• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Clickbait Cringe How about an easy mode for Elden Ring?

RedWhiteBlue

Banned
Jul 5, 2019
244
503
305
Reward is given to those who work hard. That's the philosophy of from games. It's actually a prominent philosophy in Japanese culture. Hard work, discipline and respect results in reward, self discovery and accomplishment.

In the west everyone gets a participation medal. No one strives to excel because everyone wins. Reward is expected. No sense of accomplishment gained.
I would take it further than that and suggest that some people are outright hostile towards others sense of accomplishment.

I've often felt that people who like to comment on games either professionally or just on social media do not like the idea that they can have these gaming opinions that they are so proud of but at the end of the day some spotty edgy little kid can be better at games than they are.

Folk are happy to beat others over the head with their faux intellectualism and are quick to resort to mockery when someone else has the "wrong" opinion. Tell them to "get good" though and they have a complete meltdown.

I am convinced that people have more of a problem with this made up perception of the smug, arrogant, cocky Dark Souls player who is apparently lording it over the gaming community than they do with the actual game. How many opinions on these games center around implying that people have no social life or just want to impress mommy or never go outside etc etc? It's not just one or two.

Most games already have difficulty options. Of the literally hundreds (maybe even thousands) of games released every generation there are really only a small few that offer this kind of challenge with no options.

On PS4 we had only 3 From Software games across the generation? Bloodborne, DS3 and Sekiro?

Yet, even just those THREE games out of ALL the available games is too much for some people and they just can't let it be.

"Games are art" seems to only apply to story driven games. If hipsters can sit around discussing the themes and characters forever then the game is seen as a true work of art.

As soon as the game offers a bit of challenge? Well you see consumers just want options and I just don't understand why a corporation would leave money on the table when more options for consumers would mean more money coming in.

I guess that means the next Horizon should have options to remove Burger Beast Aloy and replace her with a sexier character model that is preferable to the male gaze? It's just options after all and doesn't affect anyone who want to play as chubster Aloy! Right?
 
Last edited:

Jigsaah

Member
Jan 31, 2018
6,588
6,926
740
Because those gamers have realized the brilliant, rewarding nature of the game's difficulty. They actually have respect and understanding of why the developer designed it like that. It's frustrating for them to see other gamers essentially wanting to devalue the experience for themselves. It's the lesson that even small children get taught: “If you cheat, you'll only be cheating yourself.” It's funny how many grown adults just don't get that when it comes to this series.

The feeling of overcoming the challenge is what has resonated with so many people and positioned Souls in so many best ever lists. A player who just gives in and switches to easy mode will not find nearly as much satisfaction with the game, or form as deep an emotional connection with it. It's likely that the game would just become another forgettable hack-and-slash title on easy mode - just a safe, 'good' game, not the masterpiece many wrestled with and triumphantly defeated. I will hear many people now say: "hah, that means the game is nothing without its difficulty!" as if it's some sort of gotcha. But... yes, that just proves the point that the difficulty is an integral part of it. Every masterpiece ceases to be if you take away a critical part of the design.

This also reminds me of another thing which the haters and journalists often cry about: that the mantra of 'get gud' is demeaning. But actually looking at the words, it's backhanded encouragement. They aren't saying "gtfo of Souls", they are giving a command to stick with the game because they know it will ultimately pay off. Fans don't want you coming in demanding an easy mode, but what they do want is for you to succeed at beating the built-in difficult. Almost everyone will give advice, so the idea that the community is elitist is frankly crap. There are whole wikis devoted to the games which no one shames anyone for using. Hell, there are even community hint messages built into the game itself. This shared experience you get from everyone playing at the same level is by design, as Miyazaki keeps saying. One person will have a hard time, another person will have an easy time, so that person imparts advice like tactics and character builds, and - oh look, you now have a discussion going. Whereas you would not if the first person just switched to easy..

