out of it on stage since they’re still behind on content and working to streamline their workflows. And there’s no sense to keep pushing that ludicrous ‘half a billion’ budget which came from a weird rumor. How does that make sense to you? Not even Star Citizen that’s been in development for ages has hit that limit.
 
And yet even that comes nowhere close to the populations seen in the glory days of Halo. Even with a bump from new content out now + lightfall hype, Destiny 2 CCUs are a third of Apex Legends on Steam. The market has moved, which is why it makes no sense to continue to carpet 343i for Halo not being the most dominant shooter.

Let’s not go into how most of 343’s efforts to change Halo have been met with extreme resistance from the hardcore fanbase.

Shit like this cracks me up. Fuck the vocal hardcore fanbases dominating years of development for a franchise. Halo glory days was fun, competitive fun even, then they got into this MLG/HCS esports crap and took things far too seriously. Same goes for the last two seasons of Apex. Cater to the ultra skilled and/or hardcore fanbase with nothing by stacked teamwork and a coach to the point of alienating the so called "casuals". It was seen with Halo 5. It's been done again with Halo Infinite. 343 didn't learn, they didn't do enough for the core of Halo fans. Fun competitive types who don't play the game like it's a job. Whatever happened to 4v4 light vehicles non esports driven content. It's nowhere under 343. It's chaotic BTB or esports. You can see this proof in how they handle MCC even, social playlist entered (no competitive) and the maps and modes are literally just midship, lockout foundry etc on repeat. 343 are clueless about the glory days core of Halo. Utterly miss the point because they're too busy esporting up everything.

Also your statement about extreme resistance is selective and untrue; even you are too esports focused in your comments. Halo 5 warzone was massively well received and played for a long time. Halo 5 firefight was super well received and played by many for a long time.

Now in terms of change if 343 had of during Halo 5 or Infinite released a solid and fully fleshed out PvE mode you'd see Halo numbers through the roof and not even have to compete directly with other PvP or BR games at all. 50% of Halo players only play campaign, a metric that has stood the test of time with Halo titles. If you take that into account then I say 343 are afraid of change. They didn't embrace their Azure cloud backend beyond Warzone or Firefight and leverage their talent and backend systems/support with MS/Azure to deliver a 10 year game. They could be rolling out 2-4 massive campaign and PvE content drops per year. They avoid all that matchmaking bullshit, cheaters bullshit, networking and region matching bullshit, leaderboard cheats etc and deliver what over half of Halo fans have been keen on for a decade or more.

It's the esports/hardcore that are razor focused and resistant to change combined with in-fighting about mechanics. The wider Halo fans need more change, more maps, modes, PvE and generally a studio with some real vision. Again I say the management needs to go at 343. Halo 4, MCC, Halo 5 and Infinite have all stepped over cornerstone developments in gaming e.g. PvE, networking, content sustain, quality assurance etc.

Bungie understood this, to the point of not just building what MLG wanted with Halo 3 or Reach; nor making that the cornerstone of half their game as 343 does. Destiny 1 and 2 are far better evolutions of Halo 1-3. Apex Legends is a developers love letter to finally ditch all the annoying traits learnt from decades of FPS experiences and communities. Rockets, gone. Vehicles, light. Maps, roaming and choice of play style e.g. CQC vs terrain/positional. Recycle players quickly for rapid matchmaking with BR over arena. Aiming and movement rivals Bungie's level of quality on console. Introduce chance through loot/RNG so it's not always the stacked or super skilled with the upper hand.

You get the idea.
 
Last edited:

clarky

Member
Yes destiny was hot garbage after it launched. People trying to revise history.
2nd this and ive been playing since the Alpha
The campaign was fucking garbage, im im not talking about the story. Hours and hours of grinding for planetary mats only for Bungie to do a full gear reset because they had little content to add. woeful PVP. Could go on.
VOG saved the game like i said earlier.

If i had to pick Destiny year one or infinite year one i know which id pick.
 

