• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

News Hermen Hulst - "We value PC gamers, and will continue to look at the right times to launch EACH game [on PC]."

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Console gamers dont realize there are no generations on PC, just games. And for all the shit that gets flung at PC gamers for being high and mighty, we certainly are not snobs like console gamers when it comes to older games, and Indie games, etc.
Problem I have with PC gamers attitudes in general, not pointing at anyone in particular.... is that they spend a lot of the rig and then try to spend nothing on the games.
The developers need to be remunerated for their effort and time and the quality of product.

Also PC is an almost unlimited combination of parts combinations.... the console model distributes an optimized setup with the most advanced tech per dollar it can, thus making it more economical for developers to spend time on new techniques and graphics technology for their games. High end cinematics and motion capture.

Also nobody addressed the ever increasing levels of homogeneity in the industry due to companies no longer doing proper exclusives.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
Problem I have with PC gamers attitudes in general, not pointing at anyone in particular.... is that they spend a lot of the rig and then try to spend nothing on the games.
The developers need to be remunerated for their effort and time and the quality of product.

Also PC is an almost unlimited combination of parts combinations.... the console model distributes an optimized setup with the most advanced tech per dollar it can, thus making it more economical for developers to spend time on new techniques and graphics technology for their games. High end cinematics and motion capture.

Also nobody addressed the ever increasing levels of homogeneity in the industry due to companies no longer doing proper exclusives.
Alot of PC gamers do spend a lot on their rigs, you are right. In fact a lot of PC gamers care just as much about their rigs as they do the games themselves, with whole benchmarking cultues on the scene.
And PC gamers spend more than console gamers on games. You forget there are literally thousands of games on PC, tens of thousands. PC gamers are not sat twiggling their thumbs waiting for the next game to release. Thats why game sales on PC tend to start slower than console, but are much more consistent over the coming months, compared to games falling off a cliff after 2 weeks on console.
 

ACESHIGH

Member
May 16, 2020
1,071
1,867
395
Problem I have with PC gamers attitudes in general, not pointing at anyone in particular.... is that they spend a lot of the rig and then try to spend nothing on the games.
The developers need to be remunerated for their effort and time and the quality of product.

Also PC is an almost unlimited combination of parts combinations.... the console model distributes an optimized setup with the most advanced tech per dollar it can, thus making it more economical for developers to spend time on new techniques and graphics technology for their games. High end cinematics and motion capture.

Also nobody addressed the ever increasing levels of homogeneity in the industry due to companies no longer doing proper exclusives.

C'mon mate... With your reasoning I am sure you are also against console gamers trading their used physical games right? All this crusade console gamers have for the physical format its just because they want to be cheap and trade their used games. At the end of the day devs don't get any money when people buy/sell used games. I'd rather buy a game on a Steam sale.

I agree that devs should be remunerated based on the quality of their product. And in that case PC gamers have been remunerating certain studios a LOT more than they deserve: Buying shit tier ports like Nier Automata/Replicant - Horizon Zero Dawn, your average Ubisoft game and many many others.

Console gamers got a relatively bugged game in Cyberpunk 2077 and whined like crazy until the game was removed from PSN. What about the benefits of the unified console model then? Or the willingness of console gamers to remunerate devs for their effort?

About exclusives... most Sony AAA exclusives from last gen are following the Ubisoft/Batman Arkham template. We are not in the PS1/PS2 days anymore.
 

Faithless83

Member
Mar 9, 2020
1,555
3,940
480
Alot of PC gamers do spend a lot on their rigs, you are right. In fact a lot of PC gamers care just as much about their rigs as they do the games themselves, with whole benchmarking cultues on the scene.
And PC gamers spend more than console gamers on games. You forget there are literally thousands of games on PC, tens of thousands. PC gamers are not sat twiggling their thumbs waiting for the next game to release. Thats why game sales on PC tend to start slower than console, but are much more consistent over the coming months, compared to games falling off a cliff after 2 weeks on console.
No they don't. They wait for sales (and I'm not even counting pirates), your logic applies to physical media which represents a fraction of total game sales on consoles today.
Console gamers have backlogs too, you know?

