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Opinion i am starting to like chromatic aberration/film grain...etc

niilokin

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personally I like post process effects, they add consistency and can help direct the eye, add to the mood and tone, but not all games are supposed to be cinematic in look so it doesn't fit in every game. but some people want realistic graphics but at the same time want everything to look razor sharp, thats some "hyper realistic modded skyrim"-level cognitive impairment.
 
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Never ever. I always turn it off. It's a hardline stance.

Let's say that one game in 20 actually does get improved by the effect. I'm still better off not wasting my time agonizing over the minute differences switching it on and off trying to compare it.
 
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Hunnybun

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Ok, am I just being incredibly stupid here, or is film grain not a particular problem of images on FILM? And is it not the case that films have not actually been shot on film for quite some time now?

So why the fuck am I still seeing film grain in new films (let alone games?!) and Netflix shows etc? Is it just pure pretentiousness/fashion?

Same goes for fucking ultrawide productions which are completely pointless now that film projectors are a thing of the past and 2.35:1 TVs are nowhere on the horizon. It's so bizarre going to the pictures these days and seeing actual "black" bars at the top and bottom of the picture.
 
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Demigod Mac

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Stylistic choice, for better or worse.
For the new Dune movie for example, they shot it digitally, printed it onto film and re-scanned it to give it a fine layer of grain that didn't look fake like some of the artificial grain filters.
(the grain filter Netflix uses for their shows looks awful IMO)
 

Novacain

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Oh god you've been brain washed - at least it's not as bad as that thread saying to enable motionsmoothing on your TV "to make any game 60fps".
 
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amscanner

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I've always have liked them. It's all about imperfection. What we are seeing in reality.

I don't get the gamers' obsession about 'sharp' 'clean' 'no fuzzy' graphics anyway. I mean they've even hate volumetric lightning.

Video games have too 'clean' digital graphic that need to be dirted so post processing is inevitable.
 
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Hunnybun

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Stylistic choice, for better or worse.
For the new Dune movie for example, they shot it digitally, printed it onto film and re-scanned it to give it a fine layer of grain that didn't look fake like some of the artificial grain filters.
(the grain filter Netflix uses for their shows looks awful IMO)

God that's so dumb.

I think Netflix content looks pretty much universally terrible, and it's always because of some apparent concession to a 'cinematic' image (ie deliberately degraded for style).

It's nuts. We're at the point now where PS5 games are a way better demonstration of my OLED tv than actual high budget live action productions.
 

tsumake

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Isn’t it a bit weird to have these “defects” on a pure digital image? I admit, I sometimes enjoy CA in certain games but film grain on a computer generated image seems weird. I could understand video noise or using a composite video filter though.
 
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tsumake

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God that's so dumb.

I think Netflix content looks pretty much universally terrible, and it's always because of some apparent concession to a 'cinematic' image (ie deliberately degraded for style).

It's nuts. We're at the point now where PS5 games are a way better demonstration of my OLED tv than actual high budget live action productions.

Per that point : it’s always easy to degrade an image. Given the budgets of some of these productions they could actually shoot on film for that grainy look, like TWD.

In some ways, your PS5 is a more logical showpiece of your tv. It was designed for it.
 
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Hunnybun

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Per that point : it’s always easy to degrade an image. Given the budgets of some of these productions they could actually shoot on film for that grainy look, like TWD.

In some ways, your PS5 is a more logical showpiece of your tv. It was designed for it.

Yeah but it needn't be that way. Big budget live action should still produce a more impressive image than a PS5 game, all things being equal. It's just that a few idiots decided that a 'cinematic' image must mean one that displays the defects of past technologies used in cinema, rather than the best quality picture possible, which was what always used to be the target. And then apparently an entire industry just copied them like a herd of sheep.
 

tsumake

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Yeah but it needn't be that way. Big budget live action should still produce a more impressive image than a PS5 game, all things being equal. It's just that a few idiots decided that a 'cinematic' image must mean one that displays the defects of past technologies used in cinema, rather than the best quality picture possible, which was what always used to be the target. And then apparently an entire industry just copied them like a herd of sheep.

Well, TVs are designed to run at 60hz and above. Movies are still shot at 24fps, which make playback an issue anyway. And any cineaste would disagree with you on what “the best quality picture possible” is. In the 80s people thought Beta SP was the bees knees and thought it couldn’t get any better….
 