ZehDon

Member
None of this has any basis in reality at all... the game isn’t ‘dead’ on PC and certainly isn’t ‘dying’ on Xbox...
Halo Infinite, a free online shooter from a massive brand, has approximately 2,200 players right now on Steam, the largest PC platform in the world, less than one year after launch. Soundpad, a $5.00 application that plays sound effects through voice chats, has 9,000 players on Steam right now, six years after it launched. Halo Infinite on PC is done.
On Xbox, it's fairing better, currently sitting at number 16 on the Xbox most played in the US, behind a two year old paid Call of Duty game. Considering this is it's largest market and it's largest platform and it's free, that's... not great. So, clearly, my post lives entirely in reality while yours is... kind of just a pointless rant?

The fact is that, in nearly a year, 343i has done virtually nothing. Not a single major issue that drove away 97% of their player base has been addressed. In fact, they've actually confirmed that game-breaking issues like desync aren't even being worked on. But, sure - 343i are just getting their work flows together. Still. A year after launch. Once they have just one more team meeting, all get on the same page, they'll start churning out three month seasons packed with, like, so much content. It won't be in 2022, we know that, but definitely 2023, or at least 2024, with 2025 at the latest. That's when Halo Infinite will really take off :pie_eyeroll:
 
Last edited:
They will have released 2 MP maps in one year what makes you think they could do this?
Current 343 and Infinite engine state they cannot, clearly that is the case.

What I'm angling at is the lack of vision and/or planning from 343 management. 6-7 years for Infinite and none of these things were planned for? Had they gone clearly after a PvE mode and invested resources and separated teams for such a pipeline and sustained delivery they wouldn't be in the mess 343 are in. Not with the engine, not with the community/communication and certainly not in terms of the player(s) experience at launch and throughout the first year of updates.

They did not learn from Halo 5 or MCC. Again they bite off more than they can chew.
 
Halo Infinite, a free online shooter from a massive brand, has approximately 2,200 players right now on Steam, the largest PC platform in the world, less than one year after launch. Soundpad, a $5.00 application that plays sound effects through voice chats, has 9,000 players on Steam right now, six years after it launched. Halo Infinite on PC is done.
On Xbox, it's fairing better, currently sitting at number 16 on the Xbox most played in the US, behind a two year old paid Call of Duty game. Considering this is it's largest market and it's largest platform and it's free, that's... not great. So, clearly, my post lives entirely in reality while yours is... kind of just a pointless rant?

The fact is that, in nearly a year, 343i has done virtually nothing. Not a single major issue that drove away 97% of their player base has been addressed. In fact, they've actually confirmed that game-breaking issues like desync aren't even being worked on. But, sure - 343i are just getting their work flows together. Still. A year after launch. Once they have just one more team meeting, all get on the same page, they'll start churning out three month seasons packed with, like, so much content. It won't be in 2022, we know that, but definitely 2023, or at least 2024, with 2025 at the latest. That's when Halo Infinite will really take off :pie_eyeroll:

The worst part of all these sorts of facts and communications is they know what it takes to deliver Halo, they've had more than a decade and 3 major title releases now. It surprises me to no end that 343 still have to work on streamlining, pipelines, dev cycles, PR comms etc. It's a fool me 3 times joke at this point.

There isn't some magical sauce to be discovered here. They have the recipe to Halo, they just suck as infusions, modernising a recipe, making things their own, giving theatrical experiences to enhance the recipe etc etc etc. Such a disappointment in terms of the studio, the engine and ultimately the game Halo Infinite.

Don't even start me on the show and what that should mean for the 343 management.
 

clarky

Member
Current 343 and Infinite engine state they cannot, clearly that is the case.

What I'm angling at is the lack of vision and/or planning from 343 management. 6-7 years for Infinite and none of these things were planned for? Had they gone clearly after a PvE mode and invested resources and separated teams for such a pipeline and sustained delivery they wouldn't be in the mess 343 are in. Not with the engine, not with the community/communication and certainly not in terms of the player(s) experience at launch and throughout the first year of updates.

