How Uncharted's PC launch speaks to Naughty Dog’s present and future

The CC users on Steam is almost 8000, that's kind of low 😳 (Days Gone was 27 500)

It's still better than Requiem that came out yesterday and the CC was less than 5000 on launch day. This is flop territory, even Scorn got more. I'm very shocked at Plague Tale being so low.
It's the middle of the week...I own the game but I'm not in those numbers because I only play at weekends.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
It's the middle of the week...I own the game but I'm not in those numbers because I only play at weekends.

This week we also have Persona 5 Royale, NEO TWEWY, Crash 4 and A Plague Tale: Requiem on Steam. Its a bloodbath
 

ClosBSAS

Member
The CC users on Steam is almost 8000, that's kind of low 😳 (Days Gone was 27 500)

It's still better than Requiem that came out yesterday and the CC was less than 5000 on launch day. This is flop territory, even Scorn got more. I'm very shocked at Plague Tale being so low.
It's very low but again, no hype, no marketing from Sony, it's like they were expecting PC crowd to love naughty dog. Days gone selling more tells u a bit about the crowd. Returnal and demons souls would sell like hot cakes, sack boy is gonna be on the low end as well. Hopefully it won't make sony question their PC strategy, but in the long run it'll sell decent. Shitty ass regional pricing doesn't help either
 

sainraja

Member
IMO, they dropped the ball with TLOU remake so this has already happened.
Their design choice with TLOU remake (unfortunately) was to stick to the original — that doesn't really speak to how they could address which technology they use and adjust to different system specifications.

And another reason they worked on the remake was likely to put it on PC. Different goals basically. If they were trying to re-invent TLOU: R, we probably would have gotten something a little different.

You have a point still, I don't remember the messaging being clear around that.
 
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SlimySnake

The Contrarian
Their design choice with TLOU remake (unfortunately) was to stick to the original — that doesn't really speak to how they could address which technology they use and adjust to different system specifications.

And another reason they worked on the remake was likely to put it on PC. Different goals basically. If they were trying to re-invent TLOU: R, we probably would have gotten something a little different.

You have a point still, I don't remember the messaging being clear around that.
I think Bluepoint had the same design choice. Stay as close to the original as possible but they still pushed visuals. Besides, just look at the chnages they made to the character models, they clearly didnt care about sticking close to the original. The game looked underwhelming because it was built on a PS4 engine with PS4 assets.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
IMO, they dropped the ball with TLOU remake so this has already happened.
I think that's a side effect of a troubled development with the original dev (especially when COVID hit), then switched over to ND to sure it up and get it out ASAP, they also didn't use "all hands on deck."

Their next core game should be returned to form of what we expect.
 
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People saying just port the remastered trilogy to PC are really short-sighted. The games don't hold up very well, especially the first game.
The heavy lifting with porting from PS3 to more PC-like PS4 was already done, and adding a better texture pack is fan-mod work of bored capable fans, recently AIs probably can do it, which would improve the visuals already tremendously, and on top of that maybe they could add raytracing and that would be imho better than releasing successors which kind of require to have played predecessors. It at least makes a lot more sense to play them in release order.
The games imho still look nice, any old but then AAA-game with a 1080p resolution looks good, not jaw on the floor, but nice enough. All three of them. Almost all PS360 games look good enough for remasters. Even some emulated PS2 or even N64 games can look good enough. As long as the result is not like Silent Hill HD collection where the remaster killed the atmosphere or GTA Collection where they replaced much stuff, but insanely sloppy, then imho most people would accept them for what they are. If there are plans to remake them properly that should have happened before doing the successors, otherwise just release a quick port with some work on top.
 
The heavy lifting with porting from PS3 to more PC-like PS4 was already done, and adding a better texture pack is fan-mod work of bored capable fans, recently AIs probably can do it, which would improve the visuals already tremendously, and on top of that maybe they could add raytracing and that would be imho better than releasing successors which kind of require to have played predecessors. It at least makes a lot more sense to play them in release order.
The games imho still look nice, any old but then AAA-game with a 1080p resolution looks good, not jaw on the floor, but nice enough. All three of them. Almost all PS360 games look good enough for remasters. Even some emulated PS2 or even N64 games can look good enough. As long as the result is not like Silent Hill HD collection where the remaster killed the atmosphere or GTA Collection where they replaced much stuff, but insanely sloppy, then imho most people would accept them for what they are. If there are plans to remake them properly that should have happened before doing the successors, otherwise just release a quick port with some work on top.
I'm talking about the gameplay, not just the graphics.
 
Honestly? I think Naughty Dog might be developing TLOU Remake in-house for PC as well as TLOU2 Director's Cut when it eventually releases because Factions is also a PC day one release and they have been developing for that platform for a while already.

