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Halo Infinite's lack of updates is forcing its biggest streamers to turn to other games (PCGamer)

FireFly

Member
They were porting a 5yr old xbox one game though. Nothing to do with the engines. It's not 12 different engines, some of which had PC releases anyway. It's one xbox one game.

First 4 games staggered across 7 months. What stopped them from releasing all of them on the 7th month all at once then? Strategy. Their GaaS subscription plan.

I mean you can't honestly believe they were struggling with already remastered engines for 5 years and they miraculously completed in chronological order within those 7 months.

"The main focus for MCC's past year has been the PC releases, which have brought a new title to the collection every few months since Reach's launch in late 2019. While the primary aim is to get the games out there and stable—a formidable task that can also introduce new problems—each release also presents an opportunity to fix existing issues.

"That has resulted, Fahrny says, in a package built across 12 different game engines, most of them iterations on Bungie's "Blam!" tech which has barely been used beyond the series. Fahrny, who joined 343 in late 2018 to help bring the MCC to PC, has learned from experience that potential setbacks and dead ends are lurking just under the surface."

"We have a mountain of tech debt, we always have for MCC," Fahrny says. "We've added some on top of that. One of the things that we've done with Saber over the last six months is, as features have come online, we try to spin people off into a strike team that specifically is going back through and trying to pinpoint those issues. So basically, on PC with each title launch we're not only just releasing the game, we're trying [to fix] community related issues, maybe some old legacy issues that we can fix that are low risk, and get this mountain of tech debt down."


For every title in the MCC, 343 has a list of bugs and feature requests that can stretch back over a decade. Some issues were present in Bungie's original releases, some come from the MCC porting work, and others came in-between. "I know a lot of people are still unhappy with the original Gearbox port," Fahrny notes, nodding to the PC version of the first Halo that I played as a teen and which also serves as the basis for the MCC's version. "I do want to go back and do as much as we can there at some point, but right now with our current priorities, I can't really open that door because it will completely destabilize the project."


 
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HTK

Member
the multiplayer is fun, there just isn't enough maps or reason to keep playing, sadly

343 stinks
I don't understand how they didn't have more maps considering that game has been in development for 6-7 years or something crazy. Competition has double the maps in shorter period of time than 343 has produced.
 

Banjo64

Gold Member
Rare seems to be very allergic to their Ips. They can work on any of these ips. Yet they try to make something like Everwild.
That’s their direction as a studio. They don’t want to work on 3D platformers, or their old IP. That’s their prerogative.

There is no evidence that they have the ability to make those games anymore. Only Gregg Mayles remains from the old crew. I’d rather have nothing than a husk of a game or a cheap nostalgia cash grab.

Personally, I have made peace with that.

I now look to other studios to pick up the mantle, like Playtonic and Gears for Breakfast, who have both done a fantastic job with their recent games.
 

Three

Member
"The main focus for MCC's past year has been the PC releases, which have brought a new title to the collection every few months since Reach's launch in late 2019. While the primary aim is to get the games out there and stable—a formidable task that can also introduce new problems—each release also presents an opportunity to fix existing issues.

"That has resulted, Fahrny says, in a package built across 12 different game engines, most of them iterations on Bungie's "Blam!" tech which has barely been used beyond the series. Fahrny, who joined 343 in late 2018 to help bring the MCC to PC, has learned from experience that potential setbacks and dead ends are lurking just under the surface."

"We have a mountain of tech debt, we always have for MCC," Fahrny says. "We've added some on top of that. One of the things that we've done with Saber over the last six months is, as features have come online, we try to spin people off into a strike team that specifically is going back through and trying to pinpoint those issues. So basically, on PC with each title launch we're not only just releasing the game, we're trying [to fix] community related issues, maybe some old legacy issues that we can fix that are low risk, and get this mountain of tech debt down."


For every title in the MCC, 343 has a list of bugs and feature requests that can stretch back over a decade. Some issues were present in Bungie's original releases, some come from the MCC porting work, and others came in-between. "I know a lot of people are still unhappy with the original Gearbox port," Fahrny notes, nodding to the PC version of the first Halo that I played as a teen and which also serves as the basis for the MCC's version. "I do want to go back and do as much as we can there at some point, but right now with our current priorities, I can't really open that door because it will completely destabilize the project."