They did not learn from Halo 5 or MCC. Again they bite off more than they can chew.
They've got rid of most of the upper management since the game shipped from what i can tell
 
Last edited:

Ozriel

Member
Shit like this cracks me up. Fuck the vocal hardcore fanbases dominating years of development for a franchise. Halo glory days was fun, competitive fun even, then they got into this MLG/HCS esports crap and took things far too seriously. Same goes for the last two seasons of Apex. Cater to the ultra skilled and/or hardcore fanbase with nothing by stacked teamwork and a coach to the point of alienating the so called "casuals". It was seen with Halo 5. It's been done again with Halo Infinite. 343 didn't learn, they didn't do enough for the core of Halo fans. Fun competitive types who don't play the game like it's a job. Whatever happened to 4v4 light vehicles non esports driven content. It's nowhere under 343. It's chaotic BTB or esports. You can see this proof in how they handle MCC even, social playlist entered (no competitive) and the maps and modes are literally just midship, lockout foundry etc on repeat. 343 are clueless about the glory days core of Halo. Utterly miss the point because they're too busy esporting up everything.

Also your statement about extreme resistance is selective and untrue; even you are too esports focused in your comments. Halo 5 warzone was massively well received and played for a long time. Halo 5 firefight was super well received and played by many for a long time.

Now in terms of change if 343 had of during Halo 5 or Infinite released a solid and fully fleshed out PvE mode you'd see Halo numbers through the roof and not even have to compete directly with other PvP or BR games at all. 50% of Halo players only play campaign, a metric that has stood the test of time with Halo titles. If you take that into account then I say 343 are afraid of change. They didn't embrace their Azure cloud backend beyond Warzone or Firefight and leverage their talent and backend systems/support with MS/Azure to deliver a 10 year game. They could be rolling out 2-4 massive campaign and PvE content drops per year. They avoid all that matchmaking bullshit, cheaters bullshit, networking and region matching bullshit, leaderboard cheats etc and deliver what over half of Halo fans have been keen on for a decade or more.

It's the esports/hardcore that are razor focused and resistant to change combined with in-fighting about mechanics. The wider Halo fans need more change, more maps, modes, PvE and generally a studio with some real vision. Again I say the management needs to go at 343. Halo 4, MCC, Halo 5 and Infinite have all stepped over cornerstone developments in gaming e.g. PvE, networking, content sustain, quality assurance etc.

Bungie understood this, to the point of not just building what MLG wanted with Halo 3 or Reach; nor making that the cornerstone of half their game as 343 does. Destiny 1 and 2 are far better evolutions of Halo 1-3. Apex Legends is a developers love letter to finally ditch all the annoying traits learnt from decades of FPS experiences and communities. Rockets, gone. Vehicles, light. Maps, roaming and choice of play style e.g. CQC vs terrain/positional. Recycle players quickly for rapid matchmaking with BR over arena. Aiming and movement rivals Bungie's level of quality on console. Introduce chance through loot/RNG so it's not always the stacked or super skilled with the upper hand.

You get the idea.

Weird because there there are actually many areas in your post I agree with. For sure, this weird focus on esports is a millstone around Halo’s neck, and I’ll blame not just 343 management but Xbox management including Spencer. Those were dark times indeed.

That said, in response to your comments about them not changing things up, 343 did try to please both sides with Halo infinite by try tiny to return gameplay that’s closer to the classics and changing things up by switching to an open world with for Halo Infinite. And yet they’re still being savaged by some fans for not making it linear with scarab like encounters like Halo 3.
 
I actually think it’s time to gut a lot of the leads at this studio and some of the more senior people who run Xbox Studios.

For as long as I remember, their product development and pipeline has been poor and they struggle to make good games consistently at get them out the door.

They’ve got some really great teams now, and the extra publishers they’ve bought will supplement Xbox with GamePass games, but there is definitely a lot of rot now.
 

