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Has Nintendo given up on AAA gaming?

SlimySnake

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I am going to put this in the most delicate manner possible so as to not turn this into a console war. Does Nintendo really care about AAA gaming like Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Take Two, and EA do?

I watched this Direct today and I was quite frankly blown away by almost a complete lack of new AAA games. I think I saw a Monster Hunter spin off, but that was it. Zelda is still not ready, Metroid is still not ready. It's been four years for teasing, and quite frankly if they had anything else during this period, the wait for BOTW 2 wouldnt have been so agonizing.

The Switch will be entering its 5th year next month. If we dont count cross gen games like Zelda, I am struggling to see what other AAA games they have released since. Animal Crossing, Smash, Mario Odyssey? I dont even want to go into a debate about whether or not they are AAA, but surely this is simply not good enough for fans who want to have AAA games with that Nintendo magic.

Both Microsoft and Sony are bending over backwards buying studios if not entire publishing companies, signing developers for exclusives, putting millions into bigger AAA first party games, and here we have Nintendo just sitting there making Mario Golf, Splatoon 3, and pretending that it's enough. Looking at sales, it maybe is, but as a gamer I feel like Nintendo has simply given up. They have found their market and that market is making them billions, but that market isnt your average hardcore gamer who visits gaf and plays AAA games.
 
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SlimySnake

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They are a business and there is no monetary incentive to increase the costs of their game development. Until it starts to affect their cash flow you probably won't see them produce the kind of titles you referenced.
I hold Nintendo in higher regard than that. They are the king of game design and are primarily responsible for games being an art form. If Nintendo has turned into Netflix where they just wnt to churn out "content" for the masses to consume then i will be devastated as a life long gamer.
 

mcjmetroid

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It's becoming more and more noticeable as times goes on isn't it.

This is why the constant threads about Switch sales pisses me off. Who cares?

Praising Nintendo on how much Switches they sold seem to be thrown in people's faces like some sort of validation for their fans who by the same token are been starved of NEW games for the system that's still outselling ps5 and Xbox series X as well as the PS4 and Xbox one. How is this happening?

When Nintendo become this successful.. they kinda just stop trying.

They haven't forgotten about AAA gaming, they're holding them back until the launch of their Switch 2 which will have 2 years of top tier games and then the Mario Sports titles, gimmicky Yoshi's games and basically the C-tier games for the rest of its life.
 

Azelover

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I welcome not doing "AAA".

I enjoy playing those games to a certain extent.. But many of those games, which feel like movies(I assume that's what you're talking about), don't always play the way I'd like. More often than not the actual fun factor takes a back seat to realism. I don't necessarily care that an item floats over the head of my character when I get it. Or if there's a complex animation in the process of getting weapons and such. None of that stuff matters to me. I like Nintendo's games because they don't mind being silly, or unrealsitic. The controls, the gameplay, the overall character and soul. That's what matter to me. Not if it's "AAA".
 

Danjin44

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Abriael_GN

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Except Rise is not spin off.


Why not? World is considered AAA, is AAA about high tech graphics!!? I'm not exactly understand what AAA means.

AAA is mostly an indication of budget, and high tech graphics are a big part of that. Rise doesn't seem to fit that definition. World, yes, that'd probably fit an AAA game. Rise, nah.
 
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EDMIX

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I am going to put this in the most delicate manner possible so as to not turn this into a console war. Does Nintendo really care about AAA gaming like Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Take Two, and EA do?

I watched this Direct today and I was quite frankly blown away by almost a complete lack of new AAA games. I think I saw a Monster Hunter spin off, but that was it. Zelda is still not ready, Metroid is still not ready. It's been four years for teasing, and quite frankly if they had anything else during this period, the wait for BOTW 2 wouldnt have been so agonizing.

The Switch will be entering its 5th year next month. If we dont count cross gen games like Zelda, I am struggling to see what other AAA games they have released since. Animal Crossing, Smash, Mario Odyssey? I dont even want to go into a debate about whether or not they are AAA, but surely this is simply not good enough for fans who want to have AAA games with that Nintendo magic.

Both Microsoft and Sony are bending over backwards buying studios if not entire publishing companies, signing developers for exclusives, putting millions into bigger AAA first party games, and here we have Nintendo just sitting there making Mario Golf, Splatoon 3, and pretending that it's enough. Looking at sales, it maybe is, but as a gamer I feel like Nintendo has simply given up. They have found their market and that market is making them billions, but that market isnt your average hardcore gamer who visits gaf and plays AAA games.

I don't know If I would go that far to say that.