This Uncharted release is just the first step for them.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Speak to me pretty loud:
 

sainraja

Member
I think Naughty Dog was in a bit of a catch-22 here.

People saying just port the remastered trilogy to PC are really short-sighted. The games don't hold up very well, especially the first game.
There are many games that exist on PC right now that won't hold up well to those Uncharted games so I don't see that as a good reason not to bring them.
 

MachRc

Member
quick question, is this uncharted collection thats 50 bucks on steam the same as the PS4 version I see on Ebay used for 5 bucks>?

 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
quick question, is this uncharted collection thats 50 bucks on steam the same as the PS4 version I see on Ebay used for 5 bucks>?

No. That PS4 one is Uncharted 1-3 (remastered PS3 games).

The PC one is Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy (PS4/5).
 
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Senua

Member
I think Naughty Dog was in a bit of a catch-22 here.

People saying just port the remastered trilogy to PC are really short-sighted. The games don't hold up very well, especially the first game.

I think they've made the right choice. Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy will still be there when they eventually bring over the trilogy remade, but they really need to be focused on their other more important projects.

This might even be something for a different studio, but even Bluepoint is obviously busy.

I think they should have put more effort to bring the gameplay of LOU1 in line with LOU2, so if they similarly remake UC1-3, they really need to bring gameplay enhancements this time around.
It's only really the first Uncharted thats janky, though still has it's charm
 
I think Bluepoint had the same design choice. Stay as close to the original as possible but they still pushed visuals. Besides, just look at the chnages they made to the character models, they clearly didnt care about sticking close to the original. The game looked underwhelming because it was built on a PS4 engine with PS4 assets.

I think there are times where you leave the gameplay the same where appropriate and just update the visuals.

A lot of that comes down to the history of the game and how the game stands up.

I don't think there is an absolute rule.

Like if I was going to remake Super Mario World, first off, I wouldn't the game's art style absolutely holds up and so does the gameplay.

But look at Chrono Trigger... That game requires a face lift and updated pixel art or maybe cel-shaded 3d graphics if it could be done tastefully like a windwaker meets dbz fighterz

If you look at Metal Gear Solid, you can go one of two ways. You can Upgrade just the assets and leave the gameplay alone or you can modernize it so that it matches what we remember we played but with modern controls. I think the latter is the better thing to do, but it is also the riskier thing to do and the more time-consuming thing to do. You have to redesign the game around modern controls, which is what twin snakes failed to do.
 
It's only really the first Uncharted thats janky, though still has it's charm

And that is the first game people would play and that would be how they decide if they're going to play the entire franchise... You have to upgrade it.

And if you upgrade the first one, you have to upgrade 2 and 3, otherwise, you now have a disparate experience.

I actually only played 5-10 minutes of Uncharted when it first came out. Didn't really care for it. Played Uncharted 2 and LOVED it and eventually went back and kind of forced myself to play the first game which was janky even then let alone now.
 
The CC users on Steam is almost 8000, that's kind of low 😳 (Days Gone was 27 500)

It's still better than Requiem that came out yesterday and the CC was less than 5000 on launch day. This is flop territory, even Scorn got more. I'm very shocked at Plague Tale being so low.
Plague Tale is also on Gamepass so I'm sure a large chunk of people are playing it there instead of paying full price on Steam
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
It's not like they're launching fireworks and the whole orchestra on console too these days. Where's my showcase at?
They also keep saying that consoles are their primary focus, PC is extra money with late ports. It's fine by me.
Bolded print is the truest of the true.
 

Senua

Member
And that is the first game people would play and that would be how they decide if they're going to play the entire franchise... You have to upgrade it.

And if you upgrade the first one, you have to upgrade 2 and 3, otherwise, you now have a disparate experience.

I actually only played 5-10 minutes of Uncharted when it first came out. Didn't really care for it. Played Uncharted 2 and LOVED it and eventually went back and kind of forced myself to play the first game which was janky even then let alone now.
I think people would go in knowing the games are old, also mouse and keyboard aiming would probably fix a lot of the problems I had with the first game anyway
 
There are many games that exist on PC right now that won't hold up well to those Uncharted games so I don't see that as a good reason not to bring them.

Sony will want these games to be introduced in the most consumable way to gain as many consumers as possible.

Hence why it would probably be their preference to remake these rather than port them.

Uncharted 4 sold almost as much as the first 3 games combined... It makes sense that a lot of people who bought Uncharted 4 never played the first three games, so it makes sense that people on PC can at least start here.
 

Skifi28

Member
I was speaking with a friend that is PC only and he would never start a series from the 4th game. I imagine many are in the same boat, really odd decision unless there's a remake around the corner (very unlikely for all 3 games).
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
I think there are times where you leave the gameplay the same where appropriate and just update the visuals.

A lot of that comes down to the history of the game and how the game stands up.