Ozriel

Member
Halo Infinite, a free online shooter from a massive brand, has approximately 2,200 players right now on Steam, the largest PC platform in the world, less than one year after launch. Soundpad, a $5.00 application that plays sound effects through voice chats, has 9,000 players on Steam right now, six years after it launched. Halo Infinite on PC is done.
On Xbox, it's fairing better, currently sitting at number 16 on the Xbox most played in the US, behind a two year old paid Call of Duty game. Considering this is it's largest market and it's largest platform and it's free, that's... not great. So, clearly, my post lives entirely in reality while yours is... kind of just a pointless rant?

The fact is that, in nearly a year, 343i has done virtually nothing. Not a single major issue that drove away 97% of their player base has been addressed. In fact, they've actually confirmed that game-breaking issues like desync aren't even being worked on. But, sure - 343i are just getting their work flows together. Still. A year after launch. Once they have just one more team meeting, all get on the same page, they'll start churning out three month seasons packed with, like, so much content. It won't be in 2022, we know that, but definitely 2023, or at least 2024, with 2025 at the latest. That's when Halo Infinite will really take off :pie_eyeroll:


4500 players right now on Steam. Looks like you cherry picked there.
But still, none of that paints a picture of a ‘dead’ game, and nothing in what you’ve said supports your ludicrous claim that support for the game is being wound down.
 

CuNi

Member
They've litteraly got rid of most of the upper management since Staten took over.

You don't really think they all just went on "to explore new and exciting career opportunities" do you? They all got dumped because of the fucked up development of the game is my guess. Now we are stuck while they attempt to right the ship. lets see what happens next.

To be fair, that's the first I hear of this.
All departures I heard of so far already had studios that took them in, which doesn't sound like "fired" but more like the usual "Project done, jump to the next company/project" move I know from IT.
 

ZehDon

Member
4500 players right now on Steam. Looks like you cherry picked there.
But still, none of that paints a picture of a ‘dead’ game, and nothing in what you’ve said supports your ludicrous claim that support for the game is being wound down.
Yes, I cherry picked… by posting the player counts as at the exact minute of my post? What?
I didn’t say Halo Infinite was dead. I said it was dead on PC and dying on Xbox. And it is.
I never support was being “wound down”. I said 343i have a skeleton crew on Infinite, and I expect they’ll hand off to Certain Affinity once CA’s BR is done. They’ll support Infinite for years to come - albeit poorly.

Are you always this stupid, or are you trying extra hard today?
 

Ozriel

Member
Yes, I cherry picked… by posting the player counts as at the exact minute of my post? What?

Yes. Time zones exist. The logical thing people do is post the past day’s average or peak CCU to get a better picture.
I didn’t say Halo Infinite was dead. I said it was dead on PC and dying on Xbox. And it is.

…and we were discussing PC player counts. Do you truly have this much challenge with comprehension?

I never support was being “wound down”. I said 343i have a skeleton crew on Infinite, and I expect they’ll hand off to Certain Affinity once CA’s BR is done. They’ll support Infinite for years to come - albeit poorly.
My point still stands that this is an illogical take that has no basis in reality. They certainly aren’t moving to a skeleton crew.
Let’s not even go to your misleading claim about existing issues not being worked on.
 

clarky

Member
To be fair, that's the first I hear of this.
All departures I heard of so far already had studios that took them in, which doesn't sound like "fired" but more like the usual "Project done, jump to the next company/project" move I know from IT.
Like I said most of the upper management have gone. Not hard to put 2 and 2 together. Ironically what most of the people in this turd of a thread are calling for has already happened.
 
Last edited:
Like I said most of the upper management have gone. Not hard to put 2 and 2 together. Ironically what most of the people in this turd of a thread are calling for has already happened.
Upper in design yes you are right but not the ones who decide the franchise direction, including Bonnie Ross and O'Connor. Which are the main problem and dont deserve their position.

Also by leaving good designers like Sparth and Paul Crocker also left which is not a good sign and I persinally Consider them a loss for 343. The problem was never the game design as Infinite improved considerably, but the direction of the franchise.

So yes they must be replaced not the Art Director if they want to fix it
 

clarky

Member
Upper in design yes you are right but not the ones who decide the franchise direction, including Bonnie Ross and O'Connor. Which are the main problem and dont deserve their position.