This article is about Halo dev as a whole though and it's a bit hyperbolic at times discussing what everyone faces in general development. There aren't 12 different engines for 5 games all of which are based on the same Blam engine anyway.

The reason they released a game every few months isn't because they struggled to create a single package. they could have just released that year when they were all done. They actively chose to release piecemeal in Halo storyline chronological order because of the subscription strategy. It made sense to release piecemeal like that and keep people subscribed by trickle feeding them.
 

FireFly

Member
This article is about Halo dev as a whole though and it's a bit hyperbolic at times discussing what everyone faces in general development. There aren't 12 different engines for 5 games all of which are based on the same Blam engine anyway.

The reason they released a game every few months isn't because they struggled to create a single package. they could have just released that year when they were all done. They actively chose to release piecemeal in Halo storyline chronological order because of the subscription strategy. It made sense to release piecemeal like that and keep people subscribed by trickle feeding them.
Apart from the first paragraph, the bits I quoted were specifically about the PC release.

But, is it hyperbolic given the dumpster fire of a launch of MCC? And the fact that it took several years to get the technology in place where it was stable? Is it hyperbolic given that 5 years after the launch of Halo 5, the Slipspace Engine still wasn't in a shippable state? And that according to Infinite's multiplayer designer, the engine is still holding up their plans? Or the fact that the Glassdoor reviews are full of employees complaining about tech debt and an overreliance on contractors?

Maybe you are right about 343's release strategy, but given 343's frankly horrendous record of dealing with technology, it's the one I would have chosen. The more you release at once, the more risk there is, and the less leeway there is to adjust. In fact I think MCC's more positive reception on the PC comes from the fact it was treated as a kind of "Early Access" title, and issues could be gradually worked out over time.
 
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Codes 208

Member
It's really fun and I like playing it?

The doom and gloom is silly.
i dont find it silly to call out legitimate complaints. The game launched with only a handful of maps, melee is often broken because of desync issues, weapon balance does need tweaking, theres only a handful of different modes (hell when it first released your options were social action, ranked action sack and btb. Thats it. Three fucking options)

And dont even get me started on the overpriced store colors/armor that should have been in the game by default and the progression was and still is random ass nonsense (kill three people with the ball in one match of oddball. Think of that, on top of needing the rng gods to give you the chance to play on that mode, since you cant select it outright, you have to actively try to melee people with the ball, which is now a two-shot kill instead of a one shot mind you, and thats just one example. And you do all these challenges for what? A weekly repeat emblem, jee thanks 343!)

The campaign is excellent however. I have very few minor nit picks but thats about it.
 
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DarkMage619

Member
I don't understand how they didn't have more maps considering that game has been in development for 6-7 years or something crazy. Competition has double the maps in shorter period of time than 343 has produced.
Can you give an example of a game that has offered more features than Halo Infinite has with a free to play multi-player mode and single player campaign in a shorter period of time? I want to put this in perspective.
 
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STARSBarry

Gold Member
Can you give an example of a game that has offered more features than Halo Infinite has with a free to play multi-player mode and single player campaign in a shorter period of time? I want to put this in perspective.

Campaign isnt free... you have to pay for it, or use gamepass in which if you stop paying you lose access...

Making the multiplayer free technically devalues the campaign too as Microsoft are saying you need to pay £50 for just the campaign, after all the multiplayer is not included as part of that cost.
 
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iHaunter

Member
When I was talking about this shit, I got slammed for stating FUD, and being a fanboy. When I genuinely disliked how the game was and how little progress there had been.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Campaign isnt free... you have to pay for it, or use gamepass in which if you stop paying you lose access...
I specifically was talking about the multi-player mode. I am well aware the campaign costs money. I am just hearing lots of commentary about the game and I wanted to see the other titles that are doing more than Halo Infinite has in less time and presumably less money as well. There has to be a clear example since people consider Halo Infinite to be a failure.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
MS at this point, should fire 343i leaders. They are incapable of utilizing MS biggest mascot, and ruining to the ground.
They virtue signaled Bonnie with awards on stage right after they were receiving flak for the initial reveal and the diversity talk at 343.
 
