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How the FUCK do devlopers keep getting away with visual downgrades? latest example, Forspoken

Fredrik

Member
For those of you who know game development, what happens? Does the game studio tell a separate team to make an artificial build that looks so much better than the final version (knowing the final game will look worse as it will have other power hungry game mechanics in it), while the core team works on the real build?
Yeah I want to know this too. I don’t think it’s just the PC version since downgrades happens there as well.

How are they actually putting together an early vertical slice?
The engine is still in development, there isn’t really a game with AI etc.
How are they doing it? Are they guessing what it will look like and render individual frames and hand animate things and then put images together into a video?
I don’t understand.
I’ve been posting videos of a hobby Unity game, then it’s the actual game and me playing and I just try to not show the most broken bits.
 
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I dunno, OP. Did you inspect and read the statement on one of the screenshots you posted?

image.png


Quelle surprise when it actually was "subject to change". Who would've funk.

Maybe you should've tempered your expectations instead of getting on the hype train and get shocked when that ride didn't go as planned.
 

Skifi28

Member
The demo did look like this, downgrading confirmed and high ass PC configuration confirmed, Gotham knights all over again.


Not what I'm saying, that second pictures in the OP is like 600p and looks like a dithered mess. The actual game's image quality is nothing like that despite it not being a looker.

Image in the OP:
YoV2vRx.png


Proper image from the demo somebody else already posted:
xRumBrB.jpg


For the record I don't really care about the game either way, but I just found the original comparison extremely dishonest.
 
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Filben

Member
It looks like missing a LOOOOT of ambient occlusion, shadow depth and some shaders. It looks really flat. LOD seems to be lower as well.

And this is what I notice on a small smartphone screen. Must be even worse on a big TV.
 

Fabieter

Member
Not what I'm saying, that second pictures in the OP is like 600p and looks like a dithered mess. The actual game's image quality is nothing like that despite it not being a looker.

Image in the OP:
YoV2vRx.png


Proper image from the demo somebody else already posted:
xRumBrB.jpg


For the record I don't really care about the game either way, but I just found the original comparison extremely dishonest.

The hate train for this game is something else. Iam 10 hours in and it doesnt look nearly as bad like op is pretending. Still not as good as the screeny 2 years ago tho.
 
From on build to another it take months.
When they release a video is not something from one week before but 3-6 months before. Updating the engine also take long time before all machine and devs can get the new stream. So the videos we see are really as they say “in development” and very old.

But if is running why downgrade? depends of the engine , all areas are made from different teams , you may have different shaders for same object in different area. Easily one part of the game can be a lot heavier than other that look similar but made by other team, I imagine in that case to make constant fps they start switching things down instead of going back to remake assets and point finger (many assets are also made by third party).
Is important to note that teams are adding things constantly and daily. The axe come at the end of the cycle and video promo can be made before the end of the cycle .


Anyway. I’m more optimistic with UE5 as it does run better in the machine (console) instead of the editor of the developer PC, so less downgrade for sure or at least easily to spot it.
 
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I struggle to care about this because it's is going to be trash anyway.

I predict that this game is going to be lavished with praise by woke reviewers, but normal people will shit all over it and it'll end up in a virtual bargain bin (i.e. on sale) in a matter of weeks.
It will not sell well. Square is already taking steps to mitigate the damage.
 

anthony2690

Banned
why isn't this illegal?!!!!!!
how many times we gonna get fucked over like this before the sheep actually wake up?

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Does High End Pc look close to what was shown off originally? Or is this just sqaure enix deceiving everyone?

I remember when it was revealed, I said the game won't look that good.

The original project athia trailer was insane.
 

wolffy71

Banned
They get away with it because it seems more and more like these games are either released too early due to pressure, underdeveloped due to cost, downgraded due to time constraints, or super rare home runs.