Also by leaving good designers like Sparth and Paul Crocker also left which is not a good sign and I persinally Consider them a loss for 343. The problem was never the game design as Infinite improved considerably, but the direction of the franchise.

So yes they must be replaced not the Art Director if they want to fix it
Bonnie Ross runs the whole of 343, and Frankie deals with the lore/story are far as I'm aware. Not saying they do a great job but personally i have no idea what their day to day entails so i couldn't comment.

Head of sandbox, design, MP & creative leads etc etc have all received a shake up in recent times the guys/gals responsible for the actual game, the biggest obviously Staten coming in who now as far as im aware is the top dog as far as the direction of where the game goes from here.

Most of the Team leading 4 & 5 and alot of early infinite dev are gone. Everyone can't say on one hand "o no everyone is leaving 343 are fucked and on the other hand be calling for the very same people who are responsible to go. Its already happened.
 
Last edited:
Weird because there there are actually many areas in your post I agree with. For sure, this weird focus on esports is a millstone around Halo’s neck, and I’ll blame not just 343 management but Xbox management including Spencer. Those were dark times indeed.

That said, in response to your comments about them not changing things up, 343 did try to please both sides with Halo infinite by try tiny to return gameplay that’s closer to the classics and changing things up by switching to an open world with for Halo Infinite. And yet they’re still being savaged by some fans for not making it linear with scarab like encounters like Halo 3.
I don't see people saying it should be linear, they're saying it should have some variety and biome diversity as well as more interesting encounter design. If you see someone talking about wanting scarabs it's referring to how something like that would've added some much needed variety and change of pace than the one combat encounter we got in Infinite. They remember Halo 3 and how varied it was. How it actually had setpieces which is what the scarab represents. A sandbox setpiece. Infinite is so unimaginative. Nothing but FOBS and bases. That's all the entire game had to offer.
 

Ozriel

Member
I don't see people saying it should be linear, they're saying it should have some variety and biome diversity as well as more interesting encounter design. If you see someone talking about wanting scarabs it's referring to how something like that would've added some much needed variety and change of pace than the one combat encounter we got in Infinite. They remember Halo 3 and how varied it was. How it actually had setpieces which is what the scarab represents. A sandbox setpiece. Infinite is so unimaginative. Nothing but FOBS and bases. That's all the entire game had to offer.

they’ve addressed this. They absolutely planned to have multiple biomes and much more world variety, but engine struggles and project mismanagement forced them to scrap much of the work and rescope to what we have today.

And that’s my point. Infinite campaign still came out very well regarded, but there are obvious gaps. Gaps they can hopefully fix via expansions. More importantly, it seems to be a project management issue vs a complete lack of vision and certainly no reason to call for disbanding the entire studio.

343 wanted to make an ambitious, open world Halo game, and had to pretty much restart work when they ran into challenges. This isn’t a unique problem in the industry - media molecule for example took 8 years to make Dreams and basically had to nearly start from scratch at some point. 343’s main challenge was they had to work to a fixed deadline which pretty much forced drastic scope cuts to meet.
 
Last edited:

Leyasu

Banned
After the ABK deal is finalised they should offer Rod Fergusson the studio head position and tell him that he can bring in his own team if he wants. Then perhaps give some serious consideration to switching over to a new engine. I.d tech or unreal engine etc. Fuck keeping slipspace because of its quirky physics, use something that they can push to it’s potential.
 
Last edited:

clarky

Member
After the ABK deal is finalised they should offer Rod Fergusson the studio head position and tell him that he can bring in his own team if he wants. Then perhaps give some serious consideration to switching over to a new engine. I.d tech or unreal engine etc. Fuck keeping slipspace because of its quirky physics, use something that they can push to it’s potential.
Definitely think they need another support studio at the very least churning out assets and maps for them.
 
Its a picture from womens day you plonker. Do you think this is the whole of 343?