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HTK

Member
Can you give an example of a game that has offered more features than Halo Infinite has with a free to play multi-player mode and single player campaign in a shorter period of time? I want to put this in perspective.
Oh I see, I hope you're not hiding behind the free-to-play business model. Fact is 10 maps (arena maps at that) is just not acceptable for a game that's been in development for 6/7 years. CoD has a 3 year development and Vanguard just gave you 20 maps, single player and zombies.

I can pretty much say any Call of Duty of the past with a 3 year dev cycle has delivered more than 10+ maps along with SP and Zombies or Zombies equivalent.

The Last of Us a single player oriented game, had a tacked on Multiplayer "Factions" and it launched with 7 maps. Actually they were really good too.
Battlefield 1 launched with 9 maps, that are much larger than anything Halo has along with a Single Player.
Battlefield 4 launched with 10 maps, along with a single player. Again BF maps are crazy in scale and complexity but they did it.

I don't know, just seems odd that a studio as big as 343 has all this time and they managed to release with only 10 maps with like half of them being super small arena maps. Maybe I'm the crazy one.
 

LordCBH

Member
Infinite has a lot going for it. A solid gameplay loop being the biggest.

But it’s the most feature incomplete Halo game released. No Forge, which was basically standardized like 15 years ago. No co-op, which was the standard since CE. Barely any modes.

I’m not sure why they can’t release a game that’s the full package AND good. Halo 5 was bad and missing core features. Master Chief Collection was completely broken for years. Infinite. Good gameplay, but woefully incomplete AFTER a year delay. The one closest to the holy Trinity of “good and feature complete” was 4, and it had its own issues. But I’d take another 4 over 5 and Infinite to be honest.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
MS at this point, should fire 343i leaders. They are incapable of utilizing MS biggest mascot, and ruining to the ground.

they are at least 2 games too late if not 3.

you might not know this, but 343i leaders actually threw out an early Prototype of Halo 4 because it felt "too much like Halo"... at that point they should all have been fired on the spot
 
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DarkMage619

Member
Oh I see, I hope you're not hiding behind the free-to-play business model. Fact is 10 maps (arena maps at that) is just not acceptable for a game that's been in development for 6/7 years. CoD has a 3 year development and Vanguard just gave you 20 maps, single player and zombies.

I can pretty much say any Call of Duty of the past with a 3 year dev cycle has delivered more than 10+ maps along with SP and Zombies or Zombies equivalent.

The Last of Us a single player oriented game, had a tacked on Multiplayer "Factions" and it launched with 7 maps. Actually they were really good too.
Battlefield 1 launched with 9 maps, that are much larger than anything Halo has along with a Single Player.
Battlefield 4 launched with 10 maps, along with a single player. Again BF maps are crazy in scale and complexity but they did it.

I don't know, just seems odd that a studio as big as 343 has all this time and they managed to release with only 10 maps with like half of them being super small arena maps. Maybe I'm the crazy one.
I was just looking to put the title in perspective. I don't think any of the games you mentioned have free to play modes at all right? 343i clearly has issues getting games out quickly but it doesn't look like there are any games out right now doing the same things HI is doing for the same price point. Even previously released Halo games aren't doing the same things HI is. There should be more updates coming out and I hoping they will add more content to the game especially the co-op and forge modes that should have been there from the start.
 

01011001

Gold Member
I specifically was talking about the multi-player mode. I am well aware the campaign costs money. I am just hearing lots of commentary about the game and I wanted to see the other titles that are doing more than Halo Infinite has in less time and presumably less money as well. There has to be a clear example since people consider Halo Infinite to be a failure.

the game isn't free 2 play. if you look at it like that then it's even more of a fuck you to players as before you got a campaign + tons of multiplayer modes, unlockables and maps for 60€... now you get ONLY the Campaign for the same price, that's even worse.

free 2 play is not a get out of jail free card. the hame is dogshit, end of story, doesn't matter how much what aspects of it cost. and going free 2 play in the first place was a shit decision
 
How gaas would've really worked for infinite , a map a month either new or remake from mcc , coop after 2 months of launch , 2 months later forge , than a couple of months later some battle royale type kind of mode ,then some spec ops kind of stuff and so on and so forth
The gameplay is ace no doubt about it but the content , the maps are just not enough
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Imagine fucking up Halo.