As for this idea of it being 'their only chance', that is such a ridiculous phrasing. You make it sound like this is some 'one chance to save the whales' student activism. As you say, people can choose to buy it or not, so i'm puzzled why someone who chooses not to buy a game would continue to fart into the wind about it when they aren't even invested in it. It's like screaming: "I WANT TO BUY YOUR GOOD GAME, BUT FIRST PLEASE CHANGE THE MAIN REASON WHY THE GAME'S GOOD". The series has been going since 2009, over something like 7 releases now. Since then, the director has repeated the same justifications for its design, ad nauseam, in dozens of interviews. If it hasn't changed already, it's not going to. And yet, every new From Software release, we get the same nagging, the same articles from the usual retards refusing to get it.. So I don't blame people for getting annoyed at this fucking dead argument, because I sure as hell am.
This may possibly be the best post ever made on NeoGaf. I'm not even exaggerating.

Certainly the best one I've ever read.
 
Last edited:

DavidGzz

Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,983
3,637
635
I hope Miyazaki never gives in to these beggars. It would be like when actors who used to make hardcore movies turned to something like Jingle all the Way. Don't let a couple extra sales change your vision, Miyazaki.
 
Last edited:

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
16,824
8,697
1,160
How about we let the developers decide how to design their game?
 
Last edited:

TagZ

Member
Jul 29, 2007
86
38
1,220
I hope Miyazaki never gives in to these beggars. It would be like when actors who used to make hardcore movies turned to something like Jingle all the Way.
Hey hey hey!... I agree with you but leave "it's Turbo time" out of this!
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DavidGzz

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
16,824
8,697
1,160
The Souls community and its gatekeeping is just the worst.
Not at all. The game itself is unfriendly and intimidating but the community is more than helpful.

If anyone has trouble going through the game, there are ways for others to help you. Like messages to reveal secrets and items or inviting other players in your world to help beat a hard boss. There are even some NPCs who do that, i myself beat a few bosses this way because i prefer the offline experience. This is an integral part of the game's design, by removing that you are asking for Dark Souls to not be Dark Souls anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KiNeMz

MajinSweet4

Member
Dec 28, 2012
560
144
700
It's odd that even after all this time people still aren't letting go of this. It's been over 10 years and Froms games continue to do better and better. Clearly, the narrative people were trying to push was never true. "If Fromsoft wants to succeed, they gotta sacrifice their vision!" I was considering making a lengthy post explaining why the idea of a simple easy mode is a bad one, but just looking through the thread, I don't see the point. I start to wonder if the people that keep making these arguments even like video games. Posts like "I don't wanna commit time to figure a game out!" or "What if someone just wants to see the story?" Your problem might have less to do with challenge and more about how you actually play games. And that's fine, it's probably a case where you simply don't like these kinds of games. Because the Souls games really are not that hard. I've known people that were not even gaming people. And they beat these games. If you're on a gaming forum like this, you probably have massively more experience with games than someone like that. You probably have several times more than the needed skill to beat Dark Souls. The games don't appeal to you. And an easy mode isn't going to change that.
 

mxbison

Member
Dec 9, 2020
796
1,049
315
It will never happen. Besides a design choice, it's also a huge part of marketing for FROM games nowadays.

Much bigger Twitch and Youtube numbers than playthrough streams usually get. People like watching their favorite streamer die 50 times on a boss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tommib

MoreJRPG

Suffers from extreme PDS
Oct 24, 2017
1,005
2,152
585
As long as they give you some degrading trophy I see no problem with an easy mode.
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
26,851
42,207
1,995
I play video games to relax, but I am always worried about syncing too much time into them and missing out on the real world. A game that encourages you to dump hundreds of hours into it to ’get gud’ is The antithesis of this.

Ok fantastic, in that case you should know what types of games suit your lifestyle and how you want to enjoy this hobby.

Which also means you should know that these games are not going to be a good fit for you.

So... Therefore you should play other games.

Season 3 Good Job GIF by NETFLIX
 

V4skunk

Member
Nov 20, 2018
3,689
4,137
515
If they did add an easy mode then so be it but it needs to be labelled as for disabled people and or children.
Actual cripples have actually platinumed Sekiro though while even I got filtered and couldn't gid gud enuf. My filter was last boss.
No point in playing Soulsborne with an easy mode and I imagine you'd finish the game in a day as well and probably less then 8 hours! Where a normal Soulsborne blind play through is over 100 hours...
Also how would multiplayer work in scrub mode? Do the scrubs get to invade and have easy mode advantage in PVP or what?
 
