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How is it that Zelda maintained its status while Final Fantasy couldnt?
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
Alebrije
Member
Yep formula, by example you can play ocarina of time and then Breath of the wild and you can get the controls easily just adjust to the new gameplay elements...instead you play FF7 and now FF16 and is very different...just add to that the lore, setup, and Zelda is more cohesive.
Also someone mentioned Nintendo has a better leadership..Miyamoto still "rules" and it seems the new generation of ejecutives has the same spirit, that is the reason not just Zelda but other main IPs like Mario or even Metroid..has the same power/impact that had decades ago,. Even Pikim a niche game has a lot of followers with just the same formula since the 1st game.
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Expectations, you can't take someone's words seriously if he had prior expectations, expectations ruins everything , even well documented reviews from respected ones ,they can't getaway from it if they had prior expectations, you saw famous journalists get roasted because of it , At least expectations lacks logical reasons.The hyperboles in this thread are among the wildest ones I've ever seen in a thread.
FF games are polarising, they sure are because they try to change the formula each time. Sometimes it works sometimes not as much as wanted.
But people just saying things like "hot garbage" speaking of any main Final Fantasy title are out of their mind.
It can be disappointing sure (FFXV vanilla urgh it was rough...) but "hot garbage" really ?
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Lethal01
Member
The hyperboles in this thread are among the wildest ones I've ever seen in a thread.
FF games are polarising, they sure are because they try to change the formula each time. Sometimes it works sometimes not as much as wanted.
But people just saying things like "hot garbage" speaking of any main Final Fantasy title are out of their mind.
It can be disappointing sure (FFXV vanilla urgh it was rough...) but "hot garbage" really ?
Yes, FFXV was really that bade, it had impressive things visually.
I mean... the new report about the preorder numbers being low only really proves this point further, meanwhile Zelda had its biggest launch ever.
At some point Square Enix's mismanagement just poisoned FF as a brand, and now its lost its prestige and prominence compared to what it used to be.
Square also needs to give it up with the PS exclusivity nonsense, no one expects them to be able to put it on Switch, but PC should be a given for these in the future.
At some point Square Enix's mismanagement just poisoned FF as a brand, and now its lost its prestige and prominence compared to what it used to be.
Square also needs to give it up with the PS exclusivity nonsense, no one expects them to be able to put it on Switch, but PC should be a given for these in the future.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Tons of garbage spin-offs running the brand name into the ground. Not to mention even the quality /change of general direction of the mainline games themselves. Zelda does not have this problem.
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
They never really beens in the sames league Zelda is a AAAA franchise and alllllllllllways has been
March Climber
Member
Everything around the Fabula Nova Crystalis arc of Final Fantasy(that spanned 2 generations of consoles), is what has poisoned the well of public opinion when it comes to the franchise. Even with FF12’s problems, the IP was still held in high regard back then. 13 trilogy’s run, then 15, ruined all of it. On a side note, 14 version 1.0 didn’t help either. That’s almost a decade of questionable quality product.
I don’t blame anyone, let alone a casual fan, for second guessing a potential FF purchase in the future after that.
I don’t blame anyone, let alone a casual fan, for second guessing a potential FF purchase in the future after that.
LimanimaPT
Member
They removed the turn based combat. That was the end for me.
Grizzled Ghost
Member
Huh? I know Wind Waker was criticized a bit on launch for it's "kiddy" aesthetic, but I hear nothing but reverence for it these days. Except perhaps for the late game backtracking.
EruditeHobo
Member
This is the answer.
They both have released some very middling entries, IMO... but the worst of FF is going be more lackluster than the worst of Zelda. I have issues with some of the Zelda titles, but nothing on the level of a FF15.
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StueyDuck
Member
A bit of revisionism history going on here. Both ff and Zelda were on the brink of death around the skyward sword and ff13 sequels phase.
Kids like minecraft and Nintendo made Nintendo minecraft. Where final fantasy is trying to find its place, at the end of the day FF games have always been about epic grand tales and have always been about cutting edge graphic technology.
It's always gonna be more difficult for FF to sweep the leg and grab the W because those things will always be harder to create and capture audiences.
I really hope FF doesn't just chase trends because it's strong suit has always been being different to its contemporaries. Even XV while being open world was vastly different to most open world games.
If I have to go to a tower in ff to see all the Land then they've lost me
Kids like minecraft and Nintendo made Nintendo minecraft. Where final fantasy is trying to find its place, at the end of the day FF games have always been about epic grand tales and have always been about cutting edge graphic technology.
It's always gonna be more difficult for FF to sweep the leg and grab the W because those things will always be harder to create and capture audiences.
I really hope FF doesn't just chase trends because it's strong suit has always been being different to its contemporaries. Even XV while being open world was vastly different to most open world games.
If I have to go to a tower in ff to see all the Land then they've lost me
Team Andromeda
Member
I just don't get the love for Zelda. The move to an open world makes it not feel or play like a Zelda game too me and I miss the old style Zelda games myself.