HALO.

Good lord, the incompetence. How are people not fired at this point. The fuck are you doing, MS?
 

HTK

Member
I was just looking to put the title in perspective. I don't think any of the games you mentioned have free to play modes at all right? 343i clearly has issues getting games out quickly but it doesn't look like there are any games out right now doing the same things HI is doing for the same price point. Even previously released Halo games aren't doing the same things HI is. There should be more updates coming out and I hoping they will add more content to the game especially the co-op and forge modes that should have been there from the start.
No, none of them have free to play modes.

Even Halo Infinite at one point was not going to be free to play up until Microsoft changed their strategies. That game if it weren't for Microsoft would have been a paid product with mediocre content when compared to how many years they've been developing it.

Even as a free to play game, the amount of maps in comparison to how many years it's been in development is still rather disappointing. These are "Arena" styled maps, you still need a strong foundation even as a Free to Play game otherwise folks will abandon ship, which seems to be happening with HI at the moment.

I'd like to see that franchise and that community do well.
 

Halo is Back

Gold Member
Is it really just 343i leadership to blame, though? I mean, Microsoft is the publisher; they're the ones who had the power to dictate the model for the game business-wise, just like Sony with GT7's MTX.
Sure, it's not entirely their fault but how many games have 343 dropped the ball on?? Let's see, Halo 4, Halo 5, MCC, and Infinite. Halo wars 2 came out on the One and it was pretty good. Let's also not forget how great the Bungie games were. The point being, 343 has had plenty of time and chances to prove thier worth yet they keep finding ways to fuck things up. At least MS allowed them to delay the game a full year from the release of the Series X.

The biggest thing MS is guilty of is not finding another studio/better talent for the Halo franchise. Ultimately, MS is responsible for the IP and they have mishandled it. Still, 343 is the one actually making the games. Halo has been in the hands of better developers and produced better results.
 
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Captiosus

Gold Member
I don't know, just seems odd that a studio as big as 343 has all this time and they managed to release with only 10 maps with like half of them being super small arena maps.
Not to mention most of the maps are built on the same three lane foundation so they end up feeling the exact same, just with different decor. There are a couple exceptions like Launch Site. Even BTB is built the same way, except the maps are stretched out with bases at each end, and it's painfully obvious because vehicles really suck to use in Infinite's BTB maps. Areas are too tight, too constricted.

After a while of playing, I am convinced Aquarius and Streets are the same map, just with different texture assets.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
I specifically was talking about the multi-player mode. I am well aware the campaign costs money. I am just hearing lots of commentary about the game and I wanted to see the other titles that are doing more than Halo Infinite has in less time and presumably less money as well. There has to be a clear example since people consider Halo Infinite to be a failure.

I'm pointing out it's disingenuous to ask for a game that's free 2 play that delivers a campaign and multiplayer content at launch when Halo itself does not deliver that for free.

You need to compare Halo's Free 2 Play Multiplayer to other free 2 play multiplayers, and compare Halo's Campaign to things like Doom Eternal, Farcry or Ion Fury which are paid.

This is where "INB4FREETOPLAYCANNOTCRITICISE" comes from, except of course you can.
 
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I don’t get this GaaS stuff. What did people play for in past games if there were no mtx and bling? Is the gameplay insufficient and the true carrot being the accumulation of worthless digital junk?!?

Think of it like this.

Imagine telling kids to play Pong (1972) back in 2001 instead of Halo CE? Those 30 years ravaged Pong.



