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GT7 will require online connection to prevent cheating (same at GT:S)

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NickFire

Member
Ah yes, because the possibility of a small chance of cheaters is more important than the millions of people who don’t have access to constant internet, strong internet connections, people who travel, and people who simply don’t give a shit and want to play single player?

Literally most of the world doesn’t have good internet infrastructure. This is the world now. Cannot believe people still promote anti-consumer decisions.
Small chance of cheaters?

Millions of people who don't have good internet but are ready to buy GT7?

How do I post that dozens of us meme?
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Small chance of cheaters?

Millions of people who don't have good internet but are ready to buy GT7?

How do I post that dozens of us meme?

How often did you run into cheaters during GT5 And 6? How about Sport? The Forza series? Burnout? Need for Speed? Project Cars? The very small chance you did, you think the trade off of having forced online for SP is acceptable?

And yes, millions don’t have constantly stable internet access, but have the money to buy consoles and games. They aren’t mutually exclusive. Plenty of folks also travel. Hell, I do at last every other week for my job. I like to take a console and a game with me. I used to do this with GT1 and 2 on PS1 and GT 3 and 4 on PS2. Would like to do the same with GT7, but feasibly I can’t thanks to many of the places I travel to either having unstable internet or no internet access. I am not alone in this.
 

Kenneth Haight

Gold Member
How often did you run into cheaters during GT5 And 6? How about Sport? The Forza series? Burnout? Need for Speed? Project Cars? The very small chance you did, you think the trade off of having forced online for SP is acceptable?

And yes, millions don’t have constantly stable internet access, but have the money to buy consoles and games. They aren’t mutually exclusive. Plenty of folks also travel. Hell, I do at last every other week for my job. I like to take a console and a game with me. I used to do this with GT1 and 2 on PS1 and GT 3 and 4 on PS2. Would like to do the same with GT7, but feasibly I can’t thanks to many of the places I travel to either having unstable internet or no internet access. I am not alone in this.

I feel for you, having to haul that PS5 around must be a bitch, you must be jacked!

It is not something I am praising, I wish the single player and multiplayer could be separated somehow and I don't like this practice but in the grand scheme of things I do not imagine it will affect too many people.
 

sn0man

Member
In the end, just like we look back at the Skyrim horse armour DLC and say "how could we let this happen", the same will apply, in time, for online-only single player games.

In the mean time: lol bro you got internet at home lmao bro I mean bro.
Wow. Truer words. This is kinda the moment for stuff like this. All the folks excusing it really will be able to point to moments just like this.
 

NickFire

Member
Wow. Truer words. This is kinda the moment for stuff like this. All the folks excusing it really will be able to point to moments just like this.
I genuinely hope you are right about this being the moment. Of course, I literally hope that this moment leads to it being a widespread thing in all sports games. The reason I am taking a break from Madden is the ultimate team mode has felt stagnant to me. But if I could use my ultimate team in both Ultimate Team mode and single player franchise mode, well heck, I won't need any more games in the September to January time period any more. I want all my games to give me the option of upgrading my online character / team, car, etc. in offline modes. Now if the offline in GT does not allow that I will say they aren't living up to my dream on this, but I'm still getting it. I've waited since November 2013 for a numbered GT. I'm done waiting.
 
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NinjaBoiX

Member
Well and truly in the “non-issue” camp.

Pretty much everyone has stable internet these days, and how cares about the servers going down at some point. There’ll be GT9 out by then, you’re kidding yourself if you think you’ll still play an old iteration of such an iterative game as a racing sim.
 

BlackGauna

Member
What a shitty reason to force online for single player. What do you care if I cheat in my single player campaign?

I guess it is maybe because the cars you have in single player can be used for online races as well. But there are other ways to check if the stats of a car are valid or not without having to lock the campaign to online-only.

Edit: I don't get the people defending this by saying that almost everyone has stable internet nowadays. It doesn't matter. Single player doesn't need an online lock, so it shouldn't have one, especially for such a stupid reason.
 
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NinjaBoiX

Member
What a shitty reason to force online for single player. What do you care if I cheat in my single player campaign?

I guess it is maybe because the cars you have in single player can be used for online races as well. But there are other ways to check if the stats of a car are valid or not without having to lock the campaign to online-only.
I was going to post something similar, I guess they just figured putting such systems in place was a bit of a waste of resources.