Besides one chick has purple and blue hair how much diversity do you need?
Not that many women like Halo. Are you sure it’s not bring your wife to work day? Naturally I assume the majority brought their sister instead.
 

Ozriel

Member
You can't really be this absent minded to dismiss the fact that MCC ignored PC for 5 years, and the game itself wasn't released on PC, but one game at a time, and pretend that had no impact on active users. It was an insult because they promised Halo MCC the game for PC, and they didn't deliver the game they promised. Comparing it to Spiderman doesn't make any sense, that's complete BS.

This is one of the strangest defenses for MCC I've seen, PC gamers were begging for the game for years and 343 shunned them until the calls for a port slowed down, they finally say they are going to release the game 5 years later, and when the launch date approaches they say "lol no we are going to release one game at a time" so the game really didn't release on PC for 7 years, but you don't think any of that, along with PC gamers witnessing the 3 years it took for 343 to even fix the damn game on the Xbox One, had any impact on player numbers? Are you serious?

Lmao, what is this post?

By the time the MCC released on console, Microsoft weren’t pushing the ‘xbox + PC’ plan and were more interested in using their exclusives to sell consoles. Nobody on PC felt ‘insulted’ or ‘shunned’ because a first party console exclusive didn’t land on PC in 2014.

It took 343 years to figure out all the issues and finally fix the MCC. Why would you expect a PC port before the console issues were fixed? And why would you expect PC ports to be done at the click of a finger? Especially ones with added features?

Your post is filled with weird and confused contradictions. First you claim that delays in putting the games on PC hurt the potential on that platform. But you’re also turning around to attack 343 for doing extensive flighting and releasing the individual games as soon as they were ready vs waiting for the full package. How does this make sense to you?

All this because you’re unable to explain why the MCC isn’t pulling in tons of concurrent players, despite being a polished release of the Halo classics.

You’re still yet to explain why Spiderman is doing well on PC. By your logic, they’ve been begging for it since 2018 and have been ‘shunned’, so it should have cratered.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Definitely think they need another support studio at the very least churning out assets and maps for them.
Perhaps they wouldn’t need more support if what they worked with was less intricate. I don’t know, but something is not right at 343
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member

Where did they get 6.6 million for Halo 5 from? Microsoft said 5 million within a few months and never mentioned the game again. We have no idea what its sales are and if it did better or worse than Halo 4.

Lmao, what is this post?

By the time the MCC released on console, Microsoft weren’t pushing the ‘xbox + PC’ plan and were more interested in using their exclusives to sell consoles. Nobody on PC felt ‘insulted’ or ‘shunned’ because a first party console exclusive didn’t land on PC in 2014.

You have no clue what you're saying.

It took 343 years to figure out all the issues and finally fix the MCC. Why would you expect a PC port before the console issues were fixed? And why would you expect PC ports to be done at the click of a finger? Especially ones with added features?

I didn't even say this.

First you claim that delays in putting the games on PC hurt the potential on that platform. But you’re also turning around to attack 343 for doing extensive flighting and releasing the individual games as soon as they were ready vs waiting for the full package. How does this make sense to you?

Why are you conflating two completely unrepeated things? You're whole post is weird.

Yes, PC gamers were upset that there was a promise to release the game, after a 5 year delay, and then they didn't get the game, which also made them upset, and learned that the games would come in individually one by one with their own release dates, which means they had an even FURTHER delay until they got the whole MCC.

I have no idea how something that simple is confusing you. Yes they had a right to be mad. What's confusing is your comparison to Spiderman when the situations are entirely different.
 
Last edited:

clarky

Member
Where did they get 6.6 million for Halo 5 from? Microsoft said 5 million within a few months and never mentioned the game again. We have no idea what its sales are and if it did better or worse than Halo 4.
I had a bit of a poke around the other day and I think from what i gather when patcher said the sales were inline with the rest of the series, it was 5mill+ digital sales which weren't counted back then. 9million life time isnt far fetched if thats the case on a 60/40 split.