  • Strength
Reactions: DavidGzz

DavidGzz

Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,983
3,637
635
Didn't Lobos beat Dark Souls with an electric guitar? Come on guys, can't you git as gud as someone playing with a guitar at least?
 

tommib

Member
Dec 7, 2020
2,010
5,304
595
41
Netherlands
It's odd that even after all this time people still aren't letting go of this. It's been over 10 years and Froms games continue to do better and better. Clearly, the narrative people were trying to push was never true. "If Fromsoft wants to succeed, they gotta sacrifice their vision!" I was considering making a lengthy post explaining why the idea of a simple easy mode is a bad one, but just looking through the thread, I don't see the point. I start to wonder if the people that keep making these arguments even like video games. Posts like "I don't wanna commit time to figure a game out!" or "What if someone just wants to see the story?" Your problem might have less to do with challenge and more about how you actually play games. And that's fine, it's probably a case where you simply don't like these kinds of games. Because the Souls games really are not that hard. I've known people that were not even gaming people. And they beat these games. If you're on a gaming forum like this, you probably have massively more experience with games than someone like that. You probably have several times more than the needed skill to beat Dark Souls. The games don't appeal to you. And an easy mode isn't going
Actual cripples have actually platinumed Sekiro though while even I got filtered and couldn't gid gud enuf. My filter was last boss.
No point in playing Soulsborne with an easy mode and I imagine you'd finish the game in a day as well and probably less then 8 hours! Where a normal Soulsborne blind play through is over 100 hours...
Also how would multiplayer work in scrub mode? Do the scrubs get to invade and have easy mode advantage in PVP or what?
I imagine different servers. Like a wedding. Tables for the children and tables for the adults.
 

skneogaf

Member
Aug 31, 2017
1,624
2,230
495
England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
Actual cripples have actually platinumed Sekiro though while even I got filtered and couldn't gid gud enuf. My filter was last boss.
No point in playing Soulsborne with an easy mode and I imagine you'd finish the game in a day as well and probably less then 8 hours! Where a normal Soulsborne blind play through is over 100 hours...
Also how would multiplayer work in scrub mode? Do the scrubs get to invade and have easy mode advantage in PVP or what?

Multiplayer will have to be out plus I imagine most that buy it would not touch the easier mode.

Also disabilities are obviously different so one may be able to but then others cannot.
 

420bits

Member
Feb 18, 2014
730
533
610
Sweden
Not at all. The game itself is unfriendly and intimidating but the community is more than helpful.

If anyone has trouble going through the game, there are ways for others to help you. Like messages to reveal secrets and items or inviting other players in your world to help beat a hard boss. There are even some NPCs who do that, i myself beat a few bosses this way because i prefer the offline experience. This is an integral part of the game's design, by removing that you are asking for Dark Souls to not be Dark Souls anymore.

*souls is a punishing game for sure but I wouldn't say its unfriendly.

I mean, the tutorial you get on the very first level explains it all to you in the textmessages, closely followed by the experience of how punishing it can be when the first Demon just wrecks your face and deletes a part of your soul :D


To everyone complaining that *souls is to hard or whatever, stop trying to play it like DMC / Dragon Age or whatever you're trying to play it like, because it wont work.
Take your time, don't rush things and if you want an ez-mode, its there. You just have to grind souls for a few hours to level your char / upgrade your weapons for it to activate, or just spec magic :p
Oh, and the moment you feel like a badass and wreck some poor peasant and think you are the Souls Jesus and can EAAAAAAASILY take on that pack of mobs, that is the part where the game reminds you of what it is by destroying you.