I think they just still have Zelda and Metroid being worked on and it takes time. I do how ever agree that their AAA output has been very small considering.... 5 years is a long time, I didn't even fucking notice how long its been.

Sony or MS can just release Uncharted Collection, MCC and just call it day and continue to just put out ports of last gen shit. Don't get me wrong, ports of Mario Kart and all those other games make sense for what they dealt with from Wii U, but that doesn't excuse the lack of their own brand new titles coming out.

For Square, Capcom, Koei and even Ubisoft to start to carry them is a bit much and a disservice to their loyal install base. Bravely Default 2 and Hyrule Warriors should be a cherry on top for Nintendo's fans, not the whole fucking years line up. It tells me Nintendo is taking advantage and simply outsourcing and porting. This should be when they put deep investments in new AAA IP to get more of that market trusting them instead of milking ports. Nothing is wrong with those ports btw, they are needed and it makes sense, something is however wrong when those ports start to take the place of their whole line up as some excuse not to actually put out new titles.

At this point, Switches library when we are done will just be Wii U, Wii, Gamecube ports etc

So if you look at MS, XONE's line up wasn't just Gears ports, MCC etc. They still made brand new IP and sequels to big titles.

If you look at Sony with PS4's line up, yea you got Uncharted collection, Jak ports etc, you also got Days Gone, Spiderman, Horizon, Death Stranding, Ghost Of Tsushima etc.


They can do more, they can do better. MS is literally showing Nintendo how its done with cranking out new AAA IP. A critique that use to really only be on MS, is now on Nintendo......
 

jufonuk

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It's becoming more and more noticeable as times goes on isn't it.

This is why the constant threads about Switch sales pisses me off. Who cares?

Praising Nintendo on how much Switches they sold seem to be thrown in people's faces like some sort of validation for their fans who by the same token are been starved of NEW games for the system that's still outselling ps5 and Xbox series X as well as the PS4 and Xbox one. How is this happening?

When Nintendo become this successful.. they kinda just stop trying.

They haven't forgotten about AAA gaming, they're holding them back until the launch of their Switch 2 which will have 2 years of top tier games and then the Mario Sports titles, gimmicky Yoshi's games and basically the C-tier games for the rest of its life.
A successful Nintendo is a lazy and arrogant Nintendo. They just kind of give up when they fuck up only so they then produce something as awesome as the switch only to chill and repeat

but having said that with Covid and AAA games having massive budgets this approach can work for now
 
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Fbh

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Why wouldn't they with their current sales?

Spend a third of what every other big company is spending and sell like 3X more.

If Sony/Ms could pull a Pokémon and just make Halo/God of War with PS2 tier production values knowing they are guaranteed to sell like 20 million units they would give up AAA development too

Is Monster Hunter Rise not considered AAA game? Also Rise considered mainline MH.


That's both developed and published by Capcom though.

Nintendo moneyhatting a (possibly timed) exclusive isn't the same as fully supporting AAA games.
 
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Golgo 13

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I am going to put this in the most delicate manner possible so as to not turn this into a console war. Does Nintendo really care about AAA gaming like Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Take Two, and EA do?

I watched this Direct today and I was quite frankly blown away by almost a complete lack of new AAA games. I think I saw a Monster Hunter spin off, but that was it. Zelda is still not ready, Metroid is still not ready. It's been four years for teasing, and quite frankly if they had anything else during this period, the wait for BOTW 2 wouldnt have been so agonizing.

The Switch will be entering its 5th year next month. If we dont count cross gen games like Zelda, I am struggling to see what other AAA games they have released since. Animal Crossing, Smash, Mario Odyssey? I dont even want to go into a debate about whether or not they are AAA, but surely this is simply not good enough for fans who want to have AAA games with that Nintendo magic.

Both Microsoft and Sony are bending over backwards buying studios if not entire publishing companies, signing developers for exclusives, putting millions into bigger AAA first party games, and here we have Nintendo just sitting there making Mario Golf, Splatoon 3, and pretending that it's enough. Looking at sales, it maybe is, but as a gamer I feel like Nintendo has simply given up. They have found their market and that market is making them billions, but that market isnt your average hardcore gamer who visits gaf and plays AAA games.
I think you've got a good point in that, Nintendo's actual internal talent (The Zelda and Mario teams) can only churn out a good game ever 5-7 years. After that, they've got all their properties they've pawned off onto lesser development studios to fill the gaps between Nintendo's internal, big IP releases (trash and filler games like Mario Party, Paper Mario, etc). The one exception was probably Retro, but whatever they were working on was cancelled or indefinitely delayed until Metroid ships (I believe it's been 7 years since they've produced a game). Now that Nintendo is competing in the next-gen console space and they inevitably have the worst versions of third party games, they don't have as much to fall back on. The only games that come out on the system that can be uniquely exciting are games that come from the congested and overloaded teams inside Nintendo itself. I think one of the best things about the launch period of the Switch was that all of Nintendo's elite development studios were poised to have games on/near release date of the Switch, to ensure the success of the launch, and the system. And they did; Zelda, Mario, and Splatoon all launched relatively close to each other. But now we're starving. So now it's just indies and badly downgraded versions of third party games.