PC gaming is an afterthought, a way to squeeze more money out of software. This is what Sony is doing.
On consoles you don't have to invest on anti piracy software and go heavy on anti-cheat measures, to ensure the multiplayer portion of the game remains fair.
Also it's a lot easier to target one platform instead of PC variants, driver bugs and so on.

It's a close and mostly cheaters free environment (we know the controller mods/keyboard+mouse players).

Be glad console gaming is expensive to produce, otherwise it would be CRPGs, RTS, FPS and MOBA galore for you and that's it.
 
Last edited:

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
Jan 14, 2018
2,901
12,157
905
Because some people bought their PS5's under the pretense that there would be actual exclusives, unique experiences synonymous withPlayStation and in keeping with its history and legacy.

The industry is becoming very homogeneous and after losing all the Zenimax games and exclusivity on Yakuza, Kingdom Hearts and several other series, this is the wrong move. They are making PlayStation into Xbox-lite, almost every move Jim Ryan and Hermen make is a copy of what Xbox has done.... there is no vision.

Resources are being put towards PC ports, when their own new platform, PS5 doesn't even have native versions of those games... Death Stranding, Horizon, Detroit and Days Gone.

For all the price hikes, games going to PC, cross-gen games and laundry list of other stuff.... we have no more studios than before. Xbox got Zenimax and they are not paying more for basic versions of games!
Where is our Zenimax deal if we have to put up with all this shit?

Where is the SSD expansion?

Where are the firmware updates to deal with the many crashing issues games have on PS5? Where are the UI updates to deal with how lonely it feels on it?

Jim and Hermen are focused on PC, mobile and cloud to the detriment of PS5 and console gaming. They are both disgraces to everything PlayStation means to gamers and fans.

 

justiceiro

Member
Feb 27, 2015
280
239
440
I mean, if they can't produce enough consoles to keep up with demand, they might as well just release on other platforms so their audience is not limited.
 

Excess

Member
Dec 8, 2020
669
1,112
355
Kek'd pretty hard.

That kind of pervasive attitude is similar to that of the Apple fanboys. Are there benefits to a closed ecosystem? Yes, definitely. But for those of us who want more, who want limitless potential, customization and options, forgoing the "vanilla" experience is well worth it.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: ACESHIGH

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Alot of PC gamers do spend a lot on their rigs, you are right. In fact a lot of PC gamers care just as much about their rigs as they do the games themselves, with whole benchmarking cultues on the scene.
And PC gamers spend more than console gamers on games. You forget there are literally thousands of games on PC, tens of thousands. PC gamers are not sat twiggling their thumbs waiting for the next game to release. Thats why game sales on PC tend to start slower than console, but are much more consistent over the coming months, compared to games falling off a cliff after 2 weeks on console.
Proof that PC gamers spend more on games than console?

Doubt there is any cause PlayStation alone obliterates Steam and EGS in revenue. Obliterates.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
Proof that PC gamers spend more on games than console?

Doubt there is any cause PlayStation alone obliterates Steam and EGS in revenue. Obliterates.
I take it you are using the revenue figures from before, which also include Playstation hardware, not just games. And we dont have revenue for Steam, apart from 2016 i think it was, where revenue was 4.7bil i think, and thats just games, and Steam has grown numerous times since then in growth.
Plus there are 7 or 8 launchers on PC.
We will never get accurate numbers, but i'm pretty sure PC matches and exceeds console game sales. The few times we have got hard numbers, like Witcher 3, PC came out tops.

EDIT. Also taking into account there are many, many times more gaames available on PC, pretty much means that PC gamers spend more on games. If you are talking individual games, then its probably sometimes PC, sometimes console.

