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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Most people also have over 16gb of system ram on top of the gpu vram...

Not according to Steam stats they don't. People vastly overestimate how many PC gamers have high-end gaming rigs. It's not very many.

And they underestimate how much high-end GPUs and CPUs sell to markets besides gaming, such as 3D film production, video production companies, medical and science groups etc.

You sure ps5 doesn’t have RT cores?

It may, it may not. I think if it were strongly comparable in that regard though they would've focused on it more at the Road to PS5 presentation. Was the perfect time to go in-depth with it like they did the SSD and 3D audio.

The fact they didn't says a good bit on its own IMHO.

This sounds as believable to me as the 9.2 GitHub did to the Sony Super Fans.

Unlike the Sony Super Fans I promised not to harangue, harass or belittle you and I would thrilled if you're correct.

It's true $399 for XSX sounds like a stretch, personally think $449 is more realistic if it wants to come in a bit cheaper.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Also not feeling too confident PS5 will be $399, either. I can see it going $449 more easily than XSX, though.

 

[nani17]

*not if you're not into third person...

which would remove most of today's titles

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Not according to Steam stats they don't. People vastly overestimate how many PC gamers have high-end gaming rigs. It's not very many.

And they underestimate how much high-end GPUs and CPUs sell to markets besides gaming, such as 3D film production, video production companies, medical and science groups etc.

16GB is the most common RAM configuration.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

16GB is the most common RAM configuration.

Yeah but that's usually DDR3 or DDR4 though. PS5 and XSX are rocking 16 GB GDDR6, that's a whole other level in terms of performance.

I can also tell you one type of person where 16 GB won't be common for: whoever got suckered into buying that Atari VCS (supposedly) launching this year

 

[Sosokrates]

If it ever existed I am with you that it no longer does, it would muddy the waters. They have a clear product here, a clear direction, their communication and goals are an open book. Adding a second system to this doesn't make any sense.

Another reason it doesn't make any sense is they already said they will continue to support the Xbox One for one to two years, so lesser hardware will already be an option. Also they have Xbox All Access, so if you can't outright afford the console you can make payments..

They've set themselves up for a one system future.

Yes the 1X will make a great budget option until about mid 2022 and by then the xsx will be at a more mass market price.

 

[V4skunk]

Not according to Steam stats they don't. People vastly overestimate how many PC gamers have high-end gaming rigs. It's not very many.

And they underestimate how much high-end GPUs and CPUs sell to markets besides gaming, such as 3D film production, video production companies, medical and science groups etc.



It may, it may not. I think if it were strongly comparable in that regard though they would've focused on it more at the Road to PS5 presentation. Was the perfect time to go in-depth with it like they did the SSD and 3D audio.

The fact they didn't says a good bit on its own IMHO.



It's true $399 for XSX sounds like a stretch, personally think $449 is more realistic if it wants to come in a bit cheaper.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Also not feeling too confident PS5 will be $399, either. I can see it going $449 more easily than XSX, though.

Half of steam has 16gb of system RAM or more. And 45% of steam has 6gb or more vram.
Try harder.

 

[Genx3]

A lot of people like to talk as tho those extra 2tf will be used to create games that run higher settings than Ps5, but it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft used it to push DXR instead.

If a game looks similar to the Ps5 version with added DXR or has better raytracing then it's still a win for the fanboys and the extra power can be leveraged for more titles to include DXR features.

Seems logical but until we see what Microsoft are up to then we really don't know.

I think this is exactly what will happen.
XSX will simply implement a more aggressive approach to RT.
Ray Tracing does make games look quite a bit better but the games will be comparable for the most part.

 

[Fulcizombie]

It is the most impressive console since the original Xbox. No bullshit component codenames, no «tricks» and secret sauces to try and fool the consumer, no outlandish claims, just pure computing power. A 3.8 GHz Zen 2 CPU and a 12+ RDNA2 TF gpu in a console being released in 2020 ? Amazing and unbelievable before MS showed the console’s form at TGA.