I like to see God Of war return back to the old series as well
I like to see God Of war return back to the old series as well
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Like it or not every long running series will go through change, no series ever stays the same as you remember them as child, if you can’t accept that then you might as well stop playing modern games all together and just start playing retro games.
Team Andromeda
Member
I don't like it and just don't play much of Nintendo games anymore. I found the open world Zelda to be dull, boring and rather empty.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
I don't like the direction that current Zelda and the current Final Fantasy are heading
Not a fan
Not a fan
There's so much talk about 15, but people have to remember 12 came out all the way back in 2006. After that, 2009/10 was 13 which is still garbage and really hurt the brand, the two sequels improved on the core formula. But the 13 brand was tainted and many people avoided it.
15 was originally supposed to be Versus 13, but not delayed so long and had so much money pumped into it, and then the original release was just meh.
In the middle of that, you had the release of the 14 MMO whose original version was just an empty wasteland. SE was able to turn it around and now has a popular and fun game.
Then you have the release of the polarized 7 Remake. So we have gone 17 years since the last "good" Final Fantasy was released, and even 12 had it's haters back at release. So is it any wonder people just aren't hyped for 16?
15 was originally supposed to be Versus 13, but not delayed so long and had so much money pumped into it, and then the original release was just meh.
In the middle of that, you had the release of the 14 MMO whose original version was just an empty wasteland. SE was able to turn it around and now has a popular and fun game.
Then you have the release of the polarized 7 Remake. So we have gone 17 years since the last "good" Final Fantasy was released, and even 12 had it's haters back at release. So is it any wonder people just aren't hyped for 16?
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Because Square Enix liquidated all of the best talent (Sakaguchi, Matsuno, Takahashi, etc) and ran the franchise into the dirt with terrible installments like XIII and XV. It's not rocket science.
Captain Toad
Banned
FFXVI hype is high.
They're pretty similar in sales and fanbases.
Zelda is around 150 million, while Final Fantasy is around 170 million.
They're pretty similar in sales and fanbases.
Zelda is around 150 million, while Final Fantasy is around 170 million.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Square Sof flew too close to the sun.
GenericUser
Member
FF7 is still better then OOT.
mykedo0909
Member
Ff15 destroyed all my trust in se and ff. From the fake trailers to the complete messy storyline, where even whole chapters were drastically changed aftee launch. Never again pre ordering until proven otherwise.
kvltus lvlzvs
Banned
Squeenix shat the bed hard with ff13, 12 was divisive, 11 was an mmo that started in the pre wow era. 15 was a catastrophic failure for the companies image, though I think the game sold well.
Buggy Loop
Member
FFXVI seems more like a regression. Cutscene galore and very small linear maps.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
FFXVI seems more like a regression. Cutscene galore and very small linear maps.
"Cutscenes galore?" I haven't seen anything egregious in terms of cutscenes.
The game is wide linear like God of War. Open world isn't better, and there are plenty of open areas.
Queue michael jordan laugh gif for salty haters
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Havent you seen any gameplay footage? its similar to DQXI not open world but big map to explore.
FFXVI seems more like a regression. Cutscene galore and very small linear maps.
A few reasons I think. Final Fantasy has had quite a few lows in the last few releases. The last great ff game I'd personally say was 9 but X was pretty good. FF12 while good doesn't quite hit the highs of X , 13 was just weird, and 15 is a trainwreck. While we have had some weaker zelda games they were all for the most part solid from what I hear.
Another issue I can see is that the game play hasn't really changed dramatically until breath of the wild for zelda games. Whereas FF dramatically changes nearly everything for every release except for some monsters ,cid, and chocobos.
With FFXVI cutscene conversation. I do agree that it seems like it has a ton of cutscenes from the trailer. Like hours upon hours upon hours of cutscenes for this game. I still don't know how small and linear the maps will be.
Another issue I can see is that the game play hasn't really changed dramatically until breath of the wild for zelda games. Whereas FF dramatically changes nearly everything for every release except for some monsters ,cid, and chocobos.
With FFXVI cutscene conversation. I do agree that it seems like it has a ton of cutscenes from the trailer. Like hours upon hours upon hours of cutscenes for this game. I still don't know how small and linear the maps will be.
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Darkmakaimura
Member
Nintendo are masters and pretty much any intellectual property they have, such a Super Mario Brothers, still kicks ass after all these years. They just really know how to make video games.
Paulistano
Member
I remember people disliking and whining about Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and cursing about Skyward Sword.
For me at least I really don't care about Breath of the Wild since it's almost a japanese arcade version of Far Cry with funny physics, but I understand that things change and Zelda wasn't selling well and Nintendo needed to change and try to another formula but I really can't enjoy open world games anymore they suck and Nintendo they lost me when they launched the Wii.
Did not enjoy FF10 to FF13 but really liked FF7R, just didn't have time yet to play FF15.