Halo Infinite is, to a lesser degree, todays Pong. Multiplayer games have advanced significantly in the past 5 years, let alone the past 20. The only plausible explanation for the Halo Infinite defense force is that some older people lock on to their favorite thing and blame everything else for its failures. Pong with GAAS trappings is still just Pong.
 
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DarkMage619

Member
I'm pointing out it's disingenuous to ask for a game that's free 2 play that delivers a campaign and multiplayer content at launch when Halo itself does not deliver that for free.

You need to compare Halo's Free 2 Play Multiplayer to other free 2 play multiplayers, and compare Halo's Campaign to things like Doom Eternal, Farcry or Ion Fury.
I also think it's disingenuous to hold HI to a standard no other title offers including previously released Halo games. It is perfectly reasonable to want more from HI, I certainly do, but if you can't point to other titles doing more for less then it really isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Clearly 343i needs better project management but if we look at other MS titles like Sea of Thieves it will get there even if it isn't as fast as we'd like. It seems to me that the most important thing is good core gameplay. More modes and features can always be added bad gameplay just stays that way. I'd like to see how season 2 looks.

the game isn't free 2 play. if you look at it like that then it's even more of a fuck you to players as before you got a campaign + tons of multiplayer modes, unlockables and maps for 60€... now you get ONLY the Campaign for the same price, that's even worse.

free 2 play is not a get out of jail free card. the hame is dogshit, end of story, doesn't matter how much what aspects of it cost. and going free 2 play in the first place was a shit decision
I think that's pretty hyperbolic. This game needs improvements and I'm pretty sure they are coming but it's hardly crap it just needs more content.
 

twilo99

Member
I said it when it launched, if they don't do a BR mode the game will be dead withing a year or less...

All you have to do is look at Modern Warfare, Cold War, and now Vanguard to see what happens to multiplayer games compared to a BR version, in this case Warzone...
 

MScarpa

Member
I have a question. Would it be a good idea to reinvent Halo. Like how God Of War changed things up. I'm not comparing the 2 so don't get cranky, but maybe making it different. So single player? And just have 343 do the online F2P?
 

Hezekiah

Member
What it does highlight was how ludicrous their ten year strategy was. They don't have the fundamentals completed even now, never mind keeping things going for that kind of timespan.

In less than six months interest is fading, and they're so slow bringing out new content that it looks terminal.

Microsoft will surely turn its attention to CoD and the next Doom/Quake, both of which are a different types of FPS, but are better games. Halo looks like a relic in comparison.
 

01011001

Gold Member
I have a question. Would it be a good idea to reinvent Halo. Like how God Of War changed things up. I'm not comparing the 2 so don't get cranky, but maybe making it different. So single player? And just have 343 do the online F2P?

I don't think it would be no. the issue is that Halo is defined by its gameplay, which is why 343 Industries straying too far from what made Halo what it is, is a huge issue.

Halo has a very clearly outlined gameplay structure (I should say "had" since 343 tried everything in their power to shit on that structure over the years)
this gameplay in today's landscape would actually make it feel even more special than back in the day, since arena shooters like it are rare as hell these days.

changing Halo's core gameplay means it's not Halo anymore.

the real issue is that 343i has no idea how to modernise Halo without just copying elements from other games. back in the day it was Halo that other shooters copied elements from not the other way around.
so now Halo has Sprint and grabbing onto ledges like Call of Duty, not because it makes Halo better but because it's what mainstream shooters do.

just like Halo 4 had unlockable weapons and perks with custom loadouts you spawn with and killstreaks... because Call of Duty was all the rage, so 343 copied CoD

or when Halo 5 implemented thrusters, ADS for all weapons and hovering in the air, at a time where Titanfall and CoD Advanced Warfare did just this as well... it was trendy and so 343 copied it.