 

[DoctaThompson]

A simple search of steam hardware survey would show that the majority of people with steam installed on their computer, have 16gb of ram, OR MORE. This includes people who install steam on their non gaming pc/laptop, just to have the client at their job or school computer. So yes, the majority of pc gamers have 16gb or ram or more.

Furthermore, who compares gddr5/5x/6 to system memory? I would much rather have a 32gb pool of system memory, and an 11gb pool of faster, higher bandwidth gddr6, than the entire bandwidth of a next gen console.

Comparing the two makes no sense, as pc's don't cut corners to make things work. There is a reason why a plastic box can be sold for relatively cheap. This is not me shitting on consoles, but just pointing at the obvious fact, that they operate completely different from each other. No gamer, in their right mind, is expecting better performance, than an RTX 2070 or a 3700x in next gen consoles. People who do this, get let down EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION. Who remembers how all 360 and ps3 gamers were supposed to be native 1080p? Or how xb1 and ps4 games were supposed to be 4k60fps? Now people are expecting 8k120fps?!

This is not warring. But if it's ok for people to make false claims, shouldn't I be able to prove otherwise? I've been banned from threads for correcting this type of stuff, which is crazy, but whatever.

 

[too much eslim]

The lack of SS3 transformation is saddening lol

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

How powerfull... before or after taking fucking Direct X + windows 10 in the equation? How much power does XSX lost because of those?

Anyone with a One serie knows how both are slowing down everything.

 

[ZywyPL]

How powerfull... before or after taking fucking Direct X + windows 10 in the equation? How much power does XSX lost because of those?

Anyone with a One serie knows how both are slowing down everything.

Judging how MS squeezed 4K60 in Gears 5 on that weak-ass Jaguar CPU, or how much boost AMD GPUs gain on PC thanks to DX12, I'd say it's VERY efficient. After all, that's the whole point of low-level APIs. And from what I understand from the released info and interviews, devs will be able to bypass DX12U on XBX anyway if they want to implement their custom solutions.

 

[MilkyJoe]

which would remove most of today's titles

Ana pretty much all Sony exclusives.

 

[nani17]

Ana pretty much all Sony exclusives.

And I wonder why anyone would buy a system if they didn't like third person which let's be honest is fucking rare

 

[MilkyJoe]

And I wonder why anyone would buy a system if they didn't like third person which let's be honest is fucking rare

Variety is the spice of life...

 

[Zoro7]

All that power!!!! Minecraft gonna be lit with all that ray tracing!!!

 

[Coolwhhip]

The 120 fps and 25 teraflops while ray tracing kinda has me #doubt

 

[pawel86ck]

No gamer, in their right mind, is expecting better performance, than an RTX 2070 or a 3700x in next gen consoles. People who do this, get let down EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION. Who remembers how all 360 and ps3 gamers were supposed to be native 1080p? Or how xb1 and ps4 games were supposed to be 4k60fps? Now people are expecting 8k120fps?!

This is not warring. But if it's ok for people to make false claims, shouldn't I be able to prove otherwise? I've been banned from threads for correcting this type of stuff, which is crazy, but whatever.

We allready know how fast RDNA1 GPUs are and next gen consoles will have even more efficient RDNA2. We also know XSX will be 12TF and GPU like that even assuming RDNA1 should match 2080S 11TF (at least in raster calculations), so why are comparing next gen consoles to 2070 (7.4TF) GPU?

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Judging how MS squeezed 4K60 in Gears 5 on that weak-ass Jaguar CPU, or how much boost AMD GPUs gain on PC thanks to DX12, I'd say it's VERY efficient. After all, that's the whole point of low-level APIs. And from what I understand from the released info and interviews, devs will be able to bypass DX12U on XBX anyway if they want to implement their custom solutions.