Hunnybun

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Well, TVs are designed to run at 60hz and above. Movies are still shot at 24fps, which make playback an issue anyway. And any cineaste would disagree with you on what “the best quality picture possible” is. In the 80s people thought Beta SP was the bees knees and thought it couldn’t get any better….

I honestly don't know what any of that has to do with anything I wrote.
 

tsumake

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I honestly don't know what any of that has to do with anything I wrote.

I’m not trying to argue with you. Movies and videogames are different mediums. Movies were designed for big screen viewing and initially on film projectors. Videogames were specifically designed for TVs. It makes sense you would have a bigger wow factor with your PS5. I would expect that too. I don’t want to watch a movie at 60 or 120fps.
 

Clear

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Isn’t it a bit weird to have these “defects” on a pure digital image? I admit, I sometimes enjoy CA in certain games but film grain on a computer generated image seems weird. I could understand video noise or using a composite video filter though.

Not everyone shares the belief that perfect clarity is desirable. The distortions and effects you get using optical lenses give a certain heightened reality. For example you shoot an actor using a bright torch-light in a darkened space with an anamorphic (widescreen) lens and you can get lovely lens-flares that stretch the entire width of the frame.

Now obviously if you were stood there on the set watching the scene being shot, you wouldn't see that. You'd have to look at the playback monitor, where it would appear because it is the product of a real-world phenomenon - one that happens within the lens of the camera being used.

Which in turn is kinda the nitty-gritty reason why its an "effect" not a "defect". A screen isn't a window. Its a device that displays recorded or generated imagery. Hence by simulating "in-lens" effects, the intent is to ground the scene into a more physical reality by simulating the sort of result you'd see were you watching a *live* event through the camera.

As much as anything its about creating the illusion that you're not just watching an animation. Because an animated movie is another situation where you aren't going to get lens-flares or anything like that because there is no actual light source within the image- its just drawn or rendered in.
 

Stooky

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I like it in cinematic story games. In competitive multiplayer games i need that image to be pristine as fuck.
 
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tsumake

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Not everyone shares the belief that perfect clarity is desirable. The distortions and effects you get using optical lenses give a certain heightened reality. For example you shoot an actor using a bright torch-light in a darkened space with an anamorphic (widescreen) lens and you can get lovely lens-flares that stretch the entire width of the frame.

Now obviously if you were stood there on the set watching the scene being shot, you wouldn't see that. You'd have to look at the playback monitor, where it would appear because it is the product of a real-world phenomenon - one that happens within the lens of the camera being used.

Which in turn is kinda the nitty-gritty reason why its an "effect" not a "defect". A screen isn't a window. Its a device that displays recorded or generated imagery. Hence by simulating "in-lens" effects, the intent is to ground the scene into a more physical reality by simulating the sort of result you'd see were you watching a *live* event through the camera.

As much as anything its about creating the illusion that you're not just watching an animation. Because an animated movie is another situation where you aren't going to get lens-flares or anything like that because there is no actual light source within the image- its just drawn or rendered in.

I kind of get that. I think it works in some games that have an animated quality to it, like “Little Nightmares.” It looks weird on games that strive more for realism like Mass Effect. You need a bit of artifice in the first place for it to work.
 
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captainpat

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I want my game to look as close to the developers intent as possible (well, unless I'm feeling mod-happy) but I don't get chromatic aberration. I would love for a dev to explain to me why I should keep it on in their games.
 

I_D

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I'm not going to say that they're "never" worthwhile, but I will say that they're almost never worthwhile.


I cannot think of a single game in which those filters actually add to the experience.

Alien: Isolation, and RE: 7/8 definitely have a different feel to the gameplay when those filters are activated, but I hesitate to claim they're better.
Other than that handful of games, I can't think of any which actually benefit from the filters.

I would definitely love to be proven wrong, though. Clearly, developers (who are far better at this type of thing than I am) enjoy the features. There must be some kind of benefit involved, or else they wouldn't bother devoting their time to such things.
My - very basic - understanding of such things is that they make the screen more difficult to see. I can definitely understand how this could add to tension, or create a memorable moment. but the current results don't seem to mirror that intent.
If anybody has any examples of games in which filters create a clear advantage, I'd love to see them.
 
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tsumake

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I'm not going to say that they're "never" worthwhile, but I will say that they're almost never worthwhile.


I cannot think of a single game in which those filters actually add to the experience.