343i has noone there that has either the spine or the talent, or both, to actually make Halo feel like Halo and innovate at the same time, without copying other games.
they think a Shooter without sprint, climbing ledges and sliding won't sell (not true as evidenced by Valorant and Overwatch) and so they force them into Halo thinking that's enough to entice players to play it.

meanwhile they neglect innovation and their core audience in the name if chasing trends.



so IMO, to truly make Halo popular again, it has to feel like it's truly unique again, and being a modern, polished, AAA rendition of the formula perfected by Halo 3 would IMO be the way to go.
make things feel more modern and acknowledge where they need to improve it.
 

chris121580

Member
It's such a shame too because the gameplay is so good. I had a blast with multiplayer for hours and hours but then eventually bounced off of it because I'd completed the battle pass. They've given no incentive to come back to it. Hopefully they're able to turn it around
 
Sure, it's not entirely their fault but how many games have 343 dropped the ball on?? Let's see, Halo 4, Halo 5, MCC, and Infinite. Halo wars 2 came out on the One and it was pretty good. Let's also not forget how great the Bungie games were. The point being, 343 has had plenty of time and chances to prove thier worth yet they keep finding ways to fuck things up. At least MS allowed them to delay the game a full year from the release of the Series X.

The biggest thing MS is guilty of is not finding another studio/better talent for the Halo franchise. Ultimately, MS is responsible for the IP and they have mishandled it. Still, 343 is the one actually making the games. Halo has been in the hands of better developers and produced better results.

I still think it's an upper management problem, at least at 343i. The actual environment artists, character artists, modelers, etc. are talented, and we've seen Halo games with better visuals (in terms of fidelity and assets, if not necessarily IQ since they were lower resolution) in games like Halo 5.

But the bulk of the team are only going to be capable of so much if the upper management isn't doing its job properly, or if the game has been rebooted internally a handful of times rendering older work useless. I would be very interested in a true, honest making-of for HI going into its full development history, because if the game started development after Halo 5, there's no way it was originally conceived as a F2P game and I bet the team probably didn't originally have PC as part of the launch platform rollout, either.

Because all the other Halo games were console-only to start, then got PC ports a bit later. I'm almost questioning if Halo Infinite was planned to originally be an Xbox Series game at all, and maybe it was going to be more of a traditional Halo game. I mean, I don't see how the team looks at the complaints across 4, 5, and MCC, and decide the answer was to gut out most of the usual content & modes, break up the SP and MP, and make the game F2P. Even certain game mechanics I would not be surprised, if they were stripped out after the year delay due to changes in leadership.

I also think it's disingenuous to hold HI to a standard no other title offers including previously released Halo games. It is perfectly reasonable to want more from HI, I certainly do, but if you can't point to other titles doing more for less then it really isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Clearly 343i needs better project management but if we look at other MS titles like Sea of Thieves it will get there even if it isn't as fast as we'd like. It seems to me that the most important thing is good core gameplay. More modes and features can always be added bad gameplay just stays that way. I'd like to see how season 2 looks.

That's the embarrassing part: MS's marquee IP is getting shown up by a new, smaller IP from Rare. With the lessons learned from SoT, you'd think 343i would've made sure to avoid those mistakes with Halo Infinite, but they made arguably even bigger mistakes out of the gate.

And 343i have already pissed off Halo fans multiple times over the years, I don't think they could've afforded another lukewarm opening but they've somehow achieved that. The content they promised for Season 2 won't be enough to revitalize the game; they're going to need a lot more maps, new guns, and at least try flighting an early version of Forge for Season 2 to be successful.

Otherwise with what they've announced, they'll be very small blips that might garner some interest for a few days, but then it'll continue on the trajectory it's been on for the past several weeks. By the time they get to Season 3, it will probably be too late to salvage anything, if that's the point where they want to introduce Forge, campaign co-op, new campaign story content or even a BR mode.

so IMO, to truly make Halo popular again, it has to feel like it's truly unique again, and being a modern, polished, AAA rendition of the formula perfected by Halo 3 would IMO be the way to go.
make things feel more modern and acknowledge where they need to improve it.

Yeah, this is ultimately the biggest problem aside from the MTX and battle progression issues. It's like the team got too scared to honor the traditional Halo experience and build on it organically. They got the gunplay right (at least that's what everyone else says), but almost all the core classic modes are gone, there's essentially nothing else to replace them, many weapons are missing, even the campaign kind of 180s certain things from Halo 5 story (and Halo 5 did the same thing to Halo 4).