Direct X 12 is somehow a "joke" (it has been elaborated many times). There are reasons why ID and others prefer Vulcan or Glide. But there are reasons to use it, including porting games to the PC market, so i understand why they STILL go with Dirext X.
Is it thanks to Dirext X or despite it? Shure, Gears 5 looks good, really good!!! ❤
How much power is XS going to loose because if Windows? I think things are going to be better than before but not thanks to Windows, thanks to the power of Zen2. Do we know how the Direct X + windows guys teamed with the engeneering brains? I whished we hear more from them, because Phil is such a dick.

 

[ZywyPL]

How much power is XS going to loose because if Windows? I think things are going to be better than before but not thanks to Windows, thanks to the power of Zen2. Do we know how the Direct X + windows guys teamed with the engeneering brains? I whished we hear more from them, because Phil is such a dick.

What do you mean by "lose power because of Windows"? It's not a secret both consoles will have one core and ~3GB reserved for the OS, those resources will never be available for the game developers no matter how demanding/optimized the operating systems are. So it all comes down to APIs, and seeing how the devs, both 1st and 3rd party are already hitting that native 4K on X1X makes me think DX12 isn't half as bad as some people paint it to be.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Direct X 12 is somehow a "joke" (it has been elaborated many times). There are reasons why ID and others prefer Vulcan or Glide.

Would you mind sharing...?

And who's still using Glide??

 

[ZywyPL]

A simple search of steam hardware survey would show that the majority of people with steam installed on their computer, have 16gb of ram, OR MORE. This includes people who install steam on their non gaming pc/laptop, just to have the client at their job or school computer. So yes, the majority of pc gamers have 16gb or ram or more.

Furthermore, who compares gddr5/5x/6 to system memory? I would much rather have a 32gb pool of system memory, and an 11gb pool of faster, higher bandwidth gddr6, than the entire bandwidth of a next gen console.

Comparing the two makes no sense, as pc's don't cut corners to make things work. There is a reason why a plastic box can be sold for relatively cheap. This is not me shitting on consoles, but just pointing at the obvious fact, that they operate completely different from each other. No gamer, in their right mind, is expecting better performance, than an RTX 2070 or a 3700x in next gen consoles. People who do this, get let down EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION. Who remembers how all 360 and ps3 gamers were supposed to be native 1080p? Or how xb1 and ps4 games were supposed to be 4k60fps? Now people are expecting 8k120fps?!

This is not warring. But if it's ok for people to make false claims, shouldn't I be able to prove otherwise? I've been banned from threads for correcting this type of stuff, which is crazy, but whatever.

A quick Steam survey search shows that ~40% of users have 16GB, that that's not even half, let alone "majority". What's more, almost the same amount of people have 8GB. So no, majority doesn't have 16 or more GB, the majority (93%) has up to 16GB, from which 54% has 8 or less, that's actually the majority. Unless something changed and "majority" has another meaning than it had yesterday...

VRAM is more or less equally divided between 4, 6 and 8GB, all around 20%, so again the majority (~60%) has up to 8GB VRAM.

CPUs - ~70% has up to 4 cores, that's the biggest gap compared to upcoming consoles. Aside SSD of course, but I honestly don't expect the loading screens to go away at all, some people will have couple of seconds loadings, others will have minute or two.

The factor that helps the consoles a lot is the fact that resolution increase is slowing down, we had SD, HD, FHD, then 4K with mid-gen refresh models, and now the same 4K is the starting point for the upcoming systems, so all additional power will go solely into better visuals. On PC on the contrary 4K is badically non-existen, FHD is undisputed king since forever, with QHD being reserved for high-end gaming. And thanks to DLSS we are actually going backwards.

Time will tell as always, but comparing the upcoming consoles vs PC as I always do, it is the first time where the consoles aren't faaar behind average Joe's PC, not only that but actually quite ahead. It's all up to AMD to introduce competitive offer vs Intel and Nvidia, so the prices for PC parts decrease, so the average PC specs will finally move up, otherwise I cannot see all those people from Steam survey and the rest of PC crowd wanting to spend hundreds of dollars just on a single part, when they have complete package that offers 4K60 for 500 bucks or so.