You only have to look at the top 100 most played games on Steam alone, and see 5000 gamers playing the 100th most played game. I doubt on console you would even have 100 different games being played at any one time.
 
Last edited:

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
C'mon mate... With your reasoning I am sure you are also against console gamers trading their used physical games right? All this crusade console gamers have for the physical format its just because they want to be cheap and trade their used games. At the end of the day devs don't get any money when people buy/sell used games. I'd rather buy a game on a Steam sale.

I agree that devs should be remunerated based on the quality of their product. And in that case PC gamers have been remunerating certain studios a LOT more than they deserve: Buying shit tier ports like Nier Automata/Replicant - Horizon Zero Dawn, your average Ubisoft game and many many others.

Console gamers got a relatively bugged game in Cyberpunk 2077 and whined like crazy until the game was removed from PSN. What about the benefits of the unified console model then? Or the willingness of console gamers to remunerate devs for their effort?

About exclusives... most Sony AAA exclusives from last gen are following the Ubisoft/Batman Arkham template. We are not in the PS1/PS2 days anymore.

I explained that consoles make most of the latest tech ubiquitous so developers can make games tageting higher specs with less risk of a game failing and a wider potential audience.

The console model allows the platform owner to reinvest in games as showpieces and other tech and infrastructure / R&D to make the platform better.

No, PlayStation exclusives do not follow the Ubisoft model, that is highly ignorant as a statement and shows that you have not even scratched the surface of PlayStation exclusives..... Demons Souls, Returnal, Sackboy andTLOU2 just released lately and NONE of those use anything Ubisoft like in their game.

Ghost of Tsushima is the only game lately that has some of the open-world tropes but that puts Ubisoft games to shame with its incredible combat, mystic quest, duels and side-charachters as well as the great multiplayer with a raid.

GOW, Gran Turismo, Gravity Rush, Ratchet and Clank, Astrobot, Dream, Concrete Genie, Uncharted 4 / Lost Legacy...... I mean hardly any of PlayStations first party games fit into the description you just gave them.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
I take it you are using the revenue figures from before, which also include Playstation hardware, not just games. And we dont have revenue for Steam, apart from 2016 i think it was, where revenue was 4.7bil i think, and thats just games, and Steam has grown numerous times since then in growth.
Plus there are 7 or 8 launchers on PC.
We will never get accurate numbers, but i'm pretty sure PC matches and exceeds console game sales. The few times we have got hard numbers, like Witcher 3, PC came out tops.

EDIT. Also taking into account there are many, many times more gaames available on PC, pretty much means that PC gamers spend more on games. If you are talking individual games, then its probably sometimes PC, sometimes console.

You only have to look at the top 100 most played games on Steam alone, and see 5000 gamers playing the 100th most played game. I doubt on console you would even have 100 different games being played at any one time.

A very long way of saying you don't have the figures and cannot prove the point you previously asserted.

Most of the most popular PC games are free to play too.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
A very long way of saying you don't have the figures and cannot prove the point you previously asserted.

Most of the most popular PC games are free to play too.
Well i cant prove a point without factual figures, no one can. But taking into account there are tens of thousands of games available to buy on PC (literally), and the fact there are hundreds of games with 1+k users at any one time, well its par for the course that PC gamers spend more on games. PC gamers are not living release to release. There are no generations on PC, so all games released over the decades are there to buy.

I think you were talking about individual game sales right?, not overall. And again we dont get sales figures for PC games, but when we have, like Witcher 3, PC sold the most.
 
Last edited:

MikeM

Member
May 21, 2021
271
323
230
This actually bodes will for Sony's API. Building games with PC in mind will hopefully mean that patches for higher frame rates won't be the crap show they are now (i.e. take several months). I think this is a win for everyone, so long as they release on PS5 first and provide some sort of timed exclusivity to the console prior to porting to PC.
 

Flutta

My tears. Exclusive to gamepass. Forever.
Dec 6, 2020
443
845
380
Because some people bought their PS5's under the pretense that there would be actual exclusives, unique experiences synonymous withPlayStation and in keeping with its history and legacy.