Even if thats bollocks and we low ball and say 6 million, not too shabby on an install base of 50 million Xboxes. I say it was pretty successful either way, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
 
Last edited:

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
I had a bit of a poke around the other day and I think from what i gather when patcher said the sales were inline with the rest of the series, it was 5mill+ digital sales which weren't counted back then. 9million life time isnt far fetched if thats the case on a 60/40 split.

Even if thats bollocks and we low ball and say 6 million, not too shabby on an install base of 50 million Xboxes. I say it was pretty successful either way, but that doesn't fit your narrative.

Did you imagine a narrative? I never argued that Halo 5 sold bad, I just want real numbers.

Pachter is also not a popular person with the mods here, tried to make a thread on an interview over a week ago and it was shut down and that wasn't about game sales, it seems he just pulls numbers from thin air.
 
Last edited:

clarky

Member
Did you imagine a narrative? I never argued that Halo 5 sold bad, I just want real numbers.

Pachter is also not a popular person with the mods here, tried to make a thread on an interview over a week ago and it was shut down and that wasn't about game sales, it seems he just pulls numbers from thin air.
Your arguing that 343 should be disbanded, im countering saying their games sold very well with the limited information we have and making a best guess. Do you think it sold zero copies digitally and zero retail after 3 months?

Even going off what we know Halo 4 sold around 9 million life time on an install base of around 85 milllion so ten percent of xbox owners and even if Halo5 did only 5 million (unlikely) that still ten percent of the user base. Infinite is different and hard to guess for obvious reasons but it was the top selling game when it came out and won multiple game of the year awards. Hardly the disaster some make out. Great game, shit live service. Like I said its a hell of a lot better than year one Destiny was and look where that franchise is now.

Why would MS disband a very successful studio? Just to satisfy a few nerds on the internet? Not happening.

Not saying Halo is were it needs to be, i think every knows that. Just saying 343 is quite a way off from being disbanded like your calling for.
 
Last edited:

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Your arguing that 343 should be disbanded, im countering saying their games sold very well with the limited information we have and making a best guess. Do you think it sold zero copies digitally and zero retail after 3 months?

Even going off what we know Halo 4 sold around 9 million life time on an install base of around 85 milllion so ten percent of xbox owners and even if Halo5 did only 5 million (unlikely) that still ten percent of the user base. Infinite is different and hard to guess but it was the top selling game when it came out and won multiple game of the year awards. Hardly the disaster some make out. Great game, shit live service. Like I said its a hell of a lot better than year one Destiny was and look where that franchise is now.

Not saying Halo is were it need to be, just saying 343 is quite a way off from being disbanded like your calling for.

Almost every number you posted is estimated out of limited information or comes from Vgchartz or Pachter.

We have no evidence that the actual games they are releasing are selling well or within expectations. Game of the year awards don't mean anything because a studios viability is based on results and revenue generated.

Halo Infinite is supposed to be a live service game that is supposed to bring in and retain high player numbers over a long period of time, and so far that objective is not looking rosy. It's not like Halo 5 where the goal is copies sold digital+retail. The goal here is F2P, high player numbers+revenue.
 

clarky

Member
Almost every number you posted is estimated out of limited information or comes from Vgchartz or Pachter.

We have no evidence that the actual games they are releasing are selling well or within expectations. Game of the year awards don't mean anything because a studios viability is based on results and revenue generated.

Halo Infinite is supposed to be a live service game that is supposed to bring in and retain high player numbers over a long period of time, and so far that objective is not looking rosy. It's not like Halo 5 where the goal is copies sold digital+retail. The goal here is F2P, high player numbers+revenue.

Even going off what we know Halo 4 sold around 9 million life time on an install base of around 85 milllion so ten percent of xbox owners and even if Halo5 did only 5 million (unlikely) that still ten percent of the user base.
Halo 4 sales are well known and published, as are the 360 figures, the Halo 5 and Xbox one figures. I used these figures as you used them yourself. Did Halo 4 not sell over 9 million and Halo over 5mill? if not i stand corrected.

Halo 5 also made bank from Req packs, you know live service.
 
Top Bottom