 

[DoctaThompson]

A quick Steam survey search shows that ~40% of users have 16GB, that that's not even half, let alone "majority". What's more, almost the same amount of people have 8GB. So no, majority doesn't have 16 or more GB, the majority (93%) has up to 16GB, from which 54% has 8 or less, that's actually the majority. Unless something changed and "majority" has another meaning than it had yesterday...

VRAM is more or less equally divided between 4, 6 and 8GB, all around 20%, so again the majority (~60%) has up to 8GB VRAM.

CPUs - ~70% has up to 4 cores, that's the biggest gap compared to upcoming consoles. Aside SSD of course, but I honestly don't expect the loading screens to go away at all, some people will have couple of seconds loadings, others will have minute or two.

The factor that helps the consoles a lot is the fact that resolution increase is slowing down, we had SD, HD, FHD, then 4K with mid-gen refresh models, and now the same 4K is the starting point for the upcoming systems, so all additional power will go solely into better visuals. On PC on the contrary 4K is badically non-existen, FHD is undisputed king since forever, with QHD being reserved for high-end gaming. And thanks to DLSS we are actually going backwards.

Time will tell as always, but comparing the upcoming consoles vs PC as I always do, it is the first time where the consoles aren't faaar behind average Joe's PC, not only that but actually quite ahead. It's all up to AMD to introduce competitive offer vs Intel and Nvidia, so the prices for PC parts decrease, so the average PC specs will finally move up, otherwise I cannot see all those people from Steam survey and the rest of PC crowd wanting to spend hundreds of dollars just on a single part, when they have complete package that offers 4K60 for 500 bucks or so.

As stated before, even I have steam installed on my work laptop, with integrated gpu (igpu). I do not game on it. And several people do the same. So steam hardware stats have an inflated number of users. I can guarantee, the majority of users have 16gb of ram, or more in their system.

Further more, most users will be upgrading upon console release, to 1up or 10up the next gen consoles. Pc hardware never sleeps, and it shows in every console generation cycle. Each year, pc hardware goes through many new peripherals and hardware. We've had ssd's from last year, that are faster than ps5 ssd, that hasn't even released yet.

It's crazy to try and compare console ram with pc ram. As ddr4 is still much faster than the fastest ssd speeds. Non volatile ram =\= volatile ram. A pc can still transfer data faster than a console from a larger pool or ram to gpu, than a ssd to vram on consoles.

Until AMD can hold a candle to Nvidia, in the moderate to high end or even enthusiast GPU, I won't believe a bit of PR, till I see it with my own eyes. It's crazy that AMD hasn't given details on their pc gpu's that will be released this year. This is quite concerning, as they are hush mouth on this topic, and it's a matter of time before Nvidia pulls out the big boys, to further solidify it's dominance, like the past several years.

 

[Silent Viper]

XSX lead over PS5 in Power is shown in this chart

XSX looks like well balanced powerful system with tons of features, whereas PS5 got nothing which stands out except SSD speed.

Also supports DLSS with dedicated RT cores

 

[Thedtrain]

XSX lead over PS5 in Power is shown in this chart

XSX looks like well balanced powerful system with tons of features, whereas PS5 got nothing which stands out except SSD speed.

Also supports DLSS with dedicated RT cores

Did you get this chart from timdog?

 

[Ph0enixes]

RDNA 2 VRS - Playstation NO
100GB SSD adressable as VRAM - Xbox YES

Here we go again.

 

[Silent Viper]

Did you get this chart from timdog?

no why u ask? specs are available everywhere for you to check. We all knows XSX is powerful system..

Are these specs incorrect? you trying to say?

 

[Thedtrain]

RDNA 2 VRS - Playstation NO
100GB SSD adressable as VRAM - Xbox YES

Here we go again.