The industry is becoming very homogeneous and after losing all the Zenimax games and exclusivity on Yakuza, Kingdom Hearts and several other series, this is the wrong move. They are making PlayStation into Xbox-lite, almost every move Jim Ryan and Hermen make is a copy of what Xbox has done.... there is no vision.

Resources are being put towards PC ports, when their own new platform, PS5 doesn't even have native versions of those games... Death Stranding, Horizon, Detroit and Days Gone.

For all the price hikes, games going to PC, cross-gen games and laundry list of other stuff.... we have no more studios than before. Xbox got Zenimax and they are not paying more for basic versions of games!
Where is our Zenimax deal if we have to put up with all this shit?

Where is the SSD expansion?

Where are the firmware updates to deal with the many crashing issues games have on PS5? Where are the UI updates to deal with how lonely it feels on it?

Jim and Hermen are focused on PC, mobile and cloud to the detriment of PS5 and console gaming. They are both disgraces to everything PlayStation means to gamers and fans.
Sony is a business first and formost. Keep that in mind always. They’re not your friend. They go where the money is and PC seems to generate enough money for them that’s worth all the trouble that comes with it.
Same goes for MS and Nintendo THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OR WHAT WE THINK 🤣

The sooner people realize that the better (less broken heart post i’ll have to go through) its embarrassing tbh.

Jim and Hermen’s job is to generate as much profit as they can, thats their main job the rest is just for show. (looking at you Phil)

The best way to show any business that your not satisfied with what they have to offer is to vote with your wallet. Its the only langued they understand.

PS: this not a dig at you just a reminder to us gamers. Also the gen has just started lets enjoy gaming before WW3 or something kills us all. 🤣
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Well i cant prove a point without factual figures, no one can. But taking into account there are tens of thousands of games available to buy on PC (literally), and the fact there are hundreds of games with 1+k users at any one time, well its par for the course that PC gamers spend more on games. PC gamers are not living release to release. There are no generations on PC, so all games released over the decades are there to buy.

I think you were talking about individual game sales right?, not overall. And again we dont get sales figures for PC games, but when we have, like Witcher 3, PC sold the most.

If PC has so many games, surely they wouldn't need PS exclusives at all.

Either way, the argument about which sells more is pointless until we have comparable data... Only about 3 billion of Sony's 25 billion is from hardware. I'll just say 4 billion for the sake of it....

So, if Steam and Epic and GWG and GOG add up to more than 21 billion, let me know.

Besides, it is exactly that reason that Sony should be keeping their games exclusive.... to make gaming competitive. They should have bought Square or Capcom to make PC gamers buy a PlayStation if they wanted to play those games.
The industry grows if people buy more hardware, not less.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Sony is a business first and formost. Keep that in mind always. They’re not your friend. They go where the money is and PC seems to generate enough money for them that’s worth all the trouble that comes with it.
Same goes for MS and Nintendo THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OR WHAT WE THINK 🤣

The sooner people realize that the better (less broken heart post i’ll have to go through) its embarrassing tbh.

Jim and Hermen’s job is to generate as much profit as they can, thats their main job the rest is just for show. (looking at you Phil)

The best way to show any business that your not satisfied with what they have to offer is to vote with your wallet. Its the only langued they understand.

PS: this not a dig at you just a reminder to us gamers. Also the gen has just started lets enjoy gaming before WW3 or something kills us all. 🤣
Yes, and selling more hardware grows the industry, makes people spend on various systems and buy more games.

I know, I have a Switch that I buy many games for too.....

How does a person investing in less hardware result in more spending? I mean...you people are really really not very smart.
 
Last edited:

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
Sony is a business first and formost. Keep that in mind always. They’re not your friend. They go where the money is and PC seems to generate enough money for them that’s worth all the trouble that comes with it.
Same goes for MS and Nintendo THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OR WHAT WE THINK 🤣

The sooner people realize that the better (less broken heart post i’ll have to go through) its embarrassing tbh.