Out of all the *Souls games, the hardest part for me was the transition from *Souls to Sekiro, I got obliterated so many times over and over again because I tried to play it in a way it wasn't.
Once you got the hang of it, *Souls is just a wonderful game on so many levels and probably the overall best experience of any game I played and I am for sure a more patient man now than before I started playing them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KiNeMz and tommib

j0hnnix

Member
Mar 15, 2014
4,277
4,750
875
Popeyes chicken
Game isn't even out and they want an easy mode... what the trailer was to difficult to watch? Jesus. Stick to Among Us. Stop forcing changes because some do not want to learn mechanics.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: tommib

hyperbertha

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,225
7,283
655
To the neo member letter posters that claim it takes nothing away from the hard difficulty - it does. Do you know how long it takes to balance a separate easy mode with different mechanics that this article claims to want till it gets to an acceptably polished level? Not to mention the money it takes away from the main game.

Why reduce the quality of the main game just to appease to players that don't enjoy this genre in the first place?
 

Banjo64

Member
Dec 8, 2020
3,656
11,725
615
I play video games to relax, but I am always worried about syncing too much time into them and missing out on the real world. A game that encourages you to dump hundreds of hours into it to ’get gud’ is The antithesis of this.

if you want to dump hundreds of hours into a Souls game so you can feel like you accomplished something, I guess that’s your choice. But don’t begrudge people who have healthier life outlooks than you who experience ‘feelings of achievement’ through something other than video games.
Sounds like you and other people should stick to relaxing games like Animal Crossing then. How is that From Software’s problem and why should they have to cater to low skilled players? Just don’t buy the game, pretty simple.

When I see someone going 50 KD in Halo I don’t start asking for 343 to give me an aimbot so I can compete.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bartski

G Boaty

Banned
Sep 29, 2019
136
188
255
32
U know. Thats a Game? It meant to be enterntaining? And there are people who really love the style and art of the games but cant play ist because they are not pros or have that time to commit so much time?
That is not even a MP game. Yeah you can invade but maybe these people dont even play online because all they get is hate for beeing so bad? Dont forget: Gaf is not the norm, nor the main market.

I don't know why you think all games are supposed to be "entertaining". Are all movies entertaining? Would you really walk away from something like 12 Years A Slave or Boy In The Striped Pyjamas and think "That was so entertaining!"

I would argue that a good game needs to be engaging, but that's not the same as entertaining. This War Of Mine is an excellent example of a game that is not "fun", but still super engaging and offers a really special, unique experience. TLOU 2 is similar. I found it to be gruelling and emotionally draining to play through, but as an experience it's incredible. We need more games that offer experiences like that, not less.

The Souls series has never been a series that's heavy on narrative, so it's not quite a direct comparison to TWoM or TLOU, but they exist in the same sphere of a game that isn't designed to be "fun". The engagement and enjoyability in a game like the Souls games comes from overcoming challenge. Yes, the lore and the art and the world design can be interesting too, but if you remove the challenge from these games you remove the main point of engagement.

Like, have you played a Souls game before? Without challenge, the combat becomes boring nonsense. This isn't Devil May Cry or God Of War where there's fun to be had in mixing abilities and pulling off combos. There are no combos, and you basically have 2 attacks. What makes the combat engaging are the micro decisions you need to make like "Do I have time to get one more hit in or do I need to back off right now" or "Do I have time to heal or is that going to get me killed" or "I hope I've read this attack pattern right because if I haven't I am 100% dead" or "should I push forward and hope another bonfire is nearby, or head back and cash in my souls to level up at the expense of losing time/progress". The difficulty is genuinely what supports the series and makes the games within it interesting.

Wanting to remove the difficulty from the Souls games is like wanting to remove the openness of Breath of the Wild. Like yeah sure you could do it, and maybe someone would enjoy it but you're removing one of the core design decisions that the rest of the game was built around.

Besides, the Souls games have sold more and more with each instalment (aside from maybe the Demons Souls remaster, which is understandable) so clearly more and more people are fine with at least attempting these games on the terms they've set.

Even if they added an easier mode, what do you propose that looks like without subtracting from the core gameplay? And then what if that easy mode is still too hard for some people, do they release a super easy mode? At what point do we draw a line and say "Ok, this section of people just aren't the target audience for this game" and why can't that line be where it currently is?

