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Has Final Fantasy ever had AAA Jrpg competition since FF6???

greencoder

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Dragon Quest, Xenoblade Chronicles and Persona are AAA. But they can't compete with Final Fantasy, there will always be many people saying "What is DQ/XC/Persona?".
 

QuantumZebra

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I've only played the demo, but Dragon Quest XI seems pretty triple-A to me.

With how well it's been doing, Nier may turn AAA as well in the future...which I'm not sure is a good thing for the series tbh.

I'd say Nier and DQ are the closest to what OP is describing, but IMO Persona is a AAA JRPG... not sure what else could be considered one if not Persona.

I'd still take Final Fantasy though. Besides FFXV the output has been fantastic. FFXIV is great and they've done some good mobile stuff too.
 

ULTROS!

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In terms of graphical quality? I think SE pretty much has 90% of the "AAA" JRPG graphical quality. The other 10% is a mix bag of Atlus' Persona, A few of Falcom's stuff (I liked how Ys IX looked), L5's JRPGs (which are kinda... lacking nowadays), and some random Namco Bandai JRPGs (namely Tales of Arise looks great).

I mean look at their non-FF titles such as KH3, DQXI, heck even Star Ocean 5 looks great.
 

QuantumZebra

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In my view, Persona is a AA series that makes very smart use of a limited budget to impart a 'premium' feel.

Yeah but there's not really a lot of variance or big third party push behind JRPGs... at least in the U.S.

I remember seeing Persona 5 especially being promoted... I usually don't see AA titles promoted.

Same for DQ.
 
Nov 8, 2018
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OP is onto something.

For FF haters, this is not about games that are better than this FF or that FF. Of course there have been excellent RPGs since forever (Persona, Xenoblade, whatever you have in mind). We're not talking quality of games, but their budget and production values.

For example, Xenoblade was incredible in its vastness and its seamless open-world design was groundbreaking for JRPGs but the graphics were PS2 level. Persona 5 looks great but it doesn't have cutting-edge graphics.

The only JRPG that comes to mind as genuinely AAA is, as other have pointed out, Dragon Quest XI, and it happens to be a SquareEnix game.
 

Thabass

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What's nonsense is you thinking LO was AAA.
It was AAA, it just wasn't competition.

To the OP, there haven't been many. The one's I can think of off the top of my head are:

Persona
Fire Emblem
Ni No Kuni
World of Warcraft (a direct competitor to Final Fantasy XIV; which, in my opinion, Square is dominating gameplay-wise).
Yakuza 7: Like a Dragon
Xenoblade Chronicles

I also find it funny, that, Shim Megami Tensai is nowhere near this list, yet Persona is at the top of it. Funny how that works out. And I'm sure there's more I can name and I'm just forgetting.
 
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Life

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Whats the point of making a thread when you're already so convinced? Short answers, yes, there are RPGs AND JRPGs way better than the archaic FF model we've been fed for decades now.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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MAYBE Legend of Dragoon or Lost Odyssey. Those are the only two JRPGs I can think of that really tried to “out-Final Fantasy” Final Fantasy.

I can’t think of any other JRPGs that even tried to be AAA games with big budgets, cutting edge graphics, big set pieces, etc.

And to all the triggered JRPG nuts in here, AAA is referring to budget and production values. Not “games that you subjectively enjoyed more than Final Fantasy”.
 
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Kokoloko85

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Persona
SMT
Pokemon
XenoSaga
Tales of
Breath of Fire
Suikoden
Dragon Quest
Grandia
Mario RPG

Theres been loads not including Zelda, Dark Souls which alot of people dont consider JRPG’s but probably none bigger than Final Fantasy. Its like no 1st person shooter is bigger than Call of Duty
 
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SinDelta

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There have been a some really amazing JRPGs, though opinions may vary on how they stack up to golden age Final Fantasy.

























 
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GodofWhimsy

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SMT. Specifically the Persons spin-off's. The 4th entry destroyed all the FF entries of the 7th generation critically, whilst the 5th entry sweeped the floor with FF 15 critically and only performed slightly worse financially. Mighty impressive for a relatively 'niche' series.

I think once the mainstream becomes more exposed to SMT, the series as a whole will boom in popularity. e.g., Yakuza, Monster Hunter,
Fire Emblem.
 
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Sgt.Asher

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In terms of being equal in budget, not really. In terms of actually being good, yes. There are much better jrpgs.
 

Captain Toad

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Dark Souls? Maybe that could be considered a AAA JRPG. I would buy a DS over a new FF every time now.
Still? When talking about the GENRE we call "JRPG", it can't be taken literal. A genre isn't defined by where a game is made. JRPG is a type of game that happens to be similar to RPG games that FIRST became popular from Japanese developers.

Dark Souls is NOT a JRPG (the unfortunately named genre), although it is an RPG that was made in Japan.

Western developers can make JRPGs. Japanese developers can make RPGs that are not JRPGs. Again, it's a genre, not literally RPGs made in one specific country.
 