Jim and Hermen’s job is to generate as much profit as they can, thats their main job the rest is just for show. (looking at you Phil)

The best way to show any business that your not satisfied with what they have to offer is to vote with your wallet. Its the only langued they understand.

PS: this not a dig at you just a reminder to us gamers. Also the gen has just started lets enjoy gaming before WW3 or something kills us all. 🤣
I mean Sony showed it themselves from those leaked screens from that internal conference thing with the whole 'Make our fans into fanatics' slides, and there are plenty on this forum showing that to be true lol.
Stuff like that would put me off, but some are too entrenched in this shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZywyPL

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,421
805
Also PC is an almost unlimited combination of parts combinations.... the console model distributes an optimized setup with the most advanced tech per dollar it can, thus making it more economical for developers to spend time on new techniques and graphics technology for their games. High end cinematics and motion capture.
Developers don't spend time on new techniques and graphics tech on consoles. They do this on PCs with an agnostic graphics engine (i.e. it can be compiled to any platform). This myth is still alive and well on these forums for some reason despite evidence to the contrary right in front of them. I'm not going to do R&D on RT with a next-gen console. I need to first read the papers, and then make it work on PC. Then I will go back and port to consoles and then refine my approach and then iterate on it again.. consoles are not used for innovations in graphics tech.
 
Last edited:

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
Yes, and selling more hardware grows the industry, makes people spend on various systems and buy more games.

I know, I have a Switch that I buy many games for too.....

How does a person investing in less hardware result in more spending? I mean...you people are really really not very smart.
Because Sony and Microsoft are not making money on hardware, in fact at the moment they are making a loss. And even when we get to the point that they start making money on hardware, its probably only going to be a small amount. A couple of game sales will probably cover that and then some.
Games and services are where the money is.
 
Last edited:

8BiTw0LF

Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,088
2,768
765
The most popular games are free2play regardless of platform.
Epic Apple documents show PS4, not iPhone, is Fortnite’s cash cow - The Verge

"Court documents reveal that PlayStation 4 generated 46.8 percent of Fortnite’s total revenues from March 2018 through July 2020, while Xbox One, the second-highest platform, generated 27.5 percent. iOS ranked fifth, with just 7 percent of total revenue. The remaining 18.7 percent would have been split between Android, Nintendo Switch, and PCs."

Confused Jimmy Fallon GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
If PC has so many games, surely they wouldn't need PS exclusives at all.

Either way, the argument about which sells more is pointless until we have comparable data... Only about 3 billion of Sony's 25 billion is from hardware. I'll just say 4 billion for the sake of it....

So, if Steam and Epic and GWG and GOG add up to more than 21 billion, let me know.

Besides, it is exactly that reason that Sony should be keeping their games exclusive.... to make gaming competitive. They should have bought Square or Capcom to make PC gamers buy a PlayStation if they wanted to play those games.
The industry grows if people buy more hardware, not less.
Because Sony make some great AAA games. You can never have too many games.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Developers don't spend time on new techniques and graphics tech on consoles. They do this on PCs with an agnostic graphics engine (i.e. it can be compiled to any platform). This myth is still alive and well on these forums for some reason despite evidence to the contrary right in front of them. I'm not going to do R&D on RT with a next-gen console. I need to first read the papers, and then make it work on PC. Then I will go back and port to consoles and then refine my approach and then iterate on it again.. consoles are not used for innovations in graphics tech.

It makes no economic sense to make a game with the latest techniques etc if there are only 1 million people with computers that can run it... my point is that console allows there to be a much bigger potential audience at the required level.

Nothing to do with the process of making the game.
 
Last edited:

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Because Sony and Microsoft are not making money on hardware, in fact at the moment they are making a loss. And even when we get to the point that they start making money on hardware, its probably only going to be a small amount. A couple of game sales will probably cover that and then some.
Games and services are where the money is.