For me at least I really don't care about Breath of the Wild since it's almost a japanese arcade version of Far Cry with funny physics, but I understand that things change and Zelda wasn't selling well and Nintendo needed to change and try to another formula but I really can't enjoy open world games anymore they suck and Nintendo they lost me when they launched the Wii.
Did not enjoy FF10 to FF13 but really liked FF7R, just didn't have time yet to play FF15.
E-Cat
Member
Zelda I was open world
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I NEVER understand this complain. You see animal running around, you NPC passing by, you see giant ass dragons flying around and group of enemies camping out and at night they sleep, heck I even saw some of them hunting animals or fighting Zonar robots. How the fuck this game can be considered “empty”?
Buggy Loop
Member
Yes.
IGN's comment on the great wood "A verdant green forest, it largely consisted of leafy corridors connecting fights with feisty flora and fauna.."
Can't bother to find exact quote from gamespot either but he was also in narrow environments, connecting arena fights to arena fights.
But hey, if peoples are hyped for DMC rather than FF RPG..
11 hours of cutscenes alone, cmon, that's stupid long. With the game rumoured to be 35-40 hours, that's way too much cutscene to gameplay ratio.
God i hope it's not even close to God of war's shit map. That would be a nail in the coffin.
Gambit2483
Member
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
Because the father and visionnaire of Final Fantasy is not there anymore.
It's no coincidence the series massively declined after Sakaguchi left.
With Zelda, the main designers have been there since the first one.
They have a vision, they know what makes a Zelda game and respect its core identity.
They don't try to turn Zelda into something else entirely.
With Final Fantasy, it seems Squeenix would turn the main franchise into a third person shooter if they could.
It's no coincidence the series massively declined after Sakaguchi left.
With Zelda, the main designers have been there since the first one.
They have a vision, they know what makes a Zelda game and respect its core identity.
They don't try to turn Zelda into something else entirely.
With Final Fantasy, it seems Squeenix would turn the main franchise into a third person shooter if they could.
AmuroChan
Member
Zelda has had a constant figure shepherding the franchise for almost 30 years, much like Mario had Miyamoto. You don't find that stability with any IP very often. With that stability comes a certain level of trust, confidence and standards of quality. FF has changed hands multiple times since the departure of Sakaguchi in the early 2000s. It's gone through phases of trying to find its own identity and figuring out what it wants to be in the future. Some ideas have succeeded (ie. FF12, FF14) and others not so much (ie. FF13, FF15).
Buggy Loop
Member
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
Oh, I can agree with that!Oh they wish
The last good FF was
Lost Odyssey
![L*][*N*K](/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1696510303){kind=avatar}
L*][*N*K
Banned
Zelda is a significantly better series made by a team who breath Zelda, they reinvent the series with every console generation, the success that they are having since Breath of the Wild is new to the series it used to be an under 10 million seller for Nintendo, I am exteremly excited to see where they take it next.
E-Cat
Member
Turns out, sometimes you need a singular talent to carry a franchise. Handing it off to some losers doesn’t automatically make it good because of the name of the IP.
This is silly, Zelda got handed to Aonuma and then Fujibayashi (spelling?)
E-Cat
Member
Miyamoto still making inputs I’m sure. But maybe the Gooch was more important to FF.
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DevilHunterX0
Member
Some people don't mind playing the same over and over again.
NeverYouMind
Member
I actually think the Final Fantasy feel was better captured in The Last Story. It was filled with meaningful character interactions and dark age fantasy political intrigue. Past Final Fantasy XII the franchise became inconsistent in its offerrings and inferior to modern RPGs like Xenoblade.Oh they wish
The last good FF was
Lost Odyssey
Also, 3D Zeldas are mediocre and filled with cringe-inducing elongated character interaction cutscenes and boring puzzles. I think FromSoft has nailed exploration and combat better in their Dark Souls entries. Sadly, they were never able to create a living non-hostile town in their games. Zelda could have evolved to be closer to it, but chose to lean more on its puzzle elements and absurd character interactions. With that said, the overall game structure is relatively similar and that familiarity fulfills desires of nostalgia with enough changes to surprise fans.
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SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
We already saw what happened with Dead Rising, Silent Hill, Devil May Cry and others when they outsourced development to western devs.
Even Metal Gear without Kojima is unimaginable (hence the remakes)
Dragon Quest is still doing ok because Yuji Horii is still there.
But Sugiyama has passed away and Akira Toriyama is basically old and retired.
Once Yuji Horii is gone, I believe the franchise will probably struggle as well.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It's a final fantasy game. 11 hours probably seems light on the cutscenes, and we dont even know if that is referring to usual NPC interactions. Since when does an FF fan complain about cutscenes?
God of War has better level design than most bloated open world games that come out these days. Nothing wrong with their map.
Sounds like Final Fantasy games arent your thing. That's fine.
Oh they wish
The last good FF was
Lost Odyssey
Yuck. Even the worst FF game is better than LO. No thanks
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