Not only that, but the hardware is rapidly aging and needs an upgrade sooner than later to keep rekindle some of the excitement.

So to answer your question; yes. There's little to play now or on the horizon for hardcore gamers. But that won't stop the Switch from selling 25 million this year.
 
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I think they'd only care about AAA games as a means to sell their hardware. As was the case with Zelda

And since the hardware basically sells itself, the games are just there for the profit, so why bother
 

mcjmetroid

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Were they ever AAA gaming? What I can say though is that Direct did not make me want to play my switch anytime soon
A AAA Nintendo game is a different beast.

To me It used to be mean a game with top tier graphics for the system, a game that will more than justify its 60 dollar price point, a game that has effort put behind it.

For example I'd consider Pikmin 1 for the GameCube a Nintendo AAA game, Splatoon 2 a AAA game, Luigi's mansion 3 etc

It doesn't have to be a mario Zelda or Metroid like some people think.

It just needs to feel like effort has been put into it.

AA or lower games to me like the Kirby Games, The Yoshi's spin off games, mario sports games. That link's awakening remake.

My issues with those types of Nintendo games is a lot of them are not valuable enough to justify a full price release. On other systems these titles would be budget releases.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Why would you want to force Nintendo into something it is not? Ninty has delivered us home consoles to the masses (NES/SNES), 3D graphics and an analogue controller (N64), motion controls (Wii) and handhelds (Switch). All without going into their stellar titles themselves.

There is no reason they should go head to head with Sony or MS or so called AAA third party publishers. They bring innovation to the industry, keep them trying things not cookie cutter iterations.
 
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mcjmetroid

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AAA is mostly an indication of budget, and high tech graphics are a big part of that. Rise doesn't seem to fit that definition. World, yes, that'd probably fit an AAA game. Rise, nah.
I have to disagree. I think Rise for its system the Switch is a great looking good and a great looking game in general that looks and feels like a mainline game in every way.

In a lot of ways it looks better than world. It's a AAA game. Plus it'll get released on the PC in the future according to the Capcom leak so you know they're aiming for a big time game here even if you don't think the Switch is worth it.
 

Jubenhimer

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Ah the hot takes are here! In all seriousness chill, Nintendo rarely releases big AAA games in the first few months to begin with. Summer and Fall are usually when the big games come. Besides, did you miss the part when it said that this Direct would mostly focus on the first half of 2021? That's how you should know there wouldn't be a ton of AAA game reveals.
 
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FStubbs

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They never really were AAA developers like EA or Ubisoft.

A few of their first party games are AAA like Breath of the Wild but most of their output is AA and below.

And the AAA(A) studios are aiming for PS5/Series X. It's good to have different ecosystems focused on different things.
 
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Why would you want to force Nintendo into something its not? Ninty has delivered us home consoles to the masses (NES/SNES), 3D graphics and an analogue controller (N64), motion controls (Wii) and handhelds (Switch). All without going into their stellar titles themselves.

There is no reason they should go head to head with Sony or MS or so called AAA third party publishers. They bring innovation to the industry, keep them trying things not cookie cutter iterations.

They don't need to make the same AAA games as Sony or Microsoft.

I'd rebuy a switch in a heartbeat if they just did a pokemon game with the scope of Zelda. That's it, and just put more effort into big scope titles like that.
 
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dvdvideo

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I like Nintendo and thier games, but they are set in thier ways. If they had real competition in that space everything would be different.
Imagine an exact copy of the switch made by sony, with sony games on it, launched at the same time as switch, the switch sells 25% of what was sold. I'm still confused as to why ms or sony don't launch thier own.
 

killatopak

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Kinda sad about that.

I remember the times when Nintendo wow’d us in graphics.

They fully embraced the kids audience and before you say bUt AxetUally adults can enjoy games targeted to kids as well.
 