I don't think there is an absolute rule.

Like if I was going to remake Super Mario World, first off, I wouldn't the game's art style absolutely holds up and so does the gameplay.

But look at Chrono Trigger... That game requires a face lift and updated pixel art or maybe cel-shaded 3d graphics if it could be done tastefully like a windwaker meets dbz fighterz

If you look at Metal Gear Solid, you can go one of two ways. You can Upgrade just the assets and leave the gameplay alone or you can modernize it so that it matches what we remember we played but with modern controls. I think the latter is the better thing to do, but it is also the riskier thing to do and the more time-consuming thing to do. You have to redesign the game around modern controls, which is what twin snakes failed to do.
Well, they failed to do both. The visuals and gameplay both were last gen.

At the end of the day, their real next gen TLOU3 will look next gen. They wont hold back the visuals to keep it consistent with TLOU1 or TLOU2, will they? I mean they clearly didnt mind making TLOU2 next gen as fuck so they didnt care about consistenty and pushed both gameplay and visual fidelity.

Its all just a bs excuse to minimize the fact that the game looks last gen as fuck. They know this which is why they got defensive on twitter and why they made ridiculous statements on stage to Keighley. TLOU3 will look a gen ahead of TLOU2 and everyone here will cream their pants, call them Gods, and declare them the greatest devs that ever existed. No one will give two shits about consistency.
 
Well, they failed to do both. The visuals and gameplay both were last gen.

At the end of the day, their real next gen TLOU3 will look next gen. They wont hold back the visuals to keep it consistent with TLOU1 or TLOU2, will they? I mean they clearly didnt mind making TLOU2 next gen as fuck so they didnt care about consistenty and pushed both gameplay and visual fidelity.

Its all just a bs excuse to minimize the fact that the game looks last gen as fuck. They know this which is why they got defensive on twitter and why they made ridiculous statements on stage to Keighley. TLOU3 will look a gen ahead of TLOU2 and everyone here will cream their pants, call them Gods, and declare them the greatest devs that ever existed. No one will give two shits about consistency.
I agree with you completely on LOU1

but it is more in line with the modern look of the game.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
No, I don't buy it. As we can see there's no headroom on the engine as it's already basically maxed out as is. They used PS5 extra power to fix their weaknesses, like shadows, provide 60fps modes, and feature higher general setting. That's it.
What you are seeing there is something I see every gen on PC. I build one at the tail end of every gen to play games at 60 fps. Been doing it since 2004. But Ultra settings bring these GPUs to their knees. I could not run Crysis at Extreme Settings despite buying a 2011 GPU for $350. I could not run any game at ULTRA settings on my $700 2080 in 2018. Those highest setting presets have insanely high GPU requirements. I remember shadows were like 30% on their own. Even today on my 3080, the only games I can max out are games released in 2010s. Games released in the last two years have ultra settings that destroy the framerate. And thats what you are seeing here with TLOU remake. Shadows, AA, motion blur all hit the GPU really hard. Back in 2012, Far Cry 3 ultra vs medium was literally a 100% difference in performance. ND pushed the sliders to max and of course there is no headroom.

You're right that they have to start upgrading their engine. They need a UE5 style overhaul. They have to upgrade their assets. Their character models. Their hair rendering. The lighting feels awful in so many scenarios. PS twitter gets recommended to me in my feed and they were posting a bunch of gifs of Ellie telling jokes and i swear the lighting made it look awful.

I was hoping that Sony first party studios would really go and write their own mesh shader/primitive shader APIs but i have yet to see anything. But ive seen UE4 demos like Rebirth that didnt use ray tracing, nanite, mesh shaders and any next gen tech that looks next gen so i highly doubt PC gaming is holding back ND here. It's more of an ambition problem.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Say goodbye to Naughty Dog games being the visual benchmarks of the industry. They won't touch new generations, scalable engines like UE5, and sure as hell won't develop a new Engine specifically built for PS5 architecture.
yep instead they'll be developed for RTX 4090s and look on par with most CGI movies :messenger_ok:
 

SNG32

Member
What's the point of owning a PlayStation console then? as a customer who bought all the consoles, I feel left out: no new games annoucements to look forward to, no retro games in their premium service, no disc based backwards compatibility solution for their older consoles.

Playstation seem to be only communicating on PC releases these past few weeks.
3 - 4 year old games they are communicating. You have to be kidding me with this post did you not watch state of play with the PS5 exclusives coming down the pipeline. If you want some what better backwards compatibility your best is to invest in a PC since RPCS3 is getting better by the day and you will probably be able to play more PS1, PS2, PS3, Vita and PSP games then you ever could with that bullshit premium service they have. Only thing a PS5 is good for is the new console exclusives that will get released. Which PC gamers will probably be waiting on.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It's only really the first Uncharted thats janky, though still has it's charm
And that is the first game people would play and that would be how they decide if they're going to play the entire franchise... You have to upgrade it.