9.2TF effective was my favorite part

 

[Silent Viper]

9.2TF effective was my favorite part

it goes 10f max after overclocking, it will not run at 10 all the time

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

XSX lead over PS5 in Power is shown in this chart

XSX looks like well balanced powerful system with tons of features, whereas PS5 got nothing which stands out except SSD speed.

Also supports DLSS with dedicated RT cores

Wait, but how do we know that PS5 doesn't have a DLSS 2 equivilant as well? Not sure this chart is accurate....

 

[Silent Viper]

Wait, but how do we know that PS5 doesn't have a DLSS 2 equivilant as well? Not sure this chart is accurate....

coz RT is not PS5 focus.. Their focus is SSD..


This chat and XSX power lead bound to trigger Sony fans good but its fact and XSX power is real

 

[Slings and Arrows]

XSX lead over PS5 in Power is shown in this chart

XSX looks like well balanced powerful system with tons of features, whereas PS5 got nothing which stands out except SSD speed.

Also supports DLSS with dedicated RT cores

Come on, even a cursory glance at that list shows things are skewed towards the XSX. I'm not waving a flag for Sony, i'm just saying the column of 'XSX' lead, that is only filled in for part of it, really shows a bias.

No mention of memory configuration
1TB 'custom' vs 825GB 'custom'. We know the XSX 1TB drive won't be 1TB.
How can a 'no' vs a 'yes' equate to a 50% lead?

I want to see facts, not fan-fiction.

You can do better.

 

[M1chl]

Come on, even a cursory glance at that list shows things are skewed towards the XSX. I'm not waving a flag for Sony, i'm just saying the column of 'XSX' lead, that is only filled in for part of it, really shows a bias.

No mention of memory configuration
1TB 'custom' vs 825GB 'custom'. We know the XSX 1TB drive won't be 1TB.
How can a 'no' vs a 'yes' equate to a 50% lead?

I want to see facts, not fan-fiction.

You can do better.

Especially when is 100GB on system level addressable, we know what MS systems do. Have you ever check how much you have empty VRAM in Windows GUI, yeah some of it is allocated by system and not that little.

 

[SaucyJack]

Did you get this chart from timdog?

fairly sure I’ve seen that on MisterXmedia

edit: it's his pinned tweet.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Especially when is 100GB on system level addressable, we know what MS systems do. Have you ever check how much you have empty VRAM in Windows GUI, yeah some of it is allocated by system and not that little.

Every console I've bought that was Microsofts (Og xbox, 360, 360 elite, xbone, xbone x) has always had lower storage space than the HDD had advertised. IIRC the launch 360 (core?) had a 20GB HDD and only 13GB of space...

But yeah, this list is bullshit

 

[M1chl]

Every console I've bought that was Microsofts (Og xbox, 360, 360 elite, xbone, xbone x) has always had lower storage space than the HDD had advertised. IIRC the launch 360 (core?) had a 20GB HDD and only 13GB of space...

But yeah, this list is bullshit

I guess that's mainly, because console size uses GB on the box, but in os data are presented in GiB...

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I guess that's mainly, because console size uses GB on the box, but in os data are presented in GiB...

IIRC Peter Moore or some Xbox exec explained back in the day, that the HDD is 20GB but it took 7GB to load all of the data or whatevers, on to the HDD

I think it's fairly standard across the industry. Like a 32GB usb drive only has 31GB available

 

[Radical_3d]

Also supports DLSS

The nVidia technology in an AMD card?

 

[M1chl]

IIRC Peter Moore or some Xbox exec explained back in the day, that the HDD is 20GB but it took 7GB to load all of the data or whatevers, on to the HDD

I think it's fairly standard across the industry. Like a 32GB usb drive only has 31GB available

Did not know that, but obviously I expect XSX to have same amount of storage as PS5.

The nVidia technology in an AMD card?