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The Switch is mostly successful due to the handheld aspect of it hitting the sweet spot. It has a market to itself there. No so much because it's a proper console next to XSX or PS5. You can see it in the audience it sells itself to, in Japan and elsewhere. Nintendo basically consolidated their console and handheld business. They've not necessarily grown outside the bounds of their successes with the Wii and DS's when they had those product lines running simultaneously to great success sales wise, and software wise.

AAA games take massive staffing. Easier, cheaper, faster to ship a platformer than the next God of War for example. Don't think the Breath of the Wild team is even as big as Guerilla making Horizon, or Rockstar making Red Dead. They're applying the "work smarter not harder" approach to business and that's paying off for now..... but it can backfire too like with the Wii U now that their product lines are consolidated. There is no safety backup for a dud (other than Switch profits they're surely packing).
 
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StateofMajora

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Calm down and wait for e3. Also, switch will turn 4 next month, although I understood what you meant OP

And someone said it, but I think it's true to an extent that Nintendo tries less with its games when they have a successful generation.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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I like Nintendo and thier games, but they are set in thier ways. If they had real competition in that space everything would be different.
Imagine an exact copy of the switch made by sony, with sony games on it, launched at the same time as switch, the switch sells 25% of what was sold. I'm still confused as to why ms or sony don't launch thier own.

I honestly thought Xbox was going to do just that with the Series S, dockable and handheld. I don't know why they don't have more power in the dock/base then less processing when handheld on the go. Literally a premium console and handheld. They already forced devs to go with two Xbox Series targets, why didn't they make on handheld? I suppose xCloud is their answer but it's not the same and less portable/efficient away from internet access.
 

SlimySnake

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They gave up on AAA gaming 15 years ago when they released the Wii and decided to stay a generation behind in graphics.
well seeing as how the Switch is basically equivalent to a PS3, they are now two gens behind.

I don't know If I would go that far to say that.

I think they just still have Zelda and Metroid being worked on and it takes time. I do how ever agree that their AAA output has been very small considering.... 5 years is a long time, I didn't even fucking notice how long its been.

Sony or MS can just release Uncharted Collection, MCC and just call it day and continue to just put out ports of last gen shit. Don't get me wrong, ports of Mario Kart and all those other games make sense for what they dealt with from Wii U, but that doesn't excuse the lack of their own brand new titles coming out.

For Square, Capcom, Koei and even Ubisoft to start to carry them is a bit much and a disservice to their loyal install base. Bravely Default 2 and Hyrule Warriors should be a cherry on top for Nintendo's fans, not the whole fucking years line up. It tells me Nintendo is taking advantage and simply outsourcing and porting. This should be when they put deep investments in new AAA IP to get more of that market trusting them instead of milking ports. Nothing is wrong with those ports btw, they are needed and it makes sense, something is however wrong when those ports start to take the place of their whole line up as some excuse not to actually put out new titles.

At this point, Switches library when we are done will just be Wii U, Wii, Gamecube ports etc

So if you look at MS, XONE's line up wasn't just Gears ports, MCC etc. They still made brand new IP and sequels to big titles.

If you look at Sony with PS4's line up, yea you got Uncharted collection, Jak ports etc, you also got Days Gone, Spiderman, Horizon, Death Stranding, Ghost Of Tsushima etc.


They can do more, they can do better. MS is literally showing Nintendo how its done with cranking out new AAA IP. A critique that use to really only be on MS, is now on Nintendo......
I think this is the biggest problem they have. They just forgot to invest in their first party studios. They had no new acquisitions which is fine, but it feels like they haven't increased their team sizes to adapt to making AAA games even by the PS360 era standards. I remember ND used to be 75 people when they launched UDF, but then had to double the team to 150 people just to ship U2 with multiplayer. By the time TLOU2 came out they were over 200 people. Now they are around 500 people with a thousand more doing outsourced work. Same thing with GG and Santa Monica. Sony Bend is only 100 people and it took them 7 years to ship Days Gone. I feel like the zelda team is really that small.

Nintendo needs to take those billions they make in profit every year and invest into their own studios. Japanese studios dont even cost as much as LA studios like Infinity Ward, Crystal Dynamics, SSM, Insomniacs and ND. A few hundred million would buy them 500-1000 people for the entire gen.
 
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I honestly thought Xbox was going to do just that with the Series S, dockable and handheld. I don't know why they don't have more power in the dock/base then less processing when handheld on the go. Literally a premium console and handheld. They already forced devs to go with two Xbox Series targets, why didn't they make on handheld? I suppose xCloud is their answer but it's not the same and less portable/efficient away from internet access.

A handheld that can run next gen games natively doesn't sound possible on 2020 hardware
 
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