Without the consoles the rest cannot happen, so it's a mute point.

Without the hardware, people will spend their money on vbucks on a tablet or phone or on PC..

The hardware is what made PlayStation as big as it is today. PS5 is profitable in the next couple months anyway as hardware.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
It makes no economic sense to make a game with the latest techniques etc if there are only 1 million people with computers that can run it... my point is that console allows there to be a much bigger potential audience at the required level.

Nothing to do with the process of making the game.
There are a lot more than 1mil PC users with hardware as good or better than PS5/XSX. And the beauty of PC is you can turn down stuff like resolution and settings if need be. Just turning down resolution alone opens up 'next gen' games to tens of millions of extra PC gamers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bryank75

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,421
805
It makes no economic sense to make a game with the latest techniques etc if there are only 1 million people with computers that can run it...
Sure it does. The PC is the testing machine with the most HP to play around with implementation. If there were 10 people who owned a PC, I'd still do my R&D on a PC over a console. The console can't use our main 3d packages for content like Maya, 3DS Max, Blender, etc.. This is not about avoiding the PC because the company won't have as many customers buying the game. It's about have a proper solution from a problem that's presented on paper.

my point is that console allows there to be a much bigger potential audience at the required level.
Consoles will always have a bigger audience, but this has nothing to do with making the consoles the machine to do R&D on.

This isn't an opinion we are talking about Bryan. This is what actually happens. I'm trying to get this myth destroyed on these forums because it's objectively wrong. Just look at UE5 demo as an example that what I'm telling you is fact and not opinion.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
There are a lot more than 1mil PC users with hardware as good or better than PS5/XSX. And the beauty of PC is you can turn down stuff like resolution and settings if need be. Just turning down resolution alone opens up 'next gen' games to tens of millions of extra PC gamers.
I was just giving an example, no need to take the number so literally.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Stuart360

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
Without the consoles the rest cannot happen, so it's a mute point.

Without the hardware, people will spend their money on vbucks on a tablet or phone or on PC..

The hardware is what made PlayStation as big as it is today. PS5 is profitable in the next couple months anyway as hardware.
Your Sony loyalty is fine lol, but times are changing, and you have to move with the times.
Raw hardware sales are not as important as they used to be years ago. And even back then, consoles were often sold at a loss because the real money was in game sales and licenses.
 

8BiTw0LF

Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,088
2,768
765
Sony will lose money (as a hardware company) selling their software (day 1) on other platforms than their own.

That's why you can't buy OS X for a PC.

Sony should release every 1st party game on PC - but only when sales are way down on PlayStation. The developing time for porting to PC, sholud also not exceed the revenue - so if pirates wants to steal, it will only result in shittier ports.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Sure it does. The PC is the testing machine with the most HP to play around with implementation. If there were 10 people who owned a PC, I'd still do my R&D on a PC over a console. The console can't use our main 3d packages for content like Maya, 3DS Max, Blender, etc.. This is not about avoiding the PC because the company won't have as many customers buying the game. It's about have a proper solution from a problem that's presented on paper.


Consoles will always have a bigger audience, but this has nothing to do with making the consoles the machine to do R&D on.

This isn't an opinion we are talking about Bryan. This is what actually happens. I'm trying to get this myth destroyed on these forums because it's objectively wrong. Just look at UE5 demo as an example that what I'm telling you is fact and not opinion.

You are fundamentally not understanding what I am saying....

I am talking from a financial perspective.... it makes no sense to make a game if you cannot sell it to enough people and consoles help expand the audience to a place that can sustain more investment in the development of each game.
Of course the games are made on PC.... nothing to do with that.
 

Flutta

My tears. Exclusive to gamepass. Forever.
Dec 6, 2020
443
845
380
Yes, and selling more hardware grows the industry, makes people spend on various systems and buy more games.

I know, I have a Switch that I buy many games for too.....

How does a person investing in less hardware result in more spending? I mean...you people are really really not very smart.