Thabass

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Still? When talking about the GENRE we call "JRPG", it can't be taken literal. A genre isn't defined by where a game is made. JRPG is a type of game that happens to be similar to RPG games that FIRST became popular from Japanese developers.

Dark Souls is NOT a JRPG (the unfortunately named genre), although it is an RPG that was made in Japan.

Western developers can make JRPGs. Japanese developers can make RPGs that are not JRPGs. Again, it's a genre, not literally RPGs made in one specific country.


I'm curious then, what IS a JRPG in this mindset? Is it topics that the games cover? Style? Type of art? I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, I'm genuinely curious about how we define a JRPG in today's gaming world.
 

Captain Toad

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I'm curious then, what IS a JRPG in this mindset? Is it topics that the games cover? Style? Type of art? I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, I'm genuinely curious about how we define a JRPG in today's gaming world.

Fair question, but you could ask the same question about almost every genre. Is Portal a first-person shooter. It's first-person. You shoot. But, I wouldn't classify it as such.

Genres are difficult to define exactly, as there is so much bleeding over between genres. For JRPGs, we typically think of turn-based combat, but probably not exclusively.

I would consider Child of Light (Ubisoft) a JRPG, for example. If SquareEnix decided to have a western studio of theirs create Dragon Quest XII, it would still be a JRPG, assuming it follows the same formula laid out by previous games.
 
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Danjin44

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As much as Persona is getting more popular, it’s nowhere near close being as popular as Final Fantasy.

You don’t even need to have played any video games to know what’s Final Fantasy is.

But in my opinion this popularity is working against them. Now every mainline FF needs to have mass appeal, which is why we won’t ever see turn based combat in FF anymore.
 

Pagusas

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not in the JRPG space, but in the RPG space as a whole? Yeah, lots from CDPR, Bethesda and several others. Its basically Western RPG's vs Final Fantasy now.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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As much as Persona is getting more popular, it’s nowhere near close being as popular as Final Fantasy.

You don’t even need to have played any video games to know what’s Final Fantasy is.

But in my opinion this popularity is working against them. Now every mainline FF needs to have mass appeal, which is why we won’t ever see turn based combat in FF anymore.
Oh come on. It’s been 20 years since the last mainline turn-based FF game. I think the JRPG community needs to accept it and begin to heal. There are still tons of turn based JRPGs getting made just as there always were. They aren’t some oppressed minority being persecuted by the mainstream dudebros.
 
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Danjin44

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Oh come on. It’s been 20 years since the last mainline turn-based FF game. I think the JRPG community needs to accept it and begin to heal. There are still tons of turn based JRPGs getting made just as there always were. They aren’t some oppressed minority being persecuted by the mainstream dudebros.
Already accepted the fact we are not going to get turn based FF but at very least I want proper action RPG, I hated FFXV’s combat system but FFVIIR is going in right direction.
 
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salamanderjuice

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Fair question, but you could ask the same question about almost every genre. Is Portal a first-person shooter. It's first-person. You shoot. But, I wouldn't classify it as such.

Genres are difficult to define exactly, as there is so much bleeding over between genres. For JRPGs, we typically think of turn-based combat, but probably not exclusively.

I would consider Child of Light (Ubisoft) a JRPG, for example. If SquareEnix decided to have a western studio of theirs create Dragon Quest XII, it would still be a JRPG, assuming it follows the same formula laid out by previous games.
FFIX was developed in Hawaii and I think few would argue it's a WRPG.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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Already accepted the fact we are not going to get turn based FF but at very least I want proper action RPG, I hated FFXV’s combat system but FFVIIR is going in right direction.
Yeah XV’s was pretty crappy but I really enjoyed XII and XIII’s battle systems. I wouldn’t mind more of that. XV was just a mess all around.
 

Ladioss

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At least graphically speaking, Lunar was a pretty serious challenger for FF6 at that time.
Grandia was the Saturn's answer to PS1's FF7.

SMT. Specifically the Persons spin-off's. The 4th entry destroyed all the FF entries of the 7th generation critically, whilst the 5th entry sweeped the floor with FF 15 critically and only performed slightly worse financially. Mighty impressive for a relatively 'niche' series.

SMT, from the SFC to the PS1 era, had a really loyal following in Japan - especially among the occult maniacs subculture, fans of system-focused RPGs (like Saga), and female fans (typically, the demography who will be be branded 'fujoshi' many years later). Stories of SMT being one of the best-selling JRPG franchises date back to that time.

The series didn't enjoy the kind of runaway, global successs that Persona enjoy nowaday, but it already had a pretty big cultural and marketing impact back during the 90s, even if it's almost completely forgotten today.
 

Danjin44

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Yeah XV’s was pretty crappy but I really enjoyed XII and XIII’s battle systems. I wouldn’t mind more of that. XV was just a mess all around.
I have lots of problem with FFXIII but surprisingly I actually enjoy the core combat system in that game.
 

