Astral Dog
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if Square Enix looked a bit at this game for FFXVI, and thats enough, no matter what kind of RPG it is
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Has Final Fantasy ever had AAA Jrpg competition since FF6???
- Thread starter MvCSpiderman
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I wouldn't be surprised if Square Enix looked a bit at this game for FFXVI, and thats enough, no matter what kind of RPG it is
MvCSpiderman
Banned
Jrpg fans hate that game though. So it wouldn't be a choice for them.The Witcher 3
I wouldn't be surprised if Square Enix looked a bit at this game for FFXVI, and thats enough, no matter what kind of RPG it is
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Xenoblade Chronicles X on WIiU.
What's wrong with you guys not getting a WIiU for that game! (I know the tablet was trash).
What's wrong with you guys not getting a WIiU for that game! (I know the tablet was trash).
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
MvCSpiderman
Banned
Which is a Square game.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
No it’s an Enix game.
Square - enix didn’t happen until dq 9 and ff13. And really those game were well underway before the buyout.
MvCSpiderman
Banned
Oof85
Member
Sorry buy had to bump.
Valkyrie Profile WAS an AAA contemporary of FF. The sequel on Ps2 was definitely an investment.
Matter of fact, I'll say VP the original is a better game than any FF to this day. It never got the public recognition it deserved but imo it was definitely the better game.
Which makes the newest entry even sadder to see, at least going by what we've seen so far.
Pokemon is the unspoken of real giant of the genre, and it is AAA by every measure but visuals, I think.
Xb seems to be making a strong push for mindshare as well, at least with the 3rd one soon to come.
Valkyrie Profile WAS an AAA contemporary of FF. The sequel on Ps2 was definitely an investment.
Matter of fact, I'll say VP the original is a better game than any FF to this day. It never got the public recognition it deserved but imo it was definitely the better game.
Which makes the newest entry even sadder to see, at least going by what we've seen so far.
Pokemon is the unspoken of real giant of the genre, and it is AAA by every measure but visuals, I think.
Xb seems to be making a strong push for mindshare as well, at least with the 3rd one soon to come.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I loved Valkyrie Profile becuase of it's story, which is a far better example than FFVI on how to make a good story with tons of characters.
That said, I think the gameplay was a bit lacking... the combat system was good on paper but I end up feeling it was a bit too much on the easy side.
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Javthusiast
Banned
There isn't one. Plain and simple.
cash_longfellow
Gold Member
I mean…Breath of Fire, but that was pretty close to FF6 when those titles were really good.
Mr.ODST
Member
I honestly miss the online, its available on PS3 streaming but its so delayed now I cba
Its weird no one talks about White Knight Chronicles, it was huge during its release everyone I knew who liked RPG's was playing it.
Oof85
Member
Pokemon?
March Climber
Member
This entire thread is ridiculous...but keep going.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
After Xenoblade 3 gets released, FF will finally have a true contender to its throne.
Javthusiast
Banned
Lmao for real? Yearly cheap ass pokemon? That is worse in recycling than COD?
FrankCaron
Member
Yakuza: Like A Dragon is the best non-MMO Final Fantasy since FFX.
Were any games on consoles technically AAA before PS3/360?
Ignoring Kingdom Hearts:
In the SNES generation, I'd argue Mario RPG, Arabian Nights, Tales and Star Ocean were beyond Final Fantasy in production quality. Chrono Trigger was equal. Though I think all five of them came out after Final Fantasy 6.
Dragon Quest 6 was definitely a match for FF6, and so were Terranigma, Breath of Fire 2, Far East of Eden, Romancing SaGa, and a bunch of others.
Suikoden 1 was just a year after FF6 and it obviously was an entire generation ahead.
I think you should use Final Fantasy 7 as the breaking point, because that's when Final Fantasy took a quantum leap ahead of all the other jRPG series. Before then, budget wise I think it was just one of many in the pack.