You have to be online, nice and simple.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I genuinely hope you are right about this being the moment. Of course, I literally hope that this moment leads to it being a widespread thing in all sports games. The reason I am taking a break from Madden is the ultimate team mode has felt stagnant to me. But if I could use my ultimate team in both Ultimate Team mode and single player franchise mode, well heck, I won't need any more games in the September to January time period any more. I want all my games to give me the option of upgrading my online character / team, car, etc. in offline modes. Now if the offline in GT does not allow that I will say they aren't living up to my dream on this, but I'm still getting it. I've waited since November 2013 for a numbered GT. I'm done waiting.

But having the option of utilizing SP to MP doesn't mean we should accept always online connections. They can literally keep everything the same except have all the single player content playable offline and the only thing that would change would be the small chance you MAY encounter a handful of cheaters online. In an online ecosystem of hundreds of thousands. Report, block, and move on. Everyone wins.

Well and truly in the “non-issue” camp.

Pretty much everyone has stable internet these days, and how cares about the servers going down at some point. There’ll be GT9 out by then, you’re kidding yourself if you think you’ll still play an old iteration of such an iterative game as a racing sim.

Pretty much everyone does *not* have stable internet these days. Millions of people *still* go back to play older entries. The only one who is kidding themselves is you.
 

Miles708

Member
Agree to disagree. I'm fine with the price of always online for what I want to see become standard.

And what would that be?
To me it appears that you need to be always online to have the exact same feature every other single player game has, but with an additional caveat.
Even if this doesn't affect you directly, there's objectively no advantage for the user.
 

Melfice7

Member
Why is this 10 pages? online is a huge part of GT and theres no way to stop cheating but to have saves verified online. PD cant exactly ask nicely for people to not cheat and be done with it

"but i should be able to cheat on my own single player" sure you should, but so could legit cheaters that would carry that to online.
 

NickFire

Member
And what would that be?
To me it appears that you need to be always online to have the exact same feature every other single player game has, but with an additional caveat.
Even if this doesn't affect you directly, there's objectively no advantage for the user.
See above (in the chain that ended in my post that you responded to).
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Agree to disagree. I'm fine with the price of always online for what I want to see become standard.

So you want a common feature in the game and will gladly take less consumer rights to get it? You do realize you can have what you want and have offline mode, right? They aren't mutually exclusive.

Why is this 10 pages? online is a huge part of GT and theres no way to stop cheating but to have saves verified online. PD cant exactly ask nicely for people to not cheat and be done with it

"but i should be able to cheat on my own single player" sure you should, but so could legit cheaters that would carry that to online.

I would suggest you actually read those 10 pages and see the arguments instead of repeating the same tired excuse ad nauseum.
 

NickFire

Member
So you want a common feature in the game and will gladly take less consumer rights to get it? You do realize you can have what you want and have offline mode, right? They aren't mutually exclusive.
Consumer rights? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. You know what the policy is and can exercise your right not to buy it.
 

sn0man

Member
Consumer rights? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. You know what the policy is and can exercise your right not to buy it.
Agreed. It’s anti consumer plain and simple.

I have to assume Assetto Corsa, Drive, Project Cars, Need for speed, GRID or any other number of current or recent games have this figured out. A shame Sony’s own 2nd party studio also couldn’t figure it out.
 

Three

Member
How often did you run into cheaters during GT5 And 6? How about Sport? The Forza series? Burnout? Need for Speed? Project Cars? The very small chance you did, you think the trade off of having forced online for SP is acceptable?
Sport? Barely any but you pretend there's widespread cheating going on so who am I to tell you there isn't.

Look, I sympathise with you that you don't want an online game but I strongly disagee with you that there is no benefit to the way it's designed either. You mention Forza series this is what's happening on it

 
It is the year 2022. Everybody has internet and practically every electronic device and entertainment service requires internet. Who gives a shit?

“B-b-but 15 years from now I might not be able to play it!”