Alien: Isolation, and RE: 7/8 definitely have a different feel to the gameplay when those filters are activated, but I hesitate to claim they're better.
Other than that handful of games, I can't think of any which actually benefit from the filters.

I would definitely love to be proven wrong, though. Clearly, developers (who are far better at this type of thing than I am) enjoy the features. There must be some kind of benefit involved, or else they wouldn't bother devoting their time to such things.
My - very basic - understanding of such things is that they make the screen more difficult to see. I can definitely understand how this could add to tension, or create a memorable moment. but the current results don't seem to mirror that intent.
If anybody has any examples of games in which filters create a clear advantage, I'd love to see them.

Agree with your statement. I’m sure there are/will be games that use these effects to great effect (pun) but it really depends on the game.
 

Trimesh

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Not everyone shares the belief that perfect clarity is desirable. The distortions and effects you get using optical lenses give a certain heightened reality. For example you shoot an actor using a bright torch-light in a darkened space with an anamorphic (widescreen) lens and you can get lovely lens-flares that stretch the entire width of the frame.

Which is exactly the point - this is an artefact of an imperfection in the recording process. It's not something you perceive in reality. CA and film grain are exactly the same - the perceived effects of a defect in the process. The suggestion that this stuff should be added back to a medium that doesn't have these defects seems obtuse. I can understand adding them to movies because people have been conditioned through long exposure to expect them - but honestly the first time I saw a lens flare in a video game my immediate reaction was to think "why the fuck would you do that" - I had read the SIGGRAPH papers talking about faking lens flares and they made some sense in context (because if you are comping together camera images and CGI having the CGI look too clean makes it stand out in a bad way) - but deliberately introducing them in a context were there is absolutely zero technical reason for them to be there just seems bizarre.

Of course, part of this may be colored by my opinion that "cinematic" games are huge lurch in the wrong direction.
 
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haxan7

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I've always liked chromatic aberration. I never understood the hate.

It was used perfectly in Bloodborne.
 
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Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
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I hate every post processing effect that makes games look uglier. Which would be just about every post processing effect. They all need to be able to be turned off.
 

Kerotan

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Both of these are optional for the new ratchet and spiderman games. Are they worth putting on? Or at least any level of film grain?
 

cormack12

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I hate every post processing effect that makes games look uglier. Which would be just about every post processing effect. They all need to be able to be turned off.
Me too. Options, turn all that off or down at least. Some games do benefit from a little grain to add a little texture.

But saying that, the CA in Bloodborne didn't really bother me. The horrific aliasing did though.
 

Trimesh

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Both of these are optional for the new ratchet and spiderman games. Are they worth putting on? Or at least any level of film grain?

That's honestly a question only you can answer for yourself - if you feel that the image is subjectively better with them turned on then you should obviously do so.
 
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I love effects like that and always have, it tricks your brain into thinking that you're less looking at a video game and more like you're looking at real footage.

It also just overall makes graphics look smoother in the case of CA.

I remember how blown my mind was when I first saw motion blur in Perfect Dark Zero.
 

Hunnybun

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I’m not trying to argue with you. Movies and videogames are different mediums. Movies were designed for big screen viewing and initially on film projectors. Videogames were specifically designed for TVs. It makes sense you would have a bigger wow factor with your PS5. I would expect that too. I don’t want to watch a movie at 60 or 120fps.

It doesn't really matter. Films should still look more impressive than games regardless of whether they're specifically designed for a tv or not, because their ability to capture the real world precisely (and use offline rendering) is such an overwhelming advantage over real time graphics.

And modern films/shows aren't even held back by the need to be shot on film.
 

NeonGhost

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eric cartman running GIF by South Park
 

tsumake

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It doesn't really matter. Films should still look more impressive than games regardless of whether they're specifically designed for a tv or not, because their ability to capture the real world precisely (and use offline rendering) is such an overwhelming advantage over real time graphics.

And modern films/shows aren't even held back by the need to be shot on film.

Are you streaming? That would be holding back the quality. A reference quality blu ray on a properly calibrated tv would make a world of difference.
 

Hunnybun

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Are you streaming? That would be holding back the quality. A reference quality blu ray on a properly calibrated tv would make a world of difference.

Yeah but that's nothing like the whole problem.

I've seen videos on YouTube designed to show off 4k and even they look better than streams of modern shows and films.
 

nkarafo

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Chromatic aberration
Film grain
Full screen motion blur
Auto exposure
Vignette


They all need to die.
Or at least allow ON/OFF options
 

Black_Stride

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Chromatic aberration
Film grain
Full screen motion blur
Auto exposure
Vignette


They all need to die.
Or at least allow ON/OFF options

Never!