Legend of Dragoon matched Final Fantasy but was a one off. Koudelka was competitive but a more limited game. I don't think anything else in the PS1 generation came close (though Suikoden 2 and Breath of Fire 3-4 have aged better).
In the PS2 generation, Level 5 emerged with Dark Cloud, Dragon Quest, and Rogue Galaxy.
Tri-ace probably peaked in the PS2 generation and were able to compete. Star Ocean 3, Valkyrie Profile 2, and Radiata Stories were a match for the Final Fantasy games.
Koudelka morphed into Shadow Hearts which stayed competitive.
Gen 7 though was when many of the older AA series were crushed by the move to HD. Dragon Quest took a step backward with 9, Tri-Ace had some outings like Resonance of Fate but eventually couldn't keep up, and a bunch of the other series vanished or fled to the DS. Xenoblade emerged toward the end of this gen, but on the Wii, so again not a competitor for Final Fantasy for the purposes of this conversation.
You had the Microsoft bought and paid for AAA efforts in Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, but Lost Odyssey was a one off, and Blue Dragon's sequels fled to the DS.
Level 5 ran out of gas with the mediocre White Knight Chronicles, but did do Ni no Kuni.
So the end of this generation was when the gap really began to emerge.
Gen 8 was when the gap became pretty evident. Dragon Quest returned with 11 (as pointed out, same company), but no other games have quite matched FF in budget, though a few could still be considered AAA. (Ni no Kuni 2 for example was AAA, but comparatively speaking was a more humble effort than Ni no Kuni 1 was). The more popular series which emerged in Gens 7-8 like Trails, Ys, Atelier, and Persona were never AAA in any generation.
So I think no series other than Final Fantasy has quite been able to consistently be AAA since Final Fantasy 7, and the ones that do make it to AAA are still - at least graphics budget-wise - not in the same league as Final Fantasy.
Ignoring Kingdom Hearts:
In the SNES generation, I'd argue Mario RPG, Arabian Nights, Tales and Star Ocean were beyond Final Fantasy in production quality. Chrono Trigger was equal. Though I think all five of them came out after Final Fantasy 6.
Dragon Quest 6 was definitely a match for FF6, and so were Terranigma, Breath of Fire 2, Far East of Eden, Romancing SaGa, and a bunch of others.
Suikoden 1 was just a year after FF6 and it obviously was an entire generation ahead.
I think you should use Final Fantasy 7 as the breaking point, because that's when Final Fantasy took a quantum leap ahead of all the other jRPG series. Before then, budget wise I think it was just one of many in the pack.
Legend of Dragoon matched Final Fantasy but was a one off. Koudelka was competitive but a more limited game. I don't think anything else in the PS1 generation came close (though Suikoden 2 and Breath of Fire 3-4 have aged better).
In the PS2 generation, Level 5 emerged with Dark Cloud, Dragon Quest, and Rogue Galaxy.
Tri-ace probably peaked in the PS2 generation and were able to compete. Star Ocean 3, Valkyrie Profile 2, and Radiata Stories were a match for the Final Fantasy games.
Koudelka morphed into Shadow Hearts which stayed competitive.
Gen 7 though was when many of the older AA series were crushed by the move to HD. Dragon Quest took a step backward with 9, Tri-Ace had some outings like Resonance of Fate but eventually couldn't keep up, and a bunch of the other series vanished or fled to the DS. Xenoblade emerged toward the end of this gen, but on the Wii, so again not a competitor for Final Fantasy for the purposes of this conversation.
You had the Microsoft bought and paid for AAA efforts in Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, but Lost Odyssey was a one off, and Blue Dragon's sequels fled to the DS.
Level 5 ran out of gas with the mediocre White Knight Chronicles, but did do Ni no Kuni.
So the end of this generation was when the gap really began to emerge.
Gen 8 was when the gap became pretty evident. Dragon Quest returned with 11 (as pointed out, same company), but no other games have quite matched FF in budget, though a few could still be considered AAA. (Ni no Kuni 2 for example was AAA, but comparatively speaking was a more humble effort than Ni no Kuni 1 was). The more popular series which emerged in Gens 7-8 like Trails, Ys, Atelier, and Persona were never AAA in any generation.