And if you upgrade the first one, you have to upgrade 2 and 3, otherwise, you now have a disparate experience.

I actually only played 5-10 minutes of Uncharted when it first came out. Didn't really care for it. Played Uncharted 2 and LOVED it and eventually went back and kind of forced myself to play the first game which was janky even then let alone now.
Didn't Bluepoint update the character models and controls to be like UC2/3 across all 3 games in the remaster?

Pretty sure they did, and it fixed that jank making for a more cohesive experience.
 

Warablo

Member
I figured TLOU online was taking so long was because they wanted to launch on PC.

EDIT: Damn, they didn't even launch the first 3 games on PC. Who would want to start with Uncharted 4 if they never played the others.
 
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SlimySnake

The Contrarian
3 - 4 year old games they are communicating. You have to be kidding me with this post did you not watch state of play with the PS5 exclusives coming down the pipeline. If you want some what better backwards compatibility your best is to invest in a PC since RPCS3 is getting better by the day and you will probably be able to play more PS1, PS2, PS3, Vita and PSP games then you ever could with that bullshit premium service they have. Only thing a PS5 is good for is the new console exclusives that will get released. Which PC gamers will probably be waiting on.
You must have missed Herman's latest announcement that GaaS games from Sony first party will launch on Day one. That would include TLOU Factions from Naughty Dog. Horizon MP and whatever Insomniac is cooking up.

TLOU was also announced as coming very soon to PC. Announced in the same trailer as the PS5 version. Thats not a 3-4 year old game. We are looking at 3-4 month old port. Returnal came out last year and we've already seen leaks for it. Should release sometime next year. 2 year gap. With Nixxes on board, these dev times will only get shorter.
 
Didn't Bluepoint update the character models and controls to be like UC2/3 across all 3 games in the remaster?

Pretty sure they did, and it fixed that jank making for a more cohesive experience.

They made slight QOL fixes for Uncharted 1, but no it does not play like UC2. It's still trash in comparison.
 
Game is not selling well on steam. I just don't see it as a system seller. Bring on the last of us and demons souls.
It doesnt need to be a system seller. For a lot of people buying the fourth game in a series is weird.. but the older games afent that great anymore in 2022. When it gets a bit discounted im sure we'll see more sales
 

Denton

Member
I do wish Sony would bring back some PS3 games, not just Drake trilogy (which really is a nobrainer since it already runs on x86 PS4), but also stuff like Killzone 2 and 3. Having these great games on platform that never dies would be useful. Emulation is nice but it ain't the same.
 
Well, SlimySnake SlimySnake & TheThreadsThatBindUs TheThreadsThatBindUs , I was apparently right afterall.

Say goodbye to Naughty Dog games being the visual benchmarks of the industry. They won't touch new generations, scalable engines like UE5, and sure as hell won't develop a new Engine specifically built for PS5 architecture.

Wut?!

Where in the quote does it say anything about what you're suggesting?

Developing on PC does not in any way preclude optimising the engine and tools for a console platform. Not only are you wrong, but you're also simply reading your own conclusions into the words of a developer discussing something completely ancillary to their internal console development.
 
What you are seeing there is something I see every gen on PC. I build one at the tail end of every gen to play games at 60 fps. Been doing it since 2004. But Ultra settings bring these GPUs to their knees. I could not run Crysis at Extreme Settings despite buying a 2011 GPU for $350. I could not run any game at ULTRA settings on my $700 2080 in 2018. Those highest setting presets have insanely high GPU requirements. I remember shadows were like 30% on their own. Even today on my 3080, the only games I can max out are games released in 2010s. Games released in the last two years have ultra settings that destroy the framerate. And thats what you are seeing here with TLOU remake. Shadows, AA, motion blur all hit the GPU really hard. Back in 2012, Far Cry 3 ultra vs medium was literally a 100% difference in performance. ND pushed the sliders to max and of course there is no headroom.

You're right that they have to start upgrading their engine. They need a UE5 style overhaul. They have to upgrade their assets. Their character models. Their hair rendering. The lighting feels awful in so many scenarios. PS twitter gets recommended to me in my feed and they were posting a bunch of gifs of Ellie telling jokes and i swear the lighting made it look awful.

I was hoping that Sony first party studios would really go and write their own mesh shader/primitive shader APIs but i have yet to see anything. But ive seen UE4 demos like Rebirth that didnt use ray tracing, nanite, mesh shaders and any next gen tech that looks next gen so i highly doubt PC gaming is holding back ND here. It's more of an ambition problem.
Funny thing about ultra settings. In CP2077 I changed a few shadow sliders and gained 10 fps. Kept the important bits on ultra though- textures LOD etcetera.
 
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