Okay Auto Exposure can go...ive never really seen the benefit of it.
CA when applied properly can make games better stylistically....which is of course subjective
Full Screen Motion Blur, actually looks really good in Racing games, everywhere else per object please.
Film Grain....is really hard to get right, give me a slider so I can get it just right.
Vignette I dont really have a problem with.
 
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Hugare

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Love them when done right.

Film grain in Mass Effect (original) and Alien Isolation are awesome

Works really well also on TLOU 2 and Dying Light

Chromatic Aberration worked in Dying Light only. In Bloodborne it destroys image quality.

In Cyberpunk, for example, I noped the fuck out. It has waaay too much post processing already, so I turn film grain and CA right off.

But people who hate Motion Blur are weird. Specially now with good per object implementations, it helps fluidity a lot.

Overall, I'm glad that those guys who use Reshade and complain about "piss filters" arent professional artists working in the industry
 
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No.. Just no. Film grain can have it's use on very rare occasions. But Chromatic aberration is an abomination. 99.8% of the time film grain is overused and should be turned off/lowered. 100% of the time CA needs to be turned off.
Chromatic aberration is meant to look like you're looking through a camera lens.
 

Boss Mog

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Chromatic aberration is the worst thing ever which is probably why TikTok chose it for its logo since TikTok is also the worst thing ever.
 

Knightime_X

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I like ca mostly for dark gloomy creepy games.
Ca looks weird in bright and sunny games or when a super crisp clean image is desired and looks cgi like ratchet and Clank.
 
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rofif

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CA looks great in Bloodborne. Makes it feel this weird dreamy.
Motion blur is great when it's the per object variety. To help you see movement. Or in racing games. Again - look at Bloodborne or Ratchet. Movement frames are blended thanks to motion blur. When You swing that sword, You don't just see 3 frames of it since it moves so fast. You see the full motion and speed
Film grain is good to help as dithering to reduce gradient banding. But it's rarely done well.
 
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tsumake

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Yeah but that's nothing like the whole problem.

I've seen videos on YouTube designed to show off 4k and even they look better than streams of modern shows and films.

Streaming has much lower bitrate and more compression than a uhd blu ray. If you want the most out of your movie you need to get a good player and a physical disc.
 

Rayderism

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Film grain is especially bad on a game with dynamic resolution. It lowers the res, and the grain becomes like static. Noticed that in Control on PS4 Pro. Turning it off completely eliminated that weirdness.

Chromatic aberration......I don't know......seems odd to purposely want to add in artifacts/flaws that exist in camera tech to a video game. I guess it's OK when used for effect, but like anything in games, bad when overused.

Motion blur.....useful for 30fps games to minimize judder, but mostly unnecessary for 60fps or higher.
 
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Hunnybun

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Streaming has much lower bitrate and more compression than a uhd blu ray. If you want the most out of your movie you need to get a good player and a physical disc.

I'm well aware! That's why I said it's not the whole problem, and cited YouTube videos as evidence.

Also, there are SOME shows even on Netflix that look fantastic on a 4k screen, better than any game. They're just few and far between. But it's definitely possible, even on streaming services.

Personally I've no intention of ever buying physical media again. It shouldn't be necessary. I don't understand why Netflix doesn't let you download stuff anyway.
 

MetalRain

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I don't mind CA on some pixel art 2D game like Dead Cells or something like Psychonauts which doesn't even try to be realistic, but I usually disable that option. I guess film grain is similar, fine on games like Inside where it can add atmosphere, but doesn't work on games like TrackMania where you want to have clean sharp presentation.
 

tsumake

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I'm well aware! That's why I said it's not the whole problem, and cited YouTube videos as evidence.

Also, there are SOME shows even on Netflix that look fantastic on a 4k screen, better than any game. They're just few and far between. But it's definitely possible, even on streaming services.

Personally I've no intention of ever buying physical media again. It shouldn't be necessary. I don't understand why Netflix doesn't let you download stuff anyway.

I guess you’ll just have to have your cake and eat it too.
 

Knightime_X

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If you wear glasses, you see chromatic aberration on a daily basis.
Look at the edges of a light source.
Looking at the top of your glasses, you will see a red outline.
Through the bottom you'll see blue.

And if you hate CA this makes it even more hilarious.
 
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