So I think no series other than Final Fantasy has quite been able to consistently be AAA since Final Fantasy 7, and the ones that do make it to AAA are still - at least graphics budget-wise - not in the same league as Final Fantasy.
Belthazar
Member
Lol, FF XIII had more corners cut than Lost Odyssey. This person is clearly delusional.
Oof85
Member
AAA doesn't mean gloss but capitol. I doubt any FF ever cost more than Pokemon, when you look at the overall expenditure.
Javthusiast
Banned
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Oof85
Member
I'm legit surprised that you'd think it laughable that when you consider development and marketing overall, that Pokemon doesn't compare or exceed FF in expenditures.
If they SE are outspending TPC to achieve a pittance of the sales, they're really bad at business.
I do remember FF13 being criticized for being one linear corridor, which Lost Odyssey was not.
Lost Odyssey was a AAA game, but like I pointed out, wasn't sustained by any future releases.
Year late, but both of those games are 100% Square Enix, having started development post-merger.
DQ 8 and FF12 fit your description though.
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Javthusiast
Banned
Even with marketing those cheap looking Switch Pokemon games have not even half the budget of a Final Fantasy mainline game.
xellos2099alpha
Member
They should be quality wise, but not budget wise AAA
YeulEmeralda
Member
That Sony funded PS2 jrpg (it was so bad I forgot its name but it had crazy production values).
Otherwise Xenosaga maybe? Rogue Galaxy?
Otherwise Xenosaga maybe? Rogue Galaxy?
DragoonWalker
Member
Excellent post with some actual perspective. OP's entire premise/thesis is flawed. AAA games weren't a thing until PS360, and prior to that the gap of quality/scope/presentation between FF and other JRPGs was quite small, if not downright non-existent and sometimes even favoring the competition. This was especially true during the SNES days. Lots of JRPGs on par with FF visually. The PS1 era saw FF pull ahead but Skies of Arcadia was a gen ahead of FFIX. Both came out 2000. The competition was stiff during the PS2 days. Shadow Hearts Covenant, Grandia 3, Xenosaga I-III, Rogue Galaxy, SMT: Digital Devil Saga I-II, Star Ocean 3 were all in the ballpark of Final Fantasies from the same period.
Valkyrie Profile 2 was insane during it's day btw. Besides having detail to rival FFXII it was also able to run in 1080i mode on a PS2.
I do think the gap grew during Gen 7 though, and not Gen 8, as Japanese devs struggled with HD in general, including FF's own devs. The genre was also in decline during that time.
The competition for FFXVI won't be coming from Japan, but Korea and China.
Ezquimacore
Banned
Xenoblade Chronicles is better than any final fantasy game from the last two decades
I'd say Kingdom Hearts (whose DNA is half Final Fantasy to begin with) is the only consistently AAA member of that group. Dragon Quest has historically inconsistently been AAA, and the others - at least production value wise - were never AAA.
(Note: if you cite Xenoblade, given the platform I'd argue it's an AA series. Xenoblade 1 came out on the Wii in 2010. Great game, but graphics wise, far behind PS3/360 games. 2 probably came the closest, but with PS5/Series X, we're back to a Wii/PS3/360 gap between Nintendo and the other platforms).
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Let's get real, FFVI is overrated and FF V is the better one.
That's my opinion, and I consider I care much more about gameplay than story when it comes to games.
And while FFVI's story is more developed than V's, I still think V's story is more entertaining.
That's my opinion, and I consider I care much more about gameplay than story when it comes to games.
And while FFVI's story is more developed than V's, I still think V's story is more entertaining.
Nautilus
Banned
"Given the platform" lol.
Its the same bs excuse that comes up whenever Nintendo is successful. "It lacks power".
We have moved wayyy past graphics being the sole reason something is considered AAA or not. Actually, the term AAA lost its meaning just as exclusive("CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE" lol) has.