Also as a disabled gamer (I lost my left arm from just below the elbow when I was 6) it's really, really annoying constantly seeing "But think of the poor disabled people" posts as if disabled gamers don't like difficult games.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Urban

Megatron

Member
Feb 22, 2012
8,227
674
870
Sounds like you and other people should stick to relaxing games like Animal Crossing then. How is that From Software’s problem and why should they have to cater to low skilled players? Just don’t buy the game, pretty simple.

When I see someone going 50 KD in Halo I don’t start asking for 343 to give me an aimbot so I can compete.
Halo has an easy mode though. So if you want to do better in the campaign you can. If they only released Halo in Legendary it wouldn’t make the game better.

And Animal Crossing is great! I feel like that was meant as a sick burn, but it’s just a really well made game.
 
Last edited:

Bartski

Member
Jan 15, 2020
3,783
9,791
685
Katowice
Turns out, reading through interviews given by H.Miyazaki this week, the game is supposed to pose less of a challenge than Bloodborne of Sekiro, due to the number of options given to the player, including the ability to avoid combat, and the ease of summoning whenever one needs help.

To no surprise, all the expected outlets are starting to celebrate


comment section trigger warning

the simpsons eye GIF



Difficulty options do nothing except expand the potential number of people who will play the game. I don’t give a fuck if I’m cHeAtInG mYsElF out of some arbitrary experience. I just want to get through the game without wasting a lot of my precious time. And it’s the developer’s right to not include difficulty options if they feel like it. Nothing wrong with that. I’m just sad I probably won’t play this, just like I was sad I skipped Sekiro, as cool as that game looks. I got other things - and other games - to fill my time with than bashing my head against the wall trying to git gud, because I fully admit I’m not good at FS-style games :/
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Con-Z-epT

edharia

Neo Member
Mar 24, 2020
4
2
210
The point of their games is mostly difficulty. If you take difficulty out of them, they wouldn't be fun anymore.
 

bender

Candy Corn Aficionado
Apr 12, 2010
12,382
22,098
1,480
I love FROM Software titles. Sekiro melted my face because I'm bad at parrying so I went and played something else instead of bemoaning the difficulty.
 

Spukc

Member
Jan 24, 2015
19,272
23,477
970
Can’t wait for the melt down of this so called easy mode 😂

PC trainers are a thing too.
Nothing better then having unlimited health and triggering the shit out of edgelords that cry when daddy souls is not played the way it was meant 🤣🙏🤣

let me decide what is fun or not ok?

it’s almost if a lot of people never used cheats in the past from magazines. and are all from generation 5$ horse dlc.
 
Last edited:

Lux R7

Member
Sep 4, 2014
3,145
937
785
Turns out, reading through interviews given by H.Miyazaki this week, the game is supposed to pose less of a challenge than Bloodborne of Sekiro, due to the number of options given to the player, including the ability to avoid combat, and the ease of summoning whenever one needs help.

To no surprise, all the expected outlets are starting to celebrate


comment section trigger warning

the simpsons eye GIF

na, he said it's about as difficult as dark souls 3.
i'm sure the challenge will be there, that's how he creates his games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bartski

Con-Z-epT

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2019
2,909
6,554
565
Turns out, reading through interviews given by H.Miyazaki this week, the game is supposed to pose less of a challenge than Bloodborne of Sekiro, due to the number of options given to the player, including the ability to avoid combat, and the ease of summoning whenever one needs help.
With all the new gameplay possibilities more people will find a way to overcome the challenges ahead of them but i'm convinced that Elden Ring will still be a difficult game. Summoning is still optional here and this alone made a huge difference in previous FS games.
There was always the option to make it more berable but many just like to play the games as itended.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bartski

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
20,573
31,053
670
You can summon ghost and other people, that's your easy mode OP.

No need to waste the devs time to balance an easy mode that they can use to polish the game or add content.

From the news the game sound already easier than any other from game anyway.
 
Last edited: