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Opinion Clickbait Game Dev Hellpoint Dev Explains Why PS5 Is Not Backwards Compatible All The Way Back To PS1

IbizaPocholo

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Many feel that this is an area where Sony could do more, and someone else who agrees with that sentiment is Marc-André Jutras, technical director at Cradle Games, developers of the upcoming sci-fi Soulslike RPG Hellpoint. Speaking to GamingBolt in a recent interview, Jutras said that given the PS5’s powerful hardware, it should logically be able to run all past PlayStation games, and from the perspective of a gamer, it is frustrating that it doesn’t.

“As a gamer, it’s hard to figure out what’s the big deal with this,” said Jutras. “How come PS5 isn’t backward compatible with PS4, 3, 2, 1? If I can find some emulator for all those, and the new consoles are as powerful as a good gaming PC, then there’s no reason for all those games to not run, even with glitches. I wish they could just find a way to deal with it and just cover everything, even if not perfectly.”

That said, Jutras does feel that there are certain factors that might make that hard to achieve- legal reasons and licenses being one such factor.

“As a developer however, I can see where some legal stuff could get a bit blurry, especially if the goal is to have those older gamers sold in some stores,” he said. “Some companies don’t exist anymore and licenses of those titles might not be so easy to figure out. I also understand that older consoles might have some form of hardware DRM that could prevent newer consoles from reading older disks.”

“To be honest, I just wish backward compatibility wasn’t a novel thing and just an expected feature, covering all titles,” Jutras concluded.
 

ZehDon

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... “As a developer however, I can see where some legal stuff could get a bit blurry, especially if the goal is to have those older gamers sold in some stores,” he said. “Some companies don’t exist anymore and licenses of those titles might not be so easy to figure out. I also understand that older consoles might have some form of hardware DRM that could prevent newer consoles from reading older disks.”...
All totally valid points. I think the issue is expectations - Sony really started something when they did it with the PS2 for the PS1. No one really expected the Super Nintendo to run NES games - but after Sony did that, we realised that it kinda makes sense. When Sony did it again for the PS3, it cemented it's position as a welcomed and expected feature. That's the reason why people were disheartened when the PS4 didn't have it... and Sony selling emulated titles are higher prices only fanned those flames. Heck, my Vita runs these games, and it was developed in unison with the PS4. Microsoft's embraced it to great effect - I'm playing through KOTOR again, and I'll be hitting up Conker after that. Seeing Sony not continue legacy BC, even for just their own published titles, just feels a bit wrong, even if it totally makes sense.
 

diffusionx

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If we're talking about PS1 and PS2 backwards compatibility then no MS doesn't have a solution.

Here are the problems Jutra spells out:

1. Legal stuff, especially older games in stores - do the work to get permissions/legal clearance, and sell the games you can. This is what MS does.
2. Hardware DRM - all you technically need to do is read what the game is, then download a ROM from the internet and run that - again, this is what MS does.

The PS4 *can* emulate a PS2, they just sell a small number of games instead of letting you play ones you own. Same is true of PS3, after they took out PS2 BC. But the PS3 had a full-fledged PS1 emulator, with the discs.
 
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Here are the problems Jutra spells out:

1. Legal stuff, especially older games in stores - do the work to get permissions/legal clearance, and sell the games you can. This is what MS does.
2. Hardware DRM - all you technically need to do is read what the game is, then download a ROM from the internet and run that - again, this is what MS does.

The PS4 *can* emulate a PS2, they just sell a small number of games instead of letting you play ones you own. Same is true of PS3, after they took out PS2 BC. But the PS3 had a full-fledged PS1 emulator, with the discs.

Now take a look at how far Microsoft has come with OG Xbox games.

Not far. They've managed to do a dozen or and that's it.

Now consider the fact that the PS1 and PS2 have a library multiple times larger than the OG Xbox.

Microsoft's solution is not feasible.
 
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Andodalf

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Are these guys just Sony PR? They’re giving out far more “specifics” about the system than Sony in the past month

Now take a look at how far Microsoft has come with OG Xbox games.

Not far. They've managed to do a dozen or and that's it.

Now consider the fact that the PS1 and PS2 have a library multiple times larger than the OG Xbox.

Microsoft's solution is not feasible.


MS has just under 40 games from the OG xbox, most of which are enhanced, with more enhancements to come on SX, such as HDR. Is that worse than just having nothing? For older games licencing is going to be a major issue, but if it makes old, rare gems available, it's very much so worth the effort and money.
 
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theclaw135

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PS3 got it right out of the gate (until Sony yanked the PS2 chips). License the games you can to sell digitally, let everything else be played from a disc.
They didn't stop you from trying even games that emulation bugs make completely unplayable.
 

diffusionx

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Now take a look at how far Microsoft has come with OG Xbox games.

Not far. They've managed to do a dozen and that's it.

Now consider the fact that the PS1 and PS2 have a library multiple times larger than the OG Xbox.

Microsoft's solution is not feasible.

It's actually 39 games, but MS didn't spend a lot of time on original Xbox, and they approached it the same way they did 360, by first targeting the most requested games. They added Splinter Cell in the last update, and I wouldn't be surprised if they keep adding games after the Series X.

There is nothing stopping Sony from doing the same approach for PS2 games, if they wanted to. A bunch of nerds have written high performance emulators that support hundreds of PS2 games, you can't tell me Sony can't do better for a more powerful console if they wanted to.
 
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It's actually 39 games, but MS didn't spend a lot of time on original Xbox, and they approached it the same way they did 360, by first targeting the most requested games. They added Splinter Cell in the last update, and I wouldn't be surprised if they keep adding games after the Series X.

There is nothing stopping Sony from doing the same approach for PS2 games, if they wanted to.

And market it as what?

"We're proud to announce 1% of our PS1 and PS2 titles are now backwards compatible with the PS5"

It's not feasible.
 

Andodalf

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And market it as what?

"We're proud to announce 1% of our PS1 and PS2 titles are now backwards compatible with the PS5"

It's not feasible.

Yeah everyone is scathingly mad that Xbox offers BC! I'm pissed as hell Kotor 2 is available and with a X enhancement! Why would I want to play that when Lord of the Rings the third age isn't available! / obvious S

Any BC is good BC. Sony announcing even just first party BC would be huge for PS1/2
 
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Are these guys just Sony PR? They’re giving out far more “specifics” about the system than Sony in the past month
MS has just under 40 games from the OG xbox, some of which are enhanced, with more enhancements to come on SX, such as HDR. Is that worse than just having nothing? For older games licencing is going to be a major issue, but if it makes old, rare gems available, it's very much so worth the effort and money.

I don't see how making a mere 1% of your legacy library backwards compatible is worth the effort and money. I'd much rather they put effort into modernising them or remasters
 
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Yeah everyone is scathingly mad that Xbox offers BC! I'm pissed as hell Kotor 2 is available and with a X enhancement! Why would I want to play that when Lord of the Rings the third age isn't available! / obvious S

Any BC is good BC. Sony announcing even just first party BC would be huge for PS1/2

Most people don't give a fuck

Even fewer people will give a fuck with such a tiny selection

Not worth it
 

diffusionx

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And market it as what?

"We're proud to announce 1% of our PS1 and PS2 titles are now backwards compatible with the PS5"

It's not feasible.

I find it amazing that I have to spell this out.

Was this how MS did it? No, it was, "play Halo Reach and Mass Effect on your Xbox One", then later it was "play Dark Souls and Red Dead on your Xbox One", then down the road it was, "play Lost Odyssey on your Xbox One", and so forth. And every time they got PR headlines because their One got more valuable. People liked it a lot.

If anyone thinks that Sony can't offer Silent Hill 2 BC because Pimp My Ride isn't supported, or that people will be mad because while they can play Motorstorm they can't play Rogue Warrior, trust me you are wrong.
 
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Gamernyc78

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Yeah everyone is scathingly mad that Xbox offers BC! I'm pissed as hell Kotor 2 is available and with a X enhancement! Why would I want to play that when Lord of the Rings the third age isn't available! / obvious S

Any BC is good BC. Sony announcing even just first party BC would be huge for PS1/2
Huge??? Bc in totality hasn't been a huge, console selling feature. Ps1/2 would be good news for a very select few, very few. Not huge at all most ppl don't care about ps1/2 games.
 
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I find it amazing that I have to spell this out.

Was this how MS did it? No, it was, "play Halo Reach and Mass Effect on your Xbox One", then later it was "play Dark Souls and Red Dead on your Xbox One", then down the road it was, "play Lost Odyssey on your Xbox One", and so forth. And every time they got PR headlines because their One got more valuable. People liked it a lot.

If anyone thinks that Sony can't offer Silent Hill 2 BC because Pimp My Ride isn't supported, or that people will be mad because while they can play Motorstorm they can't play Rogue Warrior, trust me you are wrong.

PS3 titles I support.

PS1 and PS2 titles? No. People won't give a fuck about Silent Hills 2 being backwards compatible. They're not going to get the same type of PR from such old ass games

Wake up to reality
 
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Pallas

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You would think thy pioneered it. But then again select few are also going crazy over 720p XCloud 🤦‍♂️as if it is the first.


They will be the only console offering BC to legacy consoles. I’m amazed they even got 39 OG Xbox games to work, and they have done a fantastic job with 360 compatibility.
 

RAIDEN1

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Sony weren't bothered about it in the PS4 days, with the list being woeful, so what makes you think they'd be bothered now with their new console...
 

tryDEATH

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And market it as what?

"We're proud to announce 1% of our PS1 and PS2 titles are now backwards compatible with the PS5"

It's not feasible.

That is literally the marketing for the PS5 back comparability where they came out and said that at least the Top 100 games from PS4 will be played up on launch and that they will continue to add more PS4 games.

So why not go with the same marketing stick for older generations highlighting a specific numbers that has some sort of significance.
 
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That is literally the marketing for the PS5 back comparability where they came out and said that at least the Top 100 games from PS4 will be played up on launch and that they will continue to add more PS4 games.

So why not go with the same marketing stick for older generations highlighting a specific numbers that has some sort of significance.