Minecraft is one of the biggest IPs in the world, MS probably spends dozens of millions of dollars on it, but it has "shitty" graphics.So Minecraft isn't AAA now?
Or Pokemon, literally the biggest multimedia franchise, THE JRPG of the industry and also one of the biggest IPs in the industry, but every mainline game has OK graphics at best. Is pokemon not AAA too?
Or Persona 5, is regarded as one of the best games of the last decade, sold as well as most FF games, is essentially just a PS3 game. Is it not an AAA game?
We have to move past the graphics as the sole indicator of the pedigree of a game, especially as raw graphics are becoming less and less relevant to the quality of the game, as the jump in processing power is wielding less results on that front. You could say that the budget of a game could be a good indicator, but without the companies saying how much they spent, there is no way to know that.
So honestly, we either shelve the term AAA, or find a new way to define it, because just like with the word exclusive, its definition is becoming more and more vague as time goes on.
Lunarorbit
Member
Pokémon ain't aaa. Persona 5 is
Nautilus
Banned
cartman414
Member
Dragon Quest V from the SNES era is still quite possibly the best DQ. And the PS2 era gave us FF12 (which I understand is a base breaker).
You're mistaken. AAA does not necessarily mean quality. AAA just means a ton of money poured into graphics and production value. This topic is entirely about graphics and production value. I don't think that's vague at all.
Minecraft - Microsoft spent a lot of money on it, but it was definitely a low budget game when created. Not AAA.
Pokemon - Heavily marketed, but the games themselves are barely AA.
Persona 5 - AA game at best.
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Nautilus
Banned
But that's an useless metric. Not only I don't agree with you that production values and graphics are the the place that money is mostly poured in when a dev wants to make ambitious game( XCX must have been an expensive game for Nintendo to make, same as BOTW, but neither of them are as graphically intensive as the games of their era), when games like Pokemon, Persona, Dragon Quest, etc are all being better received, selling better, AND innovating far more(to varying degrees) than those "AAA" games.
Graphics as a metric to determine how much money and ambition a dev is putting into a game is honestly a thing of the past(I mean, just look at Fortnite: It has a "lame" cartoon artstyle and overall graphics, but it has an insane ammount of production value being poured into it every day), as the game industry stopped EXCLUSIVELY chasing graphics with the advent of the 8th gen, open world games and the rising popularity of the gaming space.
So yes, Persona(as of 5), Pokemon, Xenoblade, Tales of(As of Arise), Dragon Quest, KH, and so many others are what we can consider nowadays AAA.
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But that's what the topic is about. If you think it's useless to discuss graphics and production values (AAA games), you're in the wrong topic. If you're trying to argue that graphics and production values have nothing to do with a game's overall quality - again, you're in the wrong topic.
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Nautilus
Banned
No I'm not, because a game being "AAA" doesn't mean cutting edge graphics anymore, and hasn't meant that for a while, as I have demonstrated in my posts.
The thread reminds me of Tengai Makyo 2 on PC Engine whose marketing boasted about the high production values because it was probably the most expensive RPG ever at the time, with a budget rumored to be around $5 million.
Joe Hisashi, famous award winning movie composer, was hired to write some of the music.
Total Characters : 3000
Enemy Characters : 400
Map : approx 20000 screens
Villages/Dungeons : about 250
Magic : about 100 different types
Items : approx 500
Narration : about 3 hours of speech, 10000 messages
Animation : about 30 minutes
BGM : 80 entries
Expected time to finish the game : 70 to 80 hours
Staff : 150 people
Joe Hisashi, famous award winning movie composer, was hired to write some of the music.
Total Characters : 3000
Enemy Characters : 400
Map : approx 20000 screens
Villages/Dungeons : about 250
Magic : about 100 different types
Items : approx 500
Narration : about 3 hours of speech, 10000 messages
Animation : about 30 minutes
BGM : 80 entries
Expected time to finish the game : 70 to 80 hours
Staff : 150 people
Oof85
Member
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