Halo Infinite just seems like it has a really weak foundation, at least until they get the other content in there. And hopefully, add some innovations to those old staples.
 

ZehDon

Member
... The only plausible explanation for the Halo Infinite defense force is that some older people lock on to their favorite thing and blame everything else for its failures. Pong with GAAS trappings is still just Pong.
You've been pushing this narrative in multiple threads. First, Halo Infinite was Goldeneye 007. Now, Halo Infinite is Pong. I've corrected you multiple times on this, and it's getting old.

Halo Infinite is fun to play. Hence, you know, the massive word of mouth push at the game's launch. People actually do really enjoy Halo Infinite. So, why is it basically dead? Could the reason for Halo Infinite's failure be - and I'm just spit balling here - but it could be that maybe, just maybe, the fact that: the game doesn't fucking work, the game launched with the smallest amount of content in Halo history, the developers have taken 7 months to release any new content at all, the monetisation system is predatory, the progression system is predatory, and the developers are clearly, woefully, painfully, mind-numbingly incompetent?

Please, you clearly don't know anything about what you're taking about. Please, just stop.
 
But not much probably

Well, less people streaming definitely hurts discoverability statistics, which in turn hurts WOM which means less players. Less players means less payers (for MTX). Which basically means less money.

And the streamers, and those very active on social media who play these games, tend to be the whales/big spenders. Way more than the individual casual. And that gets compounded by the fact Halo Infinite was already mostly appealing to hardcore/core fans in the community anyway from the jump, which would include the whales.
 
You've been pushing this narrative in multiple threads. First, Halo Infinite was Goldeneye 007. Now, Halo Infinite is Pong. I've corrected you multiple times on this, and it's getting old.

Halo Infinite is fun to play. Hence, you know, the massive word of mouth push at the game's launch. People actually do really enjoy Halo Infinite. So, why is it basically dead? Could the reason for Halo Infinite's failure be - and I'm just spit balling here - but it could be that maybe, just maybe, the fact that: the game doesn't fucking work, the game launched with the smallest amount of content in Halo history, the developers have taken 7 months to release any new content at all, the monetisation system is predatory, the progression system is predatory, and the developers are clearly, woefully, painfully, mind-numbingly incompetent?

Please, you clearly don't know anything about what you're taking about. Please, just stop.

All the reasons you listed for Halo Infinites poor engagement statistics do matter. They just don't matter as much as you make them seem.

Think about this.

When Halo was an industry leader in the early 00's, the market was filled with similar playing multiplayer titles. It was an era of "**** around for 20 seconds, die, respawn, repeat, look at scoreboard at the end of a 10 minute match, swear at teammates+opponents in lobby while you wait for next match. " Those games were everywhere back then and Halo was the best of the bunch.

Now look at todays top games. There are no similar titles around. The entire market has progressed out of that formula. Traditional CoD is the last of Halos peers and that game is trending downwards faster than Halo (thanks to Warzone). After traditional CoD multiplayer, what's the next most popular title that plays with that Formula? Overwatch? Battlefront II?

Doesn't that tell you something?

The formula has lost relevance in the market. It was genius decision making for 343i to make a Motown album in 1978 when everyone wanted Disco.
 
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I don’t get this GaaS stuff. What did people play for in past games if there were no mtx and bling? Is the gameplay insufficient and the true carrot being the accumulation of worthless digital junk?!?

Luke Smith said it best. Two men enter, the better man leaves. That's Halo.

I don't need any MTX or progression but games that work is paramount. MCC is currently so broken you cannot even match a full 4v4 game two games in a row. Literally broken ass game, I've been trying to play it for 10+ games a day for 5 days like this now. It's fucked.

Infinite, go in a BTB team and have fireteam mates get booted mid game and have to restart the game to then wait to join again. It's happened a number of times in our parties.

We cannot select only Australian servers, we're forced to always select multiple server regions. The closest to other regions to Australia are over 6,000Kms away. Fucking incompetence at 343 to not allow Aussies and Kiwis to select their core regions only, across both MCC and Infinite. I've reported it a number of times in their forums and feedback systems/insider.