It seems that game development has gotten to be too costly for 60$ and customers aren't ready for it.
 

nkarafo

Member
Yup. Bullshots have been around since the first game system in the 70s. Back then magazine ads or back of the box art weren't even digital bullshots from an alpha build. They were fake renditions an artist drew at head office.

I remember the most common bullshots were found in multiplatform games, especially on many 8bit computer/console ports which had screens from 16bit/arcade versions on their boxes.
 

sandbood

Banned
Not what I'm saying, that second pictures in the OP is like 600p and looks like a dithered mess. The actual game's image quality is nothing like that despite it not being a looker.

Image in the OP:
YoV2vRx.png


Proper image from the demo somebody else already posted:
xRumBrB.jpg


For the record I don't really care about the game either way, but I just found the original comparison extremely dishonest.
Still doesn't change the fact about low quality assets, textures, geometries, shadows, and flat lighting.

Xenoblade X on cemu looks so much better than Forspoken on PS5.

900844EA7A224C452361487E55F5812F829EAF08
 

GHG

Gold Member
The last time we had a visually spectacular game was RDR2. And that ran on 1.5TF consoles just fine. Demon's Souls also looks spectacular and runs great on PS5. As does Horizon. There is nothing entitled to mock games with extremely outdated visuals requiring top of the line hardware. We've seen countless devs already waste great performance on development shortcuts/incompetence. SeriesX/PS5 are absolutely not low-end hardware by any stretch either. With your mentality, games like Gotham Knights are a user issue, not dev one.

I'm not talking about shit like Gotham Knights though.

I'm talking about situations like this:




And like this:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/...clouds-are-back-starting-with-1-14-5-0/375977

And what is most likely coming with the next Witcher 3 next gen patch. I almost guarantee they will nerf the number of light bounces for ray tracing.

Why should developers bother to provide options only suitable for current top of the line (or even future) hardware when it just results in the majority of their customers bitching and moaning about stuff they dint understand?
 
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Klosshufvud

Member
I'm not talking about shit like Gotham Knights though.

I'm talking about situations like this:




And like this:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/...clouds-are-back-starting-with-1-14-5-0/375977

And what is most likely coming with the next Witcher 3 next gen patch. I almost guarantee they will nerf the number of light bounces for ray tracing.

Why should developers bother to provide options only suitable for current top of the line (or even future) hardware when it just results in the majority of their customers bitching and moaning about stuff they dint understand?

I think the issue with Witcher 3 update was that it set a way higher minimum baseline. So for people who were already struggling were suddenly being updated into an unplayable game. Of course that would frustrate a great amount of low-end gamers who suddenly now own a game they could previously play just fine but now can't. I know this impacted Steam Deck users aswell because Witcher 3 OG was really nice to play on Deck but the update suddenly made previous performance a distant dream.
 

makaveli60

Member
Damn, I thought we were over this donwngrade bullshit. I didn’t evnen think the original reveal looked that good. The PS5 should handle it easily. They might be planning a last gen version down the line.... Anyway, one another reason why this game sucks
 

Utherellus

Member
Not what I'm saying, that second pictures in the OP is like 600p and looks like a dithered mess. The actual game's image quality is nothing like that despite it not being a looker.

Image in the OP:
YoV2vRx.png


Proper image from the demo somebody else already posted:
xRumBrB.jpg


For the record I don't really care about the game either way, but I just found the original comparison extremely dishonest.


Art design struggles extremely here.

It's not only about graphical fidelity. Game art looks sterile and uninspired.
 
Things get altered during development and graphical settings sometimes need to be lowered to get stable performance news at 11.
 

Skifi28

Member
Art design struggles extremely here.

It's not only about graphical fidelity. Game art looks sterile and uninspired.
I'm not sure why people keep quoting me. I'm not discussing whether the visuals or art are good or bad here. All I'm saying is the original comparison in the OP is extremely dishonest using terrible compressed pictures than look much worse than the actual game.
 

Hugare

Member
You can see "subject to change" below one of the examples in the OP

Also, other trailers use "does not represent final look of the game" and etc.