A. by that time there will be a new iteration of GT that does everything better, nobody aside from a few purists are going to want to go back and play it

B. They’ll probably patch it and remove the online check once it’s EOL

C. For fuck’s sake, it’s a $70 entertainment product that I’m going to play and enjoy until I get tired of it and play something else. It’s not some lifelong investment. I’ve spent more money for dinner and a movie.
how are you sure the future gt will be better? not guaranteed at all. they wont patch it out since they didnt with gt sport and drived club. if someone bought the game they should own it and play it whenever they want. enjoy not owning the game and wasting your money.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Consumer rights? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. You know what the policy is and can exercise your right not to buy it.

The fact that you can't understand basic consumer rights and willingly defend anti-consumer choices speaks volumes.

Sport? Barely any but you pretend there's widespread cheating going on so who am I to tell you there isn't.

Look, I sympathise with you that you don't want an online game but I strongly disagee with you that there is no benefit to the way it's designed either. You mention Forza series this is what's happening on it


Your continued strawman arguments and purposefully taking what I stated and misconstruing it is why I stopped discussing with you initially. Once again, you keep proving every point I made. Nice job.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
how are you sure the future gt will be better? not guaranteed at all. they wont patch it out since they didnt with gt sport and drived club. if someone bought the game they should own it and play it whenever they want. enjoy not owning the game and wasting your money.
I haven’t played GT3 since like 2005 and I don’t even have a system to play it on anymore. I still don’t feel like I’ve “wasted my money”.

If you go out for a steak dinner do you feel like you’ve wasted your money because you don’t get to re-eat it again 10 years from now?
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I haven’t played GT3 since like 2005 and I don’t even have a system to play it on anymore. I still don’t feel like I’ve “wasted my money”.

If you go out for a steak dinner do you feel like you’ve wasted your money because you don’t get to re-eat it again 10 years from now?

That is not at all the same thing. A more apt comparison would be "If you buy a film do you feel like you've wasted your money because you don't get to watch it again 10 years from now?" Which is an obvious choice - of course you would.
 

Three

Member
The fact that you can't understand basic consumer rights and willingly defend anti-consumer choices speaks volumes.



Your continued strawman arguments and purposefully taking what I stated and misconstruing it is why I stopped discussing with you initially. Once again, you keep proving every point I made. Nice job.
But every time you never say what the strawman is. You say cheaters will cheat anyway I say they can't cheat because they can't hack saves. You say how many times have you encountered them in other games I show you the save file hacks happening right now and I've seen. Everything is a strawman to you though simply because me being a cancerous dipshit don't agree with you on a subject. It's OK. We don't need to agree. I'm just proving the point that save file hacking happens. It's not some made up issue.
 
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Inviusx

Member
Sophy AI announced today. Another benefit of being connected. Imagine how that technology would improve your Singleplayer experience by having AI that isn't brain dead?
 

NickFire

Member
The fact that you can't understand basic consumer rights and willingly defend anti-consumer choices speaks volumes.
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
You reached peak absurdity in your quest to make everyone hate a massively anticipated game. But I like playing along with people who can’t grasp reality. So please, by all means, show me the consumer right that they will violate if they refuse to design a game exactly how you want them to. Also, please lay out the mental gymnastics that lead you to believe I am anti-consumer when I, as a consumer, want the system they are implementing.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
You reached peak absurdity in your quest to make everyone hate a massively anticipated game. But I like playing along with people who can’t grasp reality. So please, by all means, show me the consumer right that they will violate if they refuse to design a game exactly how you want them to. Also, please lay out the mental gymnastics that lead you to believe I am anti-consumer when I, as a consumer, want the system they are implementing.

You are just as bad as Three with the disingenuous posting, strawman arguments, and ignorant replies. No where am I on a "quest to make everyone hate a massively anticipated game." I have literally stated I am still going to buy the game and think it will be great. I am just rightfully calling out a dumbass design decision that serves no point and is detrimental to gaming as a whole. You do realize you can enjoy a game and think a particular design element is stupid as hell, right?

And yes, I will repeatedly refer to you as anti-consumer as you are actively championing a system that doesn't need to exist. As stated before you can still get the SP to MP cross over game design without requiring always online. They are not and have not ever been mutually exclusive. We have literally had these systems before, without being forced online at all times before. There is zero excuse as to why we can't have them again. The *very* rare chance of encountering a "cheater" is not a good enough excuse.
 

DrAspirino

Banned
if someone bought the game they should own it and play it whenever they want. enjoy not owning the game and wasting your money.
…and that’s where you’re wrong. When you “buy a game”, you’re not actually buying it, rather than the LICENSE to play it ON THE PUBLISHER’S terms.

The game may come in a physical medium, but the fact remains the same: you simply own a disc and a license that tells you that you can use that content in a certain way, and nothing else. You don’t get to do whatever you want, nor play how you want (eg, cheating). If a publisher states in the license that they have to monitor you via online if you want to play THEIR game, then you have to do so. After all, you’ve only purchased the rights to play the game, nothing more.

Since we live in a world where the internet is semper-present , the conditions have changed in favor of publishers, so they have more freedom than ever to impose whatever condition they deem “necessary” to play their games.

Oh, and expect an ever-growing an always-online single-player mode in new games, because the trend started some years ago and its here to stay.
 

sn0man

Member
We have literally had these systems before, without being forced online at all times before. There is zero excuse as to why we can't have them again. The *very* rare chance of encountering a "cheater" is not a good enough excuse.
Further games like Diablo in the past have had online saves for just such anti cheat in addition to offline. A single menu inside options to set the save localtion to local with a warning that the profile will no longer be able to play online multiplayer would have ended all the uproar.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Our Troops can just play GT6. Everything’s fine. “Legacy Hardware”

That’s the only thing I see as being a problem, but then again I have no ties to the military and I’m always connected to the internet at home. I also pre-purchased GT7. I really don’t have a problem with it.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Would love to know how many comments in here even come from people who play on Sony consoles or even considered to buy this in the first place.

And in comes the console warrior!

Further games like Diablo in the past have had online saves for just such anti cheat in addition to offline. A single menu inside options to set the save localtion to local with a warning that the profile will no longer be able to play online multiplayer would have ended all the uproar.

That is just one of literally hundreds of options they could choose from. All of them better than the idiocy on display here.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Can we just remember the usual stuff that happens with online only elements please. Things like

For day 1 to day 3 people won’t be able to get online because the servers will be getting hammered because so many people will be trying to get online

Random server side disconnects booting you from your single player experience maybe?

Server maintenance meaning you can’t play your single player game?

All this will happen. Fucks you off in Destiny etc. but that’s not a single player game for example.
 

Unk Adams

Banned
Can we just remember the usual stuff that happens with online only elements please. Things like

For day 1 to day 3 people won’t be able to get online because the servers will be getting hammered because so many people will be trying to get online

Random server side disconnects booting you from your single player experience maybe?

Server maintenance meaning you can’t play your single player game?

All this will happen. Fucks you off in Destiny etc. but that’s not a single player game for example.
Exactly. This was the problem with Ghost Recon: Breakpoint and I'm sure other online-only games. It's online-only even if you're playing single player and sometimes the server will randomly kick you off in the middle of a mission and you're forced to go through all of the menus again, play the mission over again and hope it doesn't keep happening. Not to mention the game will be completely worthless one day once the servers are eventually shut down, meaning these games will eventually be disposable like MAG.

Another argument I commonly hear is:

"Who still plays old games? You won't even care years down the line."

Plenty of us, actually. Retro games are now a big market, especially since many of us have become dissatisfied with modern gaming and have started going back to classics from generations ago.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Cant wait till I'm on lap 57 out of 60 on Nurburgring in single player mode (a lap takes 15 to 20 mins depending on car) and then the server boots me and I lose all that progress and have to start the race again.

People will absolutely fucking FUME when that happens to them (and it WILL happen) but its fine cos it stops some random who you'll never come across having a hundred million credits.
 
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Digity

Member
Cant wait till I'm on lap 57 out of 60 on Nurburgring in single player mode (a lap takes 15 to 20 mins depending on car) and then the server boots me and I lose all that progress and have to start the race again.

People will absolutely fucking FUME when that happens to them (and it WILL happen) but its fine cos it stops some random who you'll never come across having a hundred million credits.
It doesn’t take THAT long lol, even in the Mazda roadster touring car it can be done in about 7:30 but yes your point still stands.
 

Honey Bunny

Member
Just because we've survived playing racing games for decades without this feature, doesn't mean these cheaters aren't out there ready to *ruin* a race and possibly our entire lives at any moment. Thank you for protecting me from this invisible menace.
 
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