None of this has anything to do with MTX or progression or whether it's free to play or not. The games are broken messes. I've reached the point I don't even want to post replies about Halo anymore nor am I part of the Insider bullshit anymore either. What an absolute giant shit 343 has dumped on Halo for 10 years. The games are not AAA, not even close.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
I don’t get this GaaS stuff. What did people play for in past games if there were no mtx and bling? Is the gameplay insufficient and the true carrot being the accumulation of worthless digital junk?!?

In the case of Halo Infinite it is both really... the game has nothing, no progression, no modes, no maps, no working custom games, no working anything really... even the store stuff you can buy is boring as fuck. the netcode is so bad that people are able to kill eachother by meleeing each other from behind... SIMULTANIOUSLY, so it's not working right either.

the gameplay is boring as FUCK, with Halo staples like grenade jumps gone, player collision is gone too, both of these things gone means a lot of Halo's spirit is gone too.
fan favorite modes are just not there, not even in the broken custom games, so people are stuck playing Slayer over and over or play the 5 objective modes there are in a random playlist.

it's just a shit game, has nothing to do with GaaS, but the GaaS aspects are shit too. so it's a lose lose situation really
 
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ZehDon

Member
...Doesn't that tell you something?...
Your entire point is: Halo isn't the same as everything else, this is why it failed. This is self-evidently unintelligent thinking. If you need this explained to you on the internet, then you're beyond helping.

On point, you're entirely unable to demonstrate any aspect of your inane ramblings, and resort to regurgitating the same tired "metaphors" without justifying a single one of them, praying that sheer repetition wears down people until they just submit.
"You see, Halo is Goldeneye 007".
"You see, Halo is actually Pong"
"You see, Halo is really MoTown".

Wrong. Halo is... just Halo. That's why 20 million people turned out - to see if "Halo was back". And, for the litany of reasons that has been explained in paragraph after paragraph, no one was able to find the answer, because 343i is the worst AAA developer in the industry and couldn't launch a finished game. Customs, Co-op, Firefight, Forge, diverse playlists, a meaningful Campaign - none of the things that actually define the Halo experience were in the game for people to find. They walked away because 343i thought that four maps, four modes, and predatory monetisation was enough in 2022... because that's what passes for a game in 2022. Halo Infinite failed because it is the same as everything else in 2022, when all everyone wanted was... just Halo.
 
Your entire point is: Halo isn't the same as everything else, this is why it failed.

That's not my point at all.

I've gone more in depth to Halo's shortcomings elsewhere. To summarize...

It's overly repetitive.
It's a terrible social experience.
It doesn't cater to different playstyles.
It doesn't create water cooler moments/drama.
Losing isn't enjoyable.

A multiplayer game that suffers from those 5 weaknesses is what we call a bad multiplayer game by modern standards. So in the same way we say "God of War 2018 is a great game partly due to it's story", we can now confidently say todays best multiplayer games are great because they facilitate unique, drama filled experiences between players.

The rest of your post fails to address my other point as well. That being...

When Halo was an industry leader, the market was filled with other successful multiplayer games that fit within its genre. Think Perfect Dark, TimeSplitters, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, traditional CoD, Gears of War etc...

The "run around and slap eachother for 10 minutes" genre was booming.

Today, that genre is absent at the top. Why? Because bad game design doesn't compete in the multiplayer market.

I don't view Halo Infinite as a Halo game. I view it as a representative of a genre that's long past its expiration date. The market no longer allows such a low standard to succeed at its previous heights because the medium has advanced over the last 20 years.

Care to address that point?
 

ZehDon

Member
That's not my point at all.

... When Halo was an industry leader, the market was filled with other successful multiplayer games that fit within its genre... Today, that genre is absent at the top...
Sounds like it's exactly your point to me. And it's as wrong now as it was the first time you posted it. Unless you have anything else to add, I'll just have to continue to point out you're wrong whenever you post on this topic.
 
I can just image the steamers saying, “you’ve forced me to do this 343!” with their stuck up, entitled attitudes.

Game sucks, though.
 
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