Dolomite

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I feel like most Jrpgs honestly aren't getting a triple A budget. FF is a big fish in a garden pond
 

Danjin44

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I feel like most Jrpgs honestly aren't getting a triple A budget. FF is a big fish in a garden pond
The direction is FF is going I'm actually happy about that. Games like DQ and SMT can still have their turn based combat without try to have mass appeal. Having bigger budget basically means you have to make less risky choice.
 
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Do people here realize the "Top Tier AAA" space (games with 30 million+ budget and sales expectations of over 5 million units) is one ocuppied by no more than 10 (yes only 10) companies in all of gaming?

EA
Ubisoft
Activision
Sony
Capcom
Rockstar
Bethesda
Square-Enix
Microsoft
CDPR

Top tier AAA games only come from studios within these 10 companies. Bandai Namco, Tecmo, Sega or any other Japanese company don't produce Top tier AAA.games. Am I missing some companies?
 
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FStubbs

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Persona 5 is quite clearly AAA.
I don't know if that's true or not. I think Persona 5 is a AA game with great art direction. Atlus doesn't really have the budget for actual AAA games.

For those saying Falcom, Falcom's games are definitely AA at best.
 
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FStubbs

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Do people here realize the "Top Tier AAA" space (games with 40 million+ budget and sales expectations of over 5 million units) is one ocuppied by no more than 10 (yes only 10) companies in all of gaming?

EA
Ubisoft
Activision
Sony
Capcom
Rockstar
Bethesda
Square-Enix
Microsoft
CDPR

Top tier AAA games only come from studios within these 10 companies. Bandai Namco, Tecmo, Sega or any other Japanese company don't produce Top tier AAA.games. Am I missing some companies?
I'd argue the Ninja Gaiden games and Metal Gear Solid 4 and 5 were AAA when they were made. Though they aren't jRPGs so not part of the discussion.
 
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I'd argue the Ninja Gaiden games and Metal Gear Solid 4 and 5 were AAA when they were made. Though they aren't jRPGs so not part of the discussion.
Oh sure. But that's in the *past*. In recent years they've had zero AAA games, and they are out of the big leagues.
 
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FStubbs

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Oh come on. It’s been 20 years since the last mainline turn-based FF game. I think the JRPG community needs to accept it and begin to heal. There are still tons of turn based JRPGs getting made just as there always were. They aren’t some oppressed minority being persecuted by the mainstream dudebros.
Square still makes Turn based Final Fantasy games. They just carry the "Bravely Default" or "Octopath" name now.
 

SlimeGooGoo

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Dark Souls is NOT a JRPG (the unfortunately named genre), although it is an RPG that was made in Japan.
Dark Souls is not a JRPG and it's also not an RPG

For a game to be an RPG, player skill must have little influence in the outcome of the events, and instead character skill is what matters.
Final Fantasy is an RPG. So is Baldur's Gate. Both of them have events (combat) which result depends on character skill.

You can't beat Final Fantasy with characters on Level 1.
You can beat Dark Souls with a Level 1 character (because what matters is player skill)

The "J" in JRPG only refers to the game having some resemblance to an anime or manga (shounen usually).
That's it.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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Square still makes Turn based Final Fantasy games. They just carry the "Bravely Default" or "Octopath" name now.
Yup, plus Worlds of Final Fantasy

turn based JRPGs are still as common as they’ve ever been. Mainline FF is the only really major series that abandoned it. And there have been only 4 of those (including FF7 Remake but excluding the MMOs) in the last 20 years, so I don’t get why so much of the JRPG fandom still acts like this some huge indignity to turn-based gaming.

Heck, even in this “post-turn-based FF” era the # of turn-based FF spin-offs/remakes probably still outnumber the real time combat ones.
 
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Danjin44

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a game to be an RPG, player skill must have little influence in the outcome of the events, and instead character skill is what matters.
In Dark Souls/Bloodborne your states is very important as much as your skill, which pretty much makes it RPG.
 

MvCSpiderman

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There are several AAA JRPG after FF6... PS1 had dozen of it.
Lol?

If you think that Dragon Quest is the only AAA game in that list, then we should agree to disagree right now.
By definition it's the only one.

I think OP needs to give a clear definition of what he wants to call AAA if he wants to have a productive back-and-forth, here.
The actual definition that exists since 2 gens ago and not the various changing opinions?

None of this makes any sense. FF and Dragon quest have been called JRPGs since the 90s. Never has the term CRPG and cRPG been used. FF7 was specifically called a JRPG on its original release in 97. I think you just want to be obtuse.....I'm out.

You're wrong and apparently can't read since I pointed out the 90s in the post. Your confusing yourself into thinking I didn't point that out.

The term "japanese-style" was used back then commonly but Jrpg was not a common term as it is now.

But the term Jrpg became standard in the early 2000s.

Computer rpgs were always called computer rpgs until Wrpg became standard.

This is very simple.