So its perfectly legal.

Be smart and when you see something too good to be true, doubt
 

MiguelItUp

Member
Damn I didn't realize it was THAT bad, lmao. Some pictures look like a gen behind honestly. Shame for those that were looking forward to it expecting it to be some kind of graphical experience. Oof.

I've never been a fan of severely doctored shots, I mean, if you're proud of your work (and you should be) show people what it actually looks like. Don't lie about it.
 
I'm not sure why people keep quoting me. I'm not discussing whether the visuals or art are good or bad here. All I'm saying is the original comparison in the OP is extremely dishonest using terrible compressed pictures than look much worse than the actual game.
It’s very important for some people that everybody knows that ”game is bad!” Especially when someone finds a hole in their argument.
 

digdug2

Member
It literally looks like a PS5 vs PS3 comparison. And lol at 'pc version is gonna be better'. Did watch dogs pc version look like the reveal? Thought so
It looked pretty damn close, once modders found those graphics files on PC that Ubisoft had purposely removed to keep the game at parity with consoles.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yeah I want to know this too. I don’t think it’s just the PC version since downgrades happens there as well.

How are they actually putting together an early vertical slice?
The engine is still in development, there isn’t really a game with AI etc.
How are they doing it? Are they guessing what it will look like and render individual frames and hand animate things and then put images together into a video?
I don’t understand.
I’ve been posting videos of a hobby Unity game, then it’s the actual game and me playing and I just try to not show the most broken bits.
I'm thinking it's a ultras spec PC rig doing it, plus whichever group is putting the trailer out (whether it's the core team or a separate team), they are told to max up settings as high as possible, knowing half the shit isnt even in the game yet so it can be done. Make a misleading 1 minute trailer. It's not like they are using NASA super computers. The hardware they got at the office is running those demos.

After they're done making the trailer, get back to work on the core game where it wont look anything like the trailer as they got to add back all the missing or stripped out stuff which eats into processing power.

It'd be like a car company doing a trailer showing the car can go 0-60 in 5 seconds. The real car people buy does it in 7 seconds. People asked why is it two seconds slower. Turns out the video had a car that stripped out all the seats except the driver, got rid of the spare tire, and got rid of all the metal under the hood not needed for an acceleration demo. So the car is 500 lbs lighter making it faster than the final car.
 
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HarryKS

Member
Have you seen what Final Fantasy Stranger of Paradise and Babylon's Fall look like on PS5?

PS3 level visuals, but not even crisp.
 

Fredrik

Member
I'm thinking it's a ultras spec PC rig doing it, plus whichever group is putting the trailer out (whether it's the core team or a separate team), they are told to max up settings as high as possible, knowing half the shit isnt even in the game yet so it can be done. Make a misleading 1 minute trailer. It's not like they are using NASA super computers. The hardware they got at the office is running those demos.

After they're done making the trailer, get back to work on the core game where it wont look anything like the trailer as they got to add back all the missing or stripped out stuff which eats into processing power.

It'd be like a car company doing a trailer showing the car can go 0-60 in 5 seconds. The real car people buy does it in 7 seconds. People asked why is it two seconds slower. Turns out the video had a car that stripped out all the seats except the driver, got rid of the spare tire, and got rid of all the metal under the hood not needed for an acceleration demo. So the car is 500 lbs lighter making it faster than the final car.
And when it’s downgraded even on faster PCs than the ones available when the vertical slice was shown?

I’m thinking it’s never even realtime. Or it’s realtime but at 5fps and they make it run at slow motion to not skip a frame and speed it up into a ”realtime” video.

Either way, it’s annoying. Reminds me of old days game covers with screenshots from the wrong system.
 


Yeah, its a downgrade but nowhere near as bad as those stills in the OP make it look.

Cherry-picked stills in the worst possible lighting don't make your point, OP. They undermine it.

You should have picked better stills. That said, your point is valid. It's a clear downgrade.
 
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