Well i tried 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: Bryank75

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
I was just giving an example, no need to take the number so literally.
I know you were, but just reading posts on here over the last few months, i honestly get the feeling many console games honestly think there are a tiny percentage of PC gamers with high end PC's.
You have to remember when you look at something like Steam stats, its showing hardware from EVERYONE who signed onto Steam that month, so soccer moms on their 8yo laptops, and garandads on their 10yo desktops etc. Those 1%, 2%, 3% steam stat numbers you see for high end gpu's is literally multiple millions of gamers for each.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bryank75

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Your Sony loyalty is fine lol, but times are changing, and you have to move with the times.
Raw hardware sales are not as important as they used to be years ago. And even back then, consoles were often sold at a loss because the real money was in game sales and licenses.

Seems to be more important than ever in my opinion.... every cloud gaming platform has failed badly.

Console demand is sky high and game sales through hardware has never been higher. Consoles will continue to develop much faster than server farms can, it makes sense to spread hardware costs among the customers, with some sting taken out of it by the platform holder, using economies of scale and their business model.

It is the most economically viable option available. Also the most dependable.
 

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
16,231
8,949
1,275
Epic Apple documents show PS4, not iPhone, is Fortnite’s cash cow - The Verge

"Court documents reveal that PlayStation 4 generated 46.8 percent of Fortnite’s total revenues from March 2018 through July 2020, while Xbox One, the second-highest platform, generated 27.5 percent. iOS ranked fifth, with just 7 percent of total revenue. The remaining 18.7 percent would have been split between Android, Nintendo Switch, and PCs."

Confused Jimmy Fallon GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
I'm not sure you realized you proved my point.

 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
Seems to be more important than ever in my opinion.... every cloud gaming platform has failed badly.

Console demand is sky high and game sales through hardware has never been higher. Consoles will continue to develop much faster than server farms can, it makes sense to spread hardware costs among the customers, with some sting taken out of it by the platform holder, using economies of scale and their business model.

It is the most economically viable option available. Also the most dependable.
Yeah i agree with most of that, except cloud gaming. I hate it, but its inevitable, its just how long.
And i'm not saying console sales are not in demand, and not important, i didnt mean that if it came accross like that. I mean if Sony and Microsoft lose a few million console sales over the course of a generation, but end up selling tens of millions of games to PC gamers, they would of made way more money.
 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2013
3,563
6,892
1,095
US
There are a lot more than 1mil PC users with hardware as good or better than PS5/XSX. And the beauty of PC is you can turn down stuff like resolution and settings if need be. Just turning down resolution alone opens up 'next gen' games to tens of millions of extra PC gamers.
There were 15 million RTX GPUs(RTX 2060+) sold by March 2020, 6 months before any next-gen console released. The console mindset of being trailblazers of tech is hilarious. Same with the UE5 debacle. PC gamers are literally building games on UE5 right now while "they" watch videos of tech demos on PS5 and talk like they're an authority. It's beyond bizarre.
 
Last edited:

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
There were 15 million RTX GPUs(RTX 2060+) sold by March 2020, 6 months before any next-gen console released. The console mindset of being trailblazers of tech is hilarious. Same with the UE5 debacle. PC gamers are literally build games on UE5 right now while they watch videos of demos PS5 and talk like they're an authority. It's beyond bizarre.
Because they look at Steam Stats without realizing what they are looking at. Those 3% on this gpu, 4% on that gpu etc, is literally tens of millions of gamers.
 
Last edited:

Neofire

Member
Mar 11, 2015
720
635
635
There were 15 million RTX GPUs(RTX 2060+) sold by March 2020, 6 months before any next-gen console released. The console mindset of being trailblazers of tech is hilarious. Same with the UE5 debacle. PC gamers are literally build games on UE5 right now while they watch videos of demos PS5 and talk like they're an authority. It's beyond bizarre.
And 75% of those GPUs are for crypto mining 😂🤣
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Yeah i agree with most of that, except cloud gaming. I hate it, but its inevitable, its just how long.
And i'm not saying console sales are not in demand, and not important, i didnt mean that if it came accross like that. I mean if Sony and Microsoft lose a few million console sales over the course of a generation, but end up selling tens of millions of games to PC gamers, they would of made way more money.