Well nVidia DLSS 2.0 is part of DX 12 Ultimate. But don't worry, as I've learned. Control works as much as it those thanks, to being pre-trained by nVidia servers coming in the GPU drivers. So they might be massive as times goes by, or they will be some on demand additional downloads.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Did not know that, but obviously I expect XSX to have same amount of storage as PS5.



Well nVidia DLSS 2.0 is part of DX 12 Ultimate. But don't worry, as I've learned. Control works as much as it those thanks, to being pre-trained by nVidia servers coming in the GPU drivers. So they might be massive as times goes by, or they will be some on demand additional downloads.

I do. Maybe it will have a few GB's more but not massively. I would expect each drive to sit around 800GB - 900Gb. I could be wrong, but from what I've seen it would fit about right.

Don't take my word for it though, i'm sure there are PC/software peeps who know more

 

[Agnostic2020]

XSX lead over PS5 in Power is shown in this chart

XSX looks like well balanced powerful system with tons of features, whereas PS5 got nothing which stands out except SSD speed.

Also supports DLSS with dedicated RT cores

Lol mister x media tweet posted as official. What a joke

Why do some Xbox fans love creating wrong false info?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Lol mister x media tweet posted as official. What a joke

Why do some Xbox fans love creating wrong false info?

It happens on both sides, imo, and it sucks, for sure. Hard enough to discern what is credible or not as it is.

 

[Agnostic2020]

It happens on both sides, imo, and it sucks, for sure. Hard enough to discern what is credible or not as it is.

True . Shit is annoying as hell regardless of which side does it . No conversation can be had when the base is false info to begin with

 

[nikolino840]

The nVidia technology in an AMD card?

Use the equivalent, direct ml

 

[Radical_3d]

True . Shit is annoying as hell regardless of which side does it . No conversation can be had when the base is false info to begin with

This morning I've read that thanks to the SSD the lumen tech is now possible. Imagine the stretch.

Well nVidia DLSS 2.0 is part of DX 12 Ultimate. But don't worry, as I've learned. Control works as much as it those thanks, to being pre-trained by nVidia servers coming in the GPU drivers. So they might be massive as times goes by, or they will be some on demand additional downloads.

But a similar tech in AMD could mean that you can access some AMD server to upload you game's data and receive a 'guide' to the AMD's AI to follow, isn't?

Use the equivalent, direct ml

But then is not DSLL, it's something equivalent.

 

[nikolino840]

This morning I've read that thanks to the SSD the lumen tech is now possible. Imagine the stretch.

But a similar tech in AMD could mean that you can access some AMD server to upload you game's data and receive a 'guide' to the AMD's AI to follow, isn't?

But then is not DSLL, it's something equivalent.

Of course

DirectML at GDC 2019 - DirectX Developer Blog

Microsoft introduces DirectML, a low-level, DX12-style API for game developers to integrate machine learning inferencing into their engines.

devblogs.microsoft.com

 

[M1chl]

This morning I've read that thanks to the SSD the lumen tech is now possible. Imagine the stretch.

But a similar tech in AMD could mean that you can access some AMD server to upload you game's data and receive a 'guide' to the AMD's AI to follow, isn't?

But then is not DSLL, it's something equivalent.

Of course, that means it does not require some magical proprietary GPU architecture.

 

[Andodalf]

DLSS won’t exactly be in the consoles, but I’m sure both will make use of some sort of machine learning Super sampling, the generic version. XSX has support for i4 and i8 math to accelerate ml but I’m not sure how much of an advantage that really gives.

 

[Ceadeus]

Fast enough to be able to bear all the mtx, subscriptions and Assassin's Creed at 30fps.

Just kidding, it will be awesome.

 

[Agnostic2020]

This morning I've read that thanks to the SSD the lumen tech is now possible. Imagine the stretch.

But a similar tech in AMD could mean that you can access some AMD server to upload you game's data and receive a 'guide' to the AMD's AI to follow, isn't?

But then is not DSLL, it's something equivalent.

Lumen might be actually better on xsx imo as its compute unit task lol nanite might run better on ps5 as its streaming related task