And then they had to backtrack and confirm thousands

Cerny isn't a PR guy.
 
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It's kind of cute how people who don't have the possibility to play old games tell me how I should feel about being able to play many of them. It is absolutely worth it and I'm not alone thinking like that.

No one is telling you how to feel. Don't be so sensitive
 

Sakura

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I personally don't care much about backwards compatibility, but why would legal/licence issues be a thing? I don't see why Sony would want to sell old games in stores. Even if they did, they could just do reprints of certain titles that they can get, and everybody else can just use copies they already have or buy used copies.
 
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Naked Lunch

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I thought there was still some hope that further BC would be revealed? Guess not...
Having only select PS4 games BC is weak as fuck. A huge missed opportunity.
 
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Not thousands at release of PS5, eventually down the line they will have 1000's.

No the plan is thousands. That's there marketing. They're not marketing it as nearly 100 playable at launch. Don't take what Cerny is saying at a developer-focused conference as PS5 marketing
 
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Well, at least you figured it was about you. Good. And, don't worry, I'm fine and probably get off my ass and load up one of those old Splinter Cell games I never tried before.

And then drop it within the first hour. Pretty much what I do unless my nostalgia glasses are set to the highest settings
 

GriffinCorp

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Why is there a licensing issue, if Sony "just" added the PS/PS2 chips in the console? Would they have to get new licensing for all those games? I thought if Sony could just start making those chips then they would not have to go to each company to get those games to play from the disc. I really don't know a lot about it. I enjoy BC on Xbox a lot, but I really have a lot of wonderful PS/PS2 games I would love to play. I'm ready to move my PS3 out of my entertainment center.
 
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cireza

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Now everything is measured through Microsoft's BC? Wow.
Of course, that's what happens when a company actually sets the norm with a quality feature that largely surpass anything done before. It becomes the new reference.
 
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-Arcadia-

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All I can say is that being able to play select Xbox classics and a bunch of 360 games, is a wonderful option. As are the PS2 classics Sony has available for sale.

The more BC, or just options to play these old games, the better. My recent One X purchase had a lot of extra value attached to it by letting me go back and play games like Kotor, games that mean a lot to me, but on the console side of things, were permanently trapped on old hardware that doesn’t play well with current TVs.
 
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chitzy

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Not buying the legal argument given that BC has been a thing since PS1. More realistically Sony doesn't want to spend the resources to develop an emulation solution, which is a tough task due to the unique archiectures of PS2 and PS3.
 
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Not buying the legal argument given that BC has been a thing since PS1. More realistically Sony doesn't want to spend the resources to develop an emulation solution, which is a tough task due to the unique archiectures of PS2 and PS3.

Because up until the later models of the PS3 backwards compatibility was supported natively so licensing wasn't an issue
 

Rubberwald

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And then drop it within the first hour. Pretty much what I do unless my nostalgia glasses are set to the highest settings

That is certainly true for some of the OG xbox games. Some are way too dated in all departments and lack of achievments don't help, but some games have survived the test of time pretty well. Played all the way through or at least more than an hour: Black, KOTOR 2, Crimson Skies, Ninja Gaiden Black and Panzer Dragoon Orta (which still looks amazing). xbox 360 games with enhancements usually fare better and I think I have played and enjoyed at least 10 of them over the last few years. I don't think I would be devastated if there was no way to play old games through BC, but given the option, I truly appreciate it.
 
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Quasicat

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I still have my PS3 set up for this reason. Most of the games I still play on it are 1st party titles: God of War series, Sly Cooper series, PlayStation All Stars Battle Royals, inFamous series, and the Ratchet and Clank games. I don’t know why Sony can’t get these games up and running if it’s possible.
 

Self

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It's actually 39 games, but MS didn't spend a lot of time on original Xbox, and they approached it the same way they did 360, by first targeting the most requested games.

Nah common. That's not good enough. Not in the slightest.

PS1/PS2 library is huge, gigantic.
I want it all or nothing at all.
 

CobraXT

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btw .. microsoft force anyone who want to release their game in the xb1 to allow them to make the software forwardcompatible with any of
their future consoles .. i guess not many third party companies are happy about this .. sony on the other hand didnt make such an agreement ..
ms really cared about bc since the early days of the xb1 .. i estimate xsx will run 98 % of the xb1 games day 1 .. ps4 will run 30-40 % of games .. due
to hardware and third party licensing problems
 
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tryDEATH

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No the plan is thousands. That's there marketing. They're not marketing it as nearly 100 playable at launch. Don't take what Cerny is saying at a developer-focused conference as PS5 marketing

That is there pitch right now, as it concerns back compatibility. They can't say you will play 1000's of back compatible games when that isn't the reality when the console launches, you can only advertise what the system is capable the moment you sell it other wise they will get sued to kingdom come for false advertising.

Also that developer-focused presentation sure made everyone on these forums developers all of a sudden and turned the SSD into marketing spin real quick.

My point still stands they should have just said we are bring 25 of the most popular PS1/2 games as back compatibility. They already have the PS Classic with 20 game just chuck that into the PS5 and get a couple more and your good to go.