I don't think cloud gamign will ever be a big thing. Never on the level of console gaming, which is growing at twice the rate of PC gaming.
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,421
805
You are fundamentally not understanding what I am saying....

I am talking from a financial perspective.... it makes no sense to make a game if you cannot sell it to enough people and consoles help expand the audience to a place that can sustain more investment in the development of each game.
Of course the games are made on PC.... nothing to do with that.
Bryan, I was only addressing that you said:

"the console model distributes an optimized setup with the most advanced tech per dollar it can, thus making it more economical for developers to spend time on new techniques and graphics technology for their games."

Nowhere in the underlined sentence does it talk about finances other than tech/dollar. If I misunderstood this statement then I apologize. It comes off as the console is using an optimized setup so devs can spend more time on new graphics tech ON THE CONSOLES themselves.
 
Last edited:

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
16,231
8,949
1,275
I do, but I also proved Stuart wrong in PC gamers are bigger spenders. If only they could pirate microtransactions, ey :messenger_winking:
I'd be more interested in lifetime sales on any single platform or even the entirety of a specific consoles of Xbox/PS vs. PC for specific games. I don't do much data analysis for comparison sake, but I'd think that lifetime sales are substantially bigger for games like Minecraft/Skyrim/Witcher/GTA on PC. Though I'd bet GTA probably has more sales combined across Playstation than PC, but even then I can play the same copy of any of those games on PC without having to rebuy them for a new system in the same family on console, granted MSFT has made amazing strides in giving gamers more value with BC.

I have more PC games than I probably do for all my consoles combined. Granted many of those are bought on sales and even then I'll buy games that I have at best a passing interest at most if a game is on sale to give it a chance. I couldn't tell you how many times I bought Fallout:New Vegas or Witcher 1/2 back when Steam let you keep your extra games in an inventory just so I could gift them to people. Hell, I'm pretty sure I STILL have extra copies of Fallout: New Vegas in my inventory left over and it's been years since Steam stopped the inventory system.

Bought at a few euro on a sale... how many are day 1?

How many spend over 60 euro on a game?

You have a point, I've never spent a single euro on a PC game. Or any game for that matter. :messenger_winking_tongue:

I think you are discrediting the power of a decent sale. Many games I own that I just plain don't like but I took a chance on because it was a decent sale. That's money they would have NEVER seen to begin with had it never been on a sale.
 
Last edited:

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,034
26,448
995
Ireland
Bryan, I was only addressing that you said:

"the console model distributes an optimized setup with the most advanced tech per dollar it can, thus making it more economical for developers to spend time on new techniques and graphics technology for their games."

Nowhere in the underlined sentence does it talk about finances other than tech/dollar. If I misunderstood this statement then I apologize. It comes off as the console is using an optimized setup so devs can spend more time on new graphics tech ON THE CONSOLES themselves.

I probably didn't articulate it well enough.

I mean, they package the best tech they can for the price into the console and get it to as many people as possible, so the audience for game utilizing ray-tracing, 8k textures, SSD and dother innovations is expanded by maybe 15-20 million per annum. That makes the investment of making a game less risky.... as the potential audience for this 'new gen game' is bigger than it would have been with only PC's capable of running it.

That's all I was saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VFXVeteran

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
26,245
39,336
1,845
Bought at a few euro on a sale... how many are day 1?

How many spend over 60 euro on a game?




When the games are there, more than on console.

Sony would make serious bank if they put their releases on PC day one but they make hardware (that they actually want to sell) so to reduce that conflict of interest as much as possible there is a significant delay between the playstation release and PC